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In defense of Faith
Joined: 10 May 2008
Posts: 46
Location: Worship the CREATOR, not His creations!
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 Posted: Sun May 11, 2008 7:48 am Post subject: Of course god exists |
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if god did not exist, then what or who created you?!!!!
Come on atheist fools, just use your brains.
how did you come into being if god the creator nourisher and sustainer of the universe did not exist? |
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Dominus
Joined: 13 Jun 2007
Posts: 838
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| Posted: Sun May 11, 2008 8:00 am Post subject: |
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| Who created God? |
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Samurai_Jack
Joined: 24 Dec 2004
Posts: 2782
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STEAM
Joined: 09 Nov 2005
Posts: 7645
Location: Hopefully out of fanatics' reach
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| Posted: Sun May 11, 2008 11:25 am Post subject: |
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OK. How did he create himself? What were the raw materials used and what was the process which produced the finished product? Where did the raw materials come from and who designed the process? |
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chiplee
Joined: 01 Nov 2006
Posts: 405
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| Posted: Sun May 11, 2008 11:56 am Post subject: |
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I suggest to my fellow atheists that this thread be ignored. It is the dumbest thread I've ever seen and it is an offense to human intellect.
The topic starter seems to have no idea what a double standard is, and when Dominus pointed out the question that must be asked, by the logic applied to make the original statement, the response given was absolute nonsense, God made himself.
So creationists say two things
1 Something CAN come from nothing, as long as it's God.
2 Nothing can be eternal, unless it's God.
So something coming from nothingness, the conflict they pose for us all the time, really isn't hard for them to swallow at all. They just NEED the idea of God so they don't bother to apply the same logical constraints to their God falacy, because that would be mentally inconvenient now wouldn't?
If atheists are fools, creationists are idiots.
_________________
"[The Bible] has noble poetry in it... and some good morals and a wealth of obscenity, and upwards of a thousand lies." Mark Twain
"I still say a church steeple with a lightening rod on top shows a lack of confidence."
-- Doug McLeod |
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Samurai_Jack
Joined: 24 Dec 2004
Posts: 2782
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| Posted: Sun May 11, 2008 1:05 pm Post subject: |
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| STEAM wrote: |
OK. How did he create himself? What were the raw materials used and what was the process which produced the finished product? Where did the raw materials come from and who designed the process? |
Our minds are too puny to understand God. You are asking how God was created because you live in a world where there is a beggining, a creation and then death. So you judge everthing based on what you know.
God is beyond life or death, beyond your idea of creation.
_________________
India is a geographical term. It is no more a united nation than the Equator.
Winston Churchill...Evolutionary fairy tales for grown ups http://www.evolutionfairytale.com/articles_debates/evolutiondefinition.htm |
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chiplee
Joined: 01 Nov 2006
Posts: 405
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| Posted: Sun May 11, 2008 1:10 pm Post subject: |
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| Samurai_Jack wrote: |
| STEAM wrote: |
OK. How did he create himself? What were the raw materials used and what was the process which produced the finished product? Where did the raw materials come from and who designed the process? |
Our minds are too puny to understand God. You are asking how God was created because you live in a world where there is a beggining, a creation and then death. So you judge everthing based on what you know.
God is beyond life or death, beyond your idea of creation. |
like I said, it's ok for God to be beyond our understanding and eternal, but it's not ok for the universe to be beyond our undersanding and eternal. It wouldn't provide the same warm fuzzy feeling if it turned out to be the universe that had always been though would it. That just doesn't make sense does it? The double standard is disgusting.
I just can't get over how lame it is for a believer to say God has always been, and then turn around and say "you have to prove how 'x' began". In one breath they can say "something" is eternal, and in the next they must know how 'x' started.
The same "you live in a world where there is a beginning and an end" argument could be, and often is levied against believers for their refusal to accept that the universe is for all intents and purposes, ETERNAL.
_________________
"[The Bible] has noble poetry in it... and some good morals and a wealth of obscenity, and upwards of a thousand lies." Mark Twain
"I still say a church steeple with a lightening rod on top shows a lack of confidence."
-- Doug McLeod |
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Popeye
Joined: 26 Nov 2006
Posts: 504
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| Posted: Sun May 11, 2008 2:49 pm Post subject: |
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[b]
This morning there was a knock at my door. When I answered the door I found a well groomed, nicely dressed couple. The man spoke first:
John: "Hi! I'm John, and this is Mary."
Mary: "Hi! We're here to invite you to come kiss Hank's ass with us."
Me: "Pardon me?! What are you talking about? Who's Hank, and why would I want to kiss His ass?"
John: "If you kiss Hank's ass, He'll give you a million dollars; and if you don't, He'll kick the sh!t out of you."
Me: "What? Is this some sort of bizarre mob shake-down?"
John: "Hank is a billionaire philanthropist. Hank built this town. Hank owns this town. He can do whatever He wants, and what He wants is to give you a million dollars, but He can't until you kiss His ass."
Me: "That doesn't make any sense. Why..."
Mary: "Who are you to question Hank's gift? Don't you want a million dollars? Isn't it worth a little kiss on the ass?"
Me: "Well maybe, if it's legit, but..."
John: "Then come kiss Hank's ass with us."
Me: "Do you kiss Hank's ass often?"
Mary: "Oh yes, all the time..."
Me: "And has He given you a million dollars?"
John: "Well no. You don't actually get the money until you leave town."
Me: "So why don't you just leave town now?"
Mary: "You can't leave until Hank tells you to, or you don't get the money, and He kicks the sh!t out of you."
Me: "Do you know anyone who kissed Hank's ass, left town, and got the million dollars?"
John: "My mother kissed Hank's ass for years. She left town last year, and I'm sure she got the money."
Me: "Haven't you talked to her since then?"
John: "Of course not, Hank doesn't allow it."
Me: "So what makes you think He'll actually give you the money if you've never talked to anyone who got the money?"
Mary: "Well, He gives you a little bit before you leave. Maybe you'll get a raise, maybe you'll win a small lotto, maybe you'll just find a twenty-dollar bill on the street."
Me: "What's that got to do with Hank?"
John: "Hank has certain 'connections.'"
Me: "I'm sorry, but this sounds like some sort of bizarre con game."
John: "But it's a million dollars, can you really take the chance? And remember, if you don't kiss Hank's ass He'll kick the sh!t out of you."
Me: "Maybe if I could see Hank, talk to Him, get the details straight from Him..."
Mary: "No one sees Hank, no one talks to Hank."
Me: "Then how do you kiss His ass?"
John: "Sometimes we just blow Him a kiss, and think of His ass. Other times we kiss Karl's ass, and he passes it on."
Me: "Who's Karl?"
Mary: "A friend of ours. He's the one who taught us all about kissing Hank's ass. All we had to do was take him out to dinner a few times."
Me: "And you just took his word for it when he said there was a Hank, that Hank wanted you to kiss His ass, and that Hank would reward you?"
John: "Oh no! Karl has a letter he got from Hank years ago explaining the whole thing. Here's a copy; see for yourself."
| Quote: |
From the Desk of Karl
1. Kiss Hank's ass and He'll give you a million dollars when you leave town.
2. Use alcohol in moderation.
3. Kick the sh!t out of people who aren't like you.
4. Eat right.
5. Hank dictated this list Himself.
6. The moon is made of green cheese.
7. Everything Hank says is right.
8. Wash your hands after going to the bathroom.
9. Don't use alcohol.
10. Eat your wieners on buns, no condiments.
11. Kiss Hank's ass or He'll kick the sh!t out of you.
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Me: "This appears to be written on Karl's letterhead."
Mary: "Hank didn't have any paper."
Me: "I have a hunch that if we checked we'd find this is Karl's handwriting."
John: "Of course, Hank dictated it."
Me: "I thought you said no one gets to see Hank?"
Mary: "Not now, but years ago He would talk to some people."
Me: "I thought you said He was a philanthropist. What sort of philanthropist kicks the sh!t out of people just because they're different?"
Mary: "It's what Hank wants, and Hank's always right."
Me: "How do you figure that?"
Mary: "Item 7 says 'Everything Hank says is right.' That's good enough for me!"
Me: "Maybe your friend Karl just made the whole thing up."
John: "No way! Item 5 says 'Hank dictated this list himself.' Besides, item 2 says 'Use alcohol in moderation,' Item 4 says 'Eat right,' and item 8 says 'Wash your hands after going to the bathroom.' Everyone knows those things are right, so the rest must be true, too."
Me: "But 9 says 'Don't use alcohol.' which doesn't quite go with item 2, and 6 says 'The moon is made of green cheese,' which is just plain wrong."
John: "There's no contradiction between 9 and 2, 9 just clarifies 2. As far as 6 goes, you've never been to the moon, so you can't say for sure."
Me: "Scientists have pretty firmly established that the moon is made of rock..."
Mary: "But they don't know if the rock came from the Earth, or from out of space, so it could just as easily be green cheese."
Me: "I'm not really an expert, but I think the theory that the Moon was somehow 'captured' by the Earth has been discounted*. Besides, not knowing where the rock came from doesn't make it cheese."
John: "Ha! You just admitted that scientists make mistakes, but we know Hank is always right!"
Me: "We do?"
Mary: "Of course we do, Item 7 says so."
Me: "You're saying Hank's always right because the list says so, the list is right because Hank dictated it, and we know that Hank dictated it because the list says so. That's circular logic, no different than saying 'Hank's right because He says He's right.'"
John: "Now you're getting it! It's so rewarding to see someone come around to Hank's way of thinking."
Me: "But...oh, never mind. What's the deal with wieners?"
Mary: She blushes.
John: "Wieners, in buns, no condiments. It's Hank's way. Anything else is wrong."
Me: "What if I don't have a bun?"
John: "No bun, no wiener. A wiener without a bun is wrong."
Me: "No relish? No Mustard?"
Mary: She looks positively stricken.
John: He's shouting. "There's no need for such language! Condiments of any kind are wrong!"
Me: "So a big pile of sauerkraut with some wieners chopped up in it would be out of the question?"
Mary: Sticks her fingers in her ears."I am not listening to this. La la la, la la, la la la."
John: "That's disgusting. Only some sort of evil deviant would eat that..."
Me: "It's good! I eat it all the time."
Mary: She faints.
John: He catches Mary. "Well, if I'd known you were one of those I wouldn't have wasted my time. When Hank kicks the sh!t out of you I'll be there, counting my money and laughing. I'll kiss Hank's ass for you, you bunless cut-wienered kraut-eater."
With this, John dragged Mary to their waiting car, and sped off. |
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Intelligent lad
Joined: 12 Oct 2007
Posts: 1157
Location: God's own country,BHARAT(The Saffron Empire)
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| Posted: Sun May 11, 2008 3:02 pm Post subject: |
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Popeye great !!!!!.But you fogot the TAKBIR.... 
HANK AKBAR!!!!!!!!
HANK AKBAR!!!!!!!!
HANK AKBAR!!!!!!!!
HANK AKBAR!!!!!!!!
_________________
ISLAM IS THE CANCER,FFI IS THE ANSWER... |
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Wodan82
Joined: 12 Jul 2004
Posts: 2473
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| Posted: Sun May 11, 2008 6:17 pm Post subject: |
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| STEAM wrote: |
OK. How did he create himself? What were the raw materials used and what was the process which produced the finished product? Where did the raw materials come from and who designed the process? |
Who created the laws of nature?
_________________
1939, T.S. Eliot declared: “When a word acquires a universally sacred character . . . , as has today the word democracy, I begin to wonder, whether, by all it attempts to mean, it still means anything at all.” |
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Samurai_Jack
Joined: 24 Dec 2004
Posts: 2782
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| Posted: Mon May 12, 2008 12:57 am Post subject: |
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| Wodan82 wrote: |
| STEAM wrote: |
OK. How did he create himself? What were the raw materials used and what was the process which produced the finished product? Where did the raw materials come from and who designed the process? |
Who created the laws of nature? |
God
_________________
India is a geographical term. It is no more a united nation than the Equator.
Winston Churchill...Evolutionary fairy tales for grown ups http://www.evolutionfairytale.com/articles_debates/evolutiondefinition.htm |
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Samurai_Jack
Joined: 24 Dec 2004
Posts: 2782
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| Posted: Mon May 12, 2008 1:02 am Post subject: |
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| chiplee wrote: |
| Samurai_Jack wrote: |
| STEAM wrote: |
OK. How did he create himself? What were the raw materials used and what was the process which produced the finished product? Where did the raw materials come from and who designed the process? |
Our minds are too puny to understand God. You are asking how God was created because you live in a world where there is a beggining, a creation and then death. So you judge everthing based on what you know.
God is beyond life or death, beyond your idea of creation. |
like I said, it's ok for God to be beyond our understanding and eternal, but it's not ok for the universe to be beyond our undersanding and eternal. It wouldn't provide the same warm fuzzy feeling if it turned out to be the universe that had always been though would it. That just doesn't make sense does it? The double standard is disgusting.
I just can't get over how lame it is for a believer to say God has always been, and then turn around and say "you have to prove how 'x' began". In one breath they can say "something" is eternal, and in the next they must know how 'x' started.
The same "you live in a world where there is a beginning and an end" argument could be, and often is levied against believers for their refusal to accept that the universe is for all intents and purposes, ETERNAL. |
Hi Chiplee,
We might not be on the same page here. You judge religion based on your experience with Christianity. Ami I right ? I'm talking about God from an Eastern philosophical stand point. In the East, religion is not politics, although it has been abused as such.
My religion God is light and God can manifest to whatever he likes.
You and me will never understand what or who is God. It is like trying to get a monkey to understand Quantum Physics.
In my opinion, God is beyond time, space, physical appearance....beyond everything we know of the world and yet....he can manifest to what he so pleases. Godis beyond life, death, young, old, black, white....yet if he so chooses, he may manifest as such.
_________________
India is a geographical term. It is no more a united nation than the Equator.
Winston Churchill...Evolutionary fairy tales for grown ups http://www.evolutionfairytale.com/articles_debates/evolutiondefinition.htm |
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chiplee
Joined: 01 Nov 2006
Posts: 405
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| Posted: Mon May 12, 2008 3:02 am Post subject: |
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| Samurai_Jack wrote: |
| chiplee wrote: |
| Samurai_Jack wrote: |
| STEAM wrote: |
OK. How did he create himself? What were the raw materials used and what was the process which produced the finished product? Where did the raw materials come from and who designed the process? |
Our minds are too puny to understand God. You are asking how God was created because you live in a world where there is a beggining, a creation and then death. So you judge everthing based on what you know.
God is beyond life or death, beyond your idea of creation. |
like I said, it's ok for God to be beyond our understanding and eternal, but it's not ok for the universe to be beyond our undersanding and eternal. It wouldn't provide the same warm fuzzy feeling if it turned out to be the universe that had always been though would it. That just doesn't make sense does it? The double standard is disgusting.
I just can't get over how lame it is for a believer to say God has always been, and then turn around and say "you have to prove how 'x' began". In one breath they can say "something" is eternal, and in the next they must know how 'x' started.
The same "you live in a world where there is a beginning and an end" argument could be, and often is levied against believers for their refusal to accept that the universe is for all intents and purposes, ETERNAL. |
Hi Chiplee,
We might not be on the same page here. You judge religion based on your experience with Christianity. Ami I right ? I'm talking about God from an Eastern philosophical stand point. In the East, religion is not politics, although it has been abused as such.
My religion God is light and God can manifest to whatever he likes.
You and me will never understand what or who is God. It is like trying to get a monkey to understand Quantum Physics.
In my opinion, God is beyond time, space, physical appearance....beyond everything we know of the world and yet....he can manifest to what he so pleases. Godis beyond life, death, young, old, black, white....yet if he so chooses, he may manifest as such. |
are you islamic then? The christian bible doesn't even say god made the universe. It says in Genesis 1:1 that "in the beginning God created the heaven and the earth". That's it. I wonder who made the rest of the universe?
_________________
"[The Bible] has noble poetry in it... and some good morals and a wealth of obscenity, and upwards of a thousand lies." Mark Twain
"I still say a church steeple with a lightening rod on top shows a lack of confidence."
-- Doug McLeod |
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FreePower
Joined: 27 Mar 2008
Posts: 564
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| Posted: Mon May 12, 2008 3:11 am Post subject: |
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are you islamic then? The christian bible doesn't even say god made the universe. It says in Genesis 1:1 that "in the beginning God created the heaven and the earth". That's it. I wonder who made the rest of the universe? |
In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.
Heavens was a known term for the universe or space.
_________________
The Meeting House - What convinced me - www.themeetinghouse.ca - Irreligious Christians
“The greatest ignorance is to reject something you know nothing about” |
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chiplee
Joined: 01 Nov 2006
Posts: 405
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| Posted: Mon May 12, 2008 3:28 am Post subject: |
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| FreePower wrote: |
| Quote: |
are you islamic then? The christian bible doesn't even say god made the universe. It says in Genesis 1:1 that "in the beginning God created the heaven and the earth". That's it. I wonder who made the rest of the universe? |
In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.
Heavens was a known term for the universe or space. |
some translations say heavens, some say heaven. you amaze me with your knowledge of ancient biblical languages and knowledge of the mind of God and his divine word.
Here are the various translations. This just occured to me today when I saw a billboard that said "God created heaven and earth". I always remembered it as "heavens and earth" but when I saw it that way I thought, hmmm, what about the universe, and the moon and so on? Heaven is outside the known universe so far as we know, so again, considering most translations say "heaven" and not "heavens" who is supposed to have created the universe?
New American Standard Bible
In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.
King James Bible
In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.
American King James Version
In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.
American Standard Version
In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.
Bible in Basic English
At the first God made the heaven and the earth.
Douay-Rheims Bible
In the beginning God created heaven, and earth.
Darby Bible Translation
In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.
English Revised Version
In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.
GOD'S WORD® Translation (©1995)
In the beginning God created heaven and earth.
Jewish Publication Society Tanakh
In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.
Webster's Bible Translation
In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.
Note that the "God's word" translation, a very recent one, doesn't even add "the" in front of heaven. It simply states that god created heaven and earth" No room for interpretation at all there.
_________________
"[The Bible] has noble poetry in it... and some good morals and a wealth of obscenity, and upwards of a thousand lies." Mark Twain
"I still say a church steeple with a lightening rod on top shows a lack of confidence."
-- Doug McLeod |
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