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yeezevee
Joined: 17 Feb 2004
Posts: 17109
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 Posted: Mon Dec 22, 2008 1:10 pm Post subject: |
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parvez_mushtaq is hitting yeezevee with a stick AND HE IS RIGHT.
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dear yeez
pl read before you comment on any thing, if not two/three pages before at least read the post which you are going make your comment on |
that is true I have not read much of what you wrote in this thread neither your post..except those HIGHLIGHTED RED COLORED WORDS dear parvez..
So., what would you if you come across some thing like this discussed at this link http://www.faithfreedom.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=60622 in your life WITH YOUR NEAR & DEAR??
with best wishes
yeezevee |
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parvez_mushtaq
Joined: 04 Jul 2008
Posts: 265
Location: india
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| Posted: Mon Dec 22, 2008 1:35 pm Post subject: |
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| yeezevee wrote: |
parvez_mushtaq is hitting yeezevee with a stick AND HE IS RIGHT.
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dear yeez
pl read before you comment on any thing, if not two/three pages before at least read the post which you are going make your comment on |
that is true I have not read much of what you wrote in this thread neither your post..except those HIGHLIGHTED RED COLORED WORDS dear parvez..
So., what would you if you come across some thing like this discussed at this link http://www.faithfreedom.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=60622 in your life WITH YOUR NEAR & DEAR??
with best wishes
yeezevee |
seems the father of that kid had read exodus 21-7, yeez
exodus 21 - 7
And if a man sell his daughter to be a maidservant, she shall not go out as the menservants do.
and decided that your jesus will save him if not Islam
_________________
006.108
YUSUFALI: Revile not ye those whom they call upon besides Allah, lest they out of spite revile Allah in their ignorance. ...... |
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yeezevee
Joined: 17 Feb 2004
Posts: 17109
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| Posted: Mon Dec 22, 2008 2:49 pm Post subject: |
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yeezevee gives a news link to AN ARABIAN MUSLIM in 21st century
and Indian non-Muslim/NOMINAL MUSLIM parvez_mushtaq comes out with BEFORE CHRIST EXODUS.. lol.. good..and says
| Quote: |
seems the father of that kid had read exodus 21-7, yeez
exodus 21 - 7
And if a man sell his daughter to be a maidservant, she shall not go out as the menservants do.
and decided that your jesus will save him if not Islam |
What did Jesus Christ do here dear parvez_mushtaq?? and why only Exodus? we also have Genesis, Leviticus., Torah, Tanakh, Deuteronomy and what not..., They can not beat our Q'uran.. could they? The prophet of those books can not beat Prophet Muhammad(PBUH).. Can they??
Any way what about Exdous 21-7? I hope you know that Exodus is the 2nd book of the Jewish Torah and of the Christian OT. What is there in it? It is just a story of how Moses leads the Israelites out of Egypt and through the wilderness to the Mount Sinai. So what is there in Exdous 21-7?? read whole chapter dear parvez_mushtaq.,
| Quote: |
EXODUS CHAPTER 21
1 Now these are the ordinances which thou shalt set before them. 2 If thou buy a Hebrew servant, six years he shall serve; and in the seventh he shall go out free for nothing. 3 If he come in by himself, he shall go out by himself; if he be married, then his wife shall go out with him. 4 If his master give him a wife, and she bear him sons or daughters; the wife and her children shall be her master's, and he shall go out by himself. 5 But if the servant shall plainly say: I love my master, my wife, and my children; I will not go out free; 6 then his master shall bring him unto a God, and shall bring him to the door, or unto the door-post; and his master shall bore his ear through with an awl; and he shall serve him for ever. p. 90
7 And if a man sell his daughter to be a maid-servant, she shall not go out as the men-servants do. 8 If she please not her master, who hath espoused her to himself, then shall he let her be redeemed; to sell her unto a foreign people he shall have no power, seeing he hath dealt deceitfully with her. 9 And if he espouse leer unto his son, he shall deal with her after the manner of daughters. 10 If he take him another wife, her food, her raiment, and her conjugal rights, shall he not diminish. 11 And if he do not these three unto her, then shall she go out for nothing, without money.
12 He that smiteth a man, so that he dieth, shall surely be put to death. 13 And if a man lie not in wait, but God cause it to come to hand; then I will appoint thee a place whither he may flee.
14 And if a man come presumptuously upon his neighbour, to slay him with guile; thou shalt take him from Mine altar, that he may die.
15 And he that smiteth his father, or his mother, shall be surely put to death.
16 And he that stealeth a man, and selleth him, or if he be found in his hand, he shall surely be put to death.
17 And he that curseth his father or his mother, shall surely be put to death.
18 And if men contend, and one smite the other with a stone, or with his fist, and he die not, but keep his bed; 19 if he rise again, and walls abroad upon his staff, then shall he that smote him be quit; only he shall pay for the loss of his time, and shall cause him to be thoroughly healed.
20 And if a man smite his bondman, or his bondwoman, with a rod, and he die under his hand, he shall surely be punished. 21 Notwithstanding, if he continue a day or two, he shall not be punished; for he is his money.
22 And if men strive together, and hurt a woman with child, so that her fruit depart, and yet no harm follow, he shall be surely fined, according as the woman's husband shall lay upon him; and he shall pay as the judges determine. 23 But if any harm follow, then thou shalt give life for life, 24 eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot, 25 burning for burning, wound for wound, stripe for stripe.
26 And if a man smite the eye of his bondman, or the eye of his bondwoman, and destroy it, he shall let him go free. for his eye's sake. 27 And if he smite out his bondman's tooth, or his bond: woman's tooth, he shall let him go free for his tooth's sake.
28 And if an ox gore a man or a woman, that they die, the ox shall be surely stoned, and its flesh shall not be eaten; but the owner of the ox shall be quit. 29 But if the ox was wont to gore in time past, and warning hath been given to its owner, and he hath not kept it in, but it hath killed a man or a woman; the ox shall be stoned, and its owner also shall be put to death. 30 If there be laid on him a ransom, then he shall give for the redemption of his life whatsoever is laid upon him. 31 Whether it have gored a son, or have gored a daughter, according to this judgment shall it be done unto him. 32 If the ox gore a bondman or a bondwoman, he shall give unto their master thirty shekels of silver, and the ox shall be stoned.
33 And if a man shall open a pit, or if a man shall dig a pit and not cover it, and an ox or an ass fall therein, 34 the owner of the pit shall make it good; he shall give money unto the p. 91 owner of them, and the dead beast shall be his.
35 And if one man's ox hurt another's, so that it dieth; then they shall sell the live ox, and divide the price of it; and the dead also they shall divide. 36 Or if it be known that the ox was wont to gore in time past, and its owner hath not kept it in; he shall surely pay ox for ox, and the dead beast shall be his own.
37 If a man steal an ox, or a sheep, and kill it, or sell it, he shall pay five oxen for an ox, and four sheep for a sheep. |
So what is the problem with that 21.7 dear parvez
| Quote: |
| 21. 7 to 21.11:.... And if a man sell his daughter to be a maid-servant, she shall not go out as the men-servants do. 8 If she please not her master, who hath espoused her to himself, then shall he let her be redeemed; to sell her unto a foreign people he shall have no power, seeing he hath dealt deceitfully with her. 9 And if he espouse leer unto his son, he shall deal with her after the manner of daughters. 10 If he take him another wife, her food, her raiment, and her conjugal rights, shall he not diminish. 11 And if he do not these three unto her, then shall she go out for nothing, without money. |
You mean to say Muhammad following Muslims Copied all that which was there before the birth of Mr. PBUH?? Aftre all he himself had that 9 year old little girl.. Don't do That WHAT PROPHET MUHAMMAD DID 1400 years back or what that Arabian FOOL did in Saudi Arabia in the last month. Your country India has different rules on top of it It is NOT an Islamic country unlike its left and right cousins. In fact not only in India, any where in the subcontinent doing such acts is CRIMINAL and they will prosecute you.. We got to move on dear parvez .. we got to grow out of 7th century..
And we have to realize and see the difference between the word of ALLAH and PARABLES of OLD religious scriptures..
with best regards
yeezevee
Last edited by yeezevee on Tue Dec 23, 2008 1:59 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Rex
Joined: 23 Feb 2006
Posts: 572
Location: MUDDY POND
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| Posted: Mon Dec 22, 2008 7:09 pm Post subject: |
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| parvez_mushtaq wrote: |
rex wrote
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| desperate paedoworsipper trying to see if jesus is smilar tp mohammed |
Dear rex,
I never wanted to answer you, but your quote gave me a new idea
It is evident from my posts that whole through the history Christians applied Old Testament in all aspects of life
Now, they are applying the modern interpretation of bible
So it is very clear that Christians never been a peace loving people as they claim that their jesus had thought them
Rather he thought the most violent religion ever a human can think off
Even today the most violent people are Christians under the skin of peace
They follow everything of the bible even today
They follow sexism of bible
They follow the slavery of the bible (but in the outer form the say they had abolished it)
They follow the intolerance of the bible, both in violent way as well as in intellectual way
The real threat to this world, they distract the harmony of this world in the name of war
In the name of peace they provide terror
They manufacture most deadly weapons in the name of self defense and test them on innocent humans
All this things they are doing by the biblical laws
If you catch the right string of any ugly problem today, then that string will lead to bible directly
For example, pornography
This directly leads to exodus 21 and you can justify this (pornography) by many more chapters of bible
Previously in the past, there were wars in the name of religion, but the ultimate aim was money
This is evident form the war of ABRHA (year of elephant) on kaba
Know, the wars are in the name of peace or in the name of oil, but their ultimate aim is religion. In both case, you will find Christians at the end
One thing I want mention here is, at least atheist never fight in the name of religion
Only the people who believe in god fight against each other, that too in the name of god
Lol
Had you ever seen a atheist fighting against a believer or an atheist demolishing a temple or a masjid or a church
But you can always find these things in case of believers of god
Since you have asked about I am defaming your jesus
Let’s compare the slavery part of Islamic and Christian view
-Islamic view: quran never gave any rule to sell a salve
-Christian view: on the other hand, bible not only gave the rule of salve merchandising but even it have the authority to fathers selling his daughter and that master can resale her .not only this, bible clearly mention how a slave should behave with his master and what will happen to his children and his wife and things of that sort
-Islamic view: a salve cannot be forced to accept Islam
-Christian view: the prime duty of the master is to convert the salve, and if in that process if the slave gets killed, it will be treated as the act of salvation for the master
This is was what happened to the black Muslims of Africa, history is evident
-Islamic view: Islam always wanted to free slaves always
- Christians view: when ever a better system availed for salves, like of serfs, Christians leader always crushed that system and wanted to implement the slavery laws of bible, this happened even in late 1700’s in US
-Islamic view: salves were treated as a one among the house members
-Christians view: leaders of Christians always wanted to draw a line between the masters and slaves and made those slaves to accept their occurrence because god has created them as salves, if any one of them revolted then his answer will be sword in his stomach embedded as far as in can reach
-Islamic view: above all, only salves in the view of quran are captives and the main motive of the master is to educate that salve about Islam by giving food and shelter and clothing with love and affection and he cannot be sold, only thing is that he can be freed
- Christians view: yes, Christianity permits the master to educate him about Christianity but only that he should be a slave and there is no chance of becoming free
So a slave should be slave always with his salve family serving the master, only then their jesus will save the salve
So all this Christian concept of slavery which was adopted till this century was because of their jesus
Just imagine , if your jesus had prohibited slavery laws of old testament in his new testament , then their might not been the concept of slavery during the period of Islam
,but your jesus motivated the concept of slavery in new testament and made them to follow the laws of slavery in old testament thus making slavery to prevail as on today among the Christians
So the true culprit in slavery was/is your jesus and none
This like, time, if you make the people to adopt 50 hours a day, then they will adopt 50 hours concept
So your jesus made them to adopt the concept of slavery and they adopted with fear that your jesus will not save them, so we cannot blame Christians, rather we should blame your jesus
So, your jesus is the greatest killer of all times
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debate with you 
_________________
I am the way, the truth and the Life : JESUS |
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parvez_mushtaq
Joined: 04 Jul 2008
Posts: 265
Location: india
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| Posted: Tue Dec 23, 2008 5:17 am Post subject: |
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| yeezevee wrote: |
yeezevee gives a news link to AN ARABIAN MUSLIM in 21st century
and Indian non-Muslim/NOMINAL MUSLIM parvez_mushtaq comes out with BEFORE CHRIST EXODUS.. lol.. good..and says
| Quote: |
seems the father of that kid had read exodus 21-7, yeez
exodus 21 - 7
And if a man sell his daughter to be a maidservant, she shall not go out as the menservants do.
and decided that your jesus will save him if not Islam |
What did Jesus Christ do here dear parvez_mushtaq?? and why only Exodus? we also have Genesis, Leviticus., Torah, Tanakh, Deuteronomy and what not..., They can not beat our Q'uran.. could they? The prophet of those books can not beat Prophet Muhammad(PBUH).. Can they??
Any way what about Exdous 21-7? I hope you know that Exodus is the 2nd book of the Jewish Torah and of the Christian OT. What is there in it? It is just a story of how Moses leads the Israelites out of Egypt and through the wilderness to the Mount Sinai. So what is there in Exdous 21-7?? read whole chapter dear parvez_mushtaq.,
| Quote: |
EXODUS CHAPTER 21
1 Now these are the ordinances which thou shalt set before them. 2 If thou buy a Hebrew servant, six years he shall serve; and in the seventh he shall go out free for nothing. 3 If he come in by himself, he shall go out by himself; if he be married, then his wife shall go out with him. 4 If his master give him a wife, and she bear him sons or daughters; the wife and her children shall be her master's, and he shall go out by himself. 5 But if the servant shall plainly say: I love my master, my wife, and my children; I will not go out free; 6 then his master shall bring him unto a God, and shall bring him to the door, or unto the door-post; and his master shall bore his ear through with an awl; and he shall serve him for ever. p. 90
7 And if a man sell his daughter to be a maid-servant, she shall not go out as the men-servants do. 8 If she please not her master, who hath espoused her to himself, then shall he let her be redeemed; to sell her unto a foreign people he shall have no power, seeing he hath dealt deceitfully with her. 9 And if he espouse leer unto his son, he shall deal with her after the manner of daughters. 10 If he take him another wife, her food, her raiment, and her conjugal rights, shall he not diminish. 11 And if he do not these three unto her, then shall she go out for nothing, without money.
12 He that smiteth a man, so that he dieth, shall surely be put to death. 13 And if a man lie not in wait, but God cause it to come to hand; then I will appoint thee a place whither he may flee.
14 And if a man come presumptuously upon his neighbour, to slay him with guile; thou shalt take him from Mine altar, that he may die.
15 And he that smiteth his father, or his mother, shall be surely put to death.
16 And he that stealeth a man, and selleth him, or if he be found in his hand, he shall surely be put to death.
17 And he that curseth his father or his mother, shall surely be put to death.
18 And if men contend, and one smite the other with a stone, or with his fist, and he die not, but keep his bed; 19 if he rise again, and walls abroad upon his staff, then shall he that smote him be quit; only he shall pay for the loss of his time, and shall cause him to be thoroughly healed.
20 And if a man smite his bondman, or his bondwoman, with a rod, and he die under his hand, he shall surely be punished. 21 Notwithstanding, if he continue a day or two, he shall not be punished; for he is his money.
22 And if men strive together, and hurt a woman with child, so that her fruit depart, and yet no harm follow, he shall be surely fined, according as the woman's husband shall lay upon him; and he shall pay as the judges determine. 23 But if any harm follow, then thou shalt give life for life, 24 eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot, 25 burning for burning, wound for wound, stripe for stripe.
26 And if a man smite the eye of his bondman, or the eye of his bondwoman, and destroy it, he shall let him go free. for his eye's sake. 27 And if he smite out his bondman's tooth, or his bond: woman's tooth, he shall let him go free for his tooth's sake.
28 And if an ox gore a man or a woman, that they die, the ox shall be surely stoned, and its flesh shall not be eaten; but the owner of the ox shall be quit. 29 But if the ox was wont to gore in time past, and warning hath been given to its owner, and he hath not kept it in, but it hath killed a man or a woman; the ox shall be stoned, and its owner also shall be put to death. 30 If there be laid on him a ransom, then he shall give for the redemption of his life whatsoever is laid upon him. 31 Whether it have gored a son, or have gored a daughter, according to this judgment shall it be done unto him. 32 If the ox gore a bondman or a bondwoman, he shall give unto their master thirty shekels of silver, and the ox shall be stoned.
33 And if a man shall open a pit, or if a man shall dig a pit and not cover it, and an ox or an ass fall therein, 34 the owner of the pit shall make it good; he shall give money unto the p. 91 owner of them, and the dead beast shall be his.
35 And if one man's ox hurt another's, so that it dieth; then they shall sell the live ox, and divide the price of it; and the dead also they shall divide. 36 Or if it be known that the ox was wont to gore in time past, and its owner hath not kept it in; he shall surely pay ox for ox, and the dead beast shall be his own.
37 If a man steal an ox, or a sheep, and kill it, or sell it, he shall pay five oxen for an ox, and four sheep for a sheep. |
So what is the problem with that 21.7 dear parvez
| Quote: |
| 21. 7 to 21.11:.... And if a man sell his daughter to be a maid-servant, she shall not go out as the men-servants do. 8 If she please not her master, who hath espoused her to himself, then shall he let her be redeemed; to sell her unto a foreign people he shall have no power, seeing he hath dealt deceitfully with her. 9 And if he espouse leer unto his son, he shall deal with her after the manner of daughters. 10 If he take him another wife, her food, her raiment, and her conjugal rights, shall he not diminish. 11 And if he do not these three unto her, then shall she go out for nothing, without money. |
You mean to say Muhammad following Muslims Copied all that which was there before the birth of Mr. PBUH?? Aftre all he himself had that 9 year old little girl.. Don't do That WHAT PROPHET MUHAMMAD DID 1400 years back or what that Arabian FOOL in Saudi Arabia did in the last month in India., In fact any where in the subcontinent is CRIMINAL and they will prosecute you.. We got to move on.. we got grow out of 7th century..
And we have to realize and see the difference between the word of ALLAH and PARABLES in OLD religious scriptures..
with best regards
yeezevee |
dear yeez
suddenly you have jumped from the heaven directly into this page and you started talking in a alien language ,yeez
lol
pl read 2/3 pages of this thread and find where we are heading and what i have achieved in this thread then post your comment
your are wasting your as well as my time , yeez
with regards
mushtaq
_________________
006.108
YUSUFALI: Revile not ye those whom they call upon besides Allah, lest they out of spite revile Allah in their ignorance. ...... |
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parvez_mushtaq
Joined: 04 Jul 2008
Posts: 265
Location: india
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| Posted: Tue Dec 23, 2008 5:20 am Post subject: |
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rex wrote
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| debate with you |
you cannot and as a matter of fact no christian cannot stand before a Muslim
start running , rex
happy running rex
anyway my next lesson on exodus will start soon
with regards
mushtaq
_________________
006.108
YUSUFALI: Revile not ye those whom they call upon besides Allah, lest they out of spite revile Allah in their ignorance. ...... |
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Rex
Joined: 23 Feb 2006
Posts: 572
Location: MUDDY POND
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| Posted: Tue Dec 23, 2008 3:02 pm Post subject: |
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| parvez_mushtaq wrote: |
rex wrote
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| debate with you |
you cannot and as a matter of fact no christian cannot stand before a Muslim
start running , rex
happy running rex
anyway my next lesson on exodus will start soon
with regards
mushtaq |
nope mohammedan because you or any moslem has got nothing to debate.how on earth will you debate mohammedan? you got nothing to debate when you believe in this paedophile(SBUH)
I appreciate you for one thing you were clever enough not to defend this paedophile rapist scumbag,Instead you try to bring up irrelevant verses from OT and try to associate it with Jesus,and that shows how despaerate you are mohammedan.
When I said there is no need to debate because you mock yourself.
Actually thats why no mohammedan like to debate paedophile mohammed.their perfct profit.Mohammedans are scared to death debating Paedophile mohammed.I challenge you to deny it Mohammedan,though you consistently exhibit lack of comprehension
_________________
I am the way, the truth and the Life : JESUS |
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Mangga Manis
Joined: 22 Nov 2008
Posts: 59
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| Posted: Wed Dec 24, 2008 1:43 pm Post subject: |
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| parvez_mushtaq wrote: |
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| ......I told you that God doesn't need my defend...... |
the reality is you cannot defend your bible because you yourself know your bible is/was wrong
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| Last time you brought passages from Exodus and now you bring St John Chrysostom & Pope Innocent III but you blamed Jesus that did all those bad acts. |
yes , you are correct mangga
this was the reason that christains in the past and present are saying
so you agree that , all the atrocities done by christians were the will of your god
so you will trust a sword in to my stomach as long as it will go in side
but tell , the truth , the truth is , you cannot defend your god
your faith is blind you people are the cruse of the world
you people will never make the world peace
you people made lots of blood shed in the past and you are doing know
these things are done by your lunatic biblical
your god thought you to sell your daughters and make slaves and ordered your salves to obey their master
your god gave the law in the hands of local priests
they were kill the innocent in the past and using the poor and innocent in the present
if some one question them , their answer will be "don't argue with laws of god "
just think as human and not as a fanatic
Jesus(pbuh) had a responsibility of changing this laws and he did this but people like Constantine noble and St John Chrysostom changed this laws to suit their needs and made this laws in order to kill Jews and they put the blame on Jesus(pbuh)
this was the reason to give St John Chrysostom quotes about Jews
they had the laws but they want to snatch those rules from Jews and make their own laws
if Jews revolted , then they use to kill Jews , because they know only Jews can argue about this laws
because they know unless they brought the name of Jesus(pbuh) in this laws , they can never make people to believe this laws are divine
this laws cannot be divine
just think how can god will ever differentiate between his creation and give laws to prove their difference
history proves this but your faith is such blind you don't want to digest this even after your modern mature reasoning makes you clear this laws are sh!t
did ever Jesus(pbuh) said he has brought a new religion
did Jesus(pbuh) ever said these are new laws for new religion
you should think all this mangga
just having blind faith is not enough , you are mislead and you will mislead many with this laws
this laws were governed by Christians and billions of people were killed by this laws by Christians
do you know some thing mangga , you have defended already
| Quote: |
| Exodus is in the Old Testament Parvez. |
you said , this old testament , what is this , is this not a defense
but when i proved you , your old testament laws were followed by your Christians till last century , know you say how come the blame on your jesus
first you said , this are old testament , when i proved christians followed this old testament laws for years ,you are asking how your jesus comes in
for this i have answered you long back mangga
read few pages behind
i clearly said , if your jesus was a god , then it becomes his responsibility to make this laws to suit humans
but clearly this laws are barbaric
so , as planned by Constantine noble , this laws were adopted by Christians and they killed Jews till last century as well as in this century and the considered it to be the services to god because they are following bible
so naturally the blame goes to your jesus
and this makes your jesus the biggest killer of all times |
Parvez,
How come you are running from the subject that you love dearly: sex... oh I'm sorry I mean love. Why Parvez? Are you ashamed to find out that free sex lifestyle was actually founded by your prophet? Worst of all, that free sex lifestyle was not only shown by Muhammad but also he wished to continue it into the heaven. So sick! The fact that you are running from this subject shows that you are running out of you twisted arguments. Or I should say that you are a looser man!
There is one wise man statement that says "Quit while you are on top", and I think I'd like to follow that advise.  Last but not least, one scripture that I want to quote for you is that: I am more than a conqueror...hahahaha.
_________________
Semoga cita-cita pendiri bangsa Indonesia melihat persatuan & kesatuan Indonesia dapat terwujud |
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parvez_mushtaq
Joined: 04 Jul 2008
Posts: 265
Location: india
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| Posted: Thu Dec 25, 2008 7:58 am Post subject: |
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rex wrote :
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| I appreciate you for one thing you were clever enough not to defend this paedophile…… |
Lol
But I don’t blame you, rex, even Muslims believe that Mohammed(pbuh) married ayshe (ra) at 9 as you have quoted the hadith with your funny cartoon
I have asked you to ask this not in this thread but you want to divert me from my subject of teaching bible
Ok, this is my Christmas present for rex
A hadith immaterial of being authentic or sound , should be treated as false if it goes against quran
So, we cannot take all hadiths as well as at the same time we cannot ignore all hadiths
Lets check the age of ayshe(ra) with quran
Of course, quran never talk about the history of Mohammed (pbuh )
But it made very clear that he is the best example of the way of life as per quran and there is no exception
So mohammed did what quran ordered
In other words Mohammed and quran never ever contradicted
For example
068.004
And thou (standest) on an exalted standard of character.
And the tafsir ibn katir says
"It has been mentioned to us that Sa`d bin Hisham asked `A'ishah about the character of the Messenger of Allah , so she replied: `Have you not read the Qur'an' Sa`d said: `Of course.' Then she said: `Verily, the character of the Messenger of Allah was the Qur'an.''' `Abdur-Razzaq recorded similar to this and Imam Muslim recorded it in his Sahih on the authority of Qatadah in its full length. This means that he would act according to the commands and the prohibition in the Qur'an. His nature and character were patterned according to the Qur'an, and he abandoned his natural disposition (i.e., the carnal nature). So whatever the Qur'an commanded, he did it, and whatever it forbade, he avoided it. Along with this, Allah gave him the exalted character, which included the qualities of modesty, kindness, bravery, pardoning, gentleness and every other good characteristic. This is like that which has been confirmed in the Two Sahihs that Anas said, "I served the Messenger of Allah for ten years, and he never said a word of displeasure to me (Uff), nor did he ever say to me concerning something I had done: `Why did you do that' And he never said to me concerning something I had not done: `Why didn't you do this' He had the best character, and I never touched any silk or anything else that was softer than the palm of the Messenger of Allah . And I never smelled any musk or perfume that had a better fragrance than the sweat of the Messenger of Allah.'' Imam Al-Bukhari recorded that Al-Bara' said, "The Messenger of Allah had the most handsome face of all the people, and he had the best behavior of all of the people. And he was not tall, nor was he short.'' The Hadiths concerning this matter are numerous. Abu `Isa At-Tirmidhi has a complete book on this subject called Kitab Ash-Shama'il. Imam Ahmad recorded that `A'ishah said, "The Messenger of Allah never struck a servant of his with his hand, nor did he ever hit a woman. He never hit anything with his hand, except for when he was fighting Jihad in the cause of Allah. And he was never given the option between two things except that the most beloved of the two to him was the easiest of them, as long as it did not involve sin. If it did involve sin, then he stayed farther away from sin than any of the people.....
So he did what quran commanded and forbade what it forbid
Know lets check the age of marriage in quran
003.035
Behold! a woman of 'Imran said: "O my Lord! I do dedicate unto Thee what is in my womb for Thy special service: So accept this of me: For Thou hearest and knowest all things."
So it is very clear that A WOMEN AND a women cannot be a kid
And to make you further more clear about the age of marriage, let’s take this ayah
3-37
And her Lord accepted her with full acceptance and vouchsafed to her a goodly growth; and made Zachariah her guardian. Whenever Zachariah went into the sanctuary where she was, he found that she had food. He said: O Mary! Whence cometh unto thee this (food)? She answered: It is from Allah. Allah giveth without stint to whom He will.
Here it is very clear that, Miriam (pbuh) was WELL GROWN PIOUS WOMEN , THAT IS SHE HAD A AGE TO BEAR A CHILD BUT YET NOT MARRIED
In other words, she had crossed the age puberty
So the age of marriage is fixed as age after puberty
so that hatidh should be thrown into the bins
Moreover, about child sexual abuses, even we have a verse in quran
24-58. O you who believe! Let your legal slaves and slave-girls, and those among you who have not come to the age of puberty ask your permission (before they come to your presence) on three occasions; before Fajr (morning) prayer, and while you put off your clothes for the noonday (rest), and after the 'Ishâ' (late-night) prayer. (These) three times are of privacy for you, other than these times there is no sin on you or on them to move about, attending (helping) you each other. Thus Allâh makes clear the Ayât (the Verses of this Qur'ân, showing proofs for the legal aspects of permission for visits, etc.) to you. And Allâh is All-Knowing, All-Wise.
See the proper care of children has been taken care and a clean and clear line is drawn between children and the obscenity .so again that hadith is contradicting this verse
Even the verses, 33-50, 51 confirms this, GOD never told Mohammed to marry kids also rather he forbade females who goes away from the criterion of 33-50 in 33-51
So with this we can conclude the hadith by you quoted is wrong and Mohammed (pbuh) never married ayshe(ra) during her childhood
and moreover , can you show me , any of the companions of Mohammed(pbuh) had even objected about this marriage , in contrast , abu bakker(ra) felt proud of this marriage
So dear rex, Mohammed (pbuh) never married ayshe(ra)in her child hood
This is quran , it gives answers to all my questions , now this your time to prove your jesus was not to be blame for the killing of innocent CHRISTIANS SALVE WHO WERE ENSLAVED BY CHRISTIANS
LOL, CHRISTIANS ENSALVING CHRISTIANS IN THE NAME OF god
AND ASKING THEM TO BE A SALVE ONLY THEN HE WILL BE A TRUE CHRISTIAN.
If you can prove this hadith with quran
Ha tu burhanakum
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YUSUFALI: Revile not ye those whom they call upon besides Allah, lest they out of spite revile Allah in their ignorance. ...... |
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Cassandra
Joined: 07 Nov 2005
Posts: 4495
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| Posted: Thu Dec 25, 2008 12:37 pm Post subject: |
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| parvez_mushtaq wrote: |
rex wrote :
| Quote: |
| I appreciate you for one thing you were clever enough not to defend this paedophile…… |
Lol
But I don’t blame you, rex, even Muslims believe that Mohammed(pbuh) married ayshe (ra) at 9 as you have quoted the hadith with your funny cartoon
I have asked you to ask this not in this thread but you want to divert me from my subject of teaching bible
Ok, this is my Christmas present for rex
A hadith immaterial of being authentic or sound , should be treated as false if it goes against quran
So, we cannot take all hadiths as well as at the same time we cannot ignore all hadiths
Lets check the age of ayshe(ra) with quran
Of course, quran never talk about the history of Mohammed (pbuh )
But it made very clear that he is the best example of the way of life as per quran and there is no exception
So mohammed did what quran ordered
In other words Mohammed and quran never ever contradicted
For example
068.004
And thou (standest) on an exalted standard of character.
And the tafsir ibn katir says
"It has been mentioned to us that Sa`d bin Hisham asked `A'ishah about the character of the Messenger of Allah , so she replied: `Have you not read the Qur'an' Sa`d said: `Of course.' Then she said: `Verily, the character of the Messenger of Allah was the Qur'an.''' `Abdur-Razzaq recorded similar to this and Imam Muslim recorded it in his Sahih on the authority of Qatadah in its full length. This means that he would act according to the commands and the prohibition in the Qur'an. His nature and character were patterned according to the Qur'an, and he abandoned his natural disposition (i.e., the carnal nature). So whatever the Qur'an commanded, he did it, and whatever it forbade, he avoided it. Along with this, Allah gave him the exalted character, which included the qualities of modesty, kindness, bravery, pardoning, gentleness and every other good characteristic. This is like that which has been confirmed in the Two Sahihs that Anas said, "I served the Messenger of Allah for ten years, and he never said a word of displeasure to me (Uff), nor did he ever say to me concerning something I had done: `Why did you do that' And he never said to me concerning something I had not done: `Why didn't you do this' He had the best character, and I never touched any silk or anything else that was softer than the palm of the Messenger of Allah . And I never smelled any musk or perfume that had a better fragrance than the sweat of the Messenger of Allah.'' Imam Al-Bukhari recorded that Al-Bara' said, "The Messenger of Allah had the most handsome face of all the people, and he had the best behavior of all of the people. And he was not tall, nor was he short.'' The Hadiths concerning this matter are numerous. Abu `Isa At-Tirmidhi has a complete book on this subject called Kitab Ash-Shama'il. Imam Ahmad recorded that `A'ishah said, "The Messenger of Allah never struck a servant of his with his hand, nor did he ever hit a woman. He never hit anything with his hand, except for when he was fighting Jihad in the cause of Allah. And he was never given the option between two things except that the most beloved of the two to him was the easiest of them, as long as it did not involve sin. If it did involve sin, then he stayed farther away from sin than any of the people.....
So he did what quran commanded and forbade what it forbid
Know lets check the age of marriage in quran
003.035
Behold! a woman of 'Imran said: "O my Lord! I do dedicate unto Thee what is in my womb for Thy special service: So accept this of me: For Thou hearest and knowest all things."
So it is very clear that A WOMEN AND a women cannot be a kid |
1. Nisa can mean even baby girls.
2. What's that verse to do with Aisha?
| parvez wrote: |
And to make you further more clear about the age of marriage, let’s take this ayah
3-37
And her Lord accepted her with full acceptance and vouchsafed to her a goodly growth; and made Zachariah her guardian. Whenever Zachariah went into the sanctuary where she was, he found that she had food. He said: O Mary! Whence cometh unto thee this (food)? She answered: It is from Allah. Allah giveth without stint to whom He will.
Here it is very clear that, Miriam (pbuh) was WELL GROWN PIOUS WOMEN , THAT IS SHE HAD A AGE TO BEAR A CHILD BUT YET NOT MARRIED
In other words, she had crossed the age puberty
So the age of marriage is fixed as age after puberty |
You're misinterpreting the verse.
1. Mary was not Aisha - she was older than Aisha.
2. Goodly growth does not mean maturity.
3. That verse does not fix the age of marriage as age after puberty.
| parvez wrote: |
so that hatidh should be thrown into the bins
Moreover, about child sexual abuses, even we have a verse in quran
24-58. O you who believe! Let your legal slaves and slave-girls, and those among you who have not come to the age of puberty ask your permission (before they come to your presence) on three occasions; before Fajr (morning) prayer, and while you put off your clothes for the noonday (rest), and after the 'Ishâ' (late-night) prayer. (These) three times are of privacy for you, other than these times there is no sin on you or on them to move about, attending (helping) you each other. Thus Allâh makes clear the Ayât (the Verses of this Qur'ân, showing proofs for the legal aspects of permission for visits, etc.) to you. And Allâh is All-Knowing, All-Wise.
See the proper care of children has been taken care and a clean and clear line is drawn between children and the obscenity .so again that hadith is contradicting this verse |
What's this to do with MARRIAGE AND SEX? It just says children have to greet their FATHER 3 times a day.
| parvez wrote: |
Even the verses, 33-50, 51 confirms this, GOD never told Mohammed to marry kids also rather he forbade females who goes away from the criterion of 33-50 in 33-51
So with this we can conclude the hadith by you quoted is wrong and Mohammed (pbuh) never married ayshe(ra) during her childhood
and moreover , can you show me , any of the companions of Mohammed(pbuh) had even objected about this marriage , in contrast , abu bakker(ra) felt proud of this marriage |
1. Muhammad did not have to have Allah's permission to commit pedophilia because 65:4 allows Muslims to marry and divorce girls below the age of puberty.
| parvez wrote: |
| So dear rex, Mohammed (pbuh) never married ayshe(ra)in her child hood |
You're totally wrong. Merry Christmas to you too. |
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parvez_mushtaq
Joined: 04 Jul 2008
Posts: 265
Location: india
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| Posted: Thu Dec 25, 2008 3:06 pm Post subject: |
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cassandra
| Quote: |
| 1. Nisa can mean even baby girls. |
Hhaahhahahah uhhhhhh lol, the word used here is امْرَأَةُ (imraatu)
Read as
3-35. Ith qalati imraatu AAimrana rabbi innee nathartu laka ma fee batnee muharraran fataqabbal minnee innaka anta alssameeAAu alAAaleemu
Hahaha uhhh
| Quote: |
| 2. What's that verse to do with Aisha? |
I said
| Quote: |
| So it is very clear that A WOMEN AND a woman cannot be a kid |
Means, a wife of imran(pbuh) was praying for kid meaning to say that , the wife of imran(pbuh) was a woman and quran was talking about mature women
It is clear that marrying a immature woman is prohibited from this ayah
| Quote: |
| 1. Mary was not Aisha - she was older than Aisha. |
Thas is the problem, I am proving here aisha(ra) was a mature women as like mariam(pbuh) and the wife of imran(pbuh)
| Quote: |
| 2. Goodly growth does not mean maturity., |
Lol, goodly growth in the context is for mariam(pbuh) to bear a child
Do you have any other context pl tell and you, approved mariam(pbuh) was not a kid
| Quote: |
3. That verse does not fix the age of marriage as age after puberty. |
Even in three lines you are contradicting yourself
First you say , mariam(pbuh) was older than the falsely assigned age of aisha(pbuh)
Know you disapprove your own statement saying that this doesn’t fix the age of puberty
So, this proves that, the age of marriage is after puberty
| Quote: |
| What's this to do with MARRIAGE AND SEX? It just says children have to greet their FATHER 3 times a day. |
Lol, hahaha uhhh
Either you are blind for particular verses or you have not read the entire ayah
I will make it clear for you
24-58. O you who believe! Let your legal slaves and slave-girls, and those among you who have not come to the age of puberty ask your permission (before they come to your presence) on three occasions; before Fajr (morning) prayer, and while you put off your clothes for the noonday (rest), and after the 'Ishâ' (late-night) prayer. (These) three times are of privacy for you, other than these times there is no sin on you or on them to move about, attending (helping) you each other. Thus Allâh makes clear the Ayât (the Verses of this Qur'ân, showing proofs for the legal aspects of permission for visits, etc.) to you. And Allâh is All-Knowing, All-Wise.
It is not about wishing, rather asking permission to enter in the room
- in the morning , because they use to asleep and it that state , one may not know how his/her cloths will be
- in the afternoon , that is during the time people put off their cloths
- in the isha , that is night , you know what happens in the night
this ayah , clearly instruct , parents should take care of their nudity or half nakedness so that the children who are yet to attain puberty may not witness this
so , the moral is even the exposure of half nakedness to the children who are yet to attain puberty is forbidden , and so where is the question of marrying a child who is yet to attain puberty
Hence, this also makes verse clear that man cannot marry a child who is yet attain puberty
Again , this verse also contradicts that hadith
| Quote: |
| 1. Muhammad did not have to have Allah's permission to commit pedophilia because 65:4 allows Muslims to marry and divorce girls below the age of puberty. |
65-4. And those of your women as have passed the age of monthly courses, for them the 'Iddah (prescribed period), if you have doubts (about their periods), is three months, and for those who have no courses [(i.e. they are still immature) their 'Iddah (prescribed period) is three months likewise, except in case of death] . And for those who are pregnant (whether they are divorced or their husbands are dead), their 'Iddah (prescribed period) is until they deliver (their burdens), and whosoever fears Allâh and keeps his duty to Him, He will make his matter easy for him.
This verse is talking doubt regarding menstruation, does this confirms about marrying kids
| Quote: |
| You're totally wrong. Merry Christmas to you too. |
I am totally correct and this ends the controversies regarding the marriage aisha (sa) and seems only ff has answered this controversy
So the problem was that hadith and it doesn’t fit quran in any way
Merry Christmas
_________________
006.108
YUSUFALI: Revile not ye those whom they call upon besides Allah, lest they out of spite revile Allah in their ignorance. ...... |
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Rex
Joined: 23 Feb 2006
Posts: 572
Location: MUDDY POND
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| Posted: Thu Dec 25, 2008 9:26 pm Post subject: |
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Its not a single hadith which supports ayshas age but many.Also mohammedan law can not be enforced without hadiths.there is no reason why we should not trust these accounts.
The Islamic source materials state that Aisha was 9 when they consummated their marriage.
From the hadith of Bukhari, volume 5, #234
"Narrated Aisha: The prophet engaged me when I was a girl of six. We went to Medina and stayed at the home of Harith Kharzraj. Then I got ill and my hair fell down. Later on my hair grew (again) and my mother, Um Ruman, came to me while I was playing in a swing with some of my girl friends. She called me, and I went to her, not knowing what she wanted to do to me. She caught me by the hand and made me stand at the door of the house. I was breathless then, and when my breathing became all right, she took some water and rubbed my face and head with it. Then she took me into the house. There in the house I saw some Ansari women who said, "Best wishes and Allah's blessing and a good luck." Then she entrusted me to them and they prepared me (for the marriage). Unexpectedly Allah's messenger came to me in the forenoon and my mother handed me over to him, and at that time I was a girl of nine years of age."
Bukhari vol. 7, #65:
"Narrated Aisha that the prophet wrote the marriage contract with her when she was six years old and he consummated his marriage when she was nine years old. Hisham said: "I have been informed that Aisha remained with the prophet for nine years (i.e. till his death).""
From the hadith of Muslim, volume 2, #3309
Aisha reported: Allah’s Messenger married me when I was six years old, and I was admitted to his house at the age of nine….
From the hadith of the Sunan of Abu Dawud, volume 2, #2116
"Aisha said, "The Apostle of Allah married me when I was seven years old." (The narrator Sulaiman said: "Or six years."). "He had intercourse with me when I was 9 years old."
From "The History of Tabari", volume 9, page 131
"Then the men and women got up and left. The Messenger of God consummated his marriage with me in my house when I was nine years old. Neither a camel nor a sheep was slaughtered on behalf of me"...(The Prophet) married her three years before the Emigration, when she was seven years old and consummated the marriage when she was nine years old, after he had emigrated to Medina in Shawwal. She was eighteen years old when he died.
From the Encyclopedia of Islam, under "Aisha":
"Some time after the death of Khadija, Khawla suggested to Muhammad that he should marry either Aisha, the 6 year old daughter of his chief follower, or Sawda Zama, a widow of about 30, who had gone as a Muslim to Abyssinia and whose husband had died there. Muhammad is said to have asked her to arrange for him to marry both. It had already been agreed that Aisha should marry Djubayr Mutim, whose father, though still pagan, was friendly to the Muslims. By common consent, however, this agreement was set aside, and Muhammad was betrothed to Aisha... The marriage was not consummated until some months after the Hidjra, (in April 623, 624). Aisha went to live in an apartment in Muhammad's house, later the mosque of Median. She cannot have been more than ten years old at the time and took her toys to her new home."
your prophet is apaedophile.period
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parvez_mushtaq
Joined: 04 Jul 2008
Posts: 265
Location: india
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| Posted: Fri Dec 26, 2008 7:30 am Post subject: |
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rex wrote :
| Quote: |
Its not a single hadith which supports ayshas age but many.Also mohammedan law can not be enforced without hadiths.there is no reason why we should not trust these accounts.
The Islamic source materials state that Aisha was 9 when they consummated their marriage.
|
You bring millions hadiths regarding the age of aisha(ra) all those millions hadiths will be considered as fabrications or false and they fit nowhere but to the bins if they done fit with quran
Or on the other hand you bring half found script believed as a hadith and if that goes along with quran then it should be considered as a authentic hadith and a Muslim should follow it
As per quran , if we sum up my post , we have the following conclusions
- only a women are fit for marriage or to have baby
- children not attain puberty cannot be made to witness the half nudity during at sleep as well as , they cannot be kept aside during the sexual acts of their parents
- prophet Mohammed(pbuh) or any believer was not given the permission to marry a children who have not attain puberty
So with these conclusions, i conclude that aisha (ra) was a matured women and not a kid
Had you ever seen a Islamic country giving a legal rights to female getting married without attaining puberty
Let’s check the details marriageable age of few countries
- Algeria: 21 for males and 18 for females, lower with judicial permission if necessity or benefit is established
- Egypt: 18 for males and females (per the new child protection law).
- South Africa: 18.[7] There are provisions made for respecting the marriage laws of traditional marriages, whereby a person might be married as young as 12 for females and 14 for males.
- Sudan: Puberty, with requirement for willing consent of both parties.
- Paraguay: 14 for females and 16 for males. Article 39, clause "b", of the Paraguayan Civil Code reads: “The legal incapacity of minors will cease: ...(b) for gentlemen of 16 and for women of 14 years completed, through marriage, with the limitations established in this Code”
- United States: Usually 18. Most states, however, allow marriage at a younger age with parental and/or judicial consent. Some states allow marriage at a still younger age if the female is pregnant. There are a few states that have a higher age. Note that violation of the law occurs at the moment of physical contact (before pregnancy), and so most men are imprisoned before any marriage takes place, leaving marriage de facto illegal
- Afghanistan: 18 for males and 14 for females, more than half of marriages involve females under 16.
- • Bangladesh: 21 for males and 18 for females, lunar calendar; penal sanctions for contracting under-age marriages, though such unions are not considered invalid
- Iran: 18, 15 with parental consent.
- Kuwait: No minimum marriage age identified; capacity to marry requires parties to be of age (puberty) and of sound mind, however, no notarisation or registration of marriage permitted where female has not reached 15 years or male 17 years.
These are few countries, but sex is something done between four walls, so one cannot keep these things in control
Yet there are laws
And moreover, if Prophet Mohammad (pbuh) had married a kid who was yet to attain puberty, then, it was considered as laws and no Muslim country will ever gone against this
But, the minimum age considered for marriage even in Muslim countries is age after puberty
So, you have to believe ALL THOSE HADITHS ARE WRONG AND TO BE THROWN IN BINS
IF YOU DON’T HAVE BINS, TELL ME I WILL PROVIDE YOU, I SELL BEST BINS IN CHENNAI
Next time you talk about this issue, talk with a qurnaic verse in support of your hadith
I am not here to discuss your sadistic hatred towards Islam neither I have any intention of irritating Christians with your OT statements of your bible
I tell facts and ask facts
If you really want to discuss your sadistic hatred, call me to a yahoo chat room and use all your hatred their and I will answer you in a due manner
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YUSUFALI: Revile not ye those whom they call upon besides Allah, lest they out of spite revile Allah in their ignorance. ...... |
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Rex
Joined: 23 Feb 2006
Posts: 572
Location: MUDDY POND
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| Posted: Fri Dec 26, 2008 11:10 am Post subject: |
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you know what mohammedan you made one of the biggest mistakes a human can ever make, defending Paedophile mohammed
.hatred? are you sick in the head mohammedan?I have not made up a single thing.I am just quoting parts of the approved (mohammedan approved as authentic) sahi hadiths.Now I will prove that mohammedans have no problem marrying childern of any age as well. based on Koran and hadiths and the perfect man Mohammed.
So far you posted crap , in defense of the paedophile.So try to come up with something worthwhile to read.
Parvez mustaq wrote
| Quote: |
Had you ever seen a Islamic country giving a legal rights to female getting married without attaining puberty
|
to start with ,here is a contemperory example from the homeland of the Paedophile
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/middleeast/saudiarabia/3884696/Saudi-court-rejects-plea-to-annul-8-year-old-girls-marriage-to-58-year-old-man.html
The divorce plea was filed in August by the girl's divorced mother with a court at Unayzah, 220 kilometres (135 miles) north of Riyadh just after the marriage contract was signed by the father and the groom.
"She doesn't know yet that she has been married," the lawyer said then of the girl who was about to begin her fourth year at primary school.
Relatives who did not wish to be named told AFP that the marriage had not yet been consummated, and that the girl continued to live with her mother. They said that the father had set a verbal condition by which the marriage is not consummated for another 10 years, when the girl turns 18.
The father had agreed to marry off his daughter for an advance dowry of 30,000 riyals ($8,000), as he was apparently facing financial problems, they said.
The father was in court and he remained adamant in favour of the marriage, they added.
_________________
I am the way, the truth and the Life : JESUS
Last edited by Rex on Fri Dec 26, 2008 1:36 pm; edited 3 times in total |
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Rex
Joined: 23 Feb 2006
Posts: 572
Location: MUDDY POND
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| Posted: Fri Dec 26, 2008 11:34 am Post subject: |
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Ok If I you need me to elaborate your prophet's X Files
First of all i will prove that the Koran far from contradicting it, complements what is said in this hadiths .
[Koran 65:4] As for the women who have reached menopause, if you have any doubts, their interim shall be three months. As for those who do not menstruate, and discover that they are pregnant, their interim ends upon giving birth. Anyone who reverences GOD, He makes everything easy for him.
Since Muslim men are to wait 3 months before divorcing a prepubescent child it means that they have been engaging in sex with those children.
Also please be aware that kafirs dont diffrentiate between Koran and hadiths, other than being Islamic sources.Let me make clear ,we don't attach any divinity to Koran or hadihs
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