Out and free at last

[Jam]

[Black Trident]

[Jam]

Yeah its ridiculous isn't it! I hope that woman didn't end up being sucked into Islam and convert. If I had not been born into a Muslim family and heard that Islam allows men to cheat on their spouse like that, I'd rule the religion out from my list forever!

Black Trident, I love the 'My Ghilman is pregnant!' It's amazing that even after having all those houries, muslim men in heaven are promised those pearly boys. Islam is a sex-obsessed cult through and through, but one where the women never have any of the fun.
_________________
Sickening morals:
http://www.islam-qa.com/en/ref/33597
http://www.islam-qa.com/en/ref/20910
http://www.islam-qa.com/en/ref/14022
http://www.islam-qa.com/en/ref/1018
http://www.islam-qa.com/en/ref/1493
http://www.islam-qa.com/en/ref/111881

[Black Trident]

[WildChild]

Thank you for sharing, only been on here for a short while but it has made such a difference to me to have some contact with others who have experienced what I did. It is scary how ignorant people are about what Islam is. It isn't PC to say anything against a religion. I'm so sick of being told, "they wouldn't really do that", or "that's illegal here" If it's in their faith, if they Think it's in their faith, they will! Whether it's selling a daughter in marriage, female circumcision- they'll do it. And What's Up with the US not making female circumcision illegal? This needs attention! For women the clit is it, sexually, how muslims can support this is hard to grasp given the hadith that a man should hold back his own pleasure until the woman has her's. He's going to have to last a loooong time. Why this practice hasn't been banned here in the US baffles me! Any insight on this?
_________________
Face piles of trials with smiles, it riles them to believe that you perceive the web they weave. Keep on thinking free.
Moody Blues

[Marley]

Female circumcision isn't an Islamic practice.

A few years ago, an Imam in Sweden called it abuse.

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0HXI/is_2003_Nov_11/ai_n25077292

Quite right, but obviously he won't share the same sentiments about male circumcision.

[Chewchy]

[WildChild]

I specifically used the statement that if they Think it's part of their faith they'll do it because I know it's a somewhat grey area. It's not haram, it's not makruob, it's not required. The fact that it was practiced and not condemmed by the prophet and his statement to cut only a little - hardly sound like disapproval. There are stronger hadith about whistling being disliked by the prophet. But then as a muslim I got scolded for whistling, singing, smiling too much, having "too smooth" a voice, too much spring in my step, riding a bike, running - I was kind of like that girl in Sound of Music, always being pressed. Repressed, supressed....depressed - the typical muslim woman!
_________________
Face piles of trials with smiles, it riles them to believe that you perceive the web they weave. Keep on thinking free.
Moody Blues

[Marley]

Oops, I thought Muhammed did condemn it?

[WildChild]

It's been awhile since I've looked at this but I think the post that mentioned his saying to cut only "a little" is about the sum of it. What was explained to me was that just as people's minds were gradually prepared for the banning of alcohol, the way was being prepared to ban female circumcision, had Mohammed lived longer. But I don't see any, "it's better if you don't" like there was with alcohol. It's just another way of smoothing the alarm points for converts and the more reasonable muslim born. Only a man who cares only for his own pleasure would want a woman who cannot orgasm. The man in my life delights that I am multi and so do I! A man and woman who do not care about each other's pleasure in this ultimate sharing do not care about each other or have a true partnership, that isn't just sex, it's all areas of the relationship. If a man wants a woman to care about him and want to pleasure him he has to do the same for her. This is an issue that is fundamental to attitude about marriage and relationships.

On the subject of male circumcision, I read something several years ago by a man who have been uncircumcised into adulthood and had then had to be circumcised because of a medical problem. He said that his sensitivity was reduced ( some women might argue that's a good thing given how quick some men are out of the gate) but his observation was that an uncircumcised man would have a much more painful expereince raping or having sex with a woman who wasn't fully aroused. An interesting point in a faith that allows rape and sexual enslavement in war.
_________________
Face piles of trials with smiles, it riles them to believe that you perceive the web they weave. Keep on thinking free.
Moody Blues

[Marley]

I don't know much about female circumcision so I cannot comment on whether the female experiences more or less pleasure. I will assume it is much less. It is a barbaric practice, and has no place in a civilized society.

But how do you stop it? It's abuse, but it happens to hundreds of thousands of innocent girls all the time.

[WildChild]

Look at this way - the head of the penis has 4000 nerve endings or receptors, I assume you know how sensitive that is? That is a multi purpose organ. The clitorus is always removed in female circumcision, along with varying parts ot the outer lips and inner labia. A woman's clitorus has only one purpose - pleasure and it contains 8000 nerve endings. The old Fruedian theory of woman having "immature or clitorial orgasms or "mature", that is cervical orgasms has been debunked. The clit is the source of female orgasm. Like the penis there much more to it than what is apparent on the surface, both extend into the body. There are a number of places you can read on this subject the Tantrists refer to the male portion of this as the hidden penis.
Unless a woman has trained herself to achieve orgasm mentally through thought or by "retraining" her mind and body to achieve orgasm through the stimulation of other parts of her body (this is takes a pretty good degree of a awareness and sexuality although some have done it unaware) without clitorial stimulation a woman cannot orgasm and is unlikely to achieve a high level of arousal or any satisfaction from sex. The only alternative would be the anus which has the second highest number of nerve endings in the body - but Islam forbids that ( although what I heard from other women being forbidden put it pretty high demand with many muslim men).
Basically a woman who has been circumcised is unlikely to experience any pleasure from intercourse. Many have a great deal of pain. This is the BIG difference between male and female circumcision. A circumcised man can orgasm and experience a great deal of pleasure, a circumcised woman experiences neither.
_________________
Face piles of trials with smiles, it riles them to believe that you perceive the web they weave. Keep on thinking free.
Moody Blues

[Marley]

Thanks for the explanation, I didn't know all that.

I doubt this information was known back then, what was the justification for female circumcision 1400 years ago?

Islam says a woman's pleasure is important, but just a few minutes ago I read that Muhammed actually said "cut off a little" regarding a woman's clit. I assume they saw it as unclean?

[WildChild]

While they may not have understood all the mechanics, it doesn't take a genius or a medical degree to have a woman say that feels incredible or to feel her muscles spasm in orgasm. Many ancient cultures including pre-Islamic Arabia had temple priestesses and sexual rites as part of their religions, they had a pretty good understanding of female sexuality. Sex toys and detailed illustrations of sexual acts have been found all over the world. Humans have been interested in sex and pleasure as long as they have exsisted. They had to have had a pretty good idea where a woman's primary source of pleasure is. Many women experience G spot orgasm - this is from the hidden clit, the part that extends into the body and can be stimulated from the vagina but the vagina itself has little feeling. If it did childbirth would be unbearable. Not all women, maybe not even half experience this type of orgasm.

Best guess is that female circumcision has the purpose of eliminating a woman's pleasure in an effort to control her. I've heard explainations that this will keep her faithful, that woman are more driven by sexual desire than men, that some types of female circumision almost close up the vaginal opening making it tighter and more pleasureable for the man but very painful for the woman. A disturbing book by feminist Mary Daly, Gyn/Ecology delves pretty deeply into this and into the social/emotional/cultural implications of having women perform this procedure on other women. The saddest part of this is that it cannot stop a woman's desire but destroys her ability to fulfill it. Imagine being intensely horny and NEVER able to find relief. Imagine those of these women who actually love their husband but can never enjoy sexual relations with them but instead find it torturous both physically and emotionally. Most must simply shut down that part of themselves becoming nonresponsive, they would have to or go nuts. This is really a form of sexual and emotional torture. Here in the US many prisons allow the criminals the special privilege of visits with their spouse for sex and intimacy, this is recognition of the calming effect and importance of this special closeness. But the various tribalists and muslims (and I might add countries such as the US who fail to outlaw and condem it)who condone the practice of female circumcision condem hundreds of thousands of women to an unwilling state of sexual subjugation.
_________________
Face piles of trials with smiles, it riles them to believe that you perceive the web they weave. Keep on thinking free.
Moody Blues

[Chewchy]

Wildchild, Brava!! Absolutely excellent explanation.