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MUSLIMS LEAVING ISLAM FOR CHRISTIANITY
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capner



Joined: 11 Oct 2005
Posts: 590

PostPosted: Sat Aug 02, 2008 7:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I just love the way the secularists love to talk about the inquisition and the KKK. They make two common mistakes: first, they fail to put matters into proper perspective and second, they love to talk about the brutality of early Christians without ever realizing that early Christians did NOT HAVE ACCESS TO THE SCRIPTURES !!
Perspective from thereligionofpeace.com:

So, you think the Ku Klux Klan
and the Spanish Inquisition are bad?
So do we, but...
Put the Numbers in Perspective


More people are killed by Islamists each year than in all 350 years of the Spanish Inquisition combined. (source)

Islamic terrorists murder more people everyday than the Ku Klux Klan has in the last 50 years. (source)

More civilians were killed by Muslim extremists in two hours on September 11th than in the 36 years of sectarian conflict in Northern Ireland. (source)
19 Muslim hijackers killed more innocents in two hours on September 11th than the number of American criminals executed in the last 65 years. (source)

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diotima64



Joined: 21 Jun 2004
Posts: 16559
Location: middleearth

PostPosted: Sat Aug 02, 2008 7:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

capner wrote:
I just love the way the secularists love to talk about the inquisition and the KKK. They make two common mistakes: first, they fail to put matters into proper perspective and second, they love to talk about the brutality of early Christians without ever realizing that early Christians did NOT HAVE ACCESS TO THE SCRIPTURES !!
Perspective from thereligionofpeace.com:

So, you think the Ku Klux Klan
and the Spanish Inquisition are bad?
So do we, but...



the Klu Klux Klan is an invention of American, 19th century PROTS. They did have access to "scriptures", right?
Hint: the Inquisition iin Spain took place almost 1500 years after Jesus... EARLY Christianity?
More hints... medieval christianity is a VERY complex affair. Do try and learn about it a bit more.

Gee, I really hate that idiotic, brainwashed prot propaganda...
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capner



Joined: 11 Oct 2005
Posts: 590

PostPosted: Sat Aug 02, 2008 7:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Also, secularists conveniently refuse to mention the many millions killed by secularists like Stalin, Hitler, Pol Pot, Idi Amin, and the leaders of the Chinese revolution...... and many others. Even lately the North Vietnamese and the muslim/secularist of Burma. Hell, even Sylvester Stallone is onto the Burma situation.
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SkepticOfBible



Joined: 14 Oct 2007
Posts: 140

PostPosted: Sun Aug 03, 2008 9:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

All right we are sort of going into too many topics, so let's deal with this one thing at a time. First the canon.

Quote:
I would like you to read this article:

http://www.allaboutjesuschrist.org/lost-books-of-the-bible-faq.htm


This sort of proved my point didn't it

the scrolls were freely circulated among the churches, but concerns arose among the churches that letters and books containing less than Christian ideals were being circulated. So, in 397, the Council of Carthage adopted an official canon of books that were considered to be "in" and books that were to be considered "out."

And what did I say?

in other words which evidence lines with conclusion


Furthermore your article states

Divine inspiration solves that problem of human involvement as God insures the results so it doesn't make any difference who does the writing.


And how was it for 350 years Christians could not figure out which books were divine and which were not? Was the council also divinely inspired when they voted about the canon? Is God absolute truth decided through the rule of majority?

Before the Bible became the book we know of today, there was an official collection of books recognized by the church which were called scrolls
"Official collection"????Now who is ignoring the facts? There was no official collection prior to the council, which was why the canon was needed.

Look at my links again. The "official collection" wasn't something that was uniformly agreed upon.

The early church had within its authority to reject as non-canonical certain books, but they are not lost; merely discarded.


And who gave them the authority again? Is there any record that God came in these meetings?

What I find funny about you (and protestants) is that you are willing to accept the Catholic Councils decision about the NT canon but disagree with them about the Deutrocanical book? So now they were divinely inspired only with regards to the NT canon but not the "Old Testament" canon?

If you doubt the council in such a important matter such as your "Old Testament", why do you choose to accept the decision about the NT?

Any books they rejected were never part of their Bible to begin with so the definition of "lost books" is not defined correctly

And here we have a classic case of circular logic

The NT books are divine inspired
We know this because God inspired it
Because God inspired this, therefore the NT books are divinely inspired?


Are you not once again asking me to rely on the opinion of unknown men about which books are written by God?

Btw the canon was well disputed even after the Council of Carthage. Even now the NT Canon is not something is universally agreed upon since there are currently 5-6 different canons in the world(excluding the Mormons)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Books_of_the_Bible#New_Testament


Quote:
I never said the Gospels were infallible, but the message is there,


Maybe you should have added some qualifier when you gave me the article. On one hand you are saying through the article that the Gospels were divinely inspired and on the other hand you are saying that they may contain mistakes? Do you see the implications of your statement?

Quote:

Post the scriptural verse and I will give you an answer.


You didn't read the article did you? If you want me you read your links, please read mine.

http://www.messiahtruth.com/wanted.html

3. In-Gathering of Jewish Exiles to Israel

The Messiah will repatriate the Jewish people from the Diaspora to the promised land of Israel in preparation for the repair of the schism that followed Solomon's reign:

Isaiah 11:12 - And he [Messiah] shall set up a banner for the nations, and shall assemble the outcasts of Israel, and gather the dispersed of Judah from the four corners of the earth. [See also 43:5-6; Jer 16:15, 23:3; Ezek 37:21-22; Zech 10:6-10.]


We will discuss Biblical verses after you have responded to my post about the canon.
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FreePower



Joined: 27 Mar 2008
Posts: 564

PostPosted: Mon Aug 04, 2008 5:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

In particular, the very early Christians did not regard any part of the New Testament as scripture. Later, in developments of the second, third, and fourth centuries, Christians gradually put together patterns of usage that amounted to canons. In the fourth century, when the "bishops took a vote on it," compromises were made between regional church traditions to reach a list of our 27 New Testament books.

The historical argument fails, and the appeal to believers is unsatisfying to unbelievers. Scholars agree: there is no ancient canon, no warrant from Jesus or apostles to use a particular set of books; and there is no one set of clear criteria that can be used to judge whether a book should or should not be canonical, however before you ask me why a certain book was not inserted, you should know what is written within that book, its historical value and why it was most likely rejected.

Furthermore I have not studied the NT Canon in great detail, only what the internet offers me, it would be wise for you to read and research from authoritative minds regarding this subject.

This site would be good for further reference and questions regarding arguments.

http://www.tektonics.org/lp/ntcanon.html
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Tarun



Joined: 20 Sep 2007
Posts: 607

PostPosted: Mon Aug 11, 2008 11:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ram wrote:
But now the Vatican says that the Protestants, Jews and Muslims may also go to heaven.But according to the Vatican, Hindus, Buddhists and the followers of other Eastern religions will burn in hell for ever.


I know of a saying.A beggar says to a woman who could not give alms once in a while 'pettani talli pettakapaaye,pette lanjakemaaye'(The motherly household woman who does not give alms did not give,its O.K,that is not a problem, but what happened to the whore who regularly
gave alms.

Catholics are not burdened with theocratic oppression in the Eastern religious countries and are not turned into second class citizens,yet they go to Hell while Muslims can go to Heaven.
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pvb



Joined: 17 May 2007
Posts: 34

PostPosted: Thu Aug 14, 2008 2:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Peter recognizes Paul's writing as scripture.

2 Peter 3

15Bear in mind that our Lord's patience means salvation, just as our dear brother Paul also wrote you with the wisdom that God gave him. 16He writes the same way in all his letters, speaking in them of these matters. His letters contain some things that are hard to understand, which ignorant and unstable people distort, as they do the other Scriptures, to their own destruction.
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pvb



Joined: 17 May 2007
Posts: 34

PostPosted: Mon Dec 29, 2008 2:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Paul is referring to the scriptures about Jesus ressurrection.:

1 Corinthians 15
3For what I received I passed on to you as of first importance: that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures, 4that he was buried, that he was raised on the third day according to the Scriptures,
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