|
Attention: Year 2009 is here
Wishing a very Happy New Year to all members of FFI. Our new and improved site is ready. To visit main site, click at faithfreedom.org and to visit our new forum, click at forum09.faithfreedom.org and register again. Do not worry about your old forum posts and PM, everything is saved here till 31st December, 2008 for future references.
|
| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Author |
Message |
sum
Joined: 10 Jul 2005 Posts: 8527 Location: UK
|
Posted: Tue Jan 02, 2007 10:47 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Hello sonmanvb
Many thanks for the link.
sum |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
sonmanvb

Joined: 07 Dec 2006 Posts: 60 Location: USA
|
Posted: Wed Jan 03, 2007 1:59 am Post subject: |
|
|
| sum wrote: |
Hello sonmanvb
Many thanks for the link.
sum |
You are welcome sum. |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
The Cat

Joined: 23 Apr 2005 Posts: 4357
|
Posted: Sun Jan 07, 2007 4:38 am Post subject: |
|
|
Still working hard over The Lexicon.
I need to know if there is a difference between an imam and a mullah. If so which one?
Also I need precision about a kasbah, can a muslim enclave in the west could be so name.
Thanks. _________________ Authority has the same etymological root as authenticity. |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
ixolite

Joined: 27 Jan 2006 Posts: 12939 Location: land of pork and beer
|
Posted: Sun Jan 07, 2007 12:10 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Imam: prayer leader
Mullah: head of mosque
Source:
http://beranger.org/index.php?fullarticle=1501 _________________ </islam>
"Never argue with idiots. They bring you down to their level and then beat you with experience." - Goldthwait H. Dorr |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
ixolite

Joined: 27 Jan 2006 Posts: 12939 Location: land of pork and beer
|
Posted: Sun Jan 07, 2007 12:11 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| sum wrote: |
Hello ixolite
Many apologies for not acknowledging your post earlier in the thread - it was very remiss of me.
sum |
No worries sum,
not everyone can like everything. _________________ </islam>
"Never argue with idiots. They bring you down to their level and then beat you with experience." - Goldthwait H. Dorr |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
The Cat

Joined: 23 Apr 2005 Posts: 4357
|
Posted: Sun Jan 07, 2007 1:19 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Thanks but I did read this article. Yet, it is confusing. Can't a mullah also be a prayer leader? And an imam is also considered as head of a mosque, see?
So far a mullah is a recognized Islamic scholar concerning laws, regulations and traditions, while an imam isn't necesseraly such a scholar but someone mastering the Quran in Arabic and able to discuss its subtilities. He doesn't have to be as much a scholar than a mullah but the mullah doesn't necessarely know Arabic that good. Am I right, folks?
As for the kasbah, I found it. See the (ever growing) Lexicon:
A reminder: discussions and suggestions about it are to be hold here.
http://www.faithfreedom.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=34806
Bye. _________________ Authority has the same etymological root as authenticity. |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
The Cat

Joined: 23 Apr 2005 Posts: 4357
|
Posted: Mon Jan 08, 2007 1:06 pm Post subject: |
|
|
I've created a last(?) topic with ''Mohammed (mental health)'' and a third post in which I'll place all my references and even more. I think Christians will enjoy the topic ''Jesus''...
To Sum
You'll find the items you brought under the ''Unjust'' and ''Fitnah'' topics.
Thanks to you and ixolite for your help.
To Doubtless
In which chapter/verse can we read ''ALM Sabbeh Ruboka Al Azzaam'' in which dots are so crucial?
Bye. _________________ Authority has the same etymological root as authenticity. |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
The Cat

Joined: 23 Apr 2005 Posts: 4357
|
Posted: Sun Jan 14, 2007 5:46 pm Post subject: |
|
|
With the recent addition of -Arabic (understanding)- the Lexicon now covers 241 items in alphabetical order, from Abrogation to Zionist. _________________ Authority has the same etymological root as authenticity. |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
doubtless
Joined: 17 Feb 2004 Posts: 6442
|
Posted: Sun Jan 14, 2007 7:38 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| The Cat wrote: |
I've created a last(?) topic with ''Mohammed (mental health)'' and a third post in which I'll place all my references and even more. I think Christians will enjoy the topic ''Jesus''...
To Sum
You'll find the items you brought under the ''Unjust'' and ''Fitnah'' topics.
Thanks to you and ixolite for your help.
To Doubtless
In which chapter/verse can we read ''ALM Sabbeh Ruboka Al Azzaam'' in which dots are so crucial?
Bye. |
I am sorry I did not see your post earlier.
I have just spent some time looking for ALM quote (I gave you the link earlier but that link does not provide a reference where in the Quran it appears
http://users.hubwest.com/prophet/islam/koran.htm ). I have not been able to find that in the Quran. I would not use it till the reference in the Quran can be verified. I am sorry but the "missionary or christian zeal" does lead people to make claims that are invalid (at least that has been my experience). Suras 2,3,29,30,31,32 all start with ALM and none of them have the given following phrase. Other verses that begin with ALM S and ALM R also do not have the correct following phrase. I do not remember if there is someplace in the Quran that ALM is used in the middle of a Sura and not at the beginning.
At the moment I think it is not an accurate quote and hence should not be used by FFI.
Imam means leader.
It can be used as prayer leader (and sunnis do that), but Shias use to mean leader as in Imam Khamenii or Imam Khomenii. _________________ Ali Sina: "The truth is out there for those who want to see it. It is beyond doubt."
Rg Veda: "He who surveys it in the highest heaven; He surely knows - or maybe He does not!" |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
The Cat

Joined: 23 Apr 2005 Posts: 4357
|
Posted: Mon Jan 15, 2007 9:45 am Post subject: |
|
|
The Qur'an and Jesus' Divinity...
http://www.wikiislam.com/wiki/Jesus_Created_the_Universe
The divinity of Jesus and that he is the son of Allah is very well attested in the Qur'an (Thanks to Mughal, Apple Pie and Rainbow, see below). Abul Kasem brought even more arguments in his 'Bismi Allah' (its part II):
http://www.faithfreedom.org/oped/AbulKasem60530.htm
ak4.17-- Did Allah have a son? Of course, the Christians do believe this. We are fully aware of the Islam’s unshakable stand that Allah never had a son. How far this is true? (Considering Q.21.91 (-Chr.73-) and 66.12 (-Chr.107-), Arabic Ruh as the Jewish Rouah or breath of G-d). (…) Even ibn Kathir admits that Jesus carried Allah’s seed (sperm or Ruh?). So why Islam must reject the Christians’ assertion that Jesus was, after all, the son of Allah (or God)? Seems the Christians are correct in asserting Jesus is the son of Allah.
My quoting coverage didn't include the following from Abul Kasem:
On the interpretation of verse 21:91, ibn Kathir writes: `Isa and Maryam the True Believer
Here Allah mentions the story of Maryam and her son `Isa, just after mentioning Zakariyya and his son Yahya, may peace be upon them all. He mentions the story of Zakariyya first, followed by the story of Maryam because the one is connected to the other. The former is the story of a child being born to an old man of advanced years, from an old woman who had been barren and had never given birth when she was younger. Then Allah mentions the story of Maryam which is even more wondrous, for in this case a child was born from a female without (the involvement of) a male. These stories also appear in Surah Al `Imran and in Surah Maryam. Here Allah mentions the story of Zakariyya and follows it with the story of Maryam, where He says:
[وَالَّتِى أَحْصَنَتْ فَرْجَهَا]
(And she who guarded her chastity,) means, Maryam (peace be upon her). This is like the Ayah in Surah At-Tahrim:
[وَمَرْيَمَ ابْنَةَ عِمْرَانَ الَّتِى أَحْصَنَتْ فَرْجَهَا فَنَفَخْنَا فِيهِ مِن رُّوحِنَا]
(And Maryam, the daughter of `Imran who guarded her chastity. And We breathed into it [her garment] through Our Ruh) [66:12].
[وَجَعَلْنَـهَا وَابْنَهَآ ءَايَةً لِّلْعَـلَمِينَ]
(and We made her and her son a sign for the nations. ) means, evidence that Allah is able to do all things and that He creates whatever He wills; verily, His command, when He intends a thing, is only that He says to it, "Be'' -- and it is! This is like the Ayah:
[وَلِنَجْعَلَهُ ءَايَةً لِّلْنَّاسِ]
(And (We wish) to appoint him as a sign to mankind) [19:21]
[إِنَّ هَـذِهِ أُمَّتُكُمْ أُمَّةً وَاحِدَةً وَأَنَاْ رَبُّكُمْ فَاعْبُدُونِ - وَتَقَطَّعُواْ أَمْرَهُمْ بَيْنَهُمْ كُلٌّ إِلَيْنَا رَجِعُونَ - فَمَن يَعْمَلْ مِنَ الصَّـلِحَـتِ وَهُوَ مُؤْمِنٌ فَلاَ كُفْرَانَ لِسَعْيِهِ وَإِنَّا لَهُ كَـتِبُونَ
The above interpretation means that the angel (Gabriel) implanted the seed (Ruh) of Allah inside the womb of Mary. It might seem incredible but let us read ibn Kathir ‘s interpretation of verse 66:12.
(And Maryam, the daughter of `Imran who guarded her chastity (private part).) meaning, who protected and purified her honor, by being chaste and free of immorality,
[فَنَفَخْنَا فِيهِ مِن رُّوحِنَا]
(And We breathed into it (private part) through Our Ruh,) meaning, through the angel Jibril. Allah sent the angel Jibril to Maryam, and he came to her in the shape of a man in every respect. Allah commanded him to blow into a gap of her garment and that breath went into her womb through her private part; this is how `Isa was conceived. This is why Allah said here,
[فَنَفَخْنَا فِيهِ مِن رُّوحِنَا وَصَدَّقَتْ بِكَلِمَـتِ رَبَّهَا وَكُتُبِهِ]
(And We breathed into it through Our Ruh, and she testified to the truth of her Lords Kalimat, and His Kutub,) meaning His decree and His legislation.
[وَكَانَتْ مِنَ الْقَـنِتِينَ]
Even ibn Kathir admits that Jesus carried Allah’s seed (sperm or Ruh?). So why Islam must reject the Christians’ assertion that Jesus was, after all, the son of Allah (or God)? Seems the Christians are correct in asserting Jesus is the son of Allah.
In Bismi Allah part VII, Abul Kasem further develops that:
Ak4.78-- In verse 15:29 (-Chr.54-), Allah says that He had breathed His spirit into Adam. In verse 4:171 (-Chr.92), Allah also claims that Jesus Christ was a spirit from Him (i.e., born out of Allah’s spirit). The natural derivation from all these incredible feats of Allah will be that Allah must look like Jesus Christ (or Jesus must have looked like Allah).
__________________________________________________
Put in chronological order, one can check how Muhammad's Christology was developped: Chr.44 (-19.21-); Chr.54 (-15.29); Chr.73 (-21.91-); Chr.92 (-4.171); Chr.107 (-66.12-), etc. Scholars will be much interested in analysing a chronological Qur'an!
Here is what is found in the Lexicon under 'Jesus':
http://www.faithfreedom.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=34806
J.--------
Jesus (Eesa for Isa): Says the Qur'an Jesus, son of Myriam the sister of Aaron (and part of the Trinity), escaped crucifixion by the Grace of Allah. Muslims like taxing Christians of polytheism or even idolatry by ascribing a son to God but they should check their own sacred book since plenty of verses underline that Jesus was indeed the son of Allah: 2.116-117 (-Chr.87-); 21.91 (-Chr.73-); 39.4 (-Chr.59-); 46.9 9 (-Chr.66-); 66.12 (-Chr.107-). Verses 81.19-20 (-Chr.7-) say that Jesus always existed (laqawluss, quwwatin AAinda) and that he is one with God (MutaAAin 81.21). In 3.59 (-Chr.89-) again Jesus wasn't begotten (inna mathala AAinda) as he always existed, emphasized in 6.101 -Chr.55- (BadeeAAu). In 57.27 (-Chr.94-), Jesus is even proclaimed the Creator of the Universe!
More references from a post of mine:
Koran Calls Jesus the Messiah...
Revolutionary? The matter was already brought, from another angle!
See: Apple Pie... An article simply untitled ''103'' (December 2005):
http://www.faithfreedom.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=14970
http://www.faithfreedom.org/forum/viewtopic.php?p=260147#260147
http://www.faithfreedom.org/forum/viewtopic.php?p=260729#260729
http://www.faithfreedom.org/forum/viewtopic.php?p=253264#253264
Apple Pie: The Quran States the Divinity of Jesus (page 11).
http://www.faithfreedom.org/forum/viewtopic.php?p=276131#276131
Koran Calls Jesus the Messiah: a thread by Rainbow (Jan.2006).
http://www.faithfreedom.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=15263
If you add the arguments of Doubtless, it becomes quite compelling indeed!
----------------------
Maybe so, dear Doubtless, but without the specific verse it is hot air.
Thinking about it, I should add something on the etymology of Isa & Jesus' name.
-----------------------
Edited: Don't want to make a post over that but I did add some items to the Lexicon: Isa (etymology); Political Correctness; Thoughtcrime and Useful idiot. Thus it contains 245 items by now. _________________ Authority has the same etymological root as authenticity. |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
sum
Joined: 10 Jul 2005 Posts: 8527 Location: UK
|
Posted: Wed Jan 17, 2007 5:07 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Perhaps I have overlooked the word but I do not see any reference to "Persecution". Does anyone feel confident enough to define the Islamic meaning of "Persecution"?
sum |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
sum
Joined: 10 Jul 2005 Posts: 8527 Location: UK
|
Posted: Wed Jan 17, 2007 5:57 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Hello The Cat
May I suggest that Ghazwa has a separate entry? As well as describing Muhammad leading the Muslims into conflict it also was a sudden raid lead by Muhammad on unsuspecting tribes.
Ghazi means Mujahidin, which is a muslim warrior who fights and survives the battle.
Sariya A battle in which Muhammad did not particitate other than sending his warriors to battle.
Waging war against Allah. I feel that the explanation of this ought to be included.
I also think that Muhammad`s name should always be mentioned, where appropriate, whenever there was a battle or raid and he was directly or indirectly involved. It should be made clear that he was a man of war, not peace. Any thoughts?
sum |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
The Cat

Joined: 23 Apr 2005 Posts: 4357
|
Posted: Wed Jan 17, 2007 6:45 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| sum wrote: |
Hello The Cat
May I suggest that Ghazwa has a separate entry? As well as describing Muhammad leading the Muslims into conflict it also was a sudden raid lead by Muhammad on unsuspecting tribes.
Ghazi means Mujahidin, which is a muslim warrior who fights and survives the battle.
Sariya A battle in which Muhammad did not particitate other than sending his warriors to battle.
Waging war against Allah. I feel that the explanation of this ought to be included.
I also think that Muhammad`s name should always be mentioned, where appropriate, whenever there was a battle or raid and he was directly or indirectly involved. It should be made clear that he was a man of war, not peace. Any thoughts?
sum |
High, Sum.
--Persecution has been added to the Paranoia item. Also items like: Aggression, Attack, Innocent, Islamic (Conspiracy Theory) and Victim deal with the matter and most of them refer to Paranoia.
Aggression: Muslims never committed aggression, they only rightfully proselyte. Comes only from Israel and the USA, or their Allies since no possible wrongs can be attributed to Allah, His prophet or His Slaves (Muslims). See Attack, Innocent, Islamic Conspiracy Theories, Jihad and Paranoia.
Islamic conspiracy theories: Under the ignorance (Jahiliya) of many Muslims of western culture and the reasons for their superiority in relation to Islam, Islam developed different theories explaining this superiority, which have only one explanation: That Islam was deceived by the west in malicious way about its cultural superiority. Therefore Muslims by all force must strike back and fight non-Muslims (see Kafir, Kufr) and their culture to the core. Possible Muslim victims are about to be regarded as collateral damage. The aim of these conspiracy theories is to unify the Muslims and to strenghten them in the war against the west, however not an intellectual catharsis, at which end the self realization over the inadequacies of islamic cultures and their overcoming stands. See Mohammed (mental health), Narcissism, Paranoia and Superstition.
Paranoia: Islamic traditional, legitimate, encouraged and legalised form of responding to offense. The 'Persecution Complex' is a symptom of Paranoia in Psychiatry and psychology. See Victim.
--Sariya is mentioned and in it Ghazwa is found:
Sariya: Said of the battles in Mohammed's time in which the Prophet himself did not take part. A battle in which he took part is called Ghazwa, and there were 79 of them.
--Ghazi is mentionned in the Mujahidin item.
Mujahidin: Arabic for the sissie corruption that Muslim became: killer (warrior, fighter, enforcer) for the cause of Allah. A Mujahidin Ghazi is someone who has taken part in an armed struggle for the way of Allah and has survived the battle. We have no testimony of such a name (or Muslim for that matter) before at least 705, at which date Jacob of Edessa still calls them Hagarites (from Hagar). Better known in history as Saracens. See Shahid.
--Waging war against Allah could be added to Aggression, Attack, Islamic (Conspirary Theory) or Deliberate but I don't think we should multiple equivalent items.
Thanks for your involvement.
Bye. _________________ Authority has the same etymological root as authenticity. |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
sum
Joined: 10 Jul 2005 Posts: 8527 Location: UK
|
Posted: Wed Jan 17, 2007 7:13 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Hello The Cat
I appreciate what you are saying and would add that each of us would do things in a slightly different way. I understand that you would prefer not to have too much duplication but, as an example, Ghazi is mentioned under Mujahidin and is described therein. If someone was looking for the meaning of the word Ghazi it is unlikely that he would find it except by trolling through the whole list hoping to find it.
I think that a compromise would be better and, once more using Ghazi as an example, the word Ghazi could be listed and the words "See Mujahidin" added. Perhaps I am an obsessional nitpicker but I think that it would be an improvement.
Anyway, it is your bat and ball and so I will leave it to you.
sum |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
The Cat

Joined: 23 Apr 2005 Posts: 4357
|
Posted: Fri Jan 19, 2007 5:42 am Post subject: |
|
|
Until now, I've worked much more the first part than the second, usually because so much of my concentration I used to correct the first than few of it was left for the second part.
So I just made a major work over on its second part, mainly adding many 'See....' for corresponding or completing items found elsewhere in the Lexicon, but also maybe fifty corrections or precisions. Added still a few brand new items: Houris, Right Hand possession and Theo van Gogh (for a total of 248 items).
It's getting complicated to add items because it means to add many ''See'' elsewhere too. All those completing references between items make the Lexicon a work to be looked, considered and presented as a whole. I'm very proud of the result, because of all the work involved, and considering there is no equivalent so far. _________________ Authority has the same etymological root as authenticity. |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
|
|
You cannot post new topics in this forum You cannot reply to topics in this forum You cannot edit your posts in this forum You cannot delete your posts in this forum You cannot vote in polls in this forum
|
Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2002 phpBB Group
|