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| Why does Allah mandate this Requirement? |
| Women are Liars, so the other is there to make sure she is truthful |
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5% |
[ 2 ] |
| Women have a Naturally Bad Memory, so the second Woman is there to remind the First |
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17% |
[ 7 ] |
| Women are Deficient in Intelligence thus Allah is saying they are too inferior to be equal to a man |
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51% |
[ 20 ] |
| Women are Deficient in Intelligence, but this does not make them inferior to men |
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7% |
[ 3 ] |
| Other (please elaborate) |
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17% |
[ 7 ] |
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| Total Votes : 39 |
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| Author |
Message |
Sanitarium
Joined: 13 Feb 2006
Posts: 6891
Location: where my time is better spent.
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 Posted: Fri Jan 19, 2007 1:11 am Post subject: Quran 2:282 - Please Vote |
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Hi everyone,
Could you please all participate in the poll with regards to the highlighted text in Quran 2:282?
| Quran 2:282 wrote: |
Yusuf Ali: O ye who believe! When ye deal with each other, in transactions involving future obligations in a fixed period of time, reduce them to writing Let a scribe write down faithfully as between the parties: let not the scribe refuse to write: as Allah Has taught him, so let him write. Let him who incurs the liability dictate, but let him fear His Lord Allah, and not diminish aught of what he owes. If they party liable is mentally deficient, or weak, or unable Himself to dictate, Let his guardian dictate faithfully, and get two witnesses, out of your own men, and if there are not two men, then a man and two women, such as ye choose, for witnesses, so that if one of them errs, the other can remind her. The witnesses should not refuse when they are called on (For evidence). Disdain not to reduce to writing (your contract) for a future period, whether it be small or big: it is juster in the sight of Allah, More suitable as evidence, and more convenient to prevent doubts among yourselves but if it be a transaction which ye carry out on the spot among yourselves, there is no blame on you if ye reduce it not to writing. But take witness whenever ye make a commercial contract; and let neither scribe nor witness suffer harm. If ye do (such harm), it would be wickedness in you. So fear Allah; For it is Good that teaches you. And Allah is well acquainted with all things. If ye are on a journey, and cannot find a scribe, a pledge with possession (may serve the purpose). And if one of you deposits a thing on trust with another, let the trustee (faithfully) discharge his trust, and let him Fear his Lord conceal not evidence; for whoever conceals it, - his heart is tainted with sin. And Allah knoweth all that ye do.
Pickthal: O ye who believe! When ye contract a debt for a fixed term, record it in writing. Let a scribe record it in writing between you in (terms of) equity. No scribe should refuse to write as Allah hath taught him, so let him write, and let him who incurreth the debt dictate, and let him observe his duty to Allah his Lord, and diminish naught thereof. But if he who oweth the debt is of low understanding, or weak, or unable himself to dictate, then let the guardian of his interests dictate in (terms of) equity. And call to witness, from among your men, two witnesses. And if two men be not (at hand) then a man and two women, of such as ye approve as witnesses, so that if the one erreth (through forgetfulness) the other will remember. And the witnesses must not refuse when they are summoned. Be not averse to writing down (the contract) whether it be small or great, with (record of) the term thereof. That is more equitable in the sight of Allah and more sure for testimony, and the best way of avoiding doubt between you; save only in the case when it is actual merchandise which ye transfer among yourselves from hand to hand. In that case it is no sin for you if ye write it not. And have witnesses when ye sell one to another, and let no harm be done to scribe or witness. If ye do (harm to them) lo! it is a sin in you. Observe your duty to Allah. Allah is teaching you. And Allah is knower of all things.
Shakir: O you who believe! when you deal with each other in contracting a debt for a fixed time, then write it down; and let a scribe write it down between you with fairness; and the scribe should not refuse to write as Allah has taught him, so he should write; and let him who owes the debt dictate, and he should be careful of (his duty to) Allah, his Lord, and not diminish anything from it; but if he who owes the debt is unsound in understanding, or weak, or (if) he is not able to dictate himself, let his guardian dictate with fairness; and call in to witness from among your men two witnesses; but if there are not two men, then one man and two women from among those whom you choose to be witnesses, so that if one of the two errs, the second of the two may remind the other; and the witnesses should not refuse when they are summoned; and be not averse to writing it (whether it is) small or large, with the time of its falling due; this is more equitable in the sight of Allah and assures greater accuracy in testimony, and the nearest (way) that you may not entertain doubts (afterwards), except when it is ready merchandise which you give and take among yourselves from hand to hand, then there is no blame on you in not writing it down; and have witnesses when you barter with one another, and let no harm be done to the scribe or to the witness; and if you do (it) then surely it will be a transgression in you, and be careful of (your duty) to Allah, Allah teaches you, and Allah knows all things.
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It has been stated to me that I am the only one who understands the highlighted part as I have explained it (in another thread), and that EVERYONE knows what it really means; everyone except me.
So please vote so we can all see how much Sani deserves her name 
Also, please explain cleary if you vote "Other."
Thanks
-Sani
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Just a woman
Joined: 06 Jan 2007
Posts: 731
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| Posted: Fri Jan 19, 2007 1:21 am Post subject: Re: Quran 2:282 - Please Vote |
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| Sanitarium wrote: |
Hi everyone,
Could you please all participate in the poll with regards to the highlighted text in Quran 2:282?
| Quran 2:282 wrote: |
Yusuf Ali: O ye who believe! When ye deal with each other, in transactions involving future obligations in a fixed period of time, reduce them to writing Let a scribe write down faithfully as between the parties: let not the scribe refuse to write: as Allah Has taught him, so let him write. Let him who incurs the liability dictate, but let him fear His Lord Allah, and not diminish aught of what he owes. If they party liable is mentally deficient, or weak, or unable Himself to dictate, Let his guardian dictate faithfully, and get two witnesses, out of your own men, and if there are not two men, then a man and two women, such as ye choose, for witnesses, so that if one of them errs, the other can remind her. The witnesses should not refuse when they are called on (For evidence). Disdain not to reduce to writing (your contract) for a future period, whether it be small or big: it is juster in the sight of Allah, More suitable as evidence, and more convenient to prevent doubts among yourselves but if it be a transaction which ye carry out on the spot among yourselves, there is no blame on you if ye reduce it not to writing. But take witness whenever ye make a commercial contract; and let neither scribe nor witness suffer harm. If ye do (such harm), it would be wickedness in you. So fear Allah; For it is Good that teaches you. And Allah is well acquainted with all things. If ye are on a journey, and cannot find a scribe, a pledge with possession (may serve the purpose). And if one of you deposits a thing on trust with another, let the trustee (faithfully) discharge his trust, and let him Fear his Lord conceal not evidence; for whoever conceals it, - his heart is tainted with sin. And Allah knoweth all that ye do.
Pickthal: O ye who believe! When ye contract a debt for a fixed term, record it in writing. Let a scribe record it in writing between you in (terms of) equity. No scribe should refuse to write as Allah hath taught him, so let him write, and let him who incurreth the debt dictate, and let him observe his duty to Allah his Lord, and diminish naught thereof. But if he who oweth the debt is of low understanding, or weak, or unable himself to dictate, then let the guardian of his interests dictate in (terms of) equity. And call to witness, from among your men, two witnesses. And if two men be not (at hand) then a man and two women, of such as ye approve as witnesses, so that if the one erreth (through forgetfulness) the other will remember. And the witnesses must not refuse when they are summoned. Be not averse to writing down (the contract) whether it be small or great, with (record of) the term thereof. That is more equitable in the sight of Allah and more sure for testimony, and the best way of avoiding doubt between you; save only in the case when it is actual merchandise which ye transfer among yourselves from hand to hand. In that case it is no sin for you if ye write it not. And have witnesses when ye sell one to another, and let no harm be done to scribe or witness. If ye do (harm to them) lo! it is a sin in you. Observe your duty to Allah. Allah is teaching you. And Allah is knower of all things.
Shakir: O you who believe! when you deal with each other in contracting a debt for a fixed time, then write it down; and let a scribe write it down between you with fairness; and the scribe should not refuse to write as Allah has taught him, so he should write; and let him who owes the debt dictate, and he should be careful of (his duty to) Allah, his Lord, and not diminish anything from it; but if he who owes the debt is unsound in understanding, or weak, or (if) he is not able to dictate himself, let his guardian dictate with fairness; and call in to witness from among your men two witnesses; but if there are not two men, then one man and two women from among those whom you choose to be witnesses, so that if one of the two errs, the second of the two may remind the other; and the witnesses should not refuse when they are summoned; and be not averse to writing it (whether it is) small or large, with the time of its falling due; this is more equitable in the sight of Allah and assures greater accuracy in testimony, and the nearest (way) that you may not entertain doubts (afterwards), except when it is ready merchandise which you give and take among yourselves from hand to hand, then there is no blame on you in not writing it down; and have witnesses when you barter with one another, and let no harm be done to the scribe or to the witness; and if you do (it) then surely it will be a transgression in you, and be careful of (your duty) to Allah, Allah teaches you, and Allah knows all things.
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It has been stated to me that I am the only one who understands the highlighted part as I have explained it (in another thread), and that EVERYONE knows what it really means; everyone except me.
So please vote so we can all see how much Sani deserves her name
Also, please explain cleary if you vote "Other."
Thanks
-Sani |
LOLOL
Why ALLAH said that is not what we debated.
What Allah said was.
The Question should be,
Does the text read that women are inferior?
Does the text read that women have memory problems?
But of course you know that they don't.
_________________
The wolves sent an embassy to the sheep saying, "lets make peace, Those dogs that you keep are the problem."
The silly sheep listened, and became an easy prey to their treacherous enemy. The FFI wolves |
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Sanitarium
Joined: 13 Feb 2006
Posts: 6891
Location: where my time is better spent.
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| Posted: Fri Jan 19, 2007 1:23 am Post subject: |
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Could you please stop quoting the whole previous post? Its a lot of scrollage for everyone.
Now, I notice you STILL haven't explained why the Requirement is in place.
Do you deny that The Quran is the word of Allah?
Do you deny that the hadith are the words of Muhammad?
I presented you hadith and a Quran verse, so no; there is nothing wrong with my question or the way I phrased it.
Now, stop picking on meaningless things, and address the question posed: WHY is this requirement there?
-Sani
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Karngga
Joined: 23 Dec 2006
Posts: 244
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| Posted: Fri Jan 19, 2007 1:30 am Post subject: |
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Mohammed had absolutely no respect or love of women, quite apart from his having inherited a great deal from his older, wealthy, businesswoman, first wife who obviously kept him on a very short chain. The reason for his high degree of hatred is probably due to the above, that his first wife did in fact, control him and his desire to lead the high life with her money.
Therefore, he is making sure that women never have authority over men in his engineering of all his anti-women statements. The reason also, that he had so many 'wives', concubines, female slaves etc etc was also a sign of his desire to keep women 'in their place'. He is typical of weak men who use rape as a sign of power and in his case he needs to constantly demonstrate his power and authority by subjugating them with constant sexual domination of his wives and harem. His desire to make his wives submissive and under his control stems from his lack of control in his first marriage.
Why do you think his favourite wife was Ailsha, the child that he had sex with when she was a 9 year old? This child was forced to grow up to the way he moulded her. She was unable to have any real control in her own life and her own body because she had to accept what mohammed taught her as normal. His other wives, who were all older and much more experienced women, used many tricks to avoid him. However, they also used his domination over them to achieve favours for themselves and it is acknowledged that there were 2-3 factions within the groupings of mohammed's wives.
In short, all of mohammed's statements in the koran about women merely show hatred and fear of women and a fear of their power over him. His subjugation of women because of his own fear is very apparent. |
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Sanitarium
Joined: 13 Feb 2006
Posts: 6891
Location: where my time is better spent.
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| Posted: Fri Jan 19, 2007 1:34 am Post subject: |
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| Karngga wrote: |
Mohammed had absolutely no respect or love of women, quite apart from his having inherited a great deal from his older, wealthy, businesswoman, first wife who obviously kept him on a very short chain. The reason for his high degree of hatred is probably due to the above, that his first wife did in fact, control him and his desire to lead the high life with her money.
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Agreed! What little information we have about Muhammad and Khadija demonstrates this. Also the fact that even when he became a "prophet", Khadija would not allow him to take anymore wives or do other things; she was in control until she died, and then he went wild.
| Karngga wrote: |
Therefore, he is making sure that women never have authority over men in his engineering of all his anti-women statements. The reason also, that he had so many 'wives', concubines, female slaves etc etc was also a sign of his desire to keep women 'in their place'. He is typical of weak men who use rape as a sign of power and in his case he needs to constantly demonstrate his power and authority by subjugating them with constant sexual domination of his wives and harem. His desire to make his wives submissive and under his control stems from his lack of control in his first marriage.
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This really makes sense. And now women are paying for it.
| Karngga wrote: |
Why do you think his favourite wife was Ailsha, the child that he had sex with when she was a 9 year old? This child was forced to grow up to the way he moulded her.
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This is something that I realised right from the start; but Muslims seem to be unable to comprehend such a basic thing.
| Karngga wrote: |
She was unable to have any real control in her own life and her own body because she had to accept what mohammed taught her as normal. His other wives, who were all older and much more experienced women, used many tricks to avoid him. However, they also used his domination over them to achieve favours for themselves and it is acknowledged that there were 2-3 factions within the groupings of mohammed's wives.
In short, all of mohammed's statements in the koran about women merely show hatred and fear of women and a fear of their power over him. His subjugation of women because of his own fear is very apparent. |
Absolutely agree!!
Thank you so much for your thoughts, Karngga; and welcome to FFI!
-Sani
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Just a woman
Joined: 06 Jan 2007
Posts: 731
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| Posted: Fri Jan 19, 2007 1:55 am Post subject: |
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| Sanitarium wrote: |
Could you please stop quoting the whole previous post? Its a lot of scrollage for everyone.
Now, I notice you STILL haven't explained why the Requirement is in place.
Do you deny that The Quran is the word of Allah?
Do you deny that the hadith are the words of Muhammad?
I presented you hadith and a Quran verse, so no; there is nothing wrong with my question or the way I phrased it.
Now, stop picking on meaningless things, and address the question posed: WHY is this requirement there?
-Sani |
Meaningless?... That is what we were debating. I don't deny Quran are the sound hadiths. But the reason why something was said is not what I debated with you. You are misrepresenting our debate.
Does it say what I said it didn't say is the Question and not why.
Just like a FFI wolf. You said those text said something that they didn't say which is libel. And now you present a poll to the people asking them what is the interpretation of the text.
Also there are more possible reasons as to why the texts read as they do than you have posted but I will let you have your fun.
You ask this question but the fact is, the verses don't say what you say they do. How upset you must be to be proven wrong by a Muslim woman so that you have to ask for the interpretation of the text rather than admit that they don't say that women are inferior to men or that women have a memory problem like you said they did.
Have your fun, I will still be around when you finish.
_________________
The wolves sent an embassy to the sheep saying, "lets make peace, Those dogs that you keep are the problem."
The silly sheep listened, and became an easy prey to their treacherous enemy. The FFI wolves |
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MsWesterner
Joined: 11 Nov 2006
Posts: 11888
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| Posted: Fri Jan 19, 2007 1:58 am Post subject: |
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Karngga....and as the expression goes "and ain't that just the truth".
Thanks
And just a woman once told us what happened to her because of the behaviour of muslim males, but she still "protects the koran" when even that shows that it neither respects or loves her, and tells males how to treat her with such disdain. |
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Sanitarium
Joined: 13 Feb 2006
Posts: 6891
Location: where my time is better spent.
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| Posted: Fri Jan 19, 2007 2:05 am Post subject: |
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| Just a woman wrote: |
Meaningless?... That is what we were debating. I don't deny Quran are the sound hadiths. But the reason why something was said is not what I debated with you. You are misrepresenting our debate.
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Our debate is for all to see. You asked for proof of the deficiency of Women's intelligence (from someone else) and I provided it for you.
You said it didn't say what we said it did, and then you foolishly accused me of lying, and demanded proof. I gave you 2:282 as evidence to back up the claims I made.
And you, in turn denied this second lot of evidence I gave you, and did not offer the explanation as to what the verse means.
All you do is deny evidence. That isn't a defence, a rebuttal, or even logical!
| Just a woman wrote: |
Does it say what I said it didn't say is the Question and not why.
Just like a FFI wolf.
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I think that's a compliment coming from a Muslim.
| Just a woman wrote: |
You said those text said something that they didn't say which is libel.
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No, its only Libel if its false. You stating its false does not make it so.
Add to that you are refusing to offer the "real meaning" of the highlighted part in the verse above; it doesn't bode well for your "case".
| Just a woman wrote: |
And now you present a poll to the people asking them what is the interpretation of the text.
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Yes, because you said that EVERYONE knows what the highlighted part means (everyone except me).
Whats wrong with that? So far I'm coming out as right.
| Just a woman wrote: |
Also there are more possible reasons as to why the texts read as they do than you have posted but I will let you have your fun.
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So you're admitting you have no "alternate answer" and that my interpretation is right? After all, if "its not true!" then the "obvious answer" that everyone but you misses, would be obvious!
Spit it out!
| Just a woman wrote: |
You ask this question but the fact is, the verses don't say what you say they do.
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Again, another assertation without any evidence whatsoever Take your "proof" (your repeated claim its wrong) to a court of Law, and we'll see who wins huh?
| Just a woman wrote: |
How upset you must be to be proven wrong by a Muslim woman so that you have to ask for the interpretation of the text rather than admit that they don't say that women are inferior to men or that women have a memory problem like you said they did.
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I'm not upset. I'm not even wrong. YOU are still avoiding answering the Question. You are transparent and a hypocrite.
I explained why I made the poll, and you're losing (in the poll) so far.
By the way, I am female. I think you think I am male.
| Just a woman wrote: |
Have your fun, I will still be around when you finish. |
Okay so you don't have an alternate answer. Fine. So stop lying to us, and concede the point.
You are arrogant. You should get off your high horse once in awhile; its nice down here.
-Sani
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Karngga
Joined: 23 Dec 2006
Posts: 244
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| Posted: Fri Jan 19, 2007 2:11 am Post subject: |
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Hi Sani, you said -
Thank you so much for your thoughts, Karngga; and welcome to FFI!
I've actually been here for some time but some of my very early posts don't seem to show up or my original joining date. Mostly I have just sat back and read things others have said, but lately I've started posting. I got to the stage where I can no longer accept the tissue of lies and misinformation being promulgated by so many muslims that I just had to start putting my 2 cents worth in. |
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Sanitarium
Joined: 13 Feb 2006
Posts: 6891
Location: where my time is better spent.
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| Posted: Fri Jan 19, 2007 2:13 am Post subject: |
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| Karngga wrote: |
Hi Sani, you said -
Thank you so much for your thoughts, Karngga; and welcome to FFI!
I've actually been here for some time but some of my very early posts don't seem to show up or my original joining date. Mostly I have just sat back and read things others have said, but lately I've started posting. I got to the stage where I can no longer accept the tissue of lies and misinformation being promulgated by so many muslims that I just had to start putting my 2 cents worth in. |
FINALLY! hehehe So glad you're here. I know what you mean; I feel like smacking my head against a wall when I see the same lies being repeated by Muslims.
-Sani
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Ariel
Joined: 09 May 2004
Posts: 5451
Location: The Netherlands.
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| Posted: Fri Jan 19, 2007 2:14 am Post subject: |
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My God, doesn't this “Just a woman” have to cook a meal, or clean the house for her husband ?
Or is she paid by the Saudi government to stay online all day and night to try to drive the members of FFI crazy.
I suspect she is.
My compliment to all people who are debating her.
===============
My dear Just a woman.
Just a few tips,
How to make your Husband happy !!
Meet him with a cheerful face.
Beautify and perfume yourself.
Hasten for intercourse when your husband feels compulsion for it.
And try not to be a your computer all day, to write the most silly things, so to prove Muslim women are indeed deficient in Intelligence .
Thank you.
_________________
Tabari IX:69
“Killing disbelievers is a small matter to us.” |
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Brave Steed
Joined: 21 Nov 2004
Posts: 3285
Location: Here, like you.
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| Posted: Fri Jan 19, 2007 5:12 am Post subject: |
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| Sanitarium wrote: |
| You should get off your high horse once in awhile; its nice down here. |
Hey! I resemble that remark! 
Steed
_________________
Find the daughter killer Yassir Said
</islam> |
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Just a woman
Joined: 06 Jan 2007
Posts: 731
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| Posted: Fri Jan 19, 2007 7:25 am Post subject: Re: Quran 2:282 - Please Vote |
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| Sanitarium wrote: |
Hi everyone,
Could you please all participate in the poll with regards to the highlighted text in Quran 2:282?
| Quran 2:282 wrote: |
Yusuf Ali: O ye who believe! When ye deal with each other, in transactions involving future obligations in a fixed period of time, reduce them to writing Let a scribe write down faithfully as between the parties: let not the scribe refuse to write: as Allah Has taught him, so let him write. Let him who incurs the liability dictate, but let him fear His Lord Allah, and not diminish aught of what he owes. If they party liable is mentally deficient, or weak, or unable Himself to dictate, Let his guardian dictate faithfully, and get two witnesses, out of your own men, and if there are not two men, then a man and two women, such as ye choose, for witnesses, so that if one of them errs, the other can remind her. The witnesses should not refuse when they are called on (For evidence). Disdain not to reduce to writing (your contract) for a future period, whether it be small or big: it is juster in the sight of Allah, More suitable as evidence, and more convenient to prevent doubts among yourselves but if it be a transaction which ye carry out on the spot among yourselves, there is no blame on you if ye reduce it not to writing. But take witness whenever ye make a commercial contract; and let neither scribe nor witness suffer harm. If ye do (such harm), it would be wickedness in you. So fear Allah; For it is Good that teaches you. And Allah is well acquainted with all things. If ye are on a journey, and cannot find a scribe, a pledge with possession (may serve the purpose). And if one of you deposits a thing on trust with another, let the trustee (faithfully) discharge his trust, and let him Fear his Lord conceal not evidence; for whoever conceals it, - his heart is tainted with sin. And Allah knoweth all that ye do.
Pickthal: O ye who believe! When ye contract a debt for a fixed term, record it in writing. Let a scribe record it in writing between you in (terms of) equity. No scribe should refuse to write as Allah hath taught him, so let him write, and let him who incurreth the debt dictate, and let him observe his duty to Allah his Lord, and diminish naught thereof. But if he who oweth the debt is of low understanding, or weak, or unable himself to dictate, then let the guardian of his interests dictate in (terms of) equity. And call to witness, from among your men, two witnesses. And if two men be not (at hand) then a man and two women, of such as ye approve as witnesses, so that if the one erreth (through forgetfulness) the other will remember. And the witnesses must not refuse when they are summoned. Be not averse to writing down (the contract) whether it be small or great, with (record of) the term thereof. That is more equitable in the sight of Allah and more sure for testimony, and the best way of avoiding doubt between you; save only in the case when it is actual merchandise which ye transfer among yourselves from hand to hand. In that case it is no sin for you if ye write it not. And have witnesses when ye sell one to another, and let no harm be done to scribe or witness. If ye do (harm to them) lo! it is a sin in you. Observe your duty to Allah. Allah is teaching you. And Allah is knower of all things.
Shakir: O you who believe! when you deal with each other in contracting a debt for a fixed time, then write it down; and let a scribe write it down between you with fairness; and the scribe should not refuse to write as Allah has taught him, so he should write; and let him who owes the debt dictate, and he should be careful of (his duty to) Allah, his Lord, and not diminish anything from it; but if he who owes the debt is unsound in understanding, or weak, or (if) he is not able to dictate himself, let his guardian dictate with fairness; and call in to witness from among your men two witnesses; but if there are not two men, then one man and two women from among those whom you choose to be witnesses, so that if one of the two errs, the second of the two may remind the other; and the witnesses should not refuse when they are summoned; and be not averse to writing it (whether it is) small or large, with the time of its falling due; this is more equitable in the sight of Allah and assures greater accuracy in testimony, and the nearest (way) that you may not entertain doubts (afterwards), except when it is ready merchandise which you give and take among yourselves from hand to hand, then there is no blame on you in not writing it down; and have witnesses when you barter with one another, and let no harm be done to the scribe or to the witness; and if you do (it) then surely it will be a transgression in you, and be careful of (your duty) to Allah, Allah teaches you, and Allah knows all things.
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It has been stated to me that I am the only one who understands the highlighted part as I have explained it (in another thread), and that EVERYONE knows what it really means; everyone except me.
So please vote so we can all see how much Sani deserves her name
Also, please explain cleary if you vote "Other."
Thanks
-Sani |
Sani, I refrained from giving my just interpretation of scriptures because you keep saying that my interpretations weren't valid, as there were Arab scholars with unjust interpretations that disagreed with me. So I tried a different approach and attempted to show you that the verses didn't literally say what those scholars claimed. So when you say that Islam teaches that women are intellectually inferior, I say that no verse in Quran or hadith says that, and that the view of women being intellectually inferior is a cultural one and not the religious view of Islam. As a Muslim female in Sudan I was never treated as less by
the males in my village nor were other females, in fact we were giving the benefit of the doubt more than not, more than the males for sure. The black natives of Sudan treated their women like Queens and not dogs. The native men in my country love women and respect them as mothers of the earth, some tribes even attribute a since of divinity to the status of woman. But it was a different different story with the ruling Arabs and those few blacks who adopted their violent interpretation of Islam. Those Arabs are a people who come from a arrogant male dominated society and are hostile towards their own women, not to mention black women.
Note: This is not to be applied to all Arabs.
You ask me for my Interpretation. Ok
I will give you the AL-Haqqa Islamic interpretation of the verse in Question as I was in the beginning.
The reason there are two witnesses for women is to guard them against the consequences of a mistakes.
and if there are not two men, then a man and two women, such as ye choose, for witnesses, so that if one of them errs, the other can remind her.
The verse says if one of them errs the other will remind her. The error could be do to her being intimidated in a male dominated society were she is called to be a witness, it could be do to her naturally forgetting, the reason she might err could be do to a number of different reasons and thats why the reason is not giving.
But in whatever case, the second women would act as a support for the other in the event that she did err or shied away from the truth. The fact that the women has two witnesses is to her advantage and not her disadvantage.
The women is giving the advantage of being supported with help in legal proceedings and the male is not.
For instance, if a man naturally forgets and gives a statement that later proves to be false, he will not be giving the benefit of the doubt, and would be held accountable for perjury. But a woman is giving the benefit of having another person around, thereby adding strength to her testimony and guarding her against the human possibility of forgetting. This extra witness makes it less likely that she will err and be held accountable for that error or mistake. Men are not given that benefit and if they err, they will be held accountable.
So I tell you that the interpretation that you are putting to this verse is incorrect and unjust to women. Your point of view is that of the Arab men of the dessert and is oppressive.
And if two men be not (at hand) then a man and two women, of such as ye approve as witnesses, so that if the one erreth (through forgetfulness) the other will remember.
I didn't comment on this because (through forgetfulness) is the words of the author and not Quran.
_________________
The wolves sent an embassy to the sheep saying, "lets make peace, Those dogs that you keep are the problem."
The silly sheep listened, and became an easy prey to their treacherous enemy. The FFI wolves |
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MsWesterner
Joined: 11 Nov 2006
Posts: 11888
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| Posted: Fri Jan 19, 2007 11:11 am Post subject: |
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get real just a woman.....your teachings are that you as a woman are inferior and deficient and they use such words!!!
and they also say that because you are inferior and have to obey without question these "pathetic weak muslim males" that others have the right to beat you!!
get real just a woman.....women are treated like crap!!!
it happened to you even....but you know conveniently forget that. |
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mahiwal
Joined: 12 Nov 2006
Posts: 1087
Location: Miami, FL
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| Posted: Fri Jan 19, 2007 1:53 pm Post subject: |
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I vote for the option, "Other(please elaborate)"...
thanks, |
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