Go to FFI
 FAQFAQ   SearchSearch   MemberlistMemberlist   UsergroupsUsergroups   RegisterRegister 
 ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in 

Attention: Year 2009 is here Wishing a very Happy New Year to all members of FFI. Our new and improved site is ready. To visit main site, click at faithfreedom.org and to visit our new forum, click at forum09.faithfreedom.org and register again. Do not worry about your old forum posts and PM, everything is saved here till 31st December, 2008 for future references.
An Untold Love Story
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3 ... , 11, 12, 13  Next
 
This forum is locked: you cannot post, reply to, or edit topics.   This topic is locked: you cannot edit posts or make replies.    Faith Freedom International Forum Index -> Testimonies of Those Leaving Islam
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
Anna Doe



Joined: 25 Dec 2005
Posts: 2745
Location: Somewhere on the spheric kafir earth, vaccinating people against islam

PostPosted: Tue Nov 21, 2006 6:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dear TheMadTurk,

TheMadTurk wrote:
ı dont believe in hadiths or described life of muhammed totally.but still ı think ı am a muslim and the people you talk about are not muslims.it is a wonderful feeling to believe in allah.but ım not sure these people believe in allah.

When you write it is a wonderful thing to believe in allah, do you mean god in general or the allah of the koran? There is a lot of people who believe in god and don't believe in the koran or in any holy book for that matter.

But to believe in the islamic allah you have to believe in the allah of the koran and of mohamed. Because allah is alledgely the writer of the koran and he claimed he took mohamed as his last prophet, you have to believe that all the koran is true, therefore it is complete and clear like it claims and that whatever mohamed said and did, is halal with allah. But you don't, you cherry pick what you like, what the humanity, the decency and the modernity in you choose to like. And you say those who completely follow and accept the koran and the 1300 years old authentic ahadith and sunnah verses are not muslims. This is weird!

Do you want to tell me that only what please you is true and all the other is false? Does it means that islam was corrupted? Like the old and new testament? Why nobody during 1450 years of islam had ever claim that the authentic verses are false like you? Why nobody said before the westerner and modern muslim of today that it is not true that mohamed married a 6 year old girl and consumed the marriage when she was 8 years and 9 months? And the same goes to the long list of verses that you don't like. Why only now muslims are objecting the cruelity, the mysogyny, the slavery, the pedophily, the crimes of the koran, ahadiths and mohamed? Because you have espouse better morality, you have adopted western and modern philosophies, values, freedoms and rights.

You don't want to admit this, but you know islam is not for today, but you are so brainwashed that you cannot say it aloud and clearly, so you just try to modernize a 7th century cult. It is wonderful, but is it enough? Is it possible? Can you take out the slavery, the female genital mutilation, the cutting of limbs, the stoning to death, the pedophily and so on... Wouldn't it not easier to admit that islam is not the true religion if so much has to be deleted or changed?

How do you know 1300 millions will follow you? Have you some miracles to show them so they will believe you and stop believing the mullah who know the koran more than you? You acknowledge that you don't know islam, how can you interpret it better than those who had studied it? And how can you say you are the true muslim and call the scholars false muslims!

If you take what you want and throw to the garbage what you don't like, you are just invented a new religion. How do you want to call it?

But even if you take out the ahadith and sunnah, there is still much stuff in the koran that I, a peaceful, good and humane being find cruel, barbaric, inhumane, prejudicial and offensive. How you do to accept those verses?

When you said that the terrorists are not muslims but you are muslim, that they don't believe in allah but you do, that they don't follow the life of mohamed but you do, how do you know all of this if you don't know your religion? I read your koran and the sunnah and many ahadighs, i can tell you that they follow islam correctly, the way allah ordonned it, the way mohamed lived it, but you don't. You are more like me than like mohamed for sure! You dont' want to behead nobody, you don't want to marry a little girl, you don't want to sell your daughter, you don't want to beat your woman, you want to go swim with her at the beach, you are agianst stoning to death and so on... What you like in islam is found in other religions, and what you don't like in islam are the special things of islam, not found in other religions anymore.

Please tell me why those terrorists are not muslims.

Let's try something else, could you please tell me what you like in islam that doesn't exist in other religion? Could you proove the Turkish emperor Manuel II was wrong?

http://www.faithfreedom.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=29958

TheMadTurk wrote:
ı am completely with you about being scared from these people.it is also true that there is always a danger of being invaded by these evils.

But if there was no verses about slicing the throat of the infidels, there wouldn't be muslims slicing the throats of the infidels. If there was no verses about stoning the adulterers,there wouldn't be villagers in eastern Turkey stoning to death adulterers! If mohamed didnt' married Aisha when she was 6, there wouldn't be 60 years old Afgan marrying 11 year old girls.

There will always be a danger of being invaded by these evils as long as these people believe the koran are the words of allah and mohamed is the model for all mankind all places and all time.

Didnt' you see the videos of these former PLO terrorists? Didn't you hear them saying that when they stop believing that allah was god and that the koran is holy and mohamed the last prophet, they stop wanting to murder the infidels? Why? Why understanding that islam is not the true religion made them understand that a loving god cannot ask stoning and beheading? Why understanding that mohamed is not a prophet, made them reject that marrying a 6 years old is good? Why understanding that the koran is not holy, made them stop fearing the invented hell of mohamed?

Because more you study islam, more it is obvious that allah wants terrorism, pedophily, mysogyny, slavery, murder, lies and stealing... And therefore more religious you are in islam, more you speak like abu hamza.

Instead of being here defending what you never read, i will advice you to go to islamic sites or read here the posts of someone like talha777. Tell him that he is not a muslim, that apostates shouldn't be killed, that mohamed didnt' rape Aisha when she was 8years old... you will see how much he knows islam and how little you know.


TheMadTurk wrote:
and turkey is a rather complicated country.there are extremely mixed belief systems changing from arabic ones to shamanist kind islam.if we dont get democratic and try to live in european standards of life ,it is very easy to control unwanted fundementalist islam.more democratic we become, it is becoming more difficult to control fundementalists.but ı think we must take the risk of becoming more democratic country.

Should i presume the arabic system are the fundamentalist ones? What does it tell you? That those understanding the koran in the koran's language are more fundamental? May be because they understand better what is written there? Maybe because traduction are embellished version of the koran and therefore someone like you is protected to know the truth about the koran's cruelity and barbarism?

Please read your koran, go and ask someone who knows islam better if democracy is compatible with islam....

It is not, because democracy means the men and women's decisions and laws are above allah's. The very fact that you want democracy is unislamic. If you want islam, you have to get a theocratic system where the decision is allah through the koran, the shariah, the life of mohamed and authentic ahadiths.

I would like you to read this excellent article. But i am not sure you will so here are 2 quotes i found very insightfull:

http://members.aol.com/bestdemocracy/
Quote:
"There are
Islamic countries that are having elections, Pakistan.
Turkey. It's happening," Powell said in an interview
Thursday with al-Arabiya, a television station based in
Dubai. "Why cannot an Islamic form of government that
has as its basis the faith of Islam not be democratic?"
he asked...

Well, basically, because the one fundamental requirement of
democracy is the permanent and unequivocal authority of the
individual citizen: The essence of democracy is ALL power in
the hands of the people
(on in the hands of the people's
unquestioned representatives).

Quote:
Well, J.N. Wilford writes in the N.Y.Times: "the
philosopher Seneca, in the first century AD, may have
had an explanation for the Etruscan [static, ultimately
doomed] civilization's decline and fall: "This is the
difference between us Romans and the Etruscans," Seneca
wrote: "We believe that lightning is caused by clouds
colliding, whereas they believe that clouds collide in
order to create lightning. Since they attribute
everything to gods, they are led to believe not that
events have a meaning because they have happened, but
that they happen in order to express a meaning." ..."

"No one who believes he has achieved perfection is very
likely to seek further improvement."
This is as true of
states, nations, and other human institutions as it is of
individuals: While a humanistic and secular society may
observe a duty to adapt, theocracies will try to fight that
neverending change which ultimately IS the nature of the
human condition... with always predictably disastrous
consequences (believing as they do that all things of God
are eternally perfect, and that all things are of God).



TheMadTurk wrote:
in any case backward islam is causing us not to develop faster. however my politic and world view is rather different than you.and ı think these evils are used by other much stronger imperialist evils.

Know better your koran, your sunnah and your authentic ahadiths, and you will understand like us, why being more islamic means going backward, please read:
Quote:
The high correlation between Islam and backwardness and poverty, despite vast natural resources of the Muslim countries, is undeniable. So what is the reason?

Islamists would tell you its because of Western Imperialism and Colonialists. The theory does not explain why former non Muslim colonies in the far East have managed to overcome this and are today some of the most advanced and prosperous.

So either Islam causes poverty and backwardness or the poor gravitate to Islam. Lets examine this. If its poverty that causes people to gravitate to Islam then you would expect to see poor peoples first and then Islam taking hold. On the other hand if Islam is the cause you would expect to see the level of prosperity and scientific progress fall once Islam takes hold.

Certainly, the ancient countries of Persia, Egypt, Syria and Mesopotamia were far more advanced before Islam than after Islam. Today the Egyptians can't build an outhouse without Western technology and know how. All around the Mediterranean, Muslim countries are a pale shadow of their own pre Islamic days while their non Muslim neighbors have advanced. Even in the recent history of Iran and Lebanon, in a matter of only twenty five years or so, we see a considerable deterioration in standard of living and civility once the Islamists took hold.

I know it is not P.C to say so, but it is undeniable, Muslims only have their own religion to blame for the condition their in. Once you consider who Mohammed was, his brutishness and inhumanity, no other outcome would be expected either.


TheMadTurk wrote:
well,ım this kind of a muslim.my mother taught me this and my country taught me that islam belief is the main difference of us from others which makes us a nation.my ancestors fought to defend islam.and my nations unity and strength is the most important thing for me.

Well before islam you were also a nation. And I think much richer, educated, successful than you ever been after islam took over. Show me the architecture of Turkey: it was before islam. Show me the technology to irigate the lands: it was before islam and so on... (i am not that knowledgeable, but please check your own history, if there was no beaches and byzance, Turkey wouldn't have any tourism, so what did islam did to Turkey beside backwardness and villagers stoning to death adulterers, parents killing their daughters for honnor killing, and so on... Please i sound harsh, but YOU tell me, what did islam brought to Turkey that i am unaware of). You can love god, this has nothing to do with islam.

And i think you are wrong stating your ancestors fought to defend islam, i think your ancestors fought to force islam on others, like you did in Bulgaria, Romania, Greece, Cyprus and so on... Tell us why Turks went and kidnap children after raping the mothers and killing the fathers? Is this a lie? Why this happens everywhere islam was the religion? I would advice you to see what did mohamed in Arabia to understand that this was the way he conquered the islamic lands. Your ancestors were murdered, raped and kidnapped too like all the other people conquered by islam.

The mother or the mother of the mother of the mother.........of your mother was raped by those muslims hordes, while her husband and whole family was murdered in front of her. And you are bowing to her rapist, to those who have arabized you and stolen your culture and heritage and made you the poor country you are today, like they did to Iran, Egypt, Assyria, Carthage and so on.... Where ever islam swords passed... Not that Christians didn't do that for a while too. But while the Pope apologized, did you ever heard a Saudi official apologized to the way Turkey was islamized?

Please tell me i am wrong. Show me what islam brought to your country. Show me poetry, architecture, philosophy, sciences... anything. islam has put you down but you are angry i am telling you that.

Anyway, just read your koran. PLEASE. I did it and i am not a muslim, how can you don't read it!

Read the mistakes, the contradictions, the cruelty, the non-sense and so on... I am not lying, this book is not clear and complete and cannot be holy. It is boring and horrible, silly and incomprehensible.

You are the muslim, read your koran then defend it IF YOU CAN. Then tell me it is a perfect book, wise, intelligent, interresting, good and holy. And please, please tell me why sex with animals and sex with children is not forbiden in the koran. Nobody had answered me yet. Well many muslims told me sex with children is ok if you are married (could you accept this horrible answer? No of course, so why allah didn't forbid it in the koran, he forbade it inthe bible...) and that sex with animals is forbiden in the ahadith. Well how come allah forgot to mention it in his complete koran!!!?

_________________
Vaccinate yourself against islam: read the koran!
Orenda: islam orders women to hide themselves so rapists won't be tempted to harass them, it is as stupid as to ask colored people to hide themselves so racists won't be tempted to harass them
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
yeezevee



Joined: 17 Feb 2004
Posts: 17109

PostPosted: Tue Nov 21, 2006 1:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
TMT says: ı dont believe in hadiths or described life of muhammed totally.but still ı think ı am a muslim and the people you talk about are not muslims.it is a wonderful feeling to believe in allah.but ım not sure these people believe in allah.

fascinating response from TMT., I wonder if one doesn't beleive in the life of Mr. Mohammad, Hadith/Sunnah then, why to beleive that book "Q'uran is word of Allah/GoD"??
Quote:
it is a wonderful feeling to believe in allah.

There must be some equivalent word in Turkish language for that Arabic word "Allah"., I wonder what it is? ..May be TURKS LOST THAT "WORD" and they don't know and don't have any NOW except Arabic word "Allah"..

Let me add to that the folowing from a link

Quote:
Turkey's geographical location has made it the land bridge between Europe and Asia for many thousands of years; the resultant ethnic mix has produced blond-haired, blue-eyed Turks, red-haired green-eyed Turks, brown-haired hazel-eyed Turks, and black-haired brown-eyed Turks. What makes a Turk a Turk is his choice of Turkish as his primary language.

In size, Turkey is about 800,000 square kilometers, or 10% larger than Texas. 20.2 million hectares of land in Turkey is covered by forest. In 1961, Turkey consisted of 67 provinces, or "states"; by 1997, it had 80 provinces with the increase gained not by adding land but by subdividing it.

Since 1924, Turkey has been a secular nation, with religion separate from government. The Republic of Turkey was founded on October 29, 1923, by Mustafa Kemal Ataturk, who led the Turkish troops to victory over the Allies following World War I. He is still (1997) Turkey’s national hero.

there is more to that at http://socialscience.tyler.cc.tx.us/mkho/fulbright/1998/turkey/turkey.htm
And some times I wonder what would have happened to "TURKEY if there was NO "Mustafa Kemal Ataturk", Sure it would have been "Islamic Internal Struggle for Political Power" with that it would have been another Pkaisthan/Afghanisthan...

yeezevee
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
TheMadTurk



Joined: 20 Dec 2005
Posts: 1265
Location: iSTANBUL

PostPosted: Tue Nov 21, 2006 4:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dear Anna,

Every year ı fasten for 30 days.ı never drink alcohol during this period.and my body cleans itself.when ı eat at the evining after staying hungry so long,ı feel very happy and atmosphere is very islamic.

every friday ı go to praying in mosque together with all kinds of people,kurd,turk,poor, rich .military and mosque are the only places we can all get together.and ı feel mentally very relaxed.my heart fulls with goodness and humanity.at least that day ı try not to cheat or do harm to nobody.imam of the mosque always preaches peaceful things.

its true that ı have no knowledge about hadiths or the life of our prophet.but as many turks do, ı only consider kuran as the guidelines.ı also dont know kuran very much either.but my wife knows it.and ı asked her if in islam we can merry children,make sex with animals ,stoning,cheat,honour killings ,hate nonbelievers or kill people who leave islam.she says all of these are christian popaganda lies.there is nothing like this.

ı m sure you dont know who yunus emre or mevlana or whirling dervishes or anatolian sufis or alevis are.these are the signs of our own turkish islam.

ı dont want my culture be invaded by hamburgers,kentucky fried chickens,western music and dances,movies,bars,cafes,discos,
ı dont want my culture be invaded by arabic culture which strongly includes their desire of making us to live in 1400 years agos arabic traditions.

ı want to live like a turk.it is a mixture of centrel asia,anatolia and mediterrenian culture.not loosing nothing of this.

ı see needless to talk about your islam.that is something different.that is equivalent to terrorizm.

ı have been to many rural areas in anatolia.in most places nothing about their belief of islam disturbed me.only in south eastern area there is a rather big problem of being extreme fundementalizm.

if as you claim islam brings backwardness than why in 95% of turkey no honour killings no child merriage happening.are we 95% not muslims?

ı thing your attempt to destroy 1,300 millions belief system is just a dream.if you start cooparating with my kinds as good and respected muslims and seperate them as barbaric animals, you will have a better chance to protect your daughter.

İN TURKEY,I WİLL ALWAYS WANT TO HEAR EZAN FROM OUR MAGNİFİCİANT MOSQUES.--though ı want it to hear it in turkish instead of arabic.

thanks for you kind dialog with me.ı do feel sympathy to you.
god bless you.
best regards,

TMT
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Anna Doe



Joined: 25 Dec 2005
Posts: 2745
Location: Somewhere on the spheric kafir earth, vaccinating people against islam

PostPosted: Wed Nov 22, 2006 6:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

First, I am also enjoying our discussion. I don't think you are trying to sell me islam, but i am willing to hear you, and I hope you don't feel pressure from me to leave islam, I just want you to check what we say in your own scriptures to see we are not lying, unfortunately.

Of course I know you are a good man and I don't think you want to kill my husband, rape me and enslave my children.

Because you are not a real muslim.

You have humanized, moderated and modernized islam and made up a new religion.

But could you assure me that if you get more religious you won't do the exact things written in the koran? No you can't. Right now you don't believe the koran are the words of god, if you were you would be much afraid not to apply it to the letter. When you will really believe what is the shahada, you will have to accept that the authentic ahadiths about mohamed are what they are: the life muslims know mohamed lived and therefore that a muslim has to go to hajj, pray 5 times, give the zakat.

This you agree, but then if you agree for that, you have to agree that in the same authentic ahadiths from the same sources, you learn that mohamed married a 6 year old child, his 3rd wife Aisha or that he ordonned the beheading of whole villages and took for himself women "right hand possession" allowed in the koran, and raped them the same day he murdered in front of her eyes the whole family. Raihana was one of those poor soul, of course she killed him. Do you know why a sex slave shouldn't kill her oppressive owner?

How can you assure me that those outside eastern Turkey, won't turn like eastern Turkey when they will get more religious? I hope you promise yourself that if this happens in your life-time, you will remember my warnings and draw the conclusion that islam cannot be good: more a man believe in islam, more he is a terrorist, because allah asked to murder the infidels, because allah asked to cut the feet and hands of the thief, because mohamed asked to stone the adulterers, because mohamed maried a 6 year old child, because mohamed witnessed some 800 beheadings, included teenagers with one pubic hair without stopping the carnage with his legendary mercyfullness.

You cannot. It is why both of us fear those muslims knowing the fundamentals of islam. Because the fundamentals of islam don't suit our humanity, decency and modern morals, values, freedoms and rights we both fear them. The only difference between us is that you think you are a muslim, so you apologize for them and say they are mistaken and don't understand well allah and mohamed and islam. While I know they understand them well and you are the one who don't. I have read islamic scriptures and I know they are true muslims, unlike you. Those people follow allah, mohamed, the koran, the sunnah and the ahadiths completely, unlike you.

Check what is happening to people converting to islam. 3/4th leave when they learn what is really islam, the other join the fundamentalists, many become like your eastern Turkish, some even become terrorists and a few became suicide bombers. Why? Because they do what mohamed and allah tell them to do in the islamic scriptures. You don't because you don't want to read your scriptures, may be you are afraid to see we are right. I hope that if you did, you will understand islam is a lie and leave and not fear the mohamedan hell and become fundamentalist too...

Your parents are like you, good people, they were lied to, and your ancestors too, it is like that everywhere, muslims just don't know what is written in their scriptures. Other religious people too, most of the time, but I don't care because it is not written in their scriptures that they have to kill me. It is written in your scriptures. This is one of the reason why i am here. The other one is mariage to underage children is permitted in the koran and in the sharia and mohamed did it. The last reason is that apostate have to be killed, this is a characteristic of a cult too. Without these 3 islam is not that different than other religions.

i know you will realize islam is not as good as you think some day, or by reading your scriptures or by seeing Turkey becomes more islamic. But i hope it won't be too late. How many more examples of islamic countries do you need to understand that where islam is the religion, all the things you cherish in your life are taken away?


TheMadTurk wrote:
Dear Anna,

Every year ı fasten for 30 days.ı never drink alcohol during this period.and my body cleans itself.when ı eat at the evining after staying hungry so long,ı feel very happy and atmosphere is very islamic.

Well islam is not the only religion that prohibits alcohol, actually you can be a Christian or a atheist and don't drink alcohol as well. I didn't drink alcohol at all for the last 5 years because of pregnancies and breastfeedings and before I never drink that much alcolhol, I did the calculation once for another muslim in FFI and if I remember i drank a average of half a glass of wine every month since i am 19, I am wondering if it is not much less than the average muslim.

You don't have to be a muslim to be happy either, or to feel spiritual and of course to not steal, lie, kill, cheat and so on... I don't drink, steal and so on...

Does it make me a muslim? No! muslims have to believe allah is god and the only one and is the allah explained in the koran PLUS muslims have to believe the koran are the words of god, complete and clear, for all mankind, all time and all places, with no mistake, no contradiction and no non-sense PLUS muslims have to believe mohamed is the last prophet and a model for all mankind, all time and all places so they have to know how he lived his life so they can do the same, they have to learn who he was and what he did and what he say by reading the sunnah and ahadith.

How much of a muslim are you? A 10%? 5%? You dont' know your koran and you don't take mohamed as a model, actually you don't want to if i understand you well, as you are proud to be a modern educated open-minded 21 century man. Well, not that i want you to follow him of course, I will be very sad if you decide that he is indeed a model to follow! I just want you to understand that if you don't think he is a model to follow (by reading what islamic scholars for 1450 years have made authentic says and doings of mohamed, like ordonning and witnesses of 800 beheadings, including teens with one pubic hair, like raping sex slaves or marrying a 6 years old child but there is unfortunately much more, like if that wasn't enough to be disgusted about this man) you shouldn't want to be muslim.

Your mum doesn't know the truth about islam and about mohamed of course, as your wife too, actually most of the muslims don't know! they are lied too! Specially in countries who are modern and westernized and know these things are bad. And in other countries the koran and the sunnah and ahadiths are told in Arabic, nobody understand! this is why islam is still alive! Because the truth has been hidden. Please read your scriptures if you don't believe me! Here are a few horrors from islam, posted in the muslim student association site:

http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/fundamentals/hadithsunnah/muslim/008.smt.html#008.3308
Quote:
Chapter 10: IT IS PERMISSIBLE FOR THE FATHER TO GIVE THE HAND OF HIS DAUGHTER IN MARRIAGE EVEN WHEN SHE IS NOT FULLY GROWN UP
Book 008, Number 3310:
'A'isha (Allah be pleased with her) reported: Allah's Apostle (may peace be upon him) married me when I was six years old, and I was admitted to his house when I was nine years old.

http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/quran/047.qmt.html#047.004 (muslim student association site)[/color]
Quote:
047.004
YUSUFALI: Therefore, when ye meet the Unbelievers (in fight), smite at their necks; At length, when ye have thoroughly subdued them, bind a bond firmly (on them): thereafter (is the time for) either generosity or ransom: Until the war lays down its burdens. Thus (are ye commanded): but if it had been Allah's Will, He could certainly have exacted retribution from them (Himself); but (He lets you fight) in order to test you, some with others. But those who are slain in the Way of Allah,- He will never let their deeds be lost.

http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/fundamentals/hadithsunnah/abudawud/038.sat.html#038.4390 (muslim student association site)
Quote:
Book 38, Number 4390:
Narrated Atiyyah al-Qurazi:
I was among the captives of Banu Qurayzah. They (the Companions) examined us, and those who had begun to grow hair (pubes) were killed, and those who had not were not killed. I was among those who had not grown hair.

http://www.terrorists-suck.org/why_suck/ok_to_kill_women_children.html

TheMadTurk wrote:
every friday ı go to praying in mosque together with all kinds of people,kurd,turk,poor, rich .military and mosque are the only places we can all get together.and ı feel mentally very relaxed.my heart fulls with goodness and humanity.at least that day ı try not to cheat or do harm to nobody.imam of the mosque always preaches peaceful things.

Christians at the church feel the same way, it is not connected with islam. I feel like that in a library.

So you think without islam you would be cheating or harming people all the days of the week? May be without islam you would be good all the days of the week...


TheMadTurk wrote:
its true that ı have no knowledge about hadiths or the life of our prophet.but as many turks do, ı only consider kuran as the guidelines.ı also dont know kuran very much either.

Well if the true islam will rule in Europe, do you think you will be let alone to follow only guidelines? Do you understand you are quite protected by Europe and you have adopted many of his institutions so you are able to only follow guidelines. Lebanon is already getting islamized, how long will it take for eastern Turkey to take over Turkey? Then don't worry, you will have to know the koran very much, or off with your feet, hands, head...

TheMadTurk wrote:
but my wife knows it.and ı asked her if in islam we can merry children,make sex with animals ,stoning,cheat,honour killings ,hate nonbelievers or kill people who leave islam.she says all of these are christian popaganda lies.there is nothing like this.

Well show me the koranic verse you cannot have sex with children and the koranic verse you cannot have sex with animals and I convert. There are no such verse. How come? There is a biblical interdiction of bestiality but not in the koran. Did allah change his mind or forgot? Is the koran corrupted? The koran is not complete! I brought you verses about mohamed consuming his "marriage" with aisha when she was 9 lunar years. How come islam forbids it if the prophet of islam married aisha when she was 6 year old? Bring your wife here, may be you will win $50 000 and close this site
http://www.faithfreedom.org/challenge.htm
http://www.faithfreedom.org/Articles/sina/ayesha.htm
http://www.faithfreedom.org/Articles/sina/ayesha_moraleval.htm
http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/fundamentals/hadithsunnah/abudawud/038.sat.html#038.4396 (site created by the muslim student association of California) [/color]
Quote:
Book 38, Number 4397:
Narrated Fadalah ibn Ubayd:
A thief was brought to the Apostle of Allah (peace_be_upon_him) and his hand was cut off. Thereafter he commanded for it, and it was hung on his neck.

http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/fundamentals/hadithsunnah/muslim/017.smt.html#017.4194 (muslim student association)
Quote:
Chapter 4: STONING OF A MARRIED ADULTERER
Book 017, Number 4194:
'Abdullah b. 'Abbas reported that 'Umar b. Khattab sat on the pulpit of Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) and said: Verily Allah sent Muhammad (may peace be upon him) with truth and He sent down the Book upon him, and the verse of stoning was included in what was sent down to him. We recited it, retained it in our memory and understood it. Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) awarded the punishment of stoning to death (to the married adulterer and adulteress) and, after him, we also awarded the punishment of stoning, I am afraid that with the lapse of time, the people (may forget it) and may say: We do not find the punishment of stoning in the Book of Allah, and thus go astray by abandoning this duty prescribed by Allah. Stoning is a duty laid down in Allah's Book for married men and women who commit adultery when proof is established, or it there is pregnancy, or a confession.

Quote:
Tabari IX:113 “Allah permits you to shut them in separate rooms and to beat them, but not severely. If they abstain, they have the right to food and clothing. Treat women well for they are like domestic animals and they possess nothing themselves. Allah has made the enjoyment of their bodies lawful in his Qur’an.”

So it seems your wife doesn't know islam either. She was lied to of course, no sane woman will follow islam if she knew what is written about women there. She was taught a embellish version of islam, the version taught to muslim women and converts.
She is the one victim of islam propaganda. I am not Christian by the way.


TheMadTurk wrote:
ı m sure you dont know who yunus emre or mevlana or whirling dervishes or anatolian sufis or alevis are.these are the signs of our own turkish islam.

Of course I know. These philosophies were tries by the Turks to make islam more humane and good. But like Sufism, they are hiding the truth about islam and like sufism, their roots can be found easier in other religions than in islam.
http://islamreview.org/AnwarShaikh/index.html
Quote:
Islam is the most violent and intolerant faith that has ever been presented to mankind. Those, who hold this view usually quote, The Disputer, LVIII: 20, which declares that non-Muslims are Satan's party but the Muslims are God's party. Thus, it is the most sacred duty of the Muslims to annihilate the non-Muslims or at least reduce them to the status of tributaries.
On the contrary, the enlightened Muslims protest against this non-Muslim attitude: they quote Sufism to prove that Islam is an international ambassador of love. Of course, there is some truth in it, but who deserves the credit - Islam or Hinduism?

Basing his judgement on the historical and scriptural evidence, Anwar Shaikh concludes that what is called Sufism or Tasawwuf, collides with the basic principles of Islam, but it does conform to the Vedic doctrines. Therefore, Sufism, broadly speaking, is an offshoot of Hindutva. Then, why is it considered an extension of Islam? It is a pity that the people of India have forgotten all about their ancestral glory.


TheMadTurk wrote:
ı dont want my culture be invaded by hamburgers,kentucky fried chickens,western music and dances,movies,bars,cafes,discos,
ı dont want my culture be invaded by arabic culture which strongly includes their desire of making us to live in 1400 years agos arabic traditions.

I understand what you mean, but i don't understand your choice. But nobody never forced me to eat a mac donald and go to a movie, while I am sure many muslims are foced to pray and do other islamic stuff.

TheMadTurk wrote:
İN TURKEY,I WİLL ALWAYS WANT TO HEAR EZAN FROM OUR MAGNİFİCİANT MOSQUES.--though ı want it to hear it in turkish instead of arabic.

Your mosques were magnificiant CHURCHES!
http://www.faithfreedom.org/forum/viewtopic.php?p=570680#570680


TheMadTurk wrote:
thanks for you kind dialog with me.ı do feel sympathy to you. god bless you. best regards,TMT

Thank you me too.
_________________
Vaccinate yourself against islam: read the koran!
Orenda: islam orders women to hide themselves so rapists won't be tempted to harass them, it is as stupid as to ask colored people to hide themselves so racists won't be tempted to harass them
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
TheMadTurk



Joined: 20 Dec 2005
Posts: 1265
Location: iSTANBUL

PostPosted: Wed Nov 22, 2006 9:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
You have humanized, moderated and modernized islam and made up a new religion.


ok.no problem.

Quote:
But could you assure me that if you get more religious you won't do the exact things written in the koran? No you can't.


this is no good argument.of course there is a possibility for every human to change in time in good or bad ways.but you cant disregard our position of today because of that possibility.



Quote:
How can you assure me that those outside eastern Turkey, won't turn like eastern Turkey when they will get more religious?


this is possible too.kurds are not only a threat by national means ,bigger threat is their understanding of islam.hizbullah is working very actively there. and we have to be always alert and in control.but again this is no good argument.ım not going to change my belief because of these illeterate maniacs.





Quote:
The only difference between us is that you think you are a muslim, so you apologize for them and say they are mistaken and don't understand


ı dont apoligise for them.ı think they are retarted maniacs.




Quote:
Your parents are like you, good people, they were lied to, and your ancestors too, it is like that everywhere, muslims just don't know what is written in their scriptures. Other religious people too, most of the time, but I don't care because it is not written in their scriptures that they have to kill me. It is written in your scriptures. This is one of the reason why i am here. The other one is mariage to underage children is permitted in the koran and in the sharia and mohamed did it. The last reason is that apostate have to be killed, this is a characteristic of a cult too. Without these 3 islam is not that different than other religions.



here where we differ with you mainly.
a. kuran dont tell us to kill nonmuslims of today.it was describing peoples struggles to spread islam in the beginning years.and telling them to fight back against the ones resisting.if you think muslims will fight for ever like this, this is nonsense.today there is technology.every one can reach kuran and decide himself to believe or not to believe. ı wouldnt like to see all world islam.this would be boring.we need different colours,tastes.

b.probably life expectancy was 30-35 years 1400 years ago.and merrying with girls who just had menstrual was probably normal in those days.we have to use our brains.today life expectancy increased by two times at least.we must not read kuran literally.we need to understand what is the real intentions.

c.my answer is the same like a.

Quote:
i know you will realize islam is not as good as you think some day, or by reading your scriptures or by seeing Turkey becomes more islamic. But i hope it won't be too late. How many more examples of islamic countries do you need to understand that where islam is the religion, all the things you cherish in your life are taken away? [/color]


ı hope we never become islamic country.and ı can die defending it.

Quote:
Every year ı fasten for 30 days.ı never drink alcohol during this period.and my body cleans itself.when ı eat at the evining after staying hungry so long,ı feel very happy and atmosphere is very islamic.

Well islam is not the only religion that prohibits alcohol, actually you can be a Christian or a atheist and don't drink alcohol as well. I didn't drink alcohol at all for the last 5 years because of pregnancies and breastfeedings and before I never drink that much alcolhol, I did the calculation once for another muslim in FFI and if I remember i drank a average of half a glass of wine every month since i am 19, I am wondering if it is not much less than the average muslim. [/quote]


ı cant live without drinking alcohol.ı need to drink to endure my countries stupidities.ı need to drink to socialize and laugh,ı need to dring when ı watch football match,ı need to drink before and after sex.but commiting this sin dont make me less muslim.
Quote:


You don't have to be a muslim to be happy either, or to feel spiritual and of course to not steal, lie, kill, cheat and so on... I don't drink, steal and so on...


yes.but islam--god love-- helps me to stay away from being bad.

Quote:
Does it make me a muslim? No! muslims have to believe allah is god and the only one and is the allah explained in the koran PLUS muslims have to believe the koran are the words of god, complete and clear, for all mankind, all time and all places, with no mistake, no contradiction and no non-sense PLUS muslims have to believe mohamed is the last prophet and a model for all mankind, all time and all places so they have to know how he lived his life so they can do the same, they have to learn who he was and what he did and what he say by reading the sunnah and ahadith.


prophet muhammed cant be a model by his life style for ever.

Quote:
How much of a muslim are you? A 10%? 5%?


ım a 100% muslim.you see you cant understand it.ı have read in the turkish newspaper and ı cant send you the source.but it said in turkey people who regularly go to friday prayings was twice of iran.we are more devout muslims than iranians.
ım also not a lawyer.ı deal with foreigners coming to visit turkey.ı have met many iranians .ı dont think we are so much different from each other.the main difference is that we turks are more used to have contact with christians that although we are strongly bounded to our religon we are able to tolarate and understand them more.in ramadan ı can fasten while a romanian drinks infront of me.so what.is this so difficult to accept.
ı also dont understand why iranians dont revolt against these molla fashists who think they know islam better than every body.iranians must be courages enough taking the risk of dying to fight against these fachists.something is wrong there.
if another country , iran can become secular and democratic like turkey imperialist,white,christian ,west will have less arguments against muslims.so my heart is together with iranian brothers.common iran...do something.





Quote:
[color=indigo]Christians at the church feel the same way, it is not connected with islam. I feel like that in a library.


a christian can feel the same thing in the church.but you cant, in the library.you have no god belief.



Quote:
Lebanon is already getting islamized, how long will it take for eastern Turkey to take over Turkey? Then don't worry, you will have to know the koran very much, or off with your feet, hands, head...


than dont help them to get our countries.cooparate with us.dont leave us alone and loose against the satans.the political climate in the world is working for the satans.

Quote:
Bring your wife here,


my wife hates you people.she is far less tolarant than me.she is also angry to me for writing here.the only backward mentality ı see in her is her strong opposition for muslim women merrying to christian man.she also have some little superstiotious beliefs.but ı dont.


Quote:
Of course I know. These philosophies were tries by the Turks to make islam more humane and good. But like Sufism, they are hiding the truth about islam and like sufism, their roots can be found easier in other religions than in islam.


dont try to regard everything inferior about our culture.ı observe almost all foreigners deeply effected and respecting when they meet with these highly humamne islamic understandings.



Quote:
TheMadTurk wrote:
ı dont want my culture be invaded by hamburgers,kentucky fried chickens,western music and dances,movies,bars,cafes,discos,
ı dont want my culture be invaded by arabic culture which strongly includes their desire of making us to live in 1400 years agos arabic traditions.

I understand what you mean, but i don't understand your choice. But nobody never forced me to eat a mac donald and go to a movie, while I am sure many muslims are foced to pray and do other islamic stuff.


well even if ı object it and try to be a nationalist ,world is globilising anyway.people will all be living in one country after another century.these are the last struggles of human kind trying to impose its culture on others.

Quote:
TheMadTurk wrote:
İN TURKEY,I WİLL ALWAYS WANT TO HEAR EZAN FROM OUR MAGNİFİCİANT MOSQUES.--though ı want it to hear it in turkish instead of arabic.

[color=indigo]Your mosques were magnificiant CHURCHES!


oh common now.this is the first time you really hurt me.


TMT
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
bukitdago



Joined: 03 Jun 2004
Posts: 4106

PostPosted: Mon Nov 27, 2006 2:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

TheMadTurk wrote:

Quote:
TheMadTurk wrote:
İN TURKEY,I WİLL ALWAYS WANT TO HEAR EZAN FROM OUR MAGNİFİCİANT MOSQUES.--though ı want it to hear it in turkish instead of arabic.

[color=indigo]Your mosques were magnificiant CHURCHES!


oh common now.this is the first time you really hurt me.

TMT


Its true. I know Turks always denied their pass dark history.
The Turks not only took over the Byzantine Church they also looted that is precious and destroyed and burned many valuable Christians books/literature's form the church.


Hagia Sophia
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Jump to: navigation, search
For other uses, see Hagia Sophia (disambiguation).

Hagia Sophia
Hagia Sophia, i.e. (the Church of) Holy Wisdom, now known as the Ayasofya Museum, is a former Eastern Orthodox church converted to a mosque in 1453 by the Turks, and converted into a museum in 1935. It is located in the Turkish city of Istanbul. It is universally acknowledged as one of the greatest buildings of the world and sometimes considered the Eighth Wonder of the World. Its conquest by the Ottomans at the fall of Constantinople is considered one of the great tragedies of Christianity by the Greek Orthodox faithful.

For your knowledge. The genocide of Christians Armenian, Assyrian and other Balkan people by Muslim Turks headed by your last Caliphate, is true. They were all recorded.
The majority victims were Armenian Christians 1.5 million. If you add with other Christians victims (Assyrian and other Balkan ethnic) it come to more the 2 million.



http://armen.a.free.fr/genocide.htm

Germany have admitted their dark history but why can't Turkey do the same, if she want to be part of European Union?
_________________
1.Muslims mind are overloaded with conspiracies, because they can not handle the Truth.
2.Real freedom is not being a slave of freedom itself.
3. A tramp will not be able to smell his own BO.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
SamarMuslima



Joined: 03 Mar 2008
Posts: 1

PostPosted: Mon Mar 03, 2008 7:12 am    Post subject: RE: Untold Love Story Reply with quote

Dear Precious Woman,

Your story and that of your sister is very touching and it truly a sad story of how you, your sister and islam have been abused. Islam and the words of god are often used by different cultures to justify their own actions...

Islam is not a religion of violence, god does not teach that. The Quran not these people who claim to be the know it all is a muslim is way to get knowledge... He is all merciful and forgiving... here are a few quotes and may god guide you in the right way!

4:4. You shall give the women their due dowries, equitably. If they willingly forfeit anything, then you may accept it; it is rightfully yours.

2:235. You commit no sin by announcing your engagement to the women, or keeping it secret. GOD knows that you will think about them. Do not meet them secretly, unless you have something righteous to discuss. Do not consummate the marriage until their interim is fulfilled. You should know that GOD knows your innermost thoughts, and observe Him. You should know that GOD is Forgiver, Clement

6:54. When those who believe in our revelations come to you, you shall say, "Salamun `Alaykum (Peace be upon you). Your Lord has decreed that mercy is His attribute. Thus, anyone among you who commits a transgression out of ignorance, and repents thereafter and reforms, then He is Forgiving, Most Merciful."

2:214. Do you expect to enter Paradise without being tested like those before you? They were tested with hardship and adversity, and were shaken up, until the messenger and those who believed with him said, "Where is GOD's victory?" GOD's victory is near.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
yeezevee



Joined: 17 Feb 2004
Posts: 17109

PostPosted: Mon Mar 03, 2008 11:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
SamarMuslima: Islam is not a religion of violence, god does not teach that.
God may not teach violence but what had God has to do with Muhammad and his Islam dear SamarMuslima? I don't think you have read The Quran, read about Prophet of Islam, his preachings and Early islamic History during the Prophet's time and in the times of Salaf , Ṣaḥāba, Tābi‘īn and in the tislam in the time of Tāba‘ at-Tābi‘īn.. For that you have to read the HISTORY OF ISLAM. Please start with this thread
http://www.faithfreedom.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=15311

and enquire year by year hsitory of Islam during those times..

Quote:
here are a few quotes and may god guide you in the right way!
You have to read complete book not few verses here and there dear SamarMuslima..

And welcome to FFI..

with best regards
yeezevee
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
bukitdago



Joined: 03 Jun 2004
Posts: 4106

PostPosted: Mon Mar 03, 2008 8:56 pm    Post subject: Re: RE: Untold Love Story Reply with quote

SamarMuslima wrote:
Dear Precious Woman,

Your story and that of your sister is very touching and it truly a sad story of how you, your sister and islam have been abused. Islam and the words of god are often used by different cultures to justify their own actions...

Islam is not a religion of violence ??????????, god does not teach that. The Quran not these people who claim to be the know it all is a muslim is way to get knowledge... He is all merciful and forgiving... here are a few quotes and may god guide you in the right way!

4:4. You shall give the women their due dowries, equitably. If they willingly forfeit anything, then you may accept it; it is rightfully yours.

2:235. You commit no sin by announcing your engagement to the women, or keeping it secret. GOD knows that you will think about them. Do not meet them secretly, unless you have something righteous to discuss. Do not consummate the marriage until their interim is fulfilled. You should know that GOD knows your innermost thoughts, and observe Him. You should know that GOD is Forgiver, Clement

6:54. When those who believe in our revelations come to you, you shall say, "Salamun `Alaykum (Peace be upon you). Your Lord has decreed that mercy is His attribute. Thus, anyone among you who commits a transgression out of ignorance, and repents thereafter and reforms, then He is Forgiving, Most Merciful."

2:214. Do you expect to enter Paradise without being tested like those before you? They were tested with hardship and adversity, and were shaken up, until the messenger and those who believed with him said, "Where is GOD's victory?" GOD's victory is near.


You are deceiving yourself. Non Muslims know and history prove that,
ISLAM IS A VIOLENT RELIGION AND SPREAD WITH VIOLENT ACT.
Only a blind and brainwashed Muslims think otherwise.

Those verses you quoted are rules for within Muslims only and not for kafir. These verses were given when Muhammad was still struggling to promote Islam. But when he got full power Allah or Muhammad verses become violent.

Here is the prove how Allah>Muhammad regards women;

Women are the majority in hell
Bukhari Volume 1, Book 2, Number 28:
Narrated Ibn 'Abbas:
The Prophet said: "I was shown the Hell- fire and that the majority of its dwellers were women who were ungrateful.


Woman deficiency
Bukhari Volume 3, Book 48, Number 826:
Narrated Abu Said Al-Khudri:
The Prophet said, "Isn't the witness of a woman equal to half of that of a man?" The women said, "Yes." He said, "This is because of the deficiency of a woman's mind."


Treat woman equal to a dog and a donkey
Bukhari Volume 1, Book 9, Number 498:
Narrated ' Aisha:
It is not good that you people have made us (women) equal to dogs and donkeys. No doubt I saw Allah's Apostle praying while I used to lie between him and the Qibla and when he wanted to prostrate, he pushed my legs and I withdrew them.

BukhariVolume 1, Book 9, Number 490:
Narrated ' Aisha:
The things which annul the prayers were mentioned before me. They said, "Prayer is annulled by a dog, a donkey and a woman (if they pass in front of the praying people)." I said, "You have made us (i.e. women) dogs. I saw the Prophet praying while I used to lie in my bed between him and the Qibla. Whenever I was in need of something, I would slip away. for I disliked to face him."


Allah is not God and Muhammad is a prophet of doom.!!
_________________
1.Muslims mind are overloaded with conspiracies, because they can not handle the Truth.
2.Real freedom is not being a slave of freedom itself.
3. A tramp will not be able to smell his own BO.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
MsWesterner



Joined: 11 Nov 2006
Posts: 11888

PostPosted: Wed Mar 05, 2008 4:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

samar.....WHY would you use the word merciful in describing your imaginary allah????? you have been TOLD that he/she is merciful, but there is overwhelming proof and evidence that there is no such merciful being......and absolutely zilch evidence that there is even a being you call allah!!!

there is nothing more cruel, violent, or depraved about what this so called allah does with his/her will........and although you are also taught he/she guarantees sustenance, there are muslims whom have to beg for aid and food from the "infidels" rather than die - and muslim babies die of painful starvation and your allah is no where to be found let alone giving this sustenance.

what is merciful about:
- domestic abuse
- oppression
- pedophilia and children denied childhood and human rights
- beheadings
- stonings
- children beaten for not praying properly
- repression and segregation
- muslim schoolgirls sent back into a burning building to die (murdered) because they had "faces"
- a tsunami that killed over 200,000 and left hundreds of thousands grieving, injured, homeless and hungry
- a koran that has countless errors in it, and these provably match the very mistaken beliefs and superstitions of people in that era

dont give me this merciful word......I find it "offensive" given the obscenities that take place in your own ummah BECAUSE of islam
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
sazhinghur



Joined: 25 Oct 2008
Posts: 2

PostPosted: Sat Oct 25, 2008 6:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

@OP
Sure, i will publish this in site.

Thanks,
sazhinghur
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
qamar1990



Joined: 13 Nov 2008
Posts: 134
Location: rochester

PostPosted: Wed Nov 19, 2008 4:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

sad story
i hate bad love stories, think bout my love wen i read dis stuf.
im big suporter of love( islam too im not exmuslim jus so u guys kno)
_________________
UNDER-COVER-BROTHER!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
charleslemartel



Joined: 29 Nov 2007
Posts: 1071

PostPosted: Wed Nov 19, 2008 4:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

qamar1990 wrote:
sad story
i hate bad love stories, think bout my love wen i read dis stuf.
im big suporter of love( islam too im not exmuslim jus so u guys kno)


This is an internet forum and not SMS-Chat. If you could spell your words properly, may be you will be taken a bit more seriously.

Just a friendly advice.
_________________
Happy New Year to Everyone

Fear is the most powerful emotional tool, it can turn off the areas of the brain responsible for rational thought.
Is that why Muslims can't be rational?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
religionexposed



Joined: 24 Dec 2008
Posts: 48
Location: India

PostPosted: Fri Dec 26, 2008 2:40 pm    Post subject: Re: An Untold Love Story Reply with quote

Ali Sina wrote:
An Untold Love Story

One of my muslim friends believes that Turkey is a secular country. He may not be aware about the fact that Turkey uses the word secular just for name and it is fundamentalist in reality.
_________________
Religion is one of the easiest ways to fool people.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
religionexposed



Joined: 24 Dec 2008
Posts: 48
Location: India

PostPosted: Fri Dec 26, 2008 5:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

daffodil wrote:
What kind of animals does Islam breed?

Even wild animals have love on their children. Even inhuman gangsters and mafia leaders love their children. But islamic brutes prefer honor and ignore the love.
_________________
Religion is one of the easiest ways to fool people.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Display posts from previous:   
This forum is locked: you cannot post, reply to, or edit topics.   This topic is locked: you cannot edit posts or make replies.    Faith Freedom International Forum Index -> Testimonies of Those Leaving Islam All times are GMT
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3 ... , 11, 12, 13  Next
Page 12 of 13

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum


Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2002 phpBB Group

 

  Search the Forum