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sum
Joined: 10 Jul 2005
Posts: 8527
Location: UK
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 Posted: Sun Dec 14, 2008 10:25 pm Post subject: What were Muhammad`s sins? |
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Muhammad was a self confessed sinner. He asked for forgiveness for his sins, past, present and future.
Sahih Bukhari
Volume 9, Book 93, Number 590:
Narrated Ibn Abbas:
Whenever the Prophet offered the night (Tahajjud) prayer, he used to say, "O Allah! All the Praises are for You; You are the Light of the Heavens and the Earth. And all the Praises are for You; You are the Keeper of the Heavens and the Earth. All the Praises are for You; You are the Lord of the Heavens and the Earth and whatever is therein. You are the Truth, and Your Promise is the Truth, and Your Speech is the Truth, and meeting You is the Truth, and Paradise is the Truth and Hell (Fire) is the Truth and all the prophets are the Truth and the Hour is the Truth. O Allah! I surrender to You, and believe in You, and depend upon You, and repent to You, and in Your cause I fight and with Your orders I rule. So please forgive my past and future sins and those sins which I did in secret or in public. It is You Whom I worship, None has the right to be worshipped except You ." (See Hadith No. 329,Vol. 8 )
Do we know what these sins were and are they listed anywhere in the Islamic history? Could the muslims tell us what Muhammad`s sins were but are they likely to tell us? Do the muslims accept that Muhammad was a sinner?
sum |
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Chewchy
Joined: 02 Feb 2008
Posts: 1774
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| Posted: Sun Dec 14, 2008 10:36 pm Post subject: |
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Sum, not meaning to derail your post but it made me think of the 7 deadly sins in Christianity and we can certainly look at Koran and Hadith to find examples where he fits into each category.
Envy
Gluttony
Greed
Lust
Pride
Sloth
Wrath |
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sum
Joined: 10 Jul 2005
Posts: 8527
Location: UK
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| Posted: Mon Dec 15, 2008 9:51 am Post subject: |
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Hello Chewchy
Muhammad knew that he had sinned, both in private and in public and also knew that he would continue sinning. He must have been aware of the things that he had done wrong but he did not mention what they were.
It is important that the muslims know what these sins were so that they do not repeat them as Muhammad is regarded as the perfect example for all mankind to follow for all time.
Muhammad was a sinner and so will the muslims tell what the sins were or what they think they might have been?
sum |
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Haik Monsieur
Joined: 17 Sep 2006
Posts: 2393
Location: FFI
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| Posted: Mon Dec 15, 2008 11:36 am Post subject: |
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| sum wrote: |
Hello Chewchy
Muhammad knew that he had sinned, both in private and in public and also knew that he would continue sinning. He must have been aware of the things that he had done wrong but he did not mention what they were.
It is important that the muslims know what these sins were so that they do not repeat them as Muhammad is regarded as the perfect example for all mankind to follow for all time.
Muhammad was a sinner and so will the muslims tell what the sins were or what they think they might have been?
sum |
Well dear sum, I had this question while I was a Muslim and the answer I got was "Muhammad was just teaching Muslim Ummah how to ask forgiveness to Allah and not because he sinned."
Let me say of the Masoom = Sinless nature of prophets according to Islam:
In Islam, all prophets are sinless. But some faults (they call it Zallat) will occur from them, yet Zallat's are not sins. Sin in Islam is doing something against Allah's teachings. So, Jonah did not sin because he was not doing anything against existing teachings of Allah. But Allah decreed against Jonah’s running away from his community as a sin after Jonah doing so, therefore Jonah did not disregard Allah and sinned likewise, but had to ask for forgiveness because of Allah’s later decree.
There is a chapter in Quran depicting an incident Muhammad turns down a blind man and later Allah reproaches him for that. Here turning down the blind is not a sin because it happened before Allah reproached and added it in the basket of sins. Muhammad didn't sin likewise just because the incident occurred prior to Allah admonishing it. An act becomes sin only after Allah’s decree on it.
Everything good and bad is tied to Allah’s approval in Islam. They construct their moral make up according to this. If something is allowed by Allah that is right and moral. Anything Allah prohibits is wrong and immoral. After all, Muslims can not have an independent sense of morality at all.
Regards
KhaliL
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sum
Joined: 10 Jul 2005
Posts: 8527
Location: UK
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| Posted: Mon Dec 15, 2008 1:55 pm Post subject: |
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Hello KhaliL
Many thanks for explaining the difference between zallat and sin.
Muhammad was a most crafty individual who did what he wanted first, although he knew was wrong and which people knew was dubious, and then, after he had got what he wanted claimed that he received a revelation telling him that the action that he had taken was now prohibited in the future!
He did what he wanted, got what he wanted and then locked the door behind him so that noone else could do the same without sinning and risking hell. Very clever.
I am still puzzled by the ahadith which uses the word "sin". If he did sin rather than zallat what was the sin? If he knew that he would sin in the future what sort of prophet was he?
sum |
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Hamad Al-Hasan
Joined: 15 Dec 2008
Posts: 81
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| Posted: Mon Dec 15, 2008 6:30 pm Post subject: |
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Dear sum,
The prophet (pbuh) was teaching the companions that prayer. But yet, still he (pbuh) prayed and asked for forgiveness. His wife Ayesha once asked him, why do you pray so much when Allah has already forgiven any sin you would have made?
The prophet justified, "Shouldn't I be thankful to my Lord?"
That is Muhammed (pbuh), the best human being who ever walked on this earth. |
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ixolite
Joined: 27 Jan 2006
Posts: 12939
Location: land of pork and beer
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| Posted: Mon Dec 15, 2008 6:33 pm Post subject: |
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| Hamad Al-Hasan wrote: |
Dear sum,
The prophet (pbuh) was teaching the companions that prayer. But yet, still he (pbuh) prayed and asked for forgiveness. His wife Ayesha once asked him, why do you pray so much when Allah has already forgiven any sin you would have made?
The prophet justified, "Shouldn't I be thankful to my Lord?"
That is Muhammed (pbuh), the best human being who ever walked on this earth. |
The best human being wouldn't have fucked a child (amongst all the other disgusting stuff Mohammad did).
Btw, stop screaming, we're not deaf.
_________________
</islam>
"Never argue with idiots. They bring you down to their level and then beat you with experience." - Goldthwait H. Dorr |
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sum
Joined: 10 Jul 2005
Posts: 8527
Location: UK
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| Posted: Mon Dec 15, 2008 6:37 pm Post subject: |
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Hello Hamad Al-Hasan
Welcome to FFI. I hope that you keep in touch and keep posting.
Muhammad actually admitted that he had sinned and would sin. Whether he taught others the prayer is debatable but what I would like to know is what were Muhammad`s sins. Do you know? Do you accept that Muhammad sinned?
sum |
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Hamad Al-Hasan
Joined: 15 Dec 2008
Posts: 81
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| Posted: Mon Dec 15, 2008 6:50 pm Post subject: |
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| ixolite wrote: |
The best human being wouldn't have fucked a child (amongst all the other disgusting stuff Mohammad did).
Btw, stop screaming, we're not deaf. |
In Arabia, and specially at the mid-ages, a 9-year-old isn't considered a child. You see, back then a 9-year-old is physically different that ones now. They were healthier and very mature.
My grandmother got married when she was 12, and I saw a painting of her at that time, believe it or not, she didn't look like a 12-year-old at all (in comparison with 12-year-olds now). But presently it is difficult to find this 'early marriage' in Arabia, because time has changed, poeple have changed. In my place, even an 18-year-old is considered a kid. Teenagers back then used to help their fathers with hunting, taking responsabilities, but nowadays they can't even arrange their beds. They can't even speak properly with poeple they disagree with.
I'd also like you to note that Ayesha had the chance to refuse the marriage. The prophet (pbuh) proposed to a number of women and they refused to marry him. So evidently, she could have refused the proposal if she finds her self too young for it, thus, if she accepted to get married at that age, who are we to object that?
Hope this helps. |
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Hamad Al-Hasan
Joined: 15 Dec 2008
Posts: 81
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| Posted: Mon Dec 15, 2008 6:56 pm Post subject: |
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| sum wrote: |
Hello Hamad Al-Hasan
Welcome to FFI. I hope that you keep in touch and keep posting.
Muhammad actually admitted that he had sinned and would sin. Whether he taught others the prayer is debatable but what I would like to know is what were Muhammad`s sins. Do you know? Do you accept that Muhammad sinned?
sum |
Hello sum,
Thank you for your kind welcome. Unfortunately my time is limited, so I hope I can serve you as much as possible.
Our prophet never had any sins in his entire life. He was teaching prayers to his companions as I said previously, nothing more nor less.
Hope this helps. |
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yeezevee
Joined: 17 Feb 2004
Posts: 17109
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| Posted: Mon Dec 15, 2008 7:15 pm Post subject: |
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| Hamad Al-Hasan says: My grandmother got married when she was 12, and I saw a painting of her at that time, believe it or not, she didn't look like a 12-year-old at all (in comparison with 12-year-olds now). |
welcome to ffi dear Hamad Al-Hasan..., that is a perfect response in defense of Prophet Muhammad's(PBUH) one of the marriages.., what is there in marriage?? 6-9-12-16-19 .. all woman are same. Fascinating personal story of your grand parents.. HOW OLD WAS YOUR GRAND FATHER?? How many children did he had before he married your grand mother when she was 12 year old., Any way..Please convey my best regards to your grand ma and grand Pa..
| Quote: |
| But presently it is difficult to find this 'early marriage' in Arabia, because time has changed, poeple have changed. In my place, even an 18-year-old is considered a kid. |
really? in what way?? you mean to say they are PHYSICALLY IMMATURE or Mentally immature?? You appears to know History of Arabia before Islam please write in to the forum to educate the readers as much as you can..
with best regards
yeezevee |
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sum
Joined: 10 Jul 2005
Posts: 8527
Location: UK
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| Posted: Mon Dec 15, 2008 7:19 pm Post subject: |
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Hello Hamad
Your quote -
His wife Ayesha once asked him, why do you pray so much when Allah has already forgiven any sin you would have made?
This confirms that Muhammad actually sinned. Muhammad did sin but muslims find that this is upsetting to acknowledge and so try to wriggle out of this predicament.
I am still curious to find out what his sins were. Can you ask your co-religionists if they know? Please ask your Imam to come to us to explain this matter.
sum |
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sword_of_truth
Joined: 12 Oct 2008
Posts: 255
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| Posted: Mon Dec 15, 2008 7:21 pm Post subject: |
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ixolite wrote:
The best human being wouldn't have f.cked a child (amongst all the other disgusting stuff Mohammad did).
Btw, stop screaming, we're not deaf.
In Arabia, and specially at the mid-ages, a 9-year-old isn't considered a child. You see, back then a 9-year-old is physically different that ones now. They were healthier and very mature.
My grandmother got married when she was 12, and I saw a painting of her at that time, believe it or not, she didn't look like a 12-year-old at all (in comparison with 12-year-olds now). But presently it is difficult to find this 'early marriage' in Arabia, because time has changed, poeple have changed. In my place, even an 18-year-old is considered a kid. Teenagers back then used to help their fathers with hunting, taking responsabilities, but nowadays they can't even arrange their beds. They can't even speak properly with poeple they disagree with.
I'd also like you to note that Ayesha had the chance to refuse the marriage. The prophet (pbuh) proposed to a number of women and they refused to marry him. So evidently, she could have refused the proposal if she finds her self too young for it, thus, if she accepted to get married at that age, who are we to object that? |
She had just started menstuating. That indicates that she was too young. Hips are not big enough to bear child. Imagine yourself giving birth with hips that are very narrow. This is well-known to be very risky for both mother and child. She was 9 years old. That is not just too young, but WAY too young. You also are just making a statement about them being different back then with no evidence.
In fact, there is no evidence. People back then were just people, with the virtually same DNA as we have today. Conditions may have been different, but that obviously isn't going to make 9 years old enough.
Using absurdity is not a good defense. Don't make yourself look foolish in front of the other readers.
Aisha wouldn't have known about the dangers, so her permission is irrelevent, as is the permission of any other young girl. |
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sum
Joined: 10 Jul 2005
Posts: 8527
Location: UK
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| Posted: Mon Dec 15, 2008 7:28 pm Post subject: |
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Hello Hamad
Your quote -
They were healthier and very mature.
Where did you get this information - have you a reference?
sum |
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Hamad Al-Hasan
Joined: 15 Dec 2008
Posts: 81
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| Posted: Mon Dec 15, 2008 7:32 pm Post subject: |
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Dear yeezevee,
Thank you for the welcome.
| Quote: |
| that is a perfect response in defense of Prophet Muhammad's(PBUH) one of the marriages.., what is there in marriage?? 6-9-12-16-19 .. all woman are same. Fascinating personal story of your grand parents.. HOW OLD WAS YOUR GRAND FATHER?? How many children did he had before he married your grand mother when she was 12 year old., Any way..Please convey my best regards to your grand ma and grand Pa.. |
I'm not making up any stories, I did not come here to lie. I was just giving out an example which is not too far from us. If you feel that I'm not being truthful, then I advise you to ignore my posts.
It is all bound to one's culture. The western culture does not agree with this type of marriages, however, other cultures allow it and find no problem with it. Arabs, Indians, Africans, etc, are actually having these marriages. Islam is for everyone and therefor, it should fit everybody regardless of their culture. Only if one's traditions conflict with the Islamic rules, then it must not be practiced. The rule is, once a female can get pregnant, she can get married. Period. It's her decision whether she wants to marry at 9 or 90.
Regarding your question about my grandfather, he was 20 when he married my grandmother.
| Quote: |
| really? in what way?? you mean to say they are PHYSICALLY IMMATURE or Mentally immature?? You appears to know History of Arabia before Islam please write in to the forum to educate the readers as much as you can.. |
Mentally immature. This applies to a lot of teenagers whether from Arabia or not. Ask your grandparents when they were teens what did they use to do? Generation after generation maturity becomes at a later and later age. This is a noticable fact and I'm sure you are aware of it.
Hope this helps. |
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