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Ali Sina
Joined: 13 Feb 2004
Posts: 4607
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 Posted: Mon Jan 31, 2005 9:57 pm Post subject: Yamin Zakaria defends Islam |
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Yamin Zakaria vs. Ali Sina
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Don't be a follower, but a prophet unto your own.
Last edited by Ali Sina on Mon Jul 21, 2008 6:46 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Myrddin Emrys
Joined: 28 Dec 2004
Posts: 1908
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| Posted: Mon Jan 31, 2005 10:43 pm Post subject: |
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I found Zakaria's condemnation of Western 'snuff sex' (better known as snuff movies - where actual rape, murder and other obscene acts are filmed as part of the film plot) quite ironic given the amount of Islamic web sites that have displayed beheadings in the name of Allah! Are Islamic snuff movies more acceptable to Mr Zakaria than their Western alternatives?
_________________
People will believe anything because they either fear it is true, or because they want to believe it is true.
Wizard's First Rule, courtesy of Terry Goodkind from the Sword of Truth novels. |
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MrHappy
Joined: 16 Feb 2004
Posts: 1384
Location: R.I.P George Best
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| Posted: Mon Jan 31, 2005 11:11 pm Post subject: |
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Has the debate started yet ? All I see is bluster from Zakaria. I tried to read his rebuttal to "“Followers of Islam: Can You See the Blood on Your Hands?”"
http://www.renewamerica.us/columns/stock041115.htm
And he does go into attack mode by trying to do a comparison with other religions and religious scriptures to islam.
For example;
s for pedophilia, marriage in Islam takes place only after puberty. Of course the age-old and hate-filled reference to Prophet Muhammad’s (SAW) marriage to Aisha (RA) is there. This was line with Judeo-Christian tradition of marriage after puberty and the age of Aisha is disputed. In fact, in Jewish laws Rabbis are permitted to marry girls before the age of puberty and have non-penetrative sex but not in Islam. Some people may be shocked but unlike Islam there is not a concerted campaign against Judaism. Bible claims Prophet Lot committed incest, Prophet David committed adultery but yet no Muslims ever claimed that Christianity advocates incest or adultery even though the Muslims have the stronger grounds to make such smears!
Hmmm.
[/url]
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If you see a sacred cow, kick it. |
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yeezevee
Joined: 17 Feb 2004
Posts: 17115
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| Posted: Tue Feb 01, 2005 12:12 am Post subject: |
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| ..Yamin Zakaria vs. Ali Sina.. |
dear Yamin Zakaria everything is wonderful and great in Islam and sex is a problem outsude of Islam, that is all o.k ., but I wonder about this forum
http://www.cdlr.net/English/cdlrboard/index.php?s=
I was trying join in it , every time, i tried some one blocks me., I wonder something is wrong with my computer or with the forum..
Please continue to enlighten with your responses., I wonder whether you have completed your graduation from that chemistry Group you were in??
Well, you are a famous guy, with or without that chemistry.. check this out did you read this?
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Misconstruing Musharraf
I wish to draw your kind attention to the venomous outbursts of Yamin Zakaria contained in his letter to the editor in your esteemed newspaper on December 30, 2004.
I am not aware of the credentials of the writer, but the rancour and malice expressed is indicative of the fact that he is acting as a hatchet man for elements perturbed by President Pervez Musharraf’s popularity at home and abroad.
It seems that he and others of his kind, for whom he is holding the brief, are living in a time warp. How could Yamin Zakaria be so oblivious to the ground realities obtaining in Pakistan that he has chosen to misconstrue whatever the President of Pakistan had stated in his address at the International Institute for Strategic Studies?
Zakaria’s opinion, titled ‘Mufti Musharraf on Khalafah’ (by the way, it is Khilafat and not Khilafah) reinforces the view that a silly friend can do you more harm than an intelligent foe. Not only is he blissfully ignorant of the essence of Islam; he has also failed to comprehend President Musharraf’s speech. It is, thanks to people like him, that we find ourselves in the sorry state of affairs prevailing today where Islam (the religion of peace and tolerance) is being equated with terrorism. It is time all moderate and enlightened Muslims the world over raised their voices in protest against such retrogressive elements who are bent upon bringing a bad name to their good religion.
Suffice it to say that Yamin Zakaria’s imagination has run wild to please those in the shadows.
Sajida Iqbal Syed
Press Minister High Commission for Pakistan, Dhaka |
http://www.bangladeshobserveronline.com/new/2004/04/03/editorial.htm
with best regards
yeezevee
Last edited by yeezevee on Tue Feb 01, 2005 1:56 am; edited 1 time in total |
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SherKhan
Joined: 18 Feb 2004
Posts: 491
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| Posted: Tue Feb 01, 2005 1:12 am Post subject: |
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Ali wrote…
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| Incest: This is a sickness of mind. It is by no means an exclusively western problem........... |
I thought incest starts from the beginning of Islam. Those who believe in Adam & Eve story instead of evolution theory should understand that children of A & E must have done something fishy. |
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MONICA
Joined: 20 Feb 2004
Posts: 170
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| Posted: Tue Feb 01, 2005 1:37 am Post subject: |
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| Yamin Zakaria vs. Ali Sina |
No, please please please not again. The great seer "MONICA" predicts the one or all of the following outcomes.
1) Mr. Zakaria will present the bloodthirsty Bible as evidence even though the Bible is not on trial (he will also forget that it is corrupted).
2) Mr. Zakaria will resort to "NAME CALLING" or threat of "PHYSICAL HARM".
3) Mr. Zakaria will become suddenly busy with class, work, symposium or doing his laundry.
4) Mr. Zakaria will declare himself the winner--WHICH NONE WILL BE ABLE TO DENY!!!
5) Or Mr. Zakaria will suddenly DISAPPEAR!!!!!!!
Please feel free to add more predictions that the great seer "MONICA" left out!!!! |
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yeezevee
Joined: 17 Feb 2004
Posts: 17115
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| Posted: Tue Feb 01, 2005 1:55 am Post subject: |
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| MONICA: Please feel free to add more predictions.. |
well dear Monica this is what Mr. Yamin Zakaria states in one of his writings
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| “We will return one day unified as one nation with one army and rest assure that those criminal Jews from the criminal state of Israel will have no sanctuary this time. Even though Islamic laws give them protection, the sons of those who have been killed may not adhere to that protection. The world is a witness to the fact that, it is the Jews that are hastening to full fill that prophecy of Prophet Muhammad (SAW), that the end of time will not come until the Moslems fight the Jews and kill them all. Prior to that time anti-Semitism will become a virtue not a stigma! Europe has begun to recognize this as has many patriotic Christian Americans-it is simply a matter of time.” |
I am not sure what this Icon buster is going to say about other idolaters and he comes out of Pakisthan...
yeezevee
Last edited by yeezevee on Tue Feb 01, 2005 1:57 am; edited 2 times in total |
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Dhimmi Buffett
Joined: 01 Jan 2005
Posts: 54
Location: California
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| Posted: Tue Feb 01, 2005 6:36 pm Post subject: |
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Zakaria wi'll continue to stall until he feels justified in weasling out of the debate. He is like the defense attorney who attempts to delay the trial by debating how many water glasses are allowed on the table or what types of pens the jurors can use to take notes.
Hey Zakaria, if you are reading this, just go for it. Defend your prophet from the evidence presented in the Koran. It's as simple as that. If you make good points, then you can change minds. If you weasle out, then we can consider you to be one who realizes that Mohammed is an immoral fraud, but pretends otherwise. |
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bob
Joined: 16 Feb 2004
Posts: 3051
Location: Paris, France
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| Posted: Tue Feb 01, 2005 11:27 pm Post subject: |
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| SherKhan wrote: |
Ali wrote…
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| Incest: This is a sickness of mind. It is by no means an exclusively western problem........... |
I thought incest starts from the beginning of Islam. Those who believe in Adam & Eve story instead of evolution theory should understand that children of A & E must have done something fishy. |
The one thing that can be said in favour of incest is that it emphasises family values. That must be why Muslims (and others) who believe in Adam and Eve have no problem with the fable.
_________________
"Ecrasez l'infâme!"
Last edited by bob on Tue Feb 01, 2005 11:30 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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skonk4
Joined: 18 Oct 2004
Posts: 938
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| Posted: Wed Feb 02, 2005 10:26 am Post subject: |
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Secularislam.org
Muslim honor: Kuwaiti man slit daughter's throat
From: Autopsy revealed she was virgin
Date: 26 Jan 2005
HONOUR KILLING : Kuwaiti 'slit daughter's throat'
A Kuwaiti man has reportedly confessed to killing his 14-year-old daughter because he believed she was having sex. Adnan Enezi - an employee in the Islamic Affairs ministry - had just returned from the pilgrimage to Mecca.
He allegedly bound and blindfolded his daughter, Haifa, knelt her down in front of her two brothers and sister and then cut her throat.
Forensic tests showed Haifa was still a virgin, police sources said. Mr Enezi is being questioned about the case.
Thousands of women are killed by relatives each year in the Middle East and Asia in so-called honour crimes - usually over suspected adultery, pre-marital sex or after having being raped, or marrying without family consent.
The suspect - who is also undergoing mental health tests - was separated from his wife, and has been imprisoned in Saudi Arabia for 18 months for his extremist activities, the al-Rai al-Am newspaper reported.
The daily said that after cutting Haifa's throat the first time, he swapped the knife for one with a sharper blade as she bled and screamed in front of her siblings.
Al-Qabas daily said the brothers and sister fled from the house after the murder, while their uncle took their sister to a hospital, but she had already died.
Allah knows best !But A Sina knows better ... Leave Islam now or you will be slave to this murderous Allah and his henchmen.
Last edited by skonk4 on Wed Feb 02, 2005 10:30 am; edited 2 times in total |
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Mullah Kintyre
Joined: 04 Feb 2005
Posts: 1
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| Posted: Fri Feb 04, 2005 7:52 pm Post subject: 'nah what Yamin' |
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it would help the debate if Yamin's responses were posted fairly.
...and the truth will out.  |
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doubtless
Joined: 17 Feb 2004
Posts: 6442
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| Posted: Fri Feb 04, 2005 9:13 pm Post subject: Re: 'nah what Yamin' |
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| Mullah Kintyre wrote: |
it would help the debate if Yamin's responses were posted fairly.
...and the truth will out. |
Why is it unfair? Has any of his words or contents been changed or deleted? I think it makes it easier to read to have Yamin's points and Ali's response interspersed as they are.
_________________
Ali Sina: "The truth is out there for those who want to see it. It is beyond doubt."
Rg Veda: "He who surveys it in the highest heaven; He surely knows - or maybe He does not!" |
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PeaceOnEarth
Joined: 13 Feb 2004
Posts: 1564
Location: USA
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| Posted: Sat Feb 05, 2005 6:03 am Post subject: |
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Ali,
I googled Yamin Zakaria to get a sense of his values. Is Yamin willing to apply the same yard sticks to judge Quran and Islam?
Here are some excerpts:
Statement I:
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| In theory, if we genuinely believe that all human lives have the same value then the reaction should be identical to the killing of any innocent person. |
Source: http://usa.mediamonitors.net/headlines/an_apology_from_alqaeda
Statement 2:
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| For example, very few would dispute the depravity of deliberately killing a defenceless child. Similarly, the immorality of committing armed robbery motivated by sheer greed, rather than seeking to satisfy basic human needs for survival. Therefore, such actions are classified as crimes in almost every part of the world. |
Source: http://www.world-crisis.com/analysis_comments/413_0_15_0_C37/
Statement 3:
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| Islam categorically prohibits sex even through consent (adultery or fornication) outside marriage then surely by greater reasoning you cannot force someone to have sex through rape! It is double the aggression. Rapist are punished severely under the Islamic penal codes, unlike the West, rapists are not rewarded with a cozy cell and then released after a sort period of time in the name of being liberal. This is because Islam places a much higher value on the honor of a woman, reflected in the severe punishment given to rapists. |
Source: http://www.renewamerica.us/columns/stock041115.htm
Statement 4:
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| As for pedophilia, marriage in Islam takes place only after puberty. Of course the age-old and hate-filled reference to Prophet Muhammad’s (SAW) marriage to Aisha (RA) is there. This was line with Judeo-Christian tradition of marriage after puberty and the age of Aisha is disputed. |
Source: http://www.renewamerica.us/columns/stock041115.htm
Statement 5:
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| I advocate the right of the victim seeking retribution or acting in self-defense. |
Source: http://www.renewamerica.us/columns/stock041115.htm
Statement 6:
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| For the unbelievers devoid of religious morals, their minds operate in the realms of pure rationality; eugenics, genocide, cannibalism, incest, necrophilia, homosexuality and anything else goes as long as their mind can put forward a convincing case instead of relying upon the medieval religious dogmas! |
Source: http://www.jihadunspun.com/newsarchive/article_internal.php?article=100122&list=/newsarchive/index.php&
Statement 7:
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| Indeed, propaganda always paves the way for a nation to commit mass murder. Demonization of the enemy helps to lighten the guilt of the perpetrators that are conducting the slaughter. This process is essential as blood-stained hands can easily be cleansed but not the guilty minds. |
Source: http://www.indymedia.org.uk/en/2004/11/300625.html
Statement 8:
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| In contrast, the emotions expressed in the Islamic world are not one of hate but anger. There is a very important distinction. Hate has resulted from the US brainwashing their citizens by subjecting them to endless amounts of propaganda demonizing the Muslim community. From tabloids to mainstream press to Hollywood blockbusters, the portrayal of Muslims and Islam are simply racism. Muslims feel anger due to the circumstances imposed upon them by the US foreign policy. |
Source: http://www.indymedia.org.uk/en/2004/11/300625.html
Statement 9:
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| The colonialist nations (West) embarked upon a programme of propaganda to dismantle the association of military force (Jihad) with religion (Islam). Such propaganda was extended to other areas like polygamy; all constructed on the basis of its own historical experiences, their definitions of ethics and inherent prejudices. |
Source: http://pakistantimes.net/2004/02/28/guest1.htm
Statement 10:
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| The neo-mods (Islamic ‘moderates’!) of today have adopted a similar position on the issue of Jihad, capitulating under the pressure of the Western intelligentsia and their ignorance. Even a cursory examination of the expansion of Islam from Prophet Muhammad (SAW) rule in Medina until the first thirty years after his demise, shows the unquestionable expansion of the Islamic state to Morocco, Syria, southern Russia and India. If the expansion is to be explained as the result of a series of ‘defensive’ wars, which is not only the apex of intellectual dishonesty but demonstrates utter stupidity, and lacking in common sense. |
Source: http://pakistantimes.net/2004/02/28/guest1.htm
Statement 11:
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| Jihad by definition means battling against the forces of non-Islam (Kufr) rather than against practising Muslims. |
Statement 12:
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| The sole purpose of Islamic conquests is to implement Islam, not to engage in empire building where the end justifies the means. |
Statement 13:
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| The Islamic state reserves the right to use military force against foreign states that engage in persecuting Muslims or, preventing the spread of Islam within their lands. Note, in principle there is no concept of forceful conversion of non-Muslims to Islam. |
Statement 14:
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Even under such circumstances the Muslims are not automatically allowed to retaliate against non-combatants (civilians) except in just retribution. ...
Similarly, the Japanese have the right to nuke the cities of the US for their war crimes in 1945. |
Source: http://pakistantimes.net/2004/02/28/guest1.htm
Statement 15:
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| By rational necessity the eternal and uncreated God can never be subjected to the principles that have been derived from the minds of those who HE has created. Similarly, He cannot be subjected to the laws and ethics derived from the human mind as He has created the mind, body and soul. Just as a slave cannot command his master in the same way the eternal sovereign God cannot be commanded or evaluated by His own creation. |
Statement 16:
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| God has the ability to recreate mankind after they have perished, as recreating is easier than creating from scratch. God Almighty can easily undo the alleged ‘murder’ of his subjects and He will on the Day of Judgment by resurrecting everyone! This is something a human being could not do to the murdered victims. So, the concept of murder can only be applied to those human beings that take another life unlawfully; they are guilty as they did not create the life in the first place, thus have no rights over it. And they are not able to resurrect the victims: the guilt persists for ever. |
Statement 17:
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This temporary short life is a test. God Almighty is testing the individuals and the collective community as to how they will respond to such catastrophic events. Answers will be revealed on the Day of Judgment. Hence, life is not meaningless without purpose. Every component in the universe has a purpose therefore the entire universe itself and human life must have a purpose. From the Islamic perspective those who have perished are martyr will be rewarded greatly and the young will enter paradise as they are innocent, they do not need salvation and no one needs to die for their ‘sins’.
And this universe will eventually end with the accounting of all our deeds finally reaching the eternal destination. That is far more consistent and meaningful position then to assert that life began and ended by chance, without any meaning. So a human being is only material, no different to a piece of metal or an animal in the jungle. |
Source: http://www.mail-archive.com/islamcity@yahoogroups.com/msg00620.html
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_________________
"The mind of a bigot is like the pupil of the eye. The more light you shine on it, the more it will contract." - Oliver Wendell Holmes
Last edited by PeaceOnEarth on Sat Feb 05, 2005 6:43 am; edited 9 times in total |
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PeaceOnEarth
Joined: 13 Feb 2004
Posts: 1564
Location: USA
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| Posted: Sat Feb 05, 2005 5:34 pm Post subject: |
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| Ali Sina wrote: |
| You have confused and bungled up a lot of issues. Let us dissect and clarify them. What happened in Abu Ghraib was a crime according to the US military law. The perpetrators broke the law. They were prosecuted and found guilty and were put behind the bars. Some of them received sentences as long as 15 years. We certainly can’t condemn America , its people or its government and not even its military if a few of its individuals break the law. Criminals and law breakers exist in every society. If they are prosecuted and punished the society can’t be blamed. |
This is an excellent point.
Often, Muslims give example of crimes perpetrated by individuals in the West to show that the media in the West is biased or that the system in the West is depraved. Those perpetrators are subject to laws in the West and are prosecuted accordingly. When studying a system, we cannot focus on the behaviors of a few marginal individuals or groups (ie., those that have little or no influence on the system as a whole) that have no bearing on the rules that govern the system.
Actions of marginal individuals or groups cannot be controlled and one cannot judge a system based on that. What the debate needs to focus on is the systems.
What one needs to do is compare these systems. The United States Declaration of Independence included a kind of moral and legal egalitarianism. Because "all men are created equal", the state is under an obligation to treat each person equally under the law. That Islamic laws are not egalitarian is clear without having to compare with anything else. That is an example of what should be looked at critically and used to compare with Islam.
The only example of actions that should be included are those perpetrated by those who create the laws, amend them, or enforce them. They will and should be judged by their actions. Thus the US Parliament and Muhammad should be critically studied for their actions and decisions.
Finally, Quran is supposed to be from God. Showing that US laws or the behavior of US Congress is faulty in no way assists one in absolving Quran of its problem. As a word of God, it should be absolutely free of problems. Thus, I would limit considerations of Declaration of Independence as an example of the kinds of egalitarian thinking that one would expect to find in a word of God. Originally, interpretation of the Declaration of Independence statement excluded women, slaves and other minority groups, but over time egalitarianism has won wide adherence and is now a core component of this declaration. Man made systems such as the declaration of independence can afford to be faulty because they have the luxury of evolving. Quran, as a word of God, is cast in stone with all its faults some 1400 years ago. There lies the core of its problems.
_________________
"The mind of a bigot is like the pupil of the eye. The more light you shine on it, the more it will contract." - Oliver Wendell Holmes
Last edited by PeaceOnEarth on Sat Feb 05, 2005 7:22 pm; edited 6 times in total |
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PeaceOnEarth
Joined: 13 Feb 2004
Posts: 1564
Location: USA
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| Posted: Sat Feb 05, 2005 7:25 pm Post subject: |
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| Myrddin Emrys wrote: |
| I found Zakaria's condemnation of Western 'snuff sex' (better known as snuff movies - where actual rape, murder and other obscene acts are filmed as part of the film plot) quite ironic given the amount of Islamic web sites that have displayed beheadings in the name of Allah! Are Islamic snuff movies more acceptable to Mr Zakaria than their Western alternatives? |
Western movies are just portrayals. They are not real. Islamic beheadings are actuals.
_________________
"The mind of a bigot is like the pupil of the eye. The more light you shine on it, the more it will contract." - Oliver Wendell Holmes |
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