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Attention: Year 2009 is here
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sum
Joined: 10 Jul 2005
Posts: 8527
Location: UK
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 Posted: Mon Dec 22, 2008 12:25 pm Post subject: Will any muslims wish us a Merry Christmas? |
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It will be interesting to see if any muslim breaks with Islamic teaching and wishes us a Happy Christmas. I am lead to believe that they are not supposed to but it does not stop me hoping that some might break with the anti-social teaching and join us in celebrating Christmas.
sum |
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johnbrown1618
Joined: 06 Apr 2006
Posts: 1054
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| Posted: Mon Dec 22, 2008 2:27 pm Post subject: |
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| Ahmadinejad asys "look, there's Santa's sleigh...wait a minute...Santa's sleigh doesn't have missiles...ADALADALADALADALAHHHH!!!" |
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S.A.M
Joined: 03 Dec 2008
Posts: 115
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| Posted: Mon Dec 22, 2008 6:14 pm Post subject: Re: Will any muslims wish us a Merry Christmas? |
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| sum wrote: |
It will be interesting to see if any muslim breaks with Islamic teaching and wishes us a Happy Christmas. I am lead to believe that they are not supposed to but it does not stop me hoping that some might break with the anti-social teaching and join us in celebrating Christmas.
sum |
 I wish you a HAPPY CHRISTMAS FORUMERS! ... |
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Haik Monsieur
Joined: 17 Sep 2006
Posts: 2393
Location: FFI
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| Posted: Mon Dec 22, 2008 6:36 pm Post subject: |
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____________________
Ruling on celebrating non-Muslim holidays and congratulating them
Greeting the kuffaar on Christmas and other religious holidays of theirs is haraam, by consensus, as Ibn al-Qayyim, may Allaah have mercy on him, said in Ahkaam Ahl al-Dhimmah: "Congratulating the kuffaar on the rituals that belong only to them is haraam by consensus, as is congratulating them on their festivals and fasts by saying ‘A happy festival to you’ or ‘May you enjoy your festival,’ and so on. If the one who says this has been saved from kufr, it is still forbidden. It is like congratulating someone for prostrating to the cross, or even worse than that. It is as great a sin as congratulating someone for drinking wine, or murdering someone, or having illicit sexual relations, and so on. Many of those who have no respect for their religion fall into this error; they do not realize the offensiveness of their actions. Whoever congratulates a person for his disobedience or bid’ah or kufr exposes himself to the wrath and anger of Allaah."
Congratulating the kuffaar on their religious festivals is haraam to the extent described by Ibn al-Qayyim because it implies that one accepts or approves of their rituals of kufr, even if one would not accept those things for oneself. But the Muslim should not aceept the rituals of kufr or congratulate anyone else for them, because Allaah does not accept any of that at all, as He says (interpretation of the meaning):
"If you disbelieve, then verily, Allaah is not in need of you, He likes not disbelief for His slaves. And if you are grateful (by being believers), He is pleased therewith for you. . ."
[Quran Al-Zumar 39:7]
". . . This day, I have perfected your religion for you, completed My favour upon you, and have chosen for you Islaam as your religion . . ."
[Al-Maaidah 5:3]
So congratulating them is forbidden, whether they are one’s colleagues at work or otherwise.
If they greet us on the occasion of their festivals, we should not respond, because these are not our festivals, and because they are not festivals which are acceptable to Allaah. These festivals are innovations in their religions, and even those which may have been prescribed formerly have been abrogated by the religion of Islaam, with which Allaah sent Muhammad to the whole of mankind. Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):
"Whoever seeks a religion other than Islaam, it will never be accepted of him, and in the Hereafter he will be one of the losers." [Quran Aal ‘Imraan 3:85]
It is haraam for a Muslim to accept invitations on such occasions, because this is worse than congratulating them as it implies taking part in their celebrations.
Similarly, Muslims are forbidden to imitate the kuffaar by having parties on such occasions, or exchanging gifts, or giving out sweets or food, or taking time off work, etc., because the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: "Whoever imitates a people is one of them." Shaykh al-Islaam Ibn Taymiyah said in his book Iqtidaa’ al-siraat al-mustaqeem mukhaalifat ashaab al-jaheem: "Imitating them in some of their festivals implies that one is pleased with their false beliefs and practices, and gives them the hope that they may have the opportunity to humiliate and mislead the weak."
Whoever does anything of this sort is a sinner, whether he does it out of politeness or to be friendly, or because he is too shy to refuse, or for whatever other reason, because this is hypocrisy in Islaam, and because it makes the kuffaar feel proud of their religion.
Allaah is the One Whom we ask to make the Muslims feel proud of their religion, to help them adhere steadfastly to it, and to make them victorious over their enemies, for He is the Strong and Omnipotent.
[Majmoo’ah Fataawa wa Rasaa’il al-Shaykh Ibn ‘Uthaymeen*, 3/369]
* Late Mufti of Saudi Arabia(1925-2001 CE)
>>>Source<<<
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Chewchy
Joined: 02 Feb 2008
Posts: 1774
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| Posted: Mon Dec 22, 2008 7:27 pm Post subject: Re: Will any muslims wish us a Merry Christmas? |
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| sum wrote: |
It will be interesting to see if any muslim breaks with Islamic teaching and wishes us a Happy Christmas. I am lead to believe that they are not supposed to but it does not stop me hoping that some might break with the anti-social teaching and join us in celebrating Christmas.
sum |
It depends upon how much they adhere to Islam. The Muslims that I know in the US (Family included) not only celebrate Christmas as a day to get together, eat and exchange gifts, they do wish a "Merry Christmas".
Even "Baba Noel" comes to their house with presents for the kids  |
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Trojan Horse
Joined: 19 Mar 2004
Posts: 1488
Location: "Where the Islamic hell freezes over..."
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| Posted: Mon Dec 22, 2008 8:03 pm Post subject: Re: Will any muslims wish us a Merry Christmas? |
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| sum wrote: |
It will be interesting to see if any muslim breaks with Islamic teaching and wishes us a Happy Christmas. I am lead to believe that they are not supposed to but it does not stop me hoping that some might break with the anti-social teaching and join us in celebrating Christmas.
sum |
Christmas has become a taboo word and I wouldn't say for Muslims, because most of them will still wish you a Merry Christmas. However, its the whole western world that is somehow "ashamed" of the word Christmas, that it has gradually been replaced by the politically correct phrase "Happy Holidays " or "Season's Greetings" So to wish one publicly a Merry Christmas has become a thing of the past. Check out clerks in all stores, TV and Radio will not use this greeting because it may "offend" some... Go figure!
Our society readily embraces festivals of other faiths like Eid, for Muslims, Divali, for Sikh and Hindus etc., yet it tries to discourage the celebration of Christians, Christmas, by making it into an all inclusive secular holiday.
BTW, Happy Haunnakah to all our Jewish brothers here....... Now go light your minnorah !
Happy Kawanza too ! ! !
Merry Christmas to all ! ! ! !
Bah Humbug !
_________________
Famous last words:
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| I'm an advocate of pedophilia. Its legal according to Allah's law, there's nothing wrong with it. |
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ghostbusting
Joined: 12 Dec 2008
Posts: 120
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| Posted: Tue Dec 23, 2008 12:39 am Post subject: Re: Will any muslims wish us a Merry Christmas? |
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| sum wrote: |
It will be interesting to see if any muslim breaks with Islamic teaching and wishes us a Happy Christmas. I am lead to believe that they are not supposed to but it does not stop me hoping that some might break with the anti-social teaching and join us in celebrating Christmas.
sum |
Sure! Why not, Christians? You have been misled and misinformed. That is the problem.
Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year to all Christians. I have sent lots of cards to my Christian friends.
And Happy Hanuka to all Jews.
_________________
Ali Sina to me (abridged):"If you don't like someone's tone don't read their comments. I do that and I have kept my peace for seven years."
I like this advice. Ali, it is really working and I am keeping my peace. |
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ghostbusting
Joined: 12 Dec 2008
Posts: 120
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| Posted: Tue Dec 23, 2008 12:45 am Post subject: |
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| Haik Monsieur wrote: |
____________________
Ruling on celebrating non-Muslim holidays and congratulating them
Greeting the kuffaar on Christmas and other religious holidays of theirs is haraam, by consensus, as Ibn al-Qayyim, may Allaah have mercy on him, said in Ahkaam Ahl al-Dhimmah: "Congratulating the kuffaar on the rituals that belong only to them is haraam by consensus, as is congratulating them on their festivals and fasts by saying ‘A happy festival to you’ or ‘May you enjoy your festival,’ and so on. If the one who says this has been saved from kufr, it is still forbidden. It is like congratulating someone for prostrating to the cross, or even worse than that. It is as great a sin as congratulating someone for drinking wine, or murdering someone, or having illicit sexual relations, and so on. Many of those who have no respect for their religion fall into this error; they do not realize the offensiveness of their actions. Whoever congratulates a person for his disobedience or bid’ah or kufr exposes himself to the wrath and anger of Allaah."
Congratulating the kuffaar on their religious festivals is haraam to the extent described by Ibn al-Qayyim because it implies that one accepts or approves of their rituals of kufr, even if one would not accept those things for oneself. But the Muslim should not aceept the rituals of kufr or congratulate anyone else for them, because Allaah does not accept any of that at all, as He says (interpretation of the meaning):
"If you disbelieve, then verily, Allaah is not in need of you, He likes not disbelief for His slaves. And if you are grateful (by being believers), He is pleased therewith for you. . ."
[Quran Al-Zumar 39:7]
". . . This day, I have perfected your religion for you, completed My favour upon you, and have chosen for you Islaam as your religion . . ."
[Al-Maaidah 5:3]
So congratulating them is forbidden, whether they are one’s colleagues at work or otherwise.
If they greet us on the occasion of their festivals, we should not respond, because these are not our festivals, and because they are not festivals which are acceptable to Allaah. These festivals are innovations in their religions, and even those which may have been prescribed formerly have been abrogated by the religion of Islaam, with which Allaah sent Muhammad to the whole of mankind. Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):
"Whoever seeks a religion other than Islaam, it will never be accepted of him, and in the Hereafter he will be one of the losers." [Quran Aal ‘Imraan 3:85]
It is haraam for a Muslim to accept invitations on such occasions, because this is worse than congratulating them as it implies taking part in their celebrations.
Similarly, Muslims are forbidden to imitate the kuffaar by having parties on such occasions, or exchanging gifts, or giving out sweets or food, or taking time off work, etc., because the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: "Whoever imitates a people is one of them." Shaykh al-Islaam Ibn Taymiyah said in his book Iqtidaa’ al-siraat al-mustaqeem mukhaalifat ashaab al-jaheem: "Imitating them in some of their festivals implies that one is pleased with their false beliefs and practices, and gives them the hope that they may have the opportunity to humiliate and mislead the weak."
Whoever does anything of this sort is a sinner, whether he does it out of politeness or to be friendly, or because he is too shy to refuse, or for whatever other reason, because this is hypocrisy in Islaam, and because it makes the kuffaar feel proud of their religion.
Allaah is the One Whom we ask to make the Muslims feel proud of their religion, to help them adhere steadfastly to it, and to make them victorious over their enemies, for He is the Strong and Omnipotent.
[Majmoo’ah Fataawa wa Rasaa’il al-Shaykh Ibn ‘Uthaymeen*, 3/369]
* Late Mufti of Saudi Arabia(1925-2001 CE)
>>>Source<<< |
Forget the Fatwas, etc. Congratulating others on their day of joy and happiness and wishing them well is not haram.
Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year to you, too.
_________________
Ali Sina to me (abridged):"If you don't like someone's tone don't read their comments. I do that and I have kept my peace for seven years."
I like this advice. Ali, it is really working and I am keeping my peace. |
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Mersk
Joined: 16 Jul 2004
Posts: 5764
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| Posted: Tue Dec 23, 2008 12:50 am Post subject: |
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Merry Christmas to all Muslims ( rep. of Jesus's Birthday ) here at FFI! And Merry Christmas to all Christians and Merry Christmas to you too!!
_________________
MAM = Muslims acting as Muslim Affairs Ministers for Modk. HAM = Last Profit of Islam. |
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Ex-muslimah
Joined: 19 Jul 2006
Posts: 909
Location: Scotland somewhere
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| Posted: Tue Dec 23, 2008 2:59 pm Post subject: |
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Happy Yule everyone and have a happy 2009
_________________
The Borg is si-fi's Islam. The "Collective" is the Ummah and they assimilate the kaffir.
*http://www.karmanirvana.org.uk/* - For if you are in a forced marriage in the UK |
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raghy
Joined: 22 Jan 2006
Posts: 1043
Location: Australia
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| Posted: Tue Dec 23, 2008 3:10 pm Post subject: |
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Forget about a Muslim.....a Christian failed to wish me Merry Christmas to me today! Poor woman, I felt sorry for her. It happened like this....
She was handing over the shift to me. At the end of the hand over, while she was leaving (instead of saying the usual 'have a good day!'), I said 'merry Christmas to you!'. She replied, 'Raghy, I don't celebrate Christmas!'. I was surprised and asked her,' aren't you a Christian?' she said 'yes. But I am married to a Muslim. He doesn't like Christmas celebrations. So, I can't celebrate'. Poor girl, she married him in Algeria. |
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qamar1990
Joined: 13 Nov 2008
Posts: 134
Location: rochester
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| Posted: Tue Dec 23, 2008 5:32 pm Post subject: |
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i wish you happy holidays.
_________________
UNDER-COVER-BROTHER! |
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sum
Joined: 10 Jul 2005
Posts: 8527
Location: UK
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| Posted: Tue Dec 23, 2008 6:04 pm Post subject: |
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Hello qamar1990
Your quote -
i wish you happy holidays.
Thank you very much.
Are you permitted to wish us a Happy Christmas?
You might want to but are you allowed?
sum |
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manta ray
Joined: 02 Nov 2005
Posts: 702
Location: Land of Diversity
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| Posted: Tue Dec 23, 2008 6:29 pm Post subject: |
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| raghy wrote: |
Forget about a Muslim.....a Christian failed to wish me Merry Christmas to me today! Poor woman, I felt sorry for her. It happened like this....
She was handing over the shift to me. At the end of the hand over, while she was leaving (instead of saying the usual 'have a good day!'), I said 'merry Christmas to you!'. She replied, 'Raghy, I don't celebrate Christmas!'. I was surprised and asked her,' aren't you a Christian?' she said 'yes. But I am married to a Muslim. He doesn't like Christmas celebrations. So, I can't celebrate'. Poor girl, she married him in Algeria. |
There is this Christian sect (actually they don't consider themselves Christians) who got the same nasty attitude towards Christmas. I used to greet everyone at work during Christmas season. But now, I don't bother.
I also had the same experience with a Muslim. He's a bus driver. I can't forget the sneer and the glare. Some Muslims are polite. They return the greetings with a smile.
BTW, Muslim scholars send rare Christmas greetings .
_________________
I'd better have questions that I can't answer rather than answers that I can't question. |
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Charlie Brown
Joined: 19 Oct 2008
Posts: 13
Location: London
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| Posted: Wed Dec 24, 2008 2:00 pm Post subject: |
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[quote="raghy"]Forget about a Muslim.....a Christian failed to wish me Merry Christmas to me today! Poor woman, I felt sorry for her. It happened like this....
She was handing over the shift to me. At the end of the hand over, while she was leaving (instead of saying the usual 'have a good day!'), I said 'merry Christmas to you!'. She replied, 'Raghy, I don't celebrate Christmas!'. I was surprised and asked her,' aren't you a Christian?' she said 'yes. But I am married to a Muslim. He doesn't like Christmas celebrations. So, I can't celebrate'. Poor girl, she married him in Algeria.[/quote]
[color=#444444][color=darkred][size=18]Every day I am relieved to be out of my relationship with an Algerian Muslim! Poor girl.
Mersk - if that is a photo of you - you are a very pretty girl.
HA[/color]PPY CHRISTMAS T[/color]O ALL!!!![/size] |
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