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MsWesterner
Joined: 11 Nov 2006
Posts: 11888
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 Posted: Sun Mar 11, 2007 12:58 pm Post subject: |
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see....I knew you couldnt refute the koran's errors and omissions lol.
our very predictable ahmed.....so why would you believe it ahmed, when you know of the errors and how it therefore cannot possibly be called perfect or truthful. |
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LadyTex
Joined: 12 Jan 2007
Posts: 1065
Location: God Bless Texas!
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| Posted: Sun Mar 11, 2007 1:01 pm Post subject: |
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| AhmedBahgat wrote: |
| anna wrote: |
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| Indeed following Bukhari, Muslim and others in any religious matter that is not sanctioned by Allah is nothing but following conjectures, and because these conjectures are religious related then this will constitute Shirk type 2, |
and WHO determine what is/is not "sanctioned by Allah'?
Picn 'n chosing' - MUSLIMS who have never spoken to 'Allah' nor seen him and who can't do anything else bút guess, and guess, and guess, and guess..... and keep guessing ..... and  and  each other and  each other after which they still have to keep guessing, and guessing, and guessing ....... what 'Allah' said or not. |
Idiot
there is something called the Quran that is sent by Allah
go and burry your pinhead in a toilet somewhere, you are such a loser bound top hell |
But Ahmed, there are many who do not truely understand the Quran. And those I am worried about, like the believers of injustice, the ones who take dignity away from women, the ones whos justice is inhumane, the ones who have no hope left and kill themselves and others to bring the end of their pain. It is also in western countries, but muslim countries are famous for it. The misunderstanding of the Quran is great and wide spread and it shows by the laws they making.
You live in Australia under western laws, and since you not a thief or a murderer, you have no need to fear the law, but what about the thieves and the murderers? What about the women?
You can't seriously belief the Quran asks humans to be animals?
No offence intended Ahmed, I already know you searching for the truth. |
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icontrolallah
Joined: 24 Feb 2007
Posts: 320
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| Posted: Sun Mar 11, 2007 1:17 pm Post subject: |
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| AhmedBahgat wrote: |
Boys and girls
non of you have anything to say, all of you must be dismissed |
I think most of the non-muslims here would agree with you that Islamic practice is full of shirk concerning Muhammad. However, for a non-muslim it's easy to see how this has come about - because the quran is full of "obey allah AND his messenger". You yourself said that had you been alive during his life, you would have obeyed completely Muhammad, despite the fact he was not allah and despite the fact he very obviously made mistakes. If you are obeying him completely, in what way is your devotion to him less than your devotion to allah ?
When you take into account the convenience with which allahs revelations to Muhammad fitted in with his life only a fool could not question his divine authority.
You want more than the 4 wifes which was the previous mandated maximum ? Fine, here's the revelation.
You want to break your promise regarding what you'd eat ? Fine, here's the revelation.
You want to allow changing what allah originally said ? Fine, here's the revelation.
Why does a god need to make his revelations to mankind through some man anyway. Could he not give his revelations to all men and women in one go, and remove all doubt, or is that too difficult a task for god ? |
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LadyTex
Joined: 12 Jan 2007
Posts: 1065
Location: God Bless Texas!
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| Posted: Sun Mar 11, 2007 1:21 pm Post subject: |
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| icontrolallah wrote: |
| AhmedBahgat wrote: |
Boys and girls
non of you have anything to say, all of you must be dismissed |
I think most of the non-muslims here would agree with you that Islamic practice is full of shirk concerning Muhammad. However, for a non-muslim it's easy to see how this has come about - because the quran is full of "obey allah AND his messenger". You yourself said that had you been alive during his life, you would have obeyed completely Muhammad, despite the fact he was not allah and despite the fact he very obviously made mistakes. If you are obeying him completely, in what way is your devotion to him less than your devotion to allah ?
When you take into account the convenience with which allahs revelations to Muhammad fitted in with his life only a fool could not question his divine authority.
You want more than the 4 wifes which was the previous mandated maximum ? Fine, here's the revelation.
You want to break your promise regarding what you'd eat ? Fine, here's the revelation.
You want to allow changing what allah originally said ? Fine, here's the revelation.
Why does a god need to make his revelations to mankind through some man anyway. Could he not give his revelations to all men and women in one go, and remove all doubt, or is that too difficult a task for god ? |
The problem is that Obey Allah and his Messenger is totally misunderstood by most. What messenger was Allah speaking about?
It was not Muhammed, that much is for sure. Now what I do not get, did Muhammed also not know, who the messenger was, or did the confusion come in later and did Muhammed confuse himself with that messenger? |
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The Cat
Joined: 23 Apr 2005
Posts: 4357
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| Posted: Sun Mar 11, 2007 2:56 pm Post subject: |
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| LadyTex wrote: |
The problem is that Obey Allah and his Messenger is totally misunderstood by most. What messenger was Allah speaking about?
It was not Muhammed, that much is for sure. Now what I do not get, did Muhammed also not know, who the messenger was, or did the confusion come in later and did Muhammed confuse himself with that messenger? |
That is an important point of reflection. The very name of Muhammad is seldom written in the Qur'an, only four times I think. Can we imagine the Pentateuch with Moses' name mentioned only four times? Or the NT mentioning Jesus' name numbering at four?
Did Muhammad wanted to divinized himself or was it interpolated later? Also, the Qur'an was written in the infancy of the Aramaic branch of language we now call 'Arabic'. The oldest proof of this language is an inscription dated 512AD! It must be assumed that the oldest Qur'ans in our possession, and its language, still carries important etymologies from its formers Aramaic and Syriac. Even the very name of Qur'an derives from the Syriac Qeryana (to recite out loud) which, only later, became the Arabic Qara'a. Another example would be the word 'ummi' accorded to Muhammad, which was translated as ''illiterate'' while its Aramaic root would rather means that he was 'Not of the Book', making a lot more sense. So it's not only the 275 foreign words found in the Qur'an that have a foreign origin and a vast -scholarly- etymological research over all the words used in it must be conducted before -ANY- translation could be assumed as authentic, thus authoritative!
See my signature...
Now, contrary to the general assumption, Jesus is clearly stated in the Qur'an as the Word of Allah, His holy unbegotten Son and shaper of the Universe (Q.2.116-117; 3.59; 6.101; 21.91; 39.4-5; 46.9; 57.27 and 81.19-21)!!! Now that's many a-time!
Was Jesus the original Messenger of Allah?
For details please check the item Jesus (Eesa for Isa)
Islam 101: A Lexicon for Dummies
http://www.faithfreedom.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=34806
_________________
Authority has the same etymological root as authenticity.
Last edited by The Cat on Sun Mar 11, 2007 3:40 pm; edited 3 times in total |
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LadyTex
Joined: 12 Jan 2007
Posts: 1065
Location: God Bless Texas!
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| Posted: Sun Mar 11, 2007 3:03 pm Post subject: |
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| The Cat wrote: |
| LadyTex wrote: |
The problem is that Obey Allah and his Messenger is totally misunderstood by most. What messenger was Allah speaking about?
It was not Muhammed, that much is for sure. Now what I do not get, did Muhammed also not know, who the messenger was, or did the confusion come in later and did Muhammed confuse himself with that messenger? |
That is an important point of reflection. The very name of Muhammad is seldom written in the Qur'an, only four times I think. Can we imagine the Pentateuch with Moses' name mentioned only four times? Or the NT mentioning Jesus' name numbering at four?
Did Muhammad wanted to divinized himself or was it interpolated later? Also, the Qur'an was written in the infancy of the Aramaic branch of language we now call 'Arabic'. The oldest proof of this language is an inscription dated 512AD! It must be assumed that the oldest Qur'ans in our possession, and its language, still carries important etymologies from its formers Aramaic and Syriac. Even the very name of Qur'an derives from the Syriac Qeryana (to recite out loud) which, only later, became the Arabic Qara'a. Another example would be the word 'ummi' accorded to Muhammad, which was translated as ''illiterate'' while its Aramaic root would rather means that he was 'Not of the Book', making a lot more sense. So it's not only the 275 foreign words found in the Qur'an that have a foreign origin and a vast -scholarly- etymological research over all the words used in it must be conducted before -ANY- translation could be assumed as authoritative!
Now, contrary to the general assumption, Jesus is clearly stated in the Qur'an as the Word of Allah, His holy unbegotten Son and shaper of the Universe (Q.2.116-117, 3.59; 6.10, 21.91; 39.4-5, 46.9, 57.27 and 81.19-21)!!! Now that's many a-time!
Was Jesus the original Messenger of Allah? |
What did Jesus say about false prophets? |
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The Cat
Joined: 23 Apr 2005
Posts: 4357
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| Posted: Sun Mar 11, 2007 3:27 pm Post subject: |
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Your answer caught me while I was editing the text (it's 6.101 not 6.10). 
As far as I am concern, Jesus denounced the idolatry of its time and so is the true purpose of all realized prophets. Idolatry I define as any association, whatsoever, between the uncreated glory of God and the created, especially when it is man-made assumptions about God, the basic of shirk or idolatry, for which humanity pays and expiates.
The Book of God is the Living Creation, here and now as the only Eternity.
Look at it and marvel as children do. It's extatic!
But we cutted ourselves from the Tree of Life.
_________________
Authority has the same etymological root as authenticity.
Last edited by The Cat on Sun Mar 11, 2007 4:28 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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LadyTex
Joined: 12 Jan 2007
Posts: 1065
Location: God Bless Texas!
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| Posted: Sun Mar 11, 2007 3:40 pm Post subject: |
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| The Cat wrote: |
Your answer caught me while I was editing the text.
As far as I am concern, Jesus denounced the idolatry of its time and so is the true purpose of all realized prophets. Idolatry I define as any association, whatsoever, between the uncreated glory of God and the created, especially when it is man-made assumptions about God, the basic of shirk or idolatry, for which humanity pays and expiates.
The Book of God is the Living Creation, here and now as the only Eternity.
Look at it and marvel as children do. It's extatic!
But we cutted ourselves from the Tree of Life. |
But remember he also said he would come quickly in or on a cloud. How fast is quickly? 600 years, 1400 years?
The cloud could be another scripture, so untill I am totally familiar with the true meaning of the Quran I can not dismiss it.
I think this way, the OT was what happens when God is not with people, the jewish religion got totally destroyed, remember out of paradise and the tree of life is protected. The NT is the way with God, the Quran is the test if we understood and also the balance to keep the walk with God.
So all I consider as word are them 3 books, at least for now.
In the meantime, I see what I get out of that Quran, since it is in a very unusual language. So far it has made sense to me, but only because I can read spirit.
Call me a weirdo. 
Either way, Islam is not practiced as the Quran wants it. They live by what they read literal like so many Christians do. You can't read them books like that. Jesus is a pretty realistic aproach, but still, his words are complicted to get the full meaning off.
We see where this journey end. Keep moving on, find the truth. |
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The Cat
Joined: 23 Apr 2005
Posts: 4357
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| Posted: Sun Mar 11, 2007 3:51 pm Post subject: |
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The very word intelligence comes from the latin ''inter-legere'' which means the faculty to read between the lines.
As for the 'holy' scriptures, they were intended to be understood in spirit (to understand = to stand under), that is with the heart, not through the divisive and sectarian mind. That's why I think that once you take away idolatry (beliefs) from faith, the curse of Satan upon the world will be... dismissed!
Once again, the Book of Life are the 'words' of God.
If you can't marvel at it like children do, too bad.
_________________
Authority has the same etymological root as authenticity. |
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LadyTex
Joined: 12 Jan 2007
Posts: 1065
Location: God Bless Texas!
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| Posted: Sun Mar 11, 2007 4:00 pm Post subject: |
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You got it cat, remember the three witnesses on earth,
The spirit, which is understanding, the water which is the way of life and the blood which is the resurection of Christ and it is in the Quran,
Spirit= Understanding, Water= Bible, Blood= Quran.
At least I think it does, it is just so mindblowing that the last prophet the Quran comes at this time. And the circumstances around it are so questionable, just like Jesus was so questionable that they silenced him, at least they tried.
This is what causes people to cry when they read the Quran, but reality must be fixed and I still prefer the way that Jesus taught over the way muslims prefer. All muslims have not understood the Quran, that is why I hope we can come to an agreement on what is Godly and what isn't.
The old brutal way can not be the literal way, that is my only complaint.
But Danish already agreed with me on some of my issues. So did Ahmed, also Hajirffi, Friendship and a few others. |
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AhmedBahgat
Joined: 25 Jan 2006
Posts: 10001
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| Posted: Sun Mar 11, 2007 9:53 pm Post subject: |
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| LadyTex wrote: |
| But Ahmed, there are many who do not truely understand the Quran. |
Because they donlt care to understand it
| LadyTex wrote: |
| And those I am worried about, |
I donlt worry about them, they will earn what they deserve
| LadyTex wrote: |
| like the believers of injustice, the ones who take dignity away from women, the ones whos justice is inhumane, the ones who have no hope left and kill themselves and others to bring the end of their pain. |
again they will earn what they deserve
| LadyTex wrote: |
| It is also in western countries, but muslim countries are famous for it. The misunderstanding of the Quran is great and wide spread and it shows by the laws they making. |
you can't compare apples with mangos
so you can compare a non western country with a western country but not a western country with a religion in a country
| LadyTex wrote: |
| You live in Australia under western laws, |
I found many laws in Australia are truely Islamic and according to the Quran
| LadyTex wrote: |
| and since you not a thief or a murderer, you have no need to fear the law, |
of course
| LadyTex wrote: |
| but what about the thieves and the murderers? What about the women? |
They will earn what they deserve, i only worry about myself when it comes to God
| LadyTex wrote: |
| You can't seriously belief the Quran asks humans to be animals? |
of course not, it is a metapahor
| LadyTex wrote: |
| No offence intended Ahmed, I already know you searching for the truth. |
I found the truth years ago, I'm looking for those who want to burry the truth and put put the light of Allah
salam |
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icontrolallah
Joined: 24 Feb 2007
Posts: 320
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| Posted: Sun Mar 11, 2007 10:44 pm Post subject: |
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| AhmedBahgat wrote: |
| LadyTex wrote: |
| You can't seriously belief the Quran asks humans to be animals? |
of course not, it is a metapahor
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What about when it claims allah turned christians and jews into apes and pigs. Is that a metaphor too, or just supersticious nonsense ? |
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AhmedBahgat
Joined: 25 Jan 2006
Posts: 10001
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| Posted: Sun Mar 11, 2007 11:01 pm Post subject: |
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| icunt wrote: |
| AhmedBahgat wrote: |
| LadyTex wrote: |
| You can't seriously belief the Quran asks humans to be animals? |
of course not, it is a metapahor
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What about when it claims allah turned christians and jews into apes and pigs. Is that a metaphor too, or just supersticious nonsense ? |
before I reply I need you to show me the verse and walk me through it, I need to confirm if you really understand it or not |
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friendship
Joined: 18 Nov 2005
Posts: 318
Location: ABSENT FOR A WEEK, BEST WISHES, M.
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| Posted: Mon Mar 12, 2007 12:17 am Post subject: |
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| AhmedBahgat wrote: |
| icunt wrote: |
| AhmedBahgat wrote: |
| LadyTex wrote: |
| You can't seriously belief the Quran asks humans to be animals? |
of course not, it is a metapahor
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What about when it claims allah turned christians and jews into apes and pigs. Is that a metaphor too, or just supersticious nonsense ? |
before I reply I need you to show me the verse and walk me through it, I need to confirm if you really understand it or not |
He does NOT have the verse. He has no clue what he just said just like a lot of Kafirs in this forum.
Icontrolallah can try and prove me wrong though ofcourse but I have serious doubts.
Many Thanks
_________________
M is not afraid of what junk you have to say.
But just to prove a point, M's freedom of action, you are banned for a week. What will you do about that?
Best Wishes,
M. |
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LadyTex
Joined: 12 Jan 2007
Posts: 1065
Location: God Bless Texas!
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| Posted: Mon Mar 12, 2007 3:04 am Post subject: |
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| AhmedBahgat wrote: |
| LadyTex wrote: |
| But Ahmed, there are many who do not truely understand the Quran. |
Because they donlt care to understand it
| LadyTex wrote: |
| And those I am worried about, |
I donlt worry about them, they will earn what they deserve
| LadyTex wrote: |
| like the believers of injustice, the ones who take dignity away from women, the ones whos justice is inhumane, the ones who have no hope left and kill themselves and others to bring the end of their pain. |
again they will earn what they deserve
| LadyTex wrote: |
| It is also in western countries, but muslim countries are famous for it. The misunderstanding of the Quran is great and wide spread and it shows by the laws they making. |
you can't compare apples with mangos
so you can compare a non western country with a western country but not a western country with a religion in a country
| LadyTex wrote: |
| You live in Australia under western laws, |
I found many laws in Australia are truely Islamic and according to the Quran
| LadyTex wrote: |
| and since you not a thief or a murderer, you have no need to fear the law, |
of course
| LadyTex wrote: |
| but what about the thieves and the murderers? What about the women? |
They will earn what they deserve, i only worry about myself when it comes to God
| LadyTex wrote: |
| You can't seriously belief the Quran asks humans to be animals? |
of course not, it is a metapahor
| LadyTex wrote: |
| No offence intended Ahmed, I already know you searching for the truth. |
I found the truth years ago, I'm looking for those who want to burry the truth and put put the light of Allah
salam |
Ahmed you heartless, what would Jesus do? What has Jesus said to the Father when they murdered him?
"God forgive them, they do not know what they doing."
God will not that his people suffer.
Jesus taught us to pray,
... Thy will be done, on Earth as it is in Heaven...
What is the most wonderful thing you can imagine for this earth?
World peace and harmony is the most wonderful thing I can imagine for earth.
Health to all and a long life, no fear, no tears, no more hunger for any one. This can only be accomplished thru world peace and harmony, only then can we work the other problems out. Even though our soldiers already trying to bring as much comfort as they can, they minister medizine to the hurt, they bring food and water, they teach self defence, they try to reestablish peace. You can't see this can you?
They did not come to only destroy what had to be removed, they also came to minister to help Iraq, to help itself.
Is all you want destruction of evil?
Listen to what Jesus said:
"Love thine enemies!"
He knew what he was talking about.
Work on a proper translation of the Quran Ahmed if you must, but I doubt you can understand the true meaning unless you open your heart.
If your heart is closed, you can not understand the true meaning of the Quran. I have only an IQ of 105, but a heart bigger than Texas. |
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