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LoveChild
Joined: 26 Jun 2006
Posts: 290
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 Posted: Mon Jan 14, 2008 1:15 am Post subject: |
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| Samurai_Jack wrote: |
If I had to choose between your standard and muslim standards, i will follow Muslim standards. I am a male so Muslims standards gives me more. |
There you go!! This is what it all comes down to.
Morality "Samurai_Jack-style".
I believe most of those, who blindly supported the Saudi guy and attacked the woman, are more or less affected by this condition.
Only SJ was "honest" enough to say it straight, instead of hiding behind big words.
Thanks SJ.  |
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ex-jinni
Joined: 14 Jun 2007
Posts: 794
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| Posted: Mon Jan 14, 2008 2:27 am Post subject: |
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Before I met my girlfriend I was a free lancer . I used to have affairs with married women . the most easy ones to have an affair with are usually ones who are married to guys who suspect their wives . you know the kind that question their wives about every detail , small of big .
What made it easy was their constant need to know . see when they called her to check on her she knew they where they were and how far they were .lool .
One time though I had to jump out the window . I crashed onto the porch roof and rolled down and ran like there is no tomorrow with my pants in one hand and the shoes in the other . it was realy serious . the husband was hsooting bullets not swinging a samurai sword at me .
I swear to you . the first thing i knew was boooooom. he shot right throw the front door .
Hey prisons do not work . even high security prisons don’t .
Hey in Saudi Arabia watch out for the fitting rooms. Fittings room there are action backed . |
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jake157
Joined: 11 Jan 2008
Posts: 12
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| Posted: Mon Jan 14, 2008 3:07 am Post subject: |
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| ex-jinni wrote: |
Before I met my girlfriend I was a free lancer . I used to have affairs with married women . the most easy ones to have an affair with are usually ones who are married to guys who suspect their wives . you know the kind that question their wives about every detail , small of big .
What made it easy was their constant need to know . see when they called her to check on her she knew they where they were and how far they were .lool .
One time though I had to jump out the window . I crashed onto the porch roof and rolled down and ran like there is no tomorrow with my pants in one hand and the shoes in the other . it was realy serious . the husband was hsooting bullets not swinging a samurai sword at me .
I swear to you . the first thing i knew was boooooom. he shot right throw the front door .
Hey prisons do not work . even high security prisons don’t .
Hey in Saudi Arabia watch out for the fitting rooms. Fittings room there are action backed . |
damn he missed |
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ex-jinni
Joined: 14 Jun 2007
Posts: 794
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| Posted: Mon Jan 14, 2008 4:00 am Post subject: |
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hey you know the funny thing when he found out no one there because i was gone and he didn't see me he was so sorry and kept apologizing to her for suspecting her and shooting through the door . she told me the whole story the next time we met . we cracked up about it so much.
hey in a way i kept that marriage going by providng what was missing in it . i liked that couple a lot and i felt that what i was doing was good for their reltionship and it was . |
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bloodcrazedmuslim
Joined: 06 Aug 2005
Posts: 1978
Location: Islamic hellhole
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| Posted: Mon Jan 14, 2008 5:43 am Post subject: |
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| Samurai_Jack wrote: |
| katlike wrote: |
SJ:
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| I'm sorry when I say this but to me, your values are decadent and immoral. I will never submit to them. |
Why because I would never cheat on my husband, nor would he treat me that way? We value our marriage. What is so decadent and immoral about that? Please explain. |
Hi Katlike,
I'm really tired of this thread so this may be my last response. Perhaps you can start a new thread in the Lounge comparing Western and Eastern values.
I find your values decadent and immoral because you have to 'kiss up' to ask your husband about a piece of paper with a number given by a stranger. I'm sorry, but I find that repulsive. In the East, relationship are open, one partner can ask a direct question to the other. I prefer that.
Also, there is no such thing as a 'private matter' between 2 married people in East. Every information is 'public' to the other. This is what I grew up to this is what I will always remain to. I find you saying that recieving a telephone number from a male stranger 'private' from her hubby gross.
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| Fine don't submit to committing yourself to one person and one person alone. It is a big step and not for the faint of heart. This is the part you are unable to understand...I take marriage seriously, and will not let some assumption, no matter how true, destroy my marriage. Do you even understand that it would take more than my assuming my husband was cheating for me to throw in the towel? Why do you call my values decandent and immoral? I just do not understand it. |
Look above for answer
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| I'm sorry but I find that repulsive. Yuck ! I have to 'kiss up' to find out if my partner is being faithful. |
Ahh but see, your assuming your partner is a cheater, I would never assume that of my husband. If he didn't want to tell me, he has his reasons, cheating would not be at the top of the list, I am kissing up to find out his secrets. Funny how your thoughts automatically go to infedility. Mine don't. |
What makes you believe by asking such questions equates to believing she's cheating ? Why do you assume the negative ? This is perverse. A relationship should be honest and open. If one partner has doubts, she/he should have the right ask outright and not 'play games' to get that information.
When you ask your boss for your paycheck, is it because you suspect he is cheating you on your wages ?
When you ask your business partner for receipts, is it because you assume he is cheating you in profits ?
When you ask your children where have they been the whole day, is it because you assume they have been up to no good ?
Why do you assume the negative so fast ? Why can it be not for clearing a doubt or just for the fact of knowing ?
Your relationship with your husband is not 'open'. You lack the freedom to ask a direct question, so you have to play games. I pity you.
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| But that is what you were advocating earlier. Earlier, you said that it's ok for the woman in the story to keep this paper private since Arab women are not allowed privacy. This is hypocrisy. One wrong does not make another wrong right. |
Not hypocrisy on my part. Reread what I have written. Marriage is not about giving up one's privacy, women are not automatically cheaters, nor are men. Your the one claiming that, not me. I just said, adults have a right to privacy that marriage does not nullify. Hypocrisy is allowing men the right to privacy but not women. The right to privacy does not include the right to decieve, why are you confusing the two? |
This is where we disagree. I'm sorry but I do not believe in your culture and norms nor will I ever do. You can keep your 'private matters with your husband, it is of no concern to me. But my relationship with my wife will be totally open.
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| Your idea of 'basic rights' to me is like saying a criminal should have the right to steal. |
How so? |
Recieving a piece of paper from a male stranger is not a 'private matter' in a marriage, based on eastern standards.
[ |
Its not OK based on western standards either, I dont know anyone save for some really really p***y - whipped guys who would accept that kind of behaviour.
_________________
" Send all the Muslims out of the West. They are all the same. Disgusting is a mild word."
"I don’t see Muslims as innocent people. They are all guilty as sin" (Ali Sina) |
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Realist
Joined: 26 Jul 2006
Posts: 3623
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| Posted: Mon Jan 14, 2008 11:11 am Post subject: |
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| bloodcrazedmuslim wrote: |
| Samurai_Jack wrote: |
| katlike wrote: |
SJ:
| Quote: |
| I'm sorry when I say this but to me, your values are decadent and immoral. I will never submit to them. |
Why because I would never cheat on my husband, nor would he treat me that way? We value our marriage. What is so decadent and immoral about that? Please explain. |
Hi Katlike,
I'm really tired of this thread so this may be my last response. Perhaps you can start a new thread in the Lounge comparing Western and Eastern values.
I find your values decadent and immoral because you have to 'kiss up' to ask your husband about a piece of paper with a number given by a stranger. I'm sorry, but I find that repulsive. In the East, relationship are open, one partner can ask a direct question to the other. I prefer that.
Also, there is no such thing as a 'private matter' between 2 married people in East. Every information is 'public' to the other. This is what I grew up to this is what I will always remain to. I find you saying that recieving a telephone number from a male stranger 'private' from her hubby gross.
| Quote: |
| Fine don't submit to committing yourself to one person and one person alone. It is a big step and not for the faint of heart. This is the part you are unable to understand...I take marriage seriously, and will not let some assumption, no matter how true, destroy my marriage. Do you even understand that it would take more than my assuming my husband was cheating for me to throw in the towel? Why do you call my values decandent and immoral? I just do not understand it. |
Look above for answer
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| Quote: |
| I'm sorry but I find that repulsive. Yuck ! I have to 'kiss up' to find out if my partner is being faithful. |
Ahh but see, your assuming your partner is a cheater, I would never assume that of my husband. If he didn't want to tell me, he has his reasons, cheating would not be at the top of the list, I am kissing up to find out his secrets. Funny how your thoughts automatically go to infedility. Mine don't. |
What makes you believe by asking such questions equates to believing she's cheating ? Why do you assume the negative ? This is perverse. A relationship should be honest and open. If one partner has doubts, she/he should have the right ask outright and not 'play games' to get that information.
When you ask your boss for your paycheck, is it because you suspect he is cheating you on your wages ?
When you ask your business partner for receipts, is it because you assume he is cheating you in profits ?
When you ask your children where have they been the whole day, is it because you assume they have been up to no good ?
Why do you assume the negative so fast ? Why can it be not for clearing a doubt or just for the fact of knowing ?
Your relationship with your husband is not 'open'. You lack the freedom to ask a direct question, so you have to play games. I pity you.
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| Quote: |
| But that is what you were advocating earlier. Earlier, you said that it's ok for the woman in the story to keep this paper private since Arab women are not allowed privacy. This is hypocrisy. One wrong does not make another wrong right. |
Not hypocrisy on my part. Reread what I have written. Marriage is not about giving up one's privacy, women are not automatically cheaters, nor are men. Your the one claiming that, not me. I just said, adults have a right to privacy that marriage does not nullify. Hypocrisy is allowing men the right to privacy but not women. The right to privacy does not include the right to decieve, why are you confusing the two? |
This is where we disagree. I'm sorry but I do not believe in your culture and norms nor will I ever do. You can keep your 'private matters with your husband, it is of no concern to me. But my relationship with my wife will be totally open.
| Quote: |
| Quote: |
| Your idea of 'basic rights' to me is like saying a criminal should have the right to steal. |
How so? |
Recieving a piece of paper from a male stranger is not a 'private matter' in a marriage, based on eastern standards.
[ |
Its not OK based on western standards either, I dont know anyone save for some really really p***y - whipped guys who would accept that kind of behaviour. |
But its NOT PROOF of any misbehaviour
_________________
Honour and Pride have no place in Islam. XXX in a thread on Honour Killing.
Islam is a BUFFET you just select which bits you like and dismiss the rest. Ahmed Bahgat
Whats the drink called that allah says BEES make? Berber says 'I dont know' |
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melati
Joined: 30 Apr 2006
Posts: 598
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| Posted: Mon Jan 14, 2008 8:19 pm Post subject: Re: Bread, Milk & a divorce please! |
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| Ali Sina wrote: |
| Black Trident wrote: |
But at least he should have tried reasoning with her before deciding on the divorce. And he could have done it in private, not through a microphone. |
What is there to reason? She is caught red handed and that is the end of the marriage as far as I am concerned. It is she who should have talked to him if there was a problem in their marriage and demanded divorce before cheating on him.
As far as doing it in public, I also understand. He was too hurt to be rational about it. I am a private person and do not like scandal. So my nature tells me to keep such things quite. He obviously has a different nature and I do not blame him a bit.
Hell, when I am with a woman, all other women become asexual to me. I cannot understand what goes in the mind of people who cheat on their spouses. How can they do it? |
Taking a piece of paper is not cheating. People try to hand me ads and papers all the time at malls--it took me a while to realize i had to stand up to them and refuse. Given the horrendous treatment females in SA recieve from birth, I imagine women there tend to be more meek than men. Men have given me their phone numbers--I may take them just to be polite even though Ihave no intention of calling.
Her only mistake was not pretending to be invisible to a male non relative. It may just get her stoned to death for adultry. |
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Danish
Joined: 25 Dec 2004
Posts: 1076
Location: USA
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| Posted: Tue Jan 15, 2008 12:22 am Post subject: |
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Saudi Arabian rules, regulations and conditions dictate their own culture and lifestyles and cannot be viewed from western chauvinistic mindsets. Unlike western women, the Saudi females, especially married ones, already know this and are attuned to their ways and means of survival yet one always find those that disobey. This is natural, happens everywhere and the unpleasant consequences follow thereafter.
In any case, whether western or eastern, the intention to accepting a phone number from a complete stranger, hiding it in her purse and then her gutsy cunning refusal to expose and explain when confronted by her husband in front of her children, is a total loss for the women that led to believing in her guilt to invitation, a cheating heart and the negative effect on her own children. Imagine the children growing up and learning the tactics of her mother and finding themselves in similar situations. As per the case presented and most logically deciphered, there’s no other explanation for such refractory behavior. Any other renditions would be musical.
If I were in that situation regardless of location, I certainly would be ticked off and concerned, and more so alarmed by her refusal to let it out when approached or questioned even if we were in the best of our relationship. It would imply that something is wrong with that woman for not being upfront in a place where flirting and dating seems common. It's a question of integrity. This would further pave other nightmares into ones’ relationship which otherwise would have been unnecessary to begin with. The woman is guilty as charged and the husband made the right decision to terminate his relationship as reflected and as per the laws of the land to orally announce a divorce. It not only served the purpose on both sides of the fences but also taught a good lesson to all those witnessing at the mall, discussing on cyberspace and exercising their rites to refrain from such unpleasant acts in future or come forward and explain youselves. If not, then bear the consequences and start grunting and mourning your lives long, as is clearly being displayed here by those who support such acts.
Such cases and even more dreadful ones happen in western societies as well where I’ve witnessed spouses run amuck over petty stuff threatening and barging over the other and their associates, leading eventually to punishments, separations and someone getting badly hurt. Same situations have arisen among relationships between gays, lesbians and unmarried “partners” when watching 20/20, Oprah Winfrey, Dr. Phil, soap oprahs/dramas and news media here in the USofA. This has nothing to do with religion. Morality and faithfulness of spouses must be solemn in trust, honesty and love between them for the purpose of living a meaningful married life. Yet many are found to sacrifice their relationships for whatever unavoidable or difficult circumstances they are already in, such as children, financial instability, joblessness, loneliness, etc. where they have no means or no where to turn to but remain sacrosanct or until some sort of change or opportunity occurs.
_________________
Nature dictates conditions of reality to living a circumstantial way of life. Life is Reality, Reality is Nature and Nature is Supreme. Love and Live by Reality in Nature. ~ Danish. |
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LoveChild
Joined: 26 Jun 2006
Posts: 290
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| Posted: Tue Jan 15, 2008 1:16 am Post subject: |
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| Danish wrote: |
| It would imply that something is wrong with that woman for not being upfront in a place where flirting and dating seems common. |
Really? I didn't know that. So now shopping malls in SA are full of flirting and dating people? Interesting.
Would you mind explaining to me, by the way, how the ladies manage to flirt, while wearing a burkha? Please tell me, what they do in order to get the attention of a total stranger so skillfully, that they receive his phone number in a blink of an eye. And they do it not only in public, but also in the presence of their children and husbands nearby.. Real art.
You know how burkha looks like, right?
Also, tell me some more about this dating so common in the malls over there, if you don't mind.
| Quote: |
Such cases and even more dreadful ones happen in western societies as well where I’ve witnessed spouses run amuck over petty stuff threatening and barging over the other and their associates, leading eventually to punishments, separations and someone getting badly hurt. Same situations have arisen among relationships between gays, lesbians and unmarried “partners” when watching 20/20, Oprah Winfrey, Dr. Phil, soap oprahs/dramas and news media here in the USofA. |
Yes, these shows are hilarious, but you know what? What you see there is not an element of an average person's daily life. If it was, they wouldn't be making shows about it. And you know what else? I bet there would be a lot more "interesting" shows about life in Saudi Arabia - if only they were making them. |
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IandonlyI
Joined: 26 Aug 2006
Posts: 2884
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| Posted: Tue Jan 15, 2008 4:05 am Post subject: |
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I don tunderstand Arab world. If these videos are shown on Arab TV than why are people so narrow minded and stuff? Either way the girl is very pretty, Actually, HOT.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5UjRoWpHAE8&feature=related
_________________
If you cannot see god in all, how can you see god at all? |
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IandonlyI
Joined: 26 Aug 2006
Posts: 2884
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| Posted: Tue Jan 15, 2008 4:08 am Post subject: |
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Sorry I read later that she is Labenese. I know lebenon is much more modern than rest of the middle east.
_________________
If you cannot see god in all, how can you see god at all? |
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Sally
Joined: 17 Nov 2007
Posts: 438
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| Posted: Tue Jan 15, 2008 5:10 am Post subject: |
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Are these views fascist?
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am a secular humanist and I derive my morality from the Golden Rule. However, I admit that secular humanism is not for everyone. You need to have reached a certain maturity to be able to live responsibly. Not everyone is capable of that.
According to Quantcast.com "This site appeals to a more educated, primarily older group." One would expect that at least members of this site, are capable of understanding simple concepts of logics as repeatedly described by Roshan. Despite that one can witness that this is not the case. Basically we are talking to a wall. We are not even on the same page. If this is the level of comprehension of the more educated and primarily older and wiser people of the society, how do you expect that the ordinary people in the street grasp the concepts of right and wrong and opt to do the right thing on their own and without being told by someone else?
I have no problem living by the Golden Rule. I have always done that even when I was young. Do you think the masses of people are also ready? I have serious doubts. The more I observe the deplorable state of the society and the inability of the masses to grasp simple logical concepts, the more my doubts increases. I am coming to the belief that we need a two tier system of beliefs, one for the elite (khas) and one for the masses (aam). This is somewhat the Ismailites and particularly the followers of Hasan Sabbah taught a thousand years ago. The elite can find its own way and has no problem choosing the right over the wrong. The elite does not need any religion. The masses are not ready for that. The masses have no comprehension of the simple concepts of logics. How can they understand the complexities of ethics? I do not have trust in the masses. Isn't understanding a prerequisite of discernment? How can those who do not understand discern right from wrong? It is because of this that I think religion is still needed.
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Danish
Joined: 25 Dec 2004
Posts: 1076
Location: USA
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| Posted: Tue Jan 15, 2008 5:11 am Post subject: |
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| LoveChild wrote: |
| Danish wrote: |
| It would imply that something is wrong with that woman for not being upfront in a place where flirting and dating seems common. |
Really? I didn't know that. So now shopping malls in SA are full of flirting and dating people? Interesting. |
Yes, really and quite interesting. Google and research on "Girls in Riyadh" or "Riyadh Malls" or "Saudi Arabian Culture" and so on and read and understand about them. Here's a couple:
http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9B06EEDD143CF936A35751C1A9669C8B63
http://www.arabworldbooks.com/Readers2006/articles/driven_attraction.htm
| Quote: |
Would you mind explaining to me, by the way, how the ladies manage to flirt, while wearing a burkha? Please tell me, what they do in order to get the attention of a total stranger so skillfully, that they receive his phone number in a blink of an eye. And they do it not only in public, but also in the presence of their children and husbands nearby.. Real art.
You know how burkha looks like, right? |
Well, given the nature of females and their bodily gestures and displays, clothes are not the only gadget of flirtation introduced towards men even when they are fully covered. Not all women are totally covered up. The term “head-to-toe” does not necessarily constitute face and hands and obviously not the feet. All these can be pretty much "dressed up" and fixated for a good invitation. Some of the dresses have cuts from below and some full front buttoning. Nowadays these dresses are more fashionable and revealing. Even the “first lady” of USofA is not allowed concessions in dress code and is seen covered up when visiting these places.
But once again, study their cultures, dress codes and understand what it is all about from their perspectives (Arabian), not yours (westernized). You need to also learn about abaya, niqaab, jilbab, hijab, chador, dupatta, ridah, etc. rather than just burkha. If you are unfamiliar with these terms, their usage, similarities and how, when, where and why they are worn and what females can and cannot do while wearing them, then I suggest you do some research and get first hand knowledge. The following links may help define Islamic dress codes:
http://www.time.com/time/photoessays/2006/muslim_fashion/
http://www.jelbab.com/Abaya.asp
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sartorial_hijab
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Such cases and even more dreadful ones happen in western societies as well where I’ve witnessed spouses run amuck over petty stuff threatening and barging over the other and their associates, leading eventually to punishments, separations and someone getting badly hurt. Same situations have arisen among relationships between gays, lesbians and unmarried “partners” when watching 20/20, Oprah Winfrey, Dr. Phil, soap oprahs/dramas and news media here in the USofA.
Yes, these shows are hilarious, but you know what? What you see there is not an element of an average person's daily life. If it was, they wouldn't be making shows about it. And you know what else? . |
No, it is and that's why they are making real live shows displaying their troubled lifestyles. For you it seems hilarious because you hesitate to comperhend the countless problems that exist within your own western societies, perhaps because it seems all zesty in the name of free-style.
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| I bet there would be a lot more "interesting" shows about life in Saudi Arabia - if only they were making them. |
Yeah, I bet that too, but enough exposure is rampant all over the net and forums like this one about Saudi Arabian culture and Islamic ideologies, including that of females. Men are not alone in these ventures and secret rendezvous.
_________________
Nature dictates conditions of reality to living a circumstantial way of life. Life is Reality, Reality is Nature and Nature is Supreme. Love and Live by Reality in Nature. ~ Danish. |
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Nymph
Joined: 09 Jul 2007
Posts: 461
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| Posted: Tue Jan 15, 2008 5:21 am Post subject: |
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eek, female paedophile video.
Is it possible that the husband set her up? Why did he say he was going when he was actually watching her carefully? Sounds like a set-up to me.
She could have gotten the number to be polite and to get rid of the young guy " I won't leave until you get it" and she was afraid of what her paranoid, violent husband would do. These Mohammedan guys are often like this, seeing into everything and getting paranoid and violent over every imagined pretense.
What woman would want to cheat on her husband knowing that the penalty was death? And how would she leave the house without her male relatives to go screw the guy?
Trust me, if I lived in SA my only concern would be how to not get killed by my family members. |
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Nymph
Joined: 09 Jul 2007
Posts: 461
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| Posted: Tue Jan 15, 2008 5:22 am Post subject: |
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| and it's obvious their marriage was not based on love. |
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