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Understand religious delusion
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FreePower

Joined: 27 Mar 2008
Posts: 564

Posted: Thu Apr 24, 2008 1:52 am Post subject:

Musti wrote:

FreePower wrote:

I do not believe that the Earth was created in 6 literal days.

Why? Because science has proved it wrong?

FreePower wrote:

Anyhow you can look at Genesis 1, it says in the beginning there was light, so how could there be light if the sun only came later? Well scientists now say that there was light at the time of the Big Bang.

The probable reason why light existed before the sun is because the author was unaware the sun was needed for daylight, just like the Korans author.

Just because they were less advanced than us, its common sense to realize the sun gives light. Even a child knows that. Now moving on, in the beginning when there was no sun there was no way to measure a day, so in reality a "Day" could literally mean any number of years.

Anyhow I don't see this argument leading anywhere, we have all made up our minds about the subject, at least I have somewhere to hope for when I die. Call me a fool but look into the near death experiences of people who were clinically brain dead for 10 minutes or more and see what they say about death.
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The Meeting House - What convinced me - www.themeetinghouse.ca - Irreligious Christians

“The greatest ignorance is to reject something you know nothing about”

Musti

Joined: 28 Dec 2004
Posts: 912

Posted: Thu Apr 24, 2008 8:35 pm Post subject:

FreePower wrote:

Just because they were less advanced than us, its common sense to realize the sun gives light..

Not true. It may be common sense the sun provides a source of sunlight but not daylight according to the bible and the koran and many ancient cultures.

Here is a link with more information.

Another important concept in understanding the ANE context is the separation of daylight from sunlight. In the ancient world the light of dawn was different than the direct light of the sun. Daylight occurs an hour to two hours before the sun rises, and continues for an hour or more after the sun sets. In this pre-scientific age daylight was not the result of the sun light. When this is clearly understood many verses of the Bible, and the creation of the sun on day four fall into place.

http://www.bibleandscience.com/bible/books/genesis/genesis1_light.htm

FreePower wrote:

Now moving on, in the beginning when there was no sun there was no way to measure a day, so in reality a "Day" could literally mean any number of years...

This still contradicts the order of how things appeared on earth.
You may find this link informative.

http://www.vexen.co.uk/religion/christianity_7daycreation.html

FreePower wrote:

Anyhow I don't see this argument leading anywhere, we have all made up our minds about the subject, at least I have somewhere to hope for when I die. Call me a fool but look into the near death experiences of people who were clinically brain dead for 10 minutes or more and see what they say about death.

I have made my mind by analysing the Bible logically as I have an open mind. It is clearly a book written by men who repeat the common myths of that time just like the Koran. Which is clear proof it isn't from an all knowing perfect God. Does being decieved by liars who lived thousands of years ago make you a fool? Only you can answer.
As for near death experiences, there are scientific explanation for this but either way NDE do not validate the Bible in any way.
The point is if you lived back when the Bible was written you would believe the literature to be literal. But because science has now proven the Bible to be in error you cherry pick what is literal and what is metaphor.
How can a book from God be so unclear and misleading?

FreePower

Joined: 27 Mar 2008
Posts: 564

Posted: Thu Apr 24, 2008 10:10 pm Post subject:

Musti wrote:

FreePower wrote:

Just because they were less advanced than us, its common sense to realize the sun gives light..

FreePower wrote:

Now moving on, in the beginning when there was no sun there was no way to measure a day, so in reality a "Day" could literally mean any number of years...

This still contradicts the order of how things appeared on earth.
You may find this link informative.

http://www.vexen.co.uk/religion/christianity_7daycreation.html

FreePower wrote:

Just like you presented me a site proving the bible is wrong, here is a site about science and the bible.

http://www.clarifyingchristianity.com/science.shtml

And yes even if the bible has errors, the Torah was written long ago, but my faith is on Jesus and him alone. I do not put my faith on certain scientific facts for Gods existence. I only showed you the NDEs because I find them to be of some interest when dealing with spirituality. Yet find me a scientific explanation for the brain dead people who still see images.

Most of the stories in the bible, like Noah's Ark, are meant to teach a lesson, the problem is people start taking everything word by word and then it looses its whole purpose. When reading any other book you do not take things literally and metaphors are used as well, the same goes for any conversation, so just because its the bible people think they have to take it word by word.
_________________
The Meeting House - What convinced me - www.themeetinghouse.ca - Irreligious Christians

“The greatest ignorance is to reject something you know nothing about”

Musti

Joined: 28 Dec 2004
Posts: 912

Posted: Fri Apr 25, 2008 7:09 pm Post subject:

FreePower wrote:

Musti wrote:

FreePower wrote:

Just because they were less advanced than us, its common sense to realize the sun gives light..

FreePower wrote:

Now moving on, in the beginning when there was no sun there was no way to measure a day, so in reality a "Day" could literally mean any number of years...

This still contradicts the order of how things appeared on earth.
You may find this link informative.

http://www.vexen.co.uk/religion/christianity_7daycreation.html

FreePower wrote:

The reason I gave you the links were to show you that you were wrong regarding that it was common sense for people to know the sun was responsible for daylight. I have provided evidence this is not the case and that the bible repeats this error. The second link shows that no matter how long a year is it still contradicts the way things appeared on earth. Your link does not provide any evidence against this and is full of apologetics, just like Islamic websites. But the point is if you lived back then you would of taken many parts of the text as literal as it repeats myths that were common back then, yet you would of been misled in doing so. At the end of the day if you are happy following a book that contains myths and fables of that era as Gods work and guidance for mankind then that's obviously your choice.

FreePower

Joined: 27 Mar 2008
Posts: 564

Posted: Sat Apr 26, 2008 4:52 am Post subject:

Quote:

What you presented me is speculation from people who weren't around in that era. And if you were trying to explain creation to a semi-primitive society, I don't think they would understand things as we do now if it was handed to them.

Keep in mind back then things were written on stone tablets and possibly papyrus's depending on the story. Usually one person was responsible for reading the text and who knows how they taught each story, whenever someone tells a story they also try to explain the moral of the story along with it.

And if you look at the Old Testament its a book of guidance, it shows how Gods people failed over and over again and rebelled against him. That is what the old testament shows. But as I said my faith is on Jesus and his teachings, I don't think many people are against them in any way.
_________________
The Meeting House - What convinced me - www.themeetinghouse.ca - Irreligious Christians

“The greatest ignorance is to reject something you know nothing about”

Musti

Joined: 28 Dec 2004
Posts: 912

Posted: Thu May 15, 2008 5:06 pm Post subject:

FreePower wrote:

What you presented me is speculation from people who weren't around in that era.

Its called evidence which can be used to reach logical conclusions. The evidence indicates that primitive people were unaware that the sun was needed for day. It says the same in the Koran, yet you claimed it was common sense everyone knew Sun was needed for day!?
You were the one relying on speculation when you claimed this and when you amusingly suggested the bible contained a scientific miracle that sun was not needed for days to exist after the big bang!!
In fact your belief in Christianity is one big speculation, think about it.

FreePower wrote:

And if you were trying to explain creation to a semi-primitive society, I don't think they would understand things as we do now if it was handed to them.
Keep in mind back then things were written on stone tablets and possibly papyrus's depending on the story. Usually one person was responsible for reading the text and who knows how they taught each story, whenever someone tells a story they also try to explain the moral of the story along with it.

So?

FreePower wrote:

And if you look at the Old Testament its a book of guidance, it shows how Gods people failed over and over again and rebelled against him. That is what the old testament shows. But as I said my faith is on Jesus and his teachings, I don't think many people are against them in any way.

Why would you follow a book that contains many myths of that era, which is evidence that it was written by a primitive individual and not God.

Samurai_Jack

Joined: 24 Dec 2004
Posts: 2782

Posted: Sat May 17, 2008 3:49 am Post subject:

FreePower wrote:

It basically goes like this:

In the Old Jewish times, hundreds/thousands of years before Jesus they were given laws to make animal sacrifices to atone for their sins, usually they would choose the purest animal such as a young lamb.

How is a lamb more pure then say, a chicken or a duck ?

Quote:

However through prophets God told that there would be a day when the relationship that was severed between humans and God would be restored. So Jesus came, took religion away and he was the perfect lamb, just like the sacrifices of old, his blood washed away the sins of all the humans, God chose a symbolic way of doing this. And yes Jesus forgave people on the spot when they asked for it. He also performed miracles to show that his power of forgiving sins had divine right behind it.

So if one were to join the Christian religion, one's sin would be 'washed away' immediately ? Are you sure ? I advise you to think before answering.

Quote:

Now that Jesus came, died for us and resurrected therefore beating sin and death itself, we live in grace and not in law anymore, we should focus our lives around love and then everything else we do will be always be around what is the best for our neighbor. No more religious laws, rituals, customs, Jesus took all that away, and for those Christians that do those kinds of things they need to revisit the Bible and see what Jesus's whole message and purpose was about.

Has that ever happened after the Church was established ?
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India is a geographical term. It is no more a united nation than the Equator.
Winston Churchill...Evolutionary fairy tales for grown ups http://www.evolutionfairytale.com/articles_debates/evolutiondefinition.htm

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