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Richard_The _Lionheart
Joined: 07 Sep 2004
Posts: 6166
Location: England
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 Posted: Sat Dec 11, 2004 2:41 am Post subject: |
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From this link
http://www.bismikaallahuma.org/Muhammad/bible-epileptics.htm
> 6. He would suddenly fall down or lie down
In Abraham's psychotic vision, he "fell face down" on the ground (Genesis 17:3).
Would this be the Muslim prophet Ibrahim who built the Kaaba? Thanks for admitting all your prophets are all mental !
And in a final answer to that website:
Now, I anxiously await the judgment of the Christian-Zionists on the Old Testament Prophets since their prophetic experience turns out to be a mirror image of that of the Prophet Muhammad(P).
How about awaiting the judgment from a non-biblical non-koranic Humanist?
And here it is:
Yes they were all mentally ill, thank you for accepting it.  |
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menjalara
Joined: 10 Dec 2004
Posts: 220
Location: AL-KUFRU MILAATUN WAHIDAH
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| Posted: Sat Dec 11, 2004 2:48 am Post subject: |
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| Richard_The _Lionheart wrote: |
Would this be the Muslim prophet Ibrahim who built the Kaaba? Thanks for admitting all your prophets are all mental ! |
I believe that link u refer to is intended for Christian Zionists who believe in the Prophets Abraham, David, Solomon right until Jesus, peace be upon him. The author has made it very clear...
| Quote: |
| How about awaiting the judgment from a non-biblical non-koranic Humanist? |
Sorry but your "judgement" does not count. Why not let us all stick to the topic of the so-called allegation of the Prophet Muhammad (PBUH) suffering from Temporal Lobe Epilepsy?  Minor diversions like this are hillarious, but apart from the topic here, I am not interested at other issues at the moment. Sorry.
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Bukan Islam Liberal |
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Hector
Joined: 24 May 2004
Posts: 7144
Location: Astroistan
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| Posted: Sat Dec 11, 2004 2:53 am Post subject: |
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Menj,
I've read your article, and I must say it is the second-most wackiest article I've read. The wackiest article I've read is your silly article about Aisha's supposed puberty which you provided not a shred of evidence except for a picture of a 9-year-old Thai girl (who's not Aisha). Don't you know what a red herring is? Well, for your information that 9-year-old Thai girl is a red herring.
But I'm digressing. So, let's get back to your wacky article about Muhammad's epilepsy. I'll now proceed to take it apart. Your article must be the "Best Writing By A Moron Who Provides no Evidence to Substantiate his Case"!
http://www.bismikaallahuma.org/Muhammad/epilepsy.htm
| Menj wrote: |
The Prophet Muhammad(P) and the Slander of Epilepsy
Mohd Elfie Nieshaem Juferi
Introduction |
Even your start is flawed. The "slander of epilepsy" is a clear lie.
| Menj wrote: |
It is well-known that the polemics of the Christian missionaries and Orientalists where the character of the Prophet(P) ranges from the totally ludicrous to an outright lie and blasphemy.
One such polemic is with regard to the allegation that the Prophet(P) suffered from epilepsy. This charge on the Internet is spearheaded by one Dr. Herman H. Somers, who claims that the symptoms of the disease were all present in the Prophet(P) because he used to lose consciousness, perspire, fall into convulsions and sputter. After recovering from such seizures, the claim continues, the Prophet(P) would then recite to the believers what he then claimed to be a revelation from God, whereas that was only an after-effect of the epileptic fits which he suffered. |
The usual Islamist mouthing off.
| Menj wrote: |
Needless to mention, this allegation is not a new one, and has been addressed in the past by various Muslim scholars and intellectuals. In this general examination of this allegation, however, we seek to exonerate the Prophet(P) from this ludicrous charge, insha'allah. In this endeavour we have adapted the writings of M.H. Haykal, which we feel sufficiently addresses and refutes the charge. Additional elaboration of our own, in order to elucidate Haykal's answer to the allegation of epilepsy, will be provided in the Notes & References section.
See: "Epileptic Symptoms" In The Biblical Prophets?
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So you've done nothing original. Just copied someone else's work. Why am I not surprised?
| Menj wrote: |
The Slander of Epilepsy[1]
To represent the phenomenon of Muhammad's(P) revelations in these terms is, from the standpoint of scientific research, the gravest nonsense. The fit of epilepsy leaves the patient utterly without memory of what has taken place. In fact, the patient completely forgets that period of his life and can recollect nothing that has happened to him in the meantime because the processes of sensing and thinking come to a complete stop during the fit. Such are the symptoms of epilepsy as science has established them. |
Do you have any proof that this is really what Science has established regarding memory loss and epilepsy? Please be aware there are several types of epilepsy. The usual 6 are: Grand mal epilepsy - causing grand mal seizures; Petit mal epilepsy - causing petit mal seizures; Temporal lobe epilepsy; Focal epilepsy; Jacksonian seizures; and Status epilepticus.
However, some medical specialists list 15:
Febrile Seizures
Benign Rolandic Epilepsy
Childhood Absence Epilepsy
Juvenile Absence Epilepsy
Juvenile Myoclonic Epilepsy
Infantile Spasms
Lennox-Gastaut Syndrome
Reflex Epilepsies
Temporal Lobe Epilepsy
Frontal Lobe Epilepsy
Progressive Myoclonic Epilepsies
Mitochondrial Disorders
Landau-Kleffner Syndrome
Rasmussen's Syndrome
Hypothalamic Hamartoma
Which one are you talking about?
Did you know that hallucinations is common for some types? I suggest you check out the Temporal Lobe Epilepsy. Seems to me this might explain Mo's hallucinations about seeing the Angel Jibril and his ridiculous Quran, especially if he had lateral temporal neocortex epilepsy.
I think Mo might also have had an occipital lobe seizure, or seizures arising from the fusiform or the inferior temporal gyrus, because of his visual hallucinations.
Also, some people are FULLY CONSCIOUS AND AWARE during Frontal Lobe Epilepsy. How does this fact sit with your lie about epilepsy patients losing all memory, sensing and thinking during the seizure phase?
See, in the first paragraph after the introduction, I found you're telling lies already.
Since I've caught you telling lies so early, I am not bothered to trawl through your article line by line, but will concentrate on the 'science' of epilepsy.
| Menj wrote: |
Muhammad(P) used to remember with utmost precision what he received by way of revelation and recited it to his companions without a flaw. Moreover, revelation was not always accompanied by paroxysms of the body. Much of it took place while the Prophet(P) was perfectly conscious, during his usual wakefulness...
Scientific investigation therefore reveals that the case of Muhammad(P) was not one of epilepsy. |
Hah, I've already shown this to be a lie. Some epilepsy patients have full cognitive abilities even through their seizure phase.
Scientific investigation? What scientific investigation? All you've written so far is dawaganda, not science. What you've written is not even fit to line the dustbin of a science laboratory. Maybe a scientist might condescend to wipe his arse with your article but that's as close to science as your article will get.
| Menj wrote: |
| A consultation of medical literature would have quickly exposed the errors of the Orientalists, deliberate or accidental, and convinced them that in an epileptic fit all the intellectual and spiritual processes come to an absolute stop. |
Please provide these 'medical literature'. I doubt they exist.
| Menj wrote: |
| When in a fit, the epileptic patient is either in a ridiculously mechanical state of motion or on a rampage injurious to his fellow men. He is utterly unconscious, unknowing of what he himself does, or of what happens to him, very much like the somnambulant who has no control over his movements during his sleep and who cannot remember them when he wakes up. A very great difference separates an epileptic fit from a revelation in which an intense and penetrating consciousness establishes, in full knowledge and conviction, a contact with the supernal plenum that enables the prophet to report and convey his revelation. Epilepsy, on the other hand, stops cognition. It reduces its patient to a mechanical state devoid of either feeling or sensation.[2] |
Is this the medical science you're talking about that proves Muhammad didn't have epilepsy?
Look at your reference: [2] - The Qur'anic Phenomenon (Islamic Book Trust, 1991), p. 77.
I'd be more impressed if you went to a medical textbook to get your facts, Menj. But instead, you went to an Islamist dawaganda book. How 'medical' is that? In fact, there is NO reference to any medical literature to back up your article. Readers: look at the references Menj provided at the bottom of his article. Pathetic, isn't it?
| Menj wrote: |
| Science may eventually reach some of these truths and discover the secrets and laws of the universe. |
Yeah right, like the 'so-called' science you used in your miserable and failed attempt to prove Muhammad didn't have epilepsy.
Looking forward to discuss epilepsy and memory loss with you,
Hector.
_________________
What sort of man would f*ck a sweet little prepubescent nine-year-old child who liked playing with dolls and swings? Mo the demon Pedophile.
Last edited by Hector on Sat Dec 11, 2004 3:11 am; edited 2 times in total |
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Richard_The _Lionheart
Joined: 07 Sep 2004
Posts: 6166
Location: England
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| Posted: Sat Dec 11, 2004 3:04 am Post subject: |
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| menjalara wrote: |
| I believe that link u refer to is intended for Christian Zionists who believe in the Prophets Abraham, David, Solomon right until Jesus, peace be upon him. The author has made it very clear... |
Yes, because they’d shy away from finding out those people were mad too.
Humanists who do not believe in the Koran/Bible (or any fairy story) will not shy away from it because it validates our theory of their madness.
| menjalara wrote: |
| Sorry but your "judgement" does not count. |
Give me one good reason it doesn’t count?
| menjalara wrote: |
| Why not let us all stick to the topic of the so-called allegation of the Prophet Muhammad (PBUH) suffering from Temporal Lobe Epilepsy? |
We are doing, your website link doesn’t disprove it. In fact by providing Biblical references to mental illness you’ve actually confirmed it.
| menjalara wrote: |
| Minor diversions like this are hillarious, but apart from the topic here, I am not interested at other issues at the moment. Sorry. |
We are sticking to the issue; Mohammed and everyone else who declare to be in contact with “God” suffered a form mental illness. |
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jim
Joined: 18 Jul 2004
Posts: 179
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| Posted: Sat Dec 11, 2004 4:58 am Post subject: |
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I Know mo must have had some sort of disease epliepsy seems to fit the case however and plz correct me if im wrong is it not true that epilepsey gets worse as the person gets older and makes them unable to function normally while Mo was leading raids etc..
Last edited by jim on Sat Dec 11, 2004 4:59 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Hector
Joined: 24 May 2004
Posts: 7144
Location: Astroistan
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| Posted: Sat Dec 11, 2004 5:09 am Post subject: |
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| jim wrote: |
| I Know mo must have had some sort of disease epliepsy seems to fit the case however and plz correct me if im wrong is it not true that epilepsey gets worse as the person gets older and makes them unable to function normally while Mo was leading raids etc.. |
While you are correct that epilepsy does tend to get worse as one gets older (i.e. experiences more seizures), the prognosis really depends on the brain lesion, the type of epilepsy and the severity of seizures. In fact, epilepsy in older people is very common.
So there is nothing unusual about an epileptic leading a more or less normal life into old age. Muhammad's death at age 60 or so and his nefarious activities and super-stud sexual ability are NOT INCONSISTENT with epilepsy.
_________________
What sort of man would f*ck a sweet little prepubescent nine-year-old child who liked playing with dolls and swings? Mo the demon Pedophile.
Last edited by Hector on Sat Dec 11, 2004 5:14 am; edited 1 time in total |
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TheOtherWhiteMeat
Joined: 23 Sep 2004
Posts: 1741
Location: Dar Al-Harb
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| Posted: Sat Dec 11, 2004 10:01 am Post subject: |
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So the Mawzlem explanation was? All Prophets fall to the ground and jitterbug? I can buy that. I think we've all just said all the ancient 'seers' were fruitflies.
_________________
A voice from heaven should be ignored if it is not on the side of justice. ~ Isaac Bashevis Singer
It wasn't you who killed them, it was Allah. ~ 8:17 |
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farside
Joined: 16 Feb 2004
Posts: 439
Location: The Other Side
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| Posted: Sat Dec 11, 2004 5:16 pm Post subject: |
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 Back to the FFI Forum, Menj (a.k.a menjalara)!
It’s good to here from you again!
By the way, have you renounced your U.S. citizenship? 
It’s my understanding that Malaysia  does not recognize dual nationalities. source
Kind Regards,
Farside  |
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Dan-Cannon
Joined: 19 Feb 2004
Posts: 3144
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| Posted: Sat Dec 11, 2004 5:31 pm Post subject: |
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Is Menjalara the same Menj as "Menj the Cyber-stalker" ???
If so, should he have another chance at the risk of divulging more information about members?
_________________
Islam is anti-infidel, therefor i am anti-Islam. - Dan Cannon.
I am the greatest minority in the world: an individual. - David Gulbraa. |
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Hector
Joined: 24 May 2004
Posts: 7144
Location: Astroistan
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| Posted: Sun Dec 12, 2004 7:55 am Post subject: |
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| Dan-Cannon wrote: |
Is Menjalara the same Menj as "Menj the Cyber-stalker" ???
If so, should he have another chance at the risk of divulging more information about members? |
I don't think one can definitely prove this, but I personally think MENJalara is MENJ because they share common traits:
1. They both hate Murtad Mama with a passion - bordering on psychological pathology.
2. They both hate the present Malaysian Prime Minister, Abdullah Badawi, aka Pak Lah.
3. They both hate a blogger named Rajan Rishyakaran.
4. They both display deeeeeeep knowledge of useless obscure hadith facts.
5. They are delusional about bismika allahuma being the antz pantz.
6. They both sign off with "Have a nice day".
Coincidence? Maybe at the level of at least 4 to 5 standard deviations.
I do hope MENJalara stays awhile. We're yet to get down to our in-depth discussion about Mo's epilepsy.
_________________
What sort of man would f*ck a sweet little prepubescent nine-year-old child who liked playing with dolls and swings? Mo the demon Pedophile.
Last edited by Hector on Sun Dec 12, 2004 7:59 am; edited 1 time in total |
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farside
Joined: 16 Feb 2004
Posts: 439
Location: The Other Side
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| Posted: Sun Dec 12, 2004 2:04 pm Post subject: |
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| Hector wrote: |
| 3. They both hate a blogger named Rajan Rishyakaran. |
Who is Rajan Rishyakaran? Perhaps we can invite him to the FFI forum. 
Kind Regards,
Farside |
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menjalara
Joined: 10 Dec 2004
Posts: 220
Location: AL-KUFRU MILAATUN WAHIDAH
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| Posted: Mon Dec 13, 2004 4:08 am Post subject: |
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| Hector wrote: |
I don't think one can definitely prove this, but I personally think MENJalara is MENJ because they share common traits:
3. They both hate a blogger named Rajan Rishyakaran.
4. They both display deeeeeeep knowledge of useless obscure hadith facts.
5. They are delusional about bismika allahuma being the antz pantz.
6. They both sign off with "Have a nice day". |
I didn't know its a crime to sign off with "Have a nice day". Shall I wish you something else instead? 
As for Rajan, I have been banned from his blog for mocking his use of atrocious Malay  However, to the best of my knowledge, MENJ is still alive and kicking and wreaking havoc across Rajan's blog. Now how can Menjalara and MENJ be one the same person when one is baneed and the other is not 
| Quote: |
| I do hope MENJalara stays awhile. We're yet to get down to our in-depth discussion about Mo's epilepsy. |
Please, I am tired of this comparision and assumption that MENJ and Menjalara is one and the same. "Menjalara" is the name of a Malaysian town (Bandar Sri Menjalara) in the Kuala Lumpur Metropolis area. It also happens to be the name of the First Prime Minister's mom. I would think that a simple search on Google would clarify this. Now what's next? Are you going to accuse Menjalara of being a walking, talking TOWN? Or that I am a living Reincarnation of the Tunku's dead mom, Chek Menjalara?
Will continue with our little chat on "epilepsy" tomorrow, since I have errands to do now. Have a lousy day!
_________________
Bukan Islam Liberal
Last edited by menjalara on Mon Dec 13, 2004 4:09 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Hector
Joined: 24 May 2004
Posts: 7144
Location: Astroistan
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| Posted: Mon Dec 13, 2004 4:16 am Post subject: |
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| menjalara wrote: |
| Hector wrote: |
I don't think one can definitely prove this, but I personally think MENJalara is MENJ because they share common traits:
3. They both hate a blogger named Rajan Rishyakaran.
4. They both display deeeeeeep knowledge of useless obscure hadith facts.
5. They are delusional about bismika allahuma being the antz pantz.
6. They both sign off with "Have a nice day". |
I didn't know its a crime to sign off with "Have a nice day". Shall I wish you something else instead? |
I never said it was a crime. All I said was it's coincidental that both you and MENJ both signed off with 'Have a nice day.' Now, it's not an uncommon throw-away line, particularly with Americans. In fact, I think it's something Americans are very good at, particularly the low-wage fast-food providers.
| MENJalara wrote: |
| As for Rajan, I have been banned from his blog for mocking his use of atrocious Malay However, to the best of my knowledge, MENJ is still alive and kicking and wreaking havoc across Rajan's blog. Now how can Menjalara and MENJ be one the same person when one is baneed and the other is not |
But he did also wonder if MENJalara and MENJ are the same person - seeing that one likes to defend/glorify the other. But not knowing Rajan, I cannot comment as to why he only banned one and not the other, but I think it has something to do with some 'inappropriate' posts. Care to enlighten us?
As for MENJ wreaking havoc, the only havoc he's wreaking is in his own mind, and yours apparently.
| MENJalara wrote: |
| Quote: |
| I do hope MENJalara stays awhile. We're yet to get down to our in-depth discussion about Mo's epilepsy. |
Please, I am tired of this comparision and assumption that MENJ and Menjalara is one and the same. "Menjalara" is the name of a Malaysian town (Bandar Sri Menjalara) in the Kuala Lumpur Metropolis area. It also happens to be the name of the First Prime Minister's mom. I would think that a simple search on Google would clarify this. Now what's next? Are you going to accuse Menjalara of being a walking, talking TOWN? Or that I am a living Reincarnation of the Tunku's dead mom, Chek Menjalara? |
Thanks for enlightening us on some useless facts. Who gives a **** about all this? Have I assumed you are MENJ merely because of the similarities in nicks? No.
| MENJalara wrote: |
| Will continue with our little chat on "epilepsy" tomorrow, since I have errands to do now. Have a lousy day! |
I'm looking forward to see you defend the article you put up, MENJ. Next time, please provide evidence to back up what you claim. And remember that dawaganda books are not medical literature.
_________________
What sort of man would f*ck a sweet little prepubescent nine-year-old child who liked playing with dolls and swings? Mo the demon Pedophile.
Last edited by Hector on Mon Dec 13, 2004 4:16 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Rajan R
Joined: 13 Dec 2004
Posts: 4
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| Posted: Mon Dec 13, 2004 6:03 am Post subject: |
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| menjalara wrote: |
| As for Rajan, I have been banned from his blog for mocking his use of atrocious Malay |
You were banned from my site for being a Grammar Nazi. My English, depending on who you ask, is just about as bad as my Malay (and judging my Malay from a impromptu blog rant, that isn't even proof read, after a lull of 6 months of not writing any Malay essays - yeah, you're a good judge).
Ironically, on your new blog, you have used Malay that would make any BM teacher cringe - "Ayah aku tinggal handset kat ofis, jadi mata air jerr la yang ada". Great Malay there, menjalara. Bet you have that Edisi Keempat Kamus Dewan with new entries for "ofis","handset", etc..
| menjalara wrote: |
| However, to the best of my knowledge, MENJ is still alive and kicking and wreaking havoc across Rajan's blog. |
There is only one person that thinks Menj is wreaking havoc across my blog: Menj. And since you started writing in English, it is quite plain to see that you're Menj, or at least a fanatical fan, mimicking his every writing style that it verges on being unhealthy. But quite frankly I rather see MENJ stay on my blog - debating with him becomes so much easier since he started making stupid faux pas like that one on all Israeli children above the age of 12 are legitimate targets.
| menjalara wrote: |
| Now how can Menjalara and MENJ be one the same person when one is baneed and the other is not |
Because I banned the nick menjalara. It would be pretty hard to ban a person from commenting in my website - one can only ban an IP address or a nick.
| menjalara wrote: |
| Please, I am tired of this comparision and assumption that MENJ and Menjalara is one and the same. "Menjalara" is the name of a Malaysian town (Bandar Sri Menjalara) in the Kuala Lumpur Metropolis area. It also happens to be the name of the First Prime Minister's mom. I would think that a simple search on Google would clarify this. Now what's next? Are you going to accuse Menjalara of being a walking, talking TOWN? Or that I am a living Reincarnation of the Tunku's dead mom, Chek Menjalara? |
How 'bout we just accuse you of being Menj? Since it is very unlikely you named yourself after a "town" (BSM a town? USJ14 is also a town, I guess) or the mother of Malaysia's first prime minister which can be remembered as being a secular.
P.S. Thanks to Farside987 for pointing this forum thread out.
Last edited by Rajan R on Mon Dec 13, 2004 6:05 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Myrddin Emrys
Joined: 28 Dec 2004
Posts: 1908
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| Posted: Thu Dec 30, 2004 5:03 pm Post subject: |
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Interesting stuff about the epilepsy. I'm a psychiatric nurse by trade and have cared for many sufferers of this malady and take it from me that not all epileptics lose consciousness and cognitive ability during an episode. In fact, depending on the focal point of the seizure, symptomolgy can be widely variable. I have witnessed first hand many descriptions of vivid hallucinations. Of particular note is the phenomenon known as the 'Aura'. This state of heightened sensual awareness often precedes a seizure and can act as a warning sign to those epileptics with insight. One epileptic described how he sees colours and patterns in extreme detail - an almost surrealistic experience for him. Another would describe a particular smell that preceeds an attack, whilst another felt he was floating out of his body.
I have also had the pleasure of meeting many hypermanic clients who claimed to be Jesus Christ and one manic asian gent who swore blind he was uncle mo himself!
_________________
People will believe anything because they either fear it is true, or because they want to believe it is true.
Wizard's First Rule, courtesy of Terry Goodkind from the Sword of Truth novels.
Last edited by Myrddin Emrys on Thu Dec 30, 2004 7:57 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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