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Agnostic Indian
Joined: 30 Jul 2008
Posts: 208
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 Posted: Thu Dec 25, 2008 3:01 pm Post subject: |
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Atheism has one big odd against Humanity:
It cannot give one a single reason as to why should one be good to others!
Furthermore, when an atheist jumps into the 'evolution' bandwagon things get worse!
evolution/natural selection indicates the survival of the fittest.
Join the two facts above and you get what?
There's no darn God and the fittest shall survive
I wonder what argument do the atheists put forward to Muslims in favor of leaving Islam????
Because ironically the Islamist war cry is just a minor extension of the atheists' thought process:
There's no darn God[, but Allah] and the fittest[Islam] shall survive
Educate me if i am wrong |
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charleslemartel
Joined: 29 Nov 2007
Posts: 1071
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| Posted: Thu Dec 25, 2008 3:45 pm Post subject: |
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| Agnostic Indian wrote: |
Atheism has one big odd against Humanity:
It cannot give one a single reason as to why should one be good to others! |
1. Because I wish that others be good to me too?
2. It feels good?
3. It makes me feel accepted and likable to others and provides me with plenty of positive strokes in turn?
_________________
Happy New Year to Everyone
Fear is the most powerful emotional tool, it can turn off the areas of the brain responsible for rational thought.
Is that why Muslims can't be rational? |
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Rat_bytes
Joined: 22 Apr 2008
Posts: 539
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| Posted: Fri Dec 26, 2008 5:07 am Post subject: |
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| Agnostic Indian wrote: |
Atheism has one big odd against Humanity:
It cannot give one a single reason as to why should one be good to others!
Furthermore, when an atheist jumps into the 'evolution' bandwagon things get worse!
evolution/natural selection indicates the survival of the fittest.
Join the two facts above and you get what?
There's no darn God and the fittest shall survive |
"The Fittest" in evolutionary terms does not mean "physically strong", it means "most suited to survive in it's environment". A single human is physically weak compared to other animals, but a group of humans are unstoppable. It follows that a human's strength lies in it's pack, so it is extremely beneficial to make sure that everyone in the pack has a job to do and is taken care of properly. We are collectively "the fittest", but as we can see with our long history of warfare, groups of humans will compete with each other in order to gain control of [resources and land] or an [environmental niche] as it's known for other animals.
Our civilization makes certain parts of our instincts obsolete, as in when we see a group of children gang up against the weakest one. However, civilization itself could be seen as an evolutionary process, since it's definitely beneficial to our species for us to act in a civilized manner.
| Agnostic Indian wrote: |
| I wonder what argument do the atheists put forward to Muslims in favor of leaving Islam???? |
"Your own human nature is more forgiving and less violent than your false god Allah. Examine your religion closely and you will see that it suppresses your true nature by sexual repression and fear of violence and ostracism. Leave your religion and become your own master. Everyone must conceive of their own unique philosophy to live by, and you will know the degree of it's correctness by the benefits you bring to your species. The societies in which people are taught to think critically about everything are also the most peaceful and progressive societies."
You might argue that it's wrong for someone to have no higher authority than themselves, that not having a divine authority would make people automatically evil, but even having a god doesn't seem to stop a lot of people from being evil, does it? Evil people will do evil things, good people will do good things, but only a religious mindset can convince a good person to do evil things. Conversely, good atheists will be good, evil atheists will be evil, but it is a lot harder to convince a good atheist to do something evil because you can't threaten them with supernatural consequences - they are only accountable to themselves (and their loved ones obviously).
| Agnostic Indian wrote: |
Because ironically the Islamist war cry is just a minor extension of the atheists' thought process:
There's no darn God[, but Allah] and the fittest[Islam] shall survive
Educate me if i am wrong |
You couldn't be more wrong. There is no "atheist thought process" other than the lack of belief in one more god than everyone else. Saying there is an "atheist thought process" is like saying there is a "ice-cream disliker's thought process". You cannot describe the thought process of someone who does not like ice cream past them not liking ice cream. You can't even say WHY they don't like ice cream, there could be one of many reasons. Notice it's a lot easier to describe why someone would like ice cream rather than dislike it? That's because a positive suggests more about someone's motivation than a negative, it narrows the criteria.
Saying that there is a "muslim thought process" is a good example of this, since Muslims are a specific group of people who subscribe to a very specific and narrow set of beliefs and values. There are hundreds of pages of rules and philosophies that Muslims must follow, as opposed to a complete 0 for atheists. We are blank slates for our own thoughts, whereas religious people have had their thoughts installed for them without ever having a chance to think for themselves.
There are evil atheists, good atheists, selfish atheists, altruistic atheists, stupid atheists, genius atheists - none of them have anything in common except for the fact that they lack belief in a god.
_________________
The world holds two classes of men - intelligent men without religion, and religious men without intelligence. - Abu’l‐Ala al Ma’arri |
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BlackStaR
Joined: 22 Nov 2006
Posts: 1252
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| Posted: Sat Dec 27, 2008 2:01 am Post subject: |
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lacking belief in god is not something unlawful or unreasonable. It is the same as status and standards as a believer. One cannot prove the other wrong.
_________________
</islam> </MohaMutt- (SBUH)- Shoe Be Upon Him >
... I am the Chill in the air..... |
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kereng
Joined: 14 Jun 2007
Posts: 292
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| Posted: Sat Dec 27, 2008 9:14 pm Post subject: |
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| Agnostic Indian wrote: |
Atheism has one big odd against Humanity:
It cannot give one a single reason as to why should one be good to others!
Furthermore, when an atheist jumps into the 'evolution' bandwagon things get worse!
evolution/natural selection indicates the survival of the fittest. |
Man is a social animal and evolution prefers social animals that show social behaviour because they fit in the community.
| Agnostic Indian wrote: |
Join the two facts above and you get what?
There's no darn God and the fittest shall survive |
Who says "the fittest shall survive"?
We just see that the fittest do survive, if we like it or not. |
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ChabadMizrachi
Joined: 26 Dec 2008
Posts: 52
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| Posted: Sat Dec 27, 2008 9:47 pm Post subject: |
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| Agnostic Indian wrote: |
Atheism has one big odd against Humanity:
It cannot give one a single reason as to why should one be good to others!
Furthermore, when an atheist jumps into the 'evolution' bandwagon things get worse!
evolution/natural selection indicates the survival of the fittest.
Join the two facts above and you get what?
There's no darn God and the fittest shall survive
I wonder what argument do the atheists put forward to Muslims in favor of leaving Islam????
Because ironically the Islamist war cry is just a minor extension of the atheists' thought process:
There's no darn God[, but Allah] and the fittest[Islam] shall survive
Educate me if i am wrong |
I watched a documentary by a prominent Atheist on why be good if there is no G-d. It didnt make any sense to me at all and I believe belief in the Abrahamic G-d is central to our happiness and well being. Without belief in a G-d who intervenes in human affairs and punishes and rewards accordingly in an afterlife, the concept of ethics and morality goes out the window.
_________________
It is G-d who created you and me, and everything you see. To deny this is idiocy. How can complex life forms come into being by "chance", out of "nothingness"? EVILution is FALSE!!! It is STILL only a "theory", after 200 years. |
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Rat_bytes
Joined: 22 Apr 2008
Posts: 539
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| Posted: Sun Dec 28, 2008 3:01 am Post subject: |
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| ChabadMizrachi wrote: |
I watched a documentary by a prominent Atheist on why be good if there is no G-d. It didnt make any sense to me at all and I believe belief in the Abrahamic G-d is central to our happiness and well being. Without belief in a G-d who intervenes in human affairs and punishes and rewards accordingly in an afterlife, the concept of ethics and morality goes out the window. |
So you're telling me you would be an evil person if you lost your god concept? I guess that makes me a better person than you.
See, I don't have that problem. I don't need a supernatural reward/punishment system shoved down my throat to force me to be good to other people. I am good to others because it is beneficial to everyone if everyone is treated well, simple as that. It worries me when theists say that their god is the basis for all morality, because it makes me think that we've got a lot of psychotic people out there who are only held in check by the mind control of religion. Creepy.
_________________
The world holds two classes of men - intelligent men without religion, and religious men without intelligence. - Abu’l‐Ala al Ma’arri |
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Plexus
Joined: 20 Jan 2007
Posts: 125
Location: Australia
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| Posted: Sun Dec 28, 2008 4:48 am Post subject: |
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| Rat_bytes wrote: |
| ChabadMizrachi wrote: |
I watched a documentary by a prominent Atheist on why be good if there is no G-d. It didnt make any sense to me at all and I believe belief in the Abrahamic G-d is central to our happiness and well being. Without belief in a G-d who intervenes in human affairs and punishes and rewards accordingly in an afterlife, the concept of ethics and morality goes out the window. |
So you're telling me you would be an evil person if you lost your god concept? I guess that makes me a better person than you.
See, I don't have that problem. I don't need a supernatural reward/punishment system shoved down my throat to force me to be good to other people. I am good to others because it is beneficial to everyone if everyone is treated well, simple as that. It worries me when theists say that their god is the basis for all morality, because it makes me think that we've got a lot of psychotic people out there who are only held in check by the mind control of religion. Creepy. |
Ratbytes
It worries me too what hides behind their religious faith, one could ask what they'd be like without being told not to kill, rob or rape your next door neighbour. Instead of self realise and rise above primordial urge they hand their will and lives over to a medieval remedy and remain backward. |
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THHuxley_redux
Joined: 15 Jun 2008
Posts: 1248
Location: Denver, CO
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| Posted: Sun Dec 28, 2008 5:35 am Post subject: |
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| ChabadMizrachi wrote: |
| Without belief in a G-d who intervenes in human affairs and punishes and rewards accordingly in an afterlife, the concept of ethics and morality goes out the window. |
Please... could you elaborate? Given that ethics and morality of one form or another can be found in all cultures and across all of history, even in those nations that did not believe in the Abrahamic "God," connecting the dots between them seems, well, doubtful at best.
Why do you think that ethics and morality have any necessary connection to fear of a cosmic spanking by the Abrahamic "God?"
_________________
Nullius In Verba |
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Agnostic Indian
Joined: 30 Jul 2008
Posts: 208
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| Posted: Sun Dec 28, 2008 11:31 am Post subject: |
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| charleslemartel wrote: |
| Agnostic Indian wrote: |
Atheism has one big odd against Humanity:
It cannot give one a single reason as to why should one be good to others! |
1. Because I wish that others be good to me too?
2. It feels good?
3. It makes me feel accepted and likable to others and provides me with plenty of positive strokes in turn? |
all these are reqests/notions ..These aint the way the animal world behaves sans a hinge of morality !
Religion uses God as a hinge to instill these individual benefits to society at large |
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Agnostic Indian
Joined: 30 Jul 2008
Posts: 208
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| Posted: Sun Dec 28, 2008 11:48 am Post subject: |
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| Rat_bytes wrote: |
"The Fittest" in evolutionary terms does not mean "physically strong", it means "most suited to survive in it's environment". A single human is physically weak compared to other animals, but a group of humans are unstoppable. It follows that a human's strength lies in it's pack, so it is extremely beneficial to make sure that everyone in the pack has a job to do and is taken care of properly. We are collectively "the fittest", but as we can see with our long history of warfare, groups of humans will compete with each other in order to gain control of [resources and land] or an [environmental niche] as it's known for other animals.
Our civilization makes certain parts of our instincts obsolete, as in when we see a group of children gang up against the weakest one. However, civilization itself could be seen as an evolutionary process, since it's definitely beneficial to our species for us to act in a civilized manner. |
That is exactly what i said...Athiest have no right to critisize the Islamic way of life..as It's more evolution friendly(and animal like ) ..harems, Alpha male dominance ..you name it and it's there in Islam.
| Rat_bytes wrote: |
| You might argue that it's wrong for someone to have no higher authority than themselves, that not having a divine authority would make people automatically evil, but even having a god doesn't seem to stop a lot of people from being evil, does it? Evil people will do evil things, good people will do good things, but only a religious mindset can convince a good person to do evil things. Conversely, good atheists will be good, evil atheists will be evil, but it is a lot harder to convince a good atheist to do something evil because you can't threaten them with supernatural consequences - they are only accountable to themselves (and their loved ones obviously). |
I completely agree with your statement but it does not answer my question.
Why is the Atheist up in arms against Islam????
| Rat_bytes wrote: |
You couldn't be more wrong. There is no "atheist thought process" other than the lack of belief in one more god than everyone else. Saying there is an "atheist thought process" is like saying there is a "ice-cream disliker's thought process". You cannot describe the thought process of someone who does not like ice cream past them not liking ice cream. You can't even say WHY they don't like ice cream, there could be one of many reasons. Notice it's a lot easier to describe why someone would like ice cream rather than dislike it? That's because a positive suggests more about someone's motivation than a negative, it narrows the criteria.
Saying that there is a "muslim thought process" is a good example of this, since Muslims are a specific group of people who subscribe to a very specific and narrow set of beliefs and values. There are hundreds of pages of rules and philosophies that Muslims must follow, as opposed to a complete 0 for atheists. We are blank slates for our own thoughts, whereas religious people have had their thoughts installed for them without ever having a chance to think for themselves.
There are evil atheists, good atheists, selfish atheists, altruistic atheists, stupid atheists, genius atheists - none of them have anything in common except for the fact that they lack belief in a god. |
I couldn't be more right!
Not liking an ice-cream is a 'belief' formed by a first-hand or vicarious justification.
the often quoted 'lack of belief' is misunderstood by many.
There's no lack of belief ..It's rather an 'absolute belief' that God does not exist.
'lack of belief' indicates a non-serious investigation or another belief which obviates the need to investigate this one. |
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Agnostic Indian
Joined: 30 Jul 2008
Posts: 208
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| Posted: Sun Dec 28, 2008 11:54 am Post subject: |
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| kereng wrote: |
| Agnostic Indian wrote: |
Atheism has one big odd against Humanity:
It cannot give one a single reason as to why should one be good to others!
Furthermore, when an atheist jumps into the 'evolution' bandwagon things get worse!
evolution/natural selection indicates the survival of the fittest. |
Man is a social animal and evolution prefers social animals that show social behaviour because they fit in the community.
| Agnostic Indian wrote: |
Join the two facts above and you get what?
There's no darn God and the fittest shall survive |
Who says "the fittest shall survive"?
We just see that the fittest do survive, if we like it or not. |
a. rethink the roots of 'social animal' and you'll be surprised to know that you aint an atheist at-all!
b.Am taking the liberty of rephrasing your second statement from a muslims mind"
We see that Islam is growing and it will survive, if we like it or not |
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ixolite
Joined: 27 Jan 2006
Posts: 12939
Location: land of pork and beer
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| Posted: Sun Dec 28, 2008 12:02 pm Post subject: |
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| Agnostic Indian wrote: |
rethink the roots of 'social animal' and you'll be surprised to know that you aint an atheist at-all!
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Which religion do these apes have again?
http://www.faithfreedom.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=44100
_________________
</islam>
"Never argue with idiots. They bring you down to their level and then beat you with experience." - Goldthwait H. Dorr |
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Agnostic Indian
Joined: 30 Jul 2008
Posts: 208
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| Posted: Sun Dec 28, 2008 12:04 pm Post subject: |
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| Rat_bytes wrote: |
| ChabadMizrachi wrote: |
I watched a documentary by a prominent Atheist on why be good if there is no G-d. It didnt make any sense to me at all and I believe belief in the Abrahamic G-d is central to our happiness and well being. Without belief in a G-d who intervenes in human affairs and punishes and rewards accordingly in an afterlife, the concept of ethics and morality goes out the window. |
So you're telling me you would be an evil person if you lost your god concept? I guess that makes me a better person than you.
See, I don't have that problem. I don't need a supernatural reward/punishment system shoved down my throat to force me to be good to other people. I am good to others because it is beneficial to everyone if everyone is treated well, simple as that. It worries me when theists say that their god is the basis for all morality, because it makes me think that we've got a lot of psychotic people out there who are only held in check by the mind control of religion. Creepy. |
Atheism is an individualistic belief(or 'lack of belief' as many here say[though i disagree]).Morality is a 'group' notion.
Individual tangents almost always fail to make a coherent circle until they are tethered to a center
Although, i do believe that the reward/punishment and personal God theories of the theists are non-sellable in our times.They'll have to come up with something new ;-) |
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Agnostic Indian
Joined: 30 Jul 2008
Posts: 208
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| Posted: Sun Dec 28, 2008 12:09 pm Post subject: |
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These Chimps follow Islam.Here's How:
their doctrine says.
1. Verily the monkeys are unclean, kill them wherever you find them.
2.The fattest chimp you see on the tree..That's muhammed ..He may keep as many wives he can.Allah said so in sura-a-e-fuq
3.Soon in the entire jungle ..there'd be just chimps and religion would be of the chimps.
more if that doesn't convince you
If a devout muslim jingoist sees my clarification above, soon you'd find the mullahs claiming that even the first Chimp was a Muslim! :-)) |
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