|
Attention: Year 2009 is here
Wishing a very Happy New Year to all members of FFI. Our new and improved site is ready. To visit main site, click at faithfreedom.org and to visit our new forum, click at forum09.faithfreedom.org and register again. Do not worry about your old forum posts and PM, everything is saved here till 31st December, 2008 for future references.
|
| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Author |
Message |
Ram
Joined: 27 Apr 2004 Posts: 1502
|
Posted: Thu Dec 25, 2008 1:36 am Post subject: TALIBAN IS PART OF PAKISTAN ARMY |
|
|
Pak whips itself into war frenzy
25 Dec 2008, 0000 hrs IST, Indrani Bagchi, TNN
The Times of India
NEW DELHI: "We are all Taliban now" is what Pakistanis might soon be saying. With Baitullah Mehsud of Tehrik-e-Taliban (TTP) openly ranging himself and his suicide fighters on the side of Pakistan army, the distinction between the army and the jihadi militia has significantly blurred. The danger of "Talibanisation" becoming "mainstream" in Pakistan is now a proximate reality.
On Tuesday, Mehsud, whose TTP is one of the biggest Taliban terror groups in the FATA areas, offered his bombers to the Pakistan army to fight India. In the immediate aftermath of the Mumbai attacks, Mehsud and Maulana Fazlullah (Tehreek-e-Nafaz-e-Shariat-e-Mohammad) in Swat had both offered their respective terror groups to "help" the Pakistan army. The aggressive noises against India were designed to signal that they meant business and to extend their appeal beyond the large sections who have already embraced them.
In the process, however, the lid may have been taken off the tacit alliance that Pakistan army was always suspected to have with Taliban even when the two were fighting in Federally Administered Tribal Agencies and North West Frontier Province.
Bill Roggio, a US counter-terrorism expert, wrote this week, "Baitullah's commitment to back the government confirms the policy of the Pakistani military and government of creating strategic depth by supporting the Taliban in Afghanistan and a host of Islamist terror groups inside Pakistan and Kashmir. The Pakistanis believe that the terror groups will provide manpower and support in the event of war with India, and that Afghanistan and the mountainous North West Frontier Province would serve as an impenetrable fortress in the rear in case of an Indian invasion."
In public, the Pakistan army, which has fattened itself on assistance from the US to fight Taliban, naturally protests against the suggestion of a clandestine nexus. But a senior Pakistan army official told journalists soon after Mumbai attacks that the military and Taliban were fighting in FATA due to "misunderstandings". "We have only some misunderstandings with Baitullah and Fazlullah. These misunderstandings could be removed through dialogue," he had said. It was later revealed that the army officer was a corps commander.
It seems that the alleged threat from India will serve as the excuse or justification to resolve the "misunderstandings". While this will not surprise India or the US who have viewed Taliban as Pakistan's proxy, an open alliance has reinforced the fear that creeping Talibanisation of Pakistan's establishment has gathered pace.
Fanatical jihadi troopers are moving determinedly out of FATA and into the settled areas of western Pakistan. A US Congress report in November said "so-called settled areas" of Pakistan beyond the tribal regions have come under attack from pro-Taliban militants. Indeed, the "Talibanisation of western Pakistan appears to be ongoing and may now threaten the territorial integrity of the Pakistani state".
While India is a lot more cognizant of this reality, Mehsud's anti-India rhetoric should serve as a wake up call for western governments who still prefer to look at the thin sliver of army leadership who appear to be moderate. They are neither innocent about Pakistan's sponsorship of Taliban or that the collaboration has continued even after Islamabad signed up for the "war on terror". They have, however, winked at evidence of continued camaraderie because of Pakistan's promises of a new beginning and because of their dependence on the Pakistani army for success in Afghanistan.
A few weeks ago, the British press revealed that the UK had hushed up its success in a significant anti-Taliban operation in Afghanistan's Helmand province in 2007 after discovering that the jihadi commander killed was a serving senior level officer in the Pakistan army. His military ID was found on him.
Another US officer, Chris Nash, went on record recently to say Pakistani forces flew repeated helicopter missions into Afghanistan to resupply a Taliban base camp. "On numerous occasions, Afghan border police checkpoints and observation posts were attacked by Pakistani military forces."
Recently, Afghan President Hamid Karzai said he had given GPS coordinates of Mullah Omar to US and Pakistan but nobody took him out. Pakistan's reluctance to act against Taliban should not surprise. It considers the swelling jihadi army as a strategic asset crucial for its ambitions in Afghanistan.
It is the long lance of Pakistan's foreign policy in the region, to keep India unsettled and bring Afghanistan under control. Besides, the facade of fighting the Taliban is the best way the army-ISI establishment can get funds, technology and equipment from the US and Europe. That's a powerful incentive as well. Pakistan's foreign policy games have become profitable -- it's the best way of keeping the army flush.
John Negroponte, US deputy secretary of state said in October, "The US and our allies face near-term challenges from Pakistan's reluctance and inability to roll back terrorist sanctuaries in the tribal region."
That is the reason why the military leadership does not find anything amiss about Mehsud -- accused in the murder of Pakistani President Asif Zardari's wife Benazir Bhutto -- saying that his militia would fight alongside the army against India.
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/Pak_whips_itself_into_war_frenzy/articleshow/3888207.cms |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
Yuyutsu
Joined: 26 Sep 2007 Posts: 543
|
Posted: Thu Dec 25, 2008 8:48 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Oh, shows Pakistan needs to do a lot more. Uncle should help with a few billions more. |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
Ram
Joined: 27 Apr 2004 Posts: 1502
|
Posted: Thu Dec 25, 2008 5:17 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Yuyutsu wrote: |
| Oh, shows Pakistan needs to do a lot more. Uncle should help with a few billions more. |
Uncle Sam has given the terrorist Pakistan billions of dollars. What Pakistanis do? They give to Taliban. Is Uncle Sam blind? |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
Sona2

Joined: 28 Jun 2007 Posts: 1012
|
Posted: Thu Dec 25, 2008 5:49 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Ram, your a fanatical Hindu, quoting a partisan source does not give your argument any validity. Don't you have some witches to hunt? |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
Ram
Joined: 27 Apr 2004 Posts: 1502
|
Posted: Thu Dec 25, 2008 6:10 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Sona2 wrote: |
| Ram, your a fanatical Hindu, quoting a partisan source does not give your argument any validity. Don't you have some witches to hunt? |
Ah.......I am fanatical because I am quoting an article? This is ridiculous. I am just pointing out the facts.
The fact is that Taliban is the creation of Pakistan's ISI which is espoinage arm of the Pakistani army. Taliban is nurtured by Pakistani government. Americans will never win the war in Afghanistan until they deal with Pakistan. Pakistani army has trained hundreds of thousands of Taliban fighters who are sent to Afghanistan on a regular basis. The sad part is that Americans are blind and do not see the facts for themselves.
Most of the fighters fighting against NATO force sare Pakistanis, not Afghans. Taliban Pakistanis who speak the same language (Pushto) as Afghans of Kandhar province are undistinguishable from the locals. That's the reason for confusion. If it weren't for the Taliban division of the Pakistan army NATO would have won the war. For the same reason, Americans failed to capture Osama bin Laden. |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
peacebewithyou

Joined: 17 Jan 2005 Posts: 1646 Location: India and USA
|
Posted: Thu Dec 25, 2008 7:44 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Ram wrote: |
| Sona2 wrote: |
| Ram, your a fanatical Hindu, quoting a partisan source does not give your argument any validity. Don't you have some witches to hunt? |
Ah.......I am fanatical because I am quoting an article? This is ridiculous. I am just pointing out the facts.
The fact is that Taliban is the creation of Pakistan's ISI which is espoinage arm of the Pakistani army. Taliban is nurtured by Pakistani government. Americans will never win the war in Afghanistan until they deal with Pakistan. Pakistani army has trained hundreds of thousands of Taliban fighters who are sent to Afghanistan on a regular basis. The sad part is that Americans are blind and do not see the facts for themselves.
Most of the fighters fighting against NATO force sare Pakistanis, not Afghans. Taliban Pakistanis who speak the same language (Pushto) as Afghans of Kandhar province are undistinguishable from the locals. That's the reason for confusion. If it weren't for the Taliban division of the Pakistan army NATO would have won the war. For the same reason, Americans failed to capture Osama bin Laden. |
I think USA and NATO knows pak is the key. Check "frontline PBS" documentary on taliban. Former, US policy maker said that pak is a "nightmare". I believe US has to go slow. First identify all pakistan nuclear arsenal, war weapons, and key ISI figures. Later on, isolate pakistan and bring world opinion to one side. Finally, start bringing them to their senses. Meantime, India has to make sure that US/NATO stays in aghanistan and have efficient homeland security. India should not go to war but instead stop all visa to pakiSTAN people. If india is so bad then pakistan should not apply for indian visa. _________________ Islam is the root cause of all evil not money. |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
Sona2

Joined: 28 Jun 2007 Posts: 1012
|
Posted: Thu Dec 25, 2008 9:31 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Ram wrote: |
| Sona2 wrote: |
| Ram, your a fanatical Hindu, quoting a partisan source does not give your argument any validity. Don't you have some witches to hunt? |
Ah.......I am fanatical because I am quoting an article? This is ridiculous. I am just pointing out the facts.
The fact is that Taliban is the creation of Pakistan's ISI which is espoinage arm of the Pakistani army. Taliban is nurtured by Pakistani government. Americans will never win the war in Afghanistan until they deal with Pakistan. Pakistani army has trained hundreds of thousands of Taliban fighters who are sent to Afghanistan on a regular basis. The sad part is that Americans are blind and do not see the facts for themselves.
Most of the fighters fighting against NATO force sare Pakistanis, not Afghans. Taliban Pakistanis who speak the same language (Pushto) as Afghans of Kandhar province are undistinguishable from the locals. That's the reason for confusion. If it weren't for the Taliban division of the Pakistan army NATO would have won the war. For the same reason, Americans failed to capture Osama bin Laden. |
The Taliban was a creation of CIA and ISI,to confront the commies in Afghanistan, it was a proxy war. Moreover, The claims of the government of Pakistan being involved in supporting the Taliban is an unsubstantiated claim. One the Pakistani government is a democratic secular government. The political arm of the ISI was disbanded in Pakistan, the government is trying to rain in the rouge ISI agents who are supporting the Taliban. But recently Pakistan has been moving away, did you know a top-American security analyst, has criticised Inida for providing lack of evidence which implicates the terrorist which were from Pakistan, currently under the legal system Pakistani government cant do anything because India is not providing evidence to convict leaders of LIT.
By the way, do you know who's fighting nato in Afganistan, in places like Hellmand? its not Taliban, its an Afghan uprising, its an Afghan movement. |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
Sona2

Joined: 28 Jun 2007 Posts: 1012
|
Posted: Thu Dec 25, 2008 9:35 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| And maybe if the Indian army was not blowing up Thai fishing ships, they might have caught these terrorists. India blow up a Thai fishing ship and claimed it was a "pirate mothership" you should have seen the political embarrassment Indian army had to suffer after it was discovered it was a fishing-ship! |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
Ram
Joined: 27 Apr 2004 Posts: 1502
|
Posted: Fri Dec 26, 2008 3:49 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Sona2 wrote: |
| And maybe if the Indian army was not blowing up Thai fishing ships, they might have caught these terrorists. India blow up a Thai fishing ship and claimed it was a "pirate mothership" you should have seen the political embarrassment Indian army had to suffer after it was discovered it was a fishing-ship! |
What that has to do with Pakistani terrorists killing innocent people in India? Why did they have to attack Orthodox Jewish centre?
Besides we are not talking about Pakistani terrorists in India. We are talking about Taliban which is fighting in Afghanistan. So please do not mix up the issues. You have no answer to what I am saying about the relationship of Pakistani government to the Taliban, instead you bring up the subject Indian army blowing up Thai fishing boat. What is the relationship?
This is very Islamic. Muslims always try to make connection when none exists.
The subject here is war in Afghanistan, not terrorism in India. There is a thread which is dedicated to Pakistani terrorism in India. That's where you should post your comments about the Thai fishing boat, not here. |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
Yuyutsu
Joined: 26 Sep 2007 Posts: 543
|
Posted: Sun Dec 28, 2008 9:27 am Post subject: |
|
|
Taliban leader killed by SAS was Pakistan officer
British officials covered up evidence that a Taliban commander killed by special forces in Helmand last year was in fact a Pakistani military officer, according to highly placed Afghan officials.
The commander, targeted in a compound in the Sangin valley, was one of six killed in the past year by SAS and SBS forces. When the British soldiers entered the compound they discovered a Pakistani military ID on the body.
It was the first physical evidence of covert Pakistani military operations against British forces in Afghanistan even though Islamabad insists it is a close ally in the war against terror.
Britain’s refusal to make the incident public led to a row with the Afghan president Hamid Karzai, who has long accused London of viewing Afghanistan through the eyes of Pakistani military intelligence, which is widely believed to have been helping the Taliban.
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/asia/article4926401.ece |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
crazy canuck
Joined: 20 Mar 2004 Posts: 6391
|
Posted: Sun Dec 28, 2008 7:12 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Pak whips itself into war frenzy
This is smart move on part of Pakistans' defacto governement i.e.ISI-Toiba.
Its aimed at pressurizing USA to stop India from making surgical strikes in Azad Kashmir."It will hurt US plan to curb Tali-Aq in hillls of NW. OPakistan will divert all resources to East"
Or give more money & arms to raise bigger army so that it can fight on both fronts.
US should call the bluff and let go Pakistan army to East. They are lot more hinderence than help in NW. Or destroy Pakistan in the west and let India destroy it in east. |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
Footatoes
Joined: 08 Apr 2007 Posts: 178 Location: In the shoes of TT
|
Posted: Mon Dec 29, 2008 5:15 am Post subject: |
|
|
| crazy canuck wrote: |
Pak whips itself into war frenzy
This is smart move on part of Pakistans' defacto governement i.e.ISI-Toiba.
Its aimed at pressurizing USA to stop India from making surgical strikes in Azad Kashmir."It will hurt US plan to curb Tali-Aq in hillls of NW. OPakistan will divert all resources to East"
Or give more money & arms to raise bigger army so that it can fight on both fronts.
US should call the bluff and let go Pakistan army to East. They are lot more hinderence than help in NW. Or destroy Pakistan in the west and let India destroy it in east. |
Sounds like a gang-bang. But well, the hypocritical country deserves it. _________________ http://richarddawkins.net/home
"There may be fairies at the bottom of the garden. There is no evidence for it, but you can't prove that there aren't any, so shouldn't we be agnostic with respect to fairies?"
Richard Dawkins |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
Sona2

Joined: 28 Jun 2007 Posts: 1012
|
Posted: Mon Dec 29, 2008 12:57 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Ram, the reason why I never responded was, as I don't have time for people who believe in conspiracy theories. The only reason the Taliban said they would fight, with Pakistani army against India is, as they want the Pakistani army to ease up on then, the Taliban are creating this diversion of wanting to start a war with India, so the pressure on them is reduced as Pakistani army would have to send troops from the western border to the eastern border. |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
raghy
Joined: 22 Jan 2006 Posts: 1043 Location: Australia
|
Posted: Tue Dec 30, 2008 10:02 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Sona2 wrote: |
| Ram, the reason why I never responded was, as I don't have time for people who believe in conspiracy theories. The only reason the Taliban said they would fight, with Pakistani army against India is, as they want the Pakistani army to ease up on then, the Taliban are creating this diversion of wanting to start a war with India, so the pressure on them is reduced as Pakistani army would have to send troops from the western border to the eastern border. |
Sona,
Unfortunately, ISI seems to be operating independently to the interest of Pakistani people. While the common people of Pakistan may not be interested in any war, leave alone one against India, ISI does not seem to think so. |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
Gaul&Carthage
Joined: 11 Apr 2004 Posts: 4914
|
Posted: Tue Dec 30, 2008 10:29 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Pak Army and ISI created the taliban, ideologically, physically, support, logistcics...all to the higher agenda of conquering more of Dar-Ul-Harb....they want the whole world to be Islamic...and if they get past India, it's over.
They never will.
There is a reason why we are not like the Zoroastrians in Iran.
G&C |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
|
|
You cannot post new topics in this forum You cannot reply to topics in this forum You cannot edit your posts in this forum You cannot delete your posts in this forum You cannot vote in polls in this forum
|
Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2002 phpBB Group
|