scoring points for the enemy

sword_of_truth · Joined: 12 Oct 2008 Posts: 255

I would just like to express my opinion that critics of Islam should strive to be truthful and not to make any unfair accusations. There is no need to exaggerate or twist the truth, as tempting as it may be. Islam can easily be refuted without any distortions. Whenever you make a false or unfair accusation, I believe that you are scoring points for the enemy. It is just as bad as creating propaganda for Islam.

To give a concrete example, I once heard of someone claiming the Quran contradicted itself because it said that everyone will die, while also making the claim that Jesus did not die. However, when the muslim who told me this story heard this, he had a ready response. Jesus is supposed to come back at the end of the world and then dies. This alleged contradiction only served to discredit the critics of Islam. They can use things like this to discredit our criticism and label all the critics as jokers. It reinforces their beliefs. It would be much harder for them to do this if people were more careful. Public criticism of Islam should be done with great care.

I just saw someone post something complaining that the Quran doesn't forbid honor killings. Last time I checked, that's just not a fair thing to say. It does forbid murder, especially for other muslims. I think the Islamic Scholars would mostly agree that honor killings are forbidden.

Ideally, I would like muslims to be unable to disagree with our facts, only the interpretation. Of course, they entitle themselves to their own facts, so that is only an ideal to strive for. If I criticize Islam for the amputation of hands as punishment for theft, muslims HAVE NO CHOICE but to defend this barbaric punishment. There can be no question about the facts.

If muslims delude themselves into denying fair accusations, then I wouldn't count it as "scoring points for the enemy". I would count that as them scoring points for themselves. Without self-deception, Islam would not be possible. Also, it is inevitable that we may make honest mistakes in our criticism. We should be very careful to avoid them, and quick to admit it if we do make a mistake.

What I've said so far should not be too controversial. However, I personally would take it a step further. I think it is not legitimate to accuse moderate muslims as being "the same" as the terrorists. I agree with Ali Sina, that there are no moderate muslims. Stoning, amputation, and death for apostates are all "mainstream". So, there is definitely no such thing as a moderate muslim. Approval of these monstrous punishments is a religious duty for every muslim. Hence, they are all dangerous religious fanatics, at least if they actually agree with "mainstream" Islam. I don't believe that most muslims are "potential terrorists", however.

Whether you like it or not, when you accuse everyday muslims of being terrorists, that will probably just discredit you in their eyes. It's just not fair to accuse people of crimes they are not guilty of. And it's unneccessary because they ARE guilty of other crimes, as I have pointed out. I will qualify that statement by saying I am open to the idea that "moderate" muslims are part of the problem because they make it easier for terrorists to operate. I think that's probably true. And I do think Islam is part of the problem, but not intentionally. It is part of the terrorism problem because it lends itself to being turned in that direction. Those same "out of context" quotes the muslims complain about are undoubtedly the ones that the terrorists are so fond of. So, I'm not sure "out of context" is such a good excuse. If it's so easy for critics to get these ot of context quotes, then why not a terrorist? So, yes, I think if Islam was really 100% innocent about terrorism, it would have been a little bit more clear about those "out of context" passages and what they meant.

And perhaps, the terrorists are right about Islam. I'm just not convinced of that at this point. But I don't think it matters that much. Islam, to most muslims, and to me, means mainstream Islam.

Why do I need to accuse them of being terrorists when they think I should be killed on account of my apostasy and criticism? That makes them already guilty of advocating murder without any need to make questionable claims about them being responsible for terrorism.

shoeshiner · Joined: 22 Feb 2006 Posts: 4684

Charlie Brown · Joined: 19 Oct 2008 Posts: 13 Location: London

I have been on the Yahoo Answers Board under "Ramadan" - they need people like you to "fight" the moderates on there lol. The brainwashing of these people is quite remarkable - you have to at least give them that.

yeezevee · Joined: 17 Feb 2004 Posts: 17109

sword_of_truth · Joined: 12 Oct 2008 Posts: 255

natural_person · Joined: 09 Oct 2007 Posts: 671 Location: USA

Two of the best answers on the Honor killing in islam

Dear m-mailk... Hmmm, so you say he was a better human then us. So marrying a child and f.cking her at the age of 9 makes him better? Telling fathers, brothers and uncles that killing a loved one because some asshole raped her is the right thing to do? I have nothing against everyone worshipping anyone or anything they believe in, but when they take advantage of those religious false beliefs and cause harm to the innocent and do it in the name of of their religion to hide behind it makes me sick... sick enough that when I get through those pearly gates, Im going to rape Muhammad himself to ashame him so that all his followers can stone him into hell.
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Many years ago, when I was a child, I heard a story of an "Honor killing" on the Apache Reservation. An Apache girl had been raped. Her brother and two uncles caught the man and took him to the desert. The rapist was never seen again, but it has been said that it took 5 days for him to die. No dishonor was ascribed to the girl, and much honor was given to her brother and uncles. They were never charged. That's the way it should be done, in my humble opinion.

If it's not islamic how come islam did't stop it after 1400 years of... islamic family values ? Other ingrained practices have been eliminated...

The appologists have blood on their hands.
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INTELLIGENT doesn't mean SMART...
SMART doesn't mean WISE... seek WISDOM

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