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Crazy Stuff Some Muslims Believe
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Aceology

Joined: 17 Nov 2008
Posts: 124

Posted: Sat Dec 27, 2008 11:43 pm Post subject:

Zeitoon wrote:

This hadith is an example of the type of hadith to be denounced. It is completely irrelevant to the Islamic faith and bears no relation whatsoever to the Quran. It is useless, like many, many hadith.

Hi,

So convenient to ignore hadiths about the Jinns, people before Islam believe in Jinns, that's why muhammed included them in his book.It's intellectually dishonest to have baseless interpretation, without taking the historical context into account.

072.006
YUSUFALI: 'True, there were persons among mankind who took shelter with persons among the Jinns, but they increased them in folly.

Ibn Kathir explains :

Quote:

This was the custom of the Arabs in the pre-Islamic days of ignorance. They used to seek refuge with the greatest Jinn of a particular place so that no harm or evil would afflict them. Like one would do if he entered into the land of his enemies, in the vicinity of a great and powerful man, he would seek the protection and guardianship of that man. So when the Jinns saw that the humans were seeking refuge with them due to their fear of them, they increased them in Rahaq which means fear, terror and fright. They did this so that the people would be more afraid of them and seek refuge with them even more.

Going to Hajj and I'tikaf are as paganistic as belief in Jinns, all are the superstitions of pre-islamic arabs.
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Lincoln

Joined: 16 Jun 2008
Posts: 138

Posted: Sat Dec 27, 2008 11:57 pm Post subject:

Haik Monsieur wrote:

The Prophet said, "A strong demon from the Jinns came to me yesterday suddenly, so as to spoil my prayer, but Allah enabled me to overpower him, and so I caught him and intended to tie him to one of the pillars of the Mosque so that all of you might see him, but I remembered the invocation of my brother Solomon: 'And grant me a kingdom such as shall not belong to any other after me.' (38.35) so I let him go cursed." [Sahih Bukhari: Book: 55, Hadith:634

And what is wrong in pointing out of these stupid stuffs Muslims believe in? Muslims should believe in djinns. I am sure you will agree with it. Then they would naturally believe in their prophet catching a jinni too. But how do these kinds of weird stuffs help you in any way? For me it only helps to create a bunch who will believe in anything if they come through a certain route.

Logic and belief go hand on hand. Jinn in this modern might seem to be an alien and weird idea. But the point is , can anyone become that much sure that there cant be any creature like Jinns?..

Whats the basis of the conclusion that this is weird. Its true that scientifically its not proven or the existence of entities such as Jinn is never found. But does this give everyone the utmost confidence to say that there are no Jinn in the universe.
With the advancement of science, now we know that there are anti-matters which destroy matter. We know that above 70% of total mass of the universe is the mass of the dark matter which we cant see!! To a person lack of knowledge on the precise matter might say that this is weird(Dark matter, anti-matter, God-particle). Therefore, the point is it is a 50-50 situation and nobody should discard them with the excuse of modern science , though I believe that everyone has their choice.
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"Now kill all the boys [innocent kids]. And kill every woman who has slept with a man, but save for yourselves every girl who has never slept with a man." Numbers 31:17
Women are liars, corrupt, greedy, and unvirtuous. (Manu II 1)

Aceology

Joined: 17 Nov 2008
Posts: 124

Posted: Sun Dec 28, 2008 1:15 am Post subject:

Lincoln wrote:

Logic and belief go hand on hand.

Only in Islam

Lincoln wrote:

Jinn in this modern might seem to be an alien and weird idea. But the point is , can anyone become that much sure that there cant be any creature like Jinns?..

Can you be sure that invisible pink unicorns that speak mandarin are not running loose in downtown Manhattan?

No, but what if someone told you; I believe that there are invisible pink unicorns that speak mandarin and are running loose in downtown Manhattan.Cause I have a 1400 year old that tells me so.

Lincoln wrote:

Whats the basis of the conclusion that this is weird.

too much from a guy who makes fun of trinity. Jinns are not weird believing in them with no evidence is weird.

Quote:

We know that above 70% of total mass of the universe is the mass of the dark matter which we cant see!! To a person lack of knowledge on the precise matter might say that this is weird(Dark matter, anti-matter, God-particle).

one thing that separates Jinns from anti-matter is evidence.

Quote:

Therefore, the point is it is a 50-50 situation and nobody should discard them with the excuse of modern science , though I believe that everyone has their choice.

I would LOVE to see your calculations, that suggests there is 50% chance that Jinns exist.

Regards

Ace

P.S. Don't go to down town Manhatttan there is a 50- 50 chance that an invisible unicorn will bit you, and you will turn into a zombie.
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Lincoln

Joined: 16 Jun 2008
Posts: 138

Posted: Sun Dec 28, 2008 1:56 am Post subject:

Aceology wrote:

Only in Islam

As you think.

Quote:

Can you be sure that invisible pink unicorns that speak mandarin are not running loose in downtown Manhattan?

Are you caught up with this? The answer is ofcourse given below by you!

Quote:

No, but what if someone told you; I believe that there are invisible pink unicorns that speak mandarin and are running loose in downtown Manhattan.Cause I have a 1400 year old that tells me so.

Do only Muslims talk about the spirits? Jinns? Are you speculating? Is it unique to Muslims?

Quote:

too much from a guy who makes fun of trinity. Jinns are not weird believing in them with no evidence is weird.

No evidence cant be stated as weird. Having no visible evidence may loosen the grip of logic but you cant say weird.( though for the Freedom of speech, you can say)

We know that above 70% of total mass of the universe is the mass of the dark matter which we cant see!! To a person lack of knowledge on the precise matter might say that this is weird(Dark matter, anti-matter, God-particle).

Quote:

one thing that separates Jinns from anti-matter is evidence.

Before it was only in theory, now proven. Think about the God particle. In theoretical physics its there but not proven. Hadron collider has been set up with the intention to find it. Can you remember, how much is invested on hadron collider to prove the existence of God-particle. But still the physicist are sure that they will surely become able to find it!!. ITs science..

Quote:

I would LOVE to see your calculations, that suggests there is 50% chance that Jinns exist.

As God particle is in physics but not proven. Same logic can go for biology too as existence of Jinn hasn’t yet been proven. Thousands of years is ahead of us. Don’t discard to ridicule.

Take care.[/quote]
_________________
"Now kill all the boys [innocent kids]. And kill every woman who has slept with a man, but save for yourselves every girl who has never slept with a man." Numbers 31:17
Women are liars, corrupt, greedy, and unvirtuous. (Manu II 1)

Aceology

Joined: 17 Nov 2008
Posts: 124

Posted: Sun Dec 28, 2008 2:34 am Post subject:

Lincoln wrote:

No, but what if someone told you; I believe that there are invisible pink unicorns that speak mandarin and are running loose in downtown Manhattan.Cause I have a 1400 year old that tells me so.

Do only Muslims talk about the spirits? Jinns? Are you speculating? Is it unique to Muslims?[/quote]

You didn't answer the question, in what way mandarin speaking pink unicorns is any less probable than Jinns

Quote:

Having no visible evidence may loosen the grip of logic but you cant say weird.( though for the Freedom of speech, you can say)

So you accept believing in Jinns is illogical.

Quote:

Before it was only in theory, now proven.

First read the definition of scientific theory and yes it's now proven and now it's logical to accept it, that's called reason, acceptance with evidence,..belife despite the lack of evidence is delusion.

Quote:

Hadron collider has been set up with the intention to find it.

You got it the wrong way, it's not built TO FIND the Higgs boson particle, it have been speculated that LHC might be able to either prove or disprove the god particle's existence.

beside many intriguing questions that it might be able to answer.

Quote:

But still the physicist are sure that they will surely become able to find it!!. ITs science..

educate yourself before embarrassing yourself ;

http://www.ted.com/index.php/talks/brian_cox_on_cern_s_supercollider.html

Quote:

As God particle is in physics but not proven. Same logic can go for biology too as existence of Jinn hasn’t yet been proven. Thousands of years is ahead of us. Don’t discard to ridicule.

they all provide calculations and evidence for their hypothesis which if proven will become theories,...your Jinn stories is not even a hypotheisis...since you have not provided a base for your argument.

Ignorance on the subject is not evidence.
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charleslemartel

Joined: 29 Nov 2007
Posts: 1071

Posted: Sun Dec 28, 2008 4:46 am Post subject:

Zeitoon wrote:

This hadith is an example of the type of hadith to be denounced. It is completely irrelevant to the Islamic faith and bears no relation whatsoever to the Quran. It is useless, like many, many hadith.

Hello Zeitoon, but Quran does talk of Djinns. Of course, it does not say much about them so it was natural for the followers of Muhammad to ask him about them. What Muhammad told them is preserved for posterity in sahih hadiths. Now, in the modern times, you know that it was all superstitious and you feel embarrassed by such statements of Muhammad and hence the need for Muslims like you to take hadiths selectively and reject those which cause embarrassments.

Quote:

The true question is whether or not Islam and its pillars depend on these stories and superstitions.

Islam does depend on Quran and Quran does talk of superstitions like Djinns and other erroneous scientific beliefs. One cannot wish them away. However, if you are implying to be selective about Qurani verses and rejecting those which are obviously false, that is another matter.
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Happy New Year to Everyone

Fear is the most powerful emotional tool, it can turn off the areas of the brain responsible for rational thought.
Is that why Muslims can't be rational?

charleslemartel

Joined: 29 Nov 2007
Posts: 1071

Posted: Sun Dec 28, 2008 5:00 am Post subject:

Lincoln wrote:

Therefore, the point is it is a 50-50 situation and nobody should discard them with the excuse of modern science , though I believe that everyone has their choice.

Are you not raising a 50% doubt on some verses of Quran? Is it blasphemy, or are Muslims allowed to raise doubts on the sayings of Allah?

I thought you would be one hundred percent certain about the existence of djinns.
_________________
Happy New Year to Everyone

Fear is the most powerful emotional tool, it can turn off the areas of the brain responsible for rational thought.
Is that why Muslims can't be rational?

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