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ibn_rushd2
Joined: 14 Feb 2004
Posts: 2454
Location: Canada
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 Posted: Sat Jul 28, 2007 3:09 am Post subject: |
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| Baal wrote: |
| Jews are a race. You can only join if your mother is jewish. If your father is jewish it is not enough. Because a father can never be really sure if the kids are really his. What more of a prerequisite for it to become a race then? |
Then how come ppl have converted to Judaism? Intermarriage is high too in the US. Jews aren't a race because they aren't all black or white or any other color. |
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Baal
Joined: 07 Jun 2006
Posts: 4418
Location: Egypt
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| Posted: Sat Jul 28, 2007 5:23 am Post subject: |
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| ibn_rushd2 wrote: |
| Baal wrote: |
| Jews are a race. You can only join if your mother is jewish. If your father is jewish it is not enough. Because a father can never be really sure if the kids are really his. What more of a prerequisite for it to become a race then? |
Then how come ppl have converted to Judaism? Intermarriage is high too in the US. Jews aren't a race because they aren't all black or white or any other color. |
Who converted to Judaism? gentiles?
_________________
"Kad Kazab Alayna Muhammed"
Islam is Not Genetically Inherited from your Parents.
"Child brides in non-Western society is about love, marriage and husband and wife bonds." - AMuslim arguing for his Nabey Al-Saleh |
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Nymph
Joined: 09 Jul 2007
Posts: 461
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| Posted: Sat Jul 28, 2007 6:36 am Post subject: |
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| Baal wrote: |
| ibn_rushd2 wrote: |
| Baal wrote: |
| Jews are a race. You can only join if your mother is jewish. If your father is jewish it is not enough. Because a father can never be really sure if the kids are really his. What more of a prerequisite for it to become a race then? |
Then how come ppl have converted to Judaism? Intermarriage is high too in the US. Jews aren't a race because they aren't all black or white or any other color. |
Who converted to Judaism? gentiles? |
I know people who have converted because of marriage. Often times it is the woman who wants her kids raised as Jewish. Jews do have a conversion ritual and it involves a baptism of sorts.
Typically, the convert was originally Christian, either Protestant or Catholic but I have known more converts from Catholicism. It usually is not a big deal for them if they aren't Orthodox because Reform Jews are pretty much mellow Deists like lots of moderate Christians.
Christians don't have strict rules as to whose religion the kids follow, the couple decides, but usually it is the mother's religion because she is their first teacher and women tend to be more religious here in the US. I know for a fact a father cannot get his child baptized without the mother's consent in the Russian Orthodox Church.
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There are eleven things which are impure: urine, excrement, sperm, bones, blood, dogs, pigs, non-Muslim men and women, wine, beer, and the sweat of the excrement-eating camel.
-Ayatollah Khomeini's little green book |
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Nymph
Joined: 09 Jul 2007
Posts: 461
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| Posted: Sat Jul 28, 2007 6:53 am Post subject: |
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| IamThat wrote: |
I will be glad to reconsider my argument but I find it very wrong that a person who claims he is a Prophet upheld such a barbaric custom in the first place but what about their claim that Pedophiles are not married to their victims and they abuse more than one child but Muhammad was married to Aisha and did not have sex with here till her menaces and Muhammad did not sleep with any other girl? More over it was custom in those days that children get married young and the parents of Aisha or the villagers never rasised any question of morality. So how do we explain this?
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I repeat, do you understand that LITTLE GIRLS OF 9 YEARS OLD NEVER WANT TO GET FUQQED BY 52 YEAR OLD MEN, EVER!!!!!!!!!NOT IN 7 AD, NOT IN THE 7th CENTURY, NOR IN THE 1970's
You mention parents and villagers. So what . We all know that adults can be cruel and selfish, and this marriage was strategic to MahaMood.
This never meant he needed to consumate it while she was still young. And, at 6, she was still too young to really consent to getting married in the first place.
When I was 9 I thought boys my own age were icky.
When I was 8, a "wonderful" man from my mom's culture tried to molest me (I yelled for help and my grandmother came to my rescue before anything really bad happened) Luckily, I was not blamed for his behavior. Let me tell you firsthand, I was 3 months shy of 9 and there was nothing he could do to my body I would have liked, ever.
It is a horrible thing for a so-called man of god to do. And then all these Muslims follow his example and marry little girls. So wrong.
There is no excuse, even if he married her he should have waited until she was at the very very least a teenager.
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There are eleven things which are impure: urine, excrement, sperm, bones, blood, dogs, pigs, non-Muslim men and women, wine, beer, and the sweat of the excrement-eating camel.
-Ayatollah Khomeini's little green book |
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Realist
Joined: 26 Jul 2006
Posts: 3623
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| Posted: Sat Jul 28, 2007 8:21 am Post subject: |
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| IamThat wrote: |
I will be glad to reconsider my argument but I find it very wrong that a person who claims he is a Prophet upheld such a barbaric custom in the first place but what about their claim that Pedophiles are not married to their victims and they abuse more than one child but Muhammad was married to Aisha and did not have sex with here till her menaces and Muhammad did not sleep with any other girl? More over it was custom in those days that children get married young and the parents of Aisha or the villagers never rasised any question of morality. So how do we explain this?
I have given two points too the Muslims, 1) the sun sets in a muddy pool because from another verse it says that the sun dawned from a grass field or something. So its poetic explanations. The 2nd point is this Phedo issue, where it seems to have been a culture. However i see that a 52 yr old man who claims to be a Prophet should have not followed the custom in the first place, he should have been forward thinking enough to abandon this custom but Muhammad thought through the wrong head in this occasion.
If you go back in this thread you will see i have argued the same point in the beginning. We cant be adamant on all points thats counter productive. |
Ahh the BERBOON argument in defence Old Mo is NOT a padophile if he only FUDGES ONE Child. So tell us please is someone who murders ONLY one person NOT a murderer then? Tell me is there some Islamic school of logic that teaches this stupidity or is it just a natural consequence of being brainwashed by the CULT
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Honour and Pride have no place in Islam. XXX in a thread on Honour Killing.
Islam is a BUFFET you just select which bits you like and dismiss the rest. Ahmed Bahgat
Whats the drink called that allah says BEES make? Berber says 'I dont know' |
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IamThat
Joined: 11 Mar 2007
Posts: 2014
Location: In between my ears!
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| Posted: Sat Jul 28, 2007 3:19 pm Post subject: |
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Thank you all for your esteemed views. 
But aren't we using 21st century morals against 650AD moral?
You say child they say ready to fudge. I mean they had a barbaric tradition that fudged 9yr olds but other day i read their was a 8 yr old girl in Brazil who gave birth to a child. So what is biologically possible can be morally supported? I mean giving birth.
P.S. I was wondering, if Muhammad was born a Pagan then when did he get circumcised? or was he ever circumcised himself?
_________________
As body, you are in space. As mind, you are in time. But are you a mere body with a mind in it? Have you ever investigated?When you realize that the distinction between inner and outer is in the mind only, you are no longer afraid. |
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wachamalit
Joined: 06 Jun 2005
Posts: 3319
Location: Atheist corner.
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| Posted: Sat Aug 04, 2007 12:17 am Post subject: |
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| IamThat wrote: |
Thank you all for your esteemed views.
But aren't we using 21st century morals against 650AD moral?
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Yes. Because 21st century 9 year olds are the same as 650AD 9 year olds.
The same health risks involved in child sex would apply in the past as it would now.
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You say child they say ready to fudge. I mean they had a barbaric tradition that fudged 9yr olds but other day i read their was a 8 yr old girl in Brazil who gave birth to a child.
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Is that 8 year old Brazillian girl Ayesha?I don't think so.
Is she the norm for the rest of the 8 year old girls in the world throughout history? I DON'T THINK SO!!
Don't equate exceptions with the norm.
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Out of ideas for a new, witty signature. May add one later, but maybe not since I am too lazy. |
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arildno
Joined: 26 Jun 2007
Posts: 1268
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| Posted: Sat Aug 04, 2007 12:47 am Post subject: |
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| IamThat wrote: |
Thank you all for your esteemed views.
But aren't we using 21st century morals against 650AD moral? |
Your problem with that being?
What you should understand is that in contrast to any other morality systems, those which focus on the centrality and flourishing of the INDIVIDUAL (basically inalienable human rights systems) rely on a bedrock of physical REALITY.
This morality is NOT about the preservation of some arbitrary, hazy and contingent cultural tradition, but about the preservation of REAL entities, the individuals that are actually the one doing the living.
A culture or custom is not an entity that lives, we can't even identify it properly (everyone seemingly attached to it will have his own, unique version of it for example).
Thus, all those moralities that seek the flourishing or preservation of some particular cultural trait as the primary are really meaningless and irrational.
Only individuals can properly&objectively be said to flourish and preserved.
And THAT is a line of thinking that CAN be understood, or COULD have been understood by members of any type of background, in the past, present and future.
Because it is directly linked to what we ALL have in common, our PHYSICAL reality, and that life, wherever and whenever is ALWAYS lived by...the INDIVIDUAL.
Thus, "21st" century moral thinking has a pre.-eminence over any other.
All the rest is just about following this or that command from an imaginary being, or because "we've always done it this way, so it can't be changed" and other basically non-sensical arguments. |
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IamThat
Joined: 11 Mar 2007
Posts: 2014
Location: In between my ears!
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| Posted: Sat Aug 04, 2007 4:55 pm Post subject: |
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Thanks guys, i already changed my mind on that issue, now i know Muhammad was a pedophile because his cousin(i think Abu-Bakar) took his promise that he wont have sex with her till she reached sexual maturity. Which shows Muhammad choose the girl deliberately because he liked her youth and he had to promise Abu-bakar that he wont consummate her till she reached maturity, this shows Abu-Bhakar knew that Muhammad would touch her and so he took the oath, more over Abu sounds like the one who is giving moral code to a Prophet!!!
I have rebuked the argument here.
http://www.faithfreedom.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=45816&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0
_________________
As body, you are in space. As mind, you are in time. But are you a mere body with a mind in it? Have you ever investigated?When you realize that the distinction between inner and outer is in the mind only, you are no longer afraid. |
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IntellectualWarfare12
Joined: 20 Jul 2007
Posts: 1602
Location: The Atlantic Ocean
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| Posted: Sun Aug 05, 2007 11:40 am Post subject: |
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.........
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Yeezeevee wrote: people are NOT GOING TO BELIEVE in such silly stories murder of Sumayah, the torture of Bilal, story of Abu Jahl bayoneting this old lady Sumayah.. stories such as this
FFI Hypocrisy........
Last edited by IntellectualWarfare12 on Mon Dec 31, 2007 12:17 am; edited 1 time in total |
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MsWesterner
Joined: 11 Nov 2006
Posts: 11888
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| Posted: Sun Aug 05, 2007 1:04 pm Post subject: |
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you seem agitated notsointellectual......
well it does tie in with the fact that the little girl was given in marriage at age 6 and then bonked at just age 9 !!!!
but of course anyone who supports the obscenities of islam lacks the conscience to be appalled at children being so harmed!!!!
"and aisha's role was to wash the semen off the filthy pedophiles clothes......he who did what all pedophiles do in that he invented a story to cover his inadequacies and said this imaginary allah pimped a child for him, then called it divine"
oh how badly you have been HAD AND CONNED by the absolute DECEIT of this hoax ......dont dare claim to be intellectual when you believe in myths, imaginary beings and obscenities caused by islam on millions and millions of innnocent victims whom never had a choice to be muslim and never get a voice!!!!
"real" men with intellect and balls are those whom know islam for exactly what it is and LEAVE......the apostates. The weak and gullible cowards remain. |
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IamThat
Joined: 11 Mar 2007
Posts: 2014
Location: In between my ears!
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| Posted: Sun Aug 05, 2007 1:07 pm Post subject: |
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It appears that i may have slipped on that line!? but no one here is mistaken that Muhammad did consummate a 9 year old girl and his moral restraint was low.
Here Abu Bakar is taken by surprise.
Sahih Bukhari 7.18
Narrated 'Ursa:
The Prophet asked Abu Bakr for 'Aisha's hand in marriage. Abu Bakr said "But I am your brother." The Prophet said, "You are my brother in Allah's religion and His Book, but she (Aisha) is lawful for me to marry."
_________________
As body, you are in space. As mind, you are in time. But are you a mere body with a mind in it? Have you ever investigated?When you realize that the distinction between inner and outer is in the mind only, you are no longer afraid. |
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Always_Faithful
Joined: 22 Jan 2006
Posts: 2024
Location: Location: Location
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| Posted: Sun Aug 05, 2007 1:26 pm Post subject: |
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| IntellectualWarfare12 wrote: |
| IamThat wrote: |
Thanks guys, i already changed my mind on that issue, now i know Muhammad was a pedophile because his cousin(i think Abu-Bakar) took his promise that he wont have sex with her till she reached sexual maturity. Which shows Muhammad choose the girl deliberately because he liked her youth and he had to promise Abu-bakar that he wont consummate her till she reached maturity, this shows Abu-Bhakar knew that Muhammad would touch her and so he took the oath, more over Abu sounds like the one who is giving moral code to a Prophet!!!
I have rebuked the argument here.
http://www.faithfreedom.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=45816&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0 |
Prove it. Prove that Abu Bakr made Muhammad wait three years |
There's nothing to suggest that Mohammed waited until Aisha's maturity. Sources suggest that he didn't consummate the marriage because Aisha was ill.
| Sahih Bukhari V5 B58 #234 wrote: |
| The Prophet engaged me when I was a girl of six (years). We went to Medina and stayed at the home of Bani-al-Harith bin Khazraj. Then I got ill and my hair fell down. Later on my hair grew (again) and my mother, Um Ruman, came to me while I was playing in a swing with some of my girl friends. She called me, and I went to her, not knowing what she wanted to do to me. She caught me by the hand and made me stand at the door of the house. I was breathless then, and when my breathing became Allright, she took some water and rubbed my face and head with it. Then she took me into the house. There in the house I saw some Ansari women who said, "Best wishes and Allah's Blessing and a good luck." Then she entrusted me to them and they prepared me (for the marriage). Unexpectedly Allah's Apostle came to me in the forenoon and my mother handed me over to him, and at that time I was a girl of nine years of age. |
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A destructive man helps to naturally select a better society; an ignorant man does nothing but drag society down: Innocence is worse than evil. |
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samson
Joined: 23 Nov 2006
Posts: 525
Location: Norway
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| Posted: Sun Aug 05, 2007 3:42 pm Post subject: |
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| Sahih Bukhari V5 B58 #234 wrote: |
| The Prophet engaged me when I was a girl of six (years). We went to Medina and stayed at the home of Bani-al-Harith bin Khazraj. Then I got ill and my hair fell down. Later on my hair grew (again) and my mother, Um Ruman, came to me while I was playing in a swing with some of my girl friends. She called me, and I went to her, not knowing what she wanted to do to me. She caught me by the hand and made me stand at the door of the house. I was breathless then, and when my breathing became Allright, she took some water and rubbed my face and head with it. Then she took me into the house. There in the house I saw some Ansari women who said, "Best wishes and Allah's Blessing and a good luck." Then she entrusted me to them and they prepared me (for the marriage). Unexpectedly Allah's Apostle came to me in the forenoon and my mother handed me over to him, and at that time I was a girl of nine years of age. |
Yuk, that hadith just make you wanna puke. 
Samson
_________________
Saladin’s physician, Maimonides: “This people, the Arabs, never did a nation molest, degrade, debase, and hate us as much as they. No matter how much we suffer and elect to remain at peace with them, they stir up strife and sedition.” |
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IntellectualWarfare12
Joined: 20 Jul 2007
Posts: 1602
Location: The Atlantic Ocean
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| Posted: Sun Aug 05, 2007 4:53 pm Post subject: |
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.................
_________________
Yeezeevee wrote: people are NOT GOING TO BELIEVE in such silly stories murder of Sumayah, the torture of Bilal, story of Abu Jahl bayoneting this old lady Sumayah.. stories such as this
FFI Hypocrisy........
Last edited by IntellectualWarfare12 on Mon Dec 31, 2007 12:15 am; edited 1 time in total |
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