Head Scarf - the Absurd Logic

[dale]

[truth seeker]

[yeezevee]

[truth seeker]

Dear yeezevee,

Quick points:

1. I agree that the problem was that he claimed to be a prophet of a religion that’s applicable for all times, and hence anything immoral that seemed normal at that time is now being replicated today.. etc etc

2. I disagree that he was just like any other 7th-century warrior. Arabs used to wage wars, yes, but they upheld many fine principles when it came to keeping your word, loving your family, and minimising war. Muhammad constantly lied, encouraged Muslims to fight their non-Muslim family members, and insisted on waging wars.

Rgds.
_________________
"Fools call us hate mongers. They will be ashamed of themselves when we hoist the standard of victory in every land and victory is around the corner."
- Ali Sina

Moe Akbar!

[dale]

[Shweta]

[forward]

"Talha777 wrote:
you are kanjoos"


BEHOLD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
yet another divinely inspired, BRILLIANT utterance of UNPARALLED WISDOM from our GENIUS!!!! not that far behind in intellectual quality when compared to those uttered by his holy prophet...

oh, genius, pardon my idiocy - what's a KANJOO??

p.s. please don't stop INSPIRING + IMPRESSING US with your words of near-divine wisdom!!

[very_concerned]

In Hindi Kanjoos = Miserly

Whatever he tried to imply by that
_________________
islam and Science – unhappy bedfellows

[forward]

"If you take out uncovered MEAT and place it outside on the street, or in the garden or in the park, or in the backyard without a cover, and the CATS come and eat it ... whose fault is it, the cats or the uncovered meat?

"The uncovered MEAT is the problem."

"If she was in her room, in her home, in her hijab, no problem would have occurred"

Sheikh Hilali, Australia's TOP MUSLIM cleric.

--------------------------------------------------------

- there u go, straight from the horse's mouth.

- for those Muslims who still want to distance Islam from this sort of Islamic thinking on the groud that it's just "an individual's view", let me see the grand muftis of al-azhar and saudi arabia, yusuf al-qaradawi, as well as top shia clerics n ayatollahs ALL come out together (hand in hand or otherwise) with a FATWA declaring this animal a KAFIR.
don't just keep quiet, all the 'moderate, liberal, progressive (aka DEAF, MUTE + IN DENIAL) muslims'!! let us see YOU LOT ALL declare him as an INFIDEL, to PROVE to me that this is UNISLAMIC!! what r u waiting for?? be my guest!)


i said in my starting post in this topic:

"2, If an ugly/unattractive woman STILL NEEDS TO covers up, what does it say about the MATURITY of Muslim men??"

now we have the answer:

1, Muslim men treat women as MEAT. MEAT. MEAT. u PIECES OF MEAT must cover yourself up or else the CATS and DOGS will eat u up.

2, Muslim men see themselves as ANIMALS, BEASTS, who could not control themselves around uncovered MEAT, and r DIVINELY SANCTIONED NOT TO CONTROL THEMSELVES, n r DIVINELY PERMITTED to eat any pieces of MEAT they can find on the streets, n ALLAH WILL NOT SEND THEM TO HELL.

n if they call out "Allahu Akhbar!!!" during the eating of the MEAT (they r welcome to invite their FELLOW MEAT-EATERS to join them), there will be a GREAT reward for them in the hereafter.

n if they get jailed for doing ALLAH's good work, they'll be considered matyr, n there'll be 72 more pieces of VIRGIN MEAT awaiting them in Allah's Garden.

the ISLAMIC UMMAH is an ANIMAL KINGDOM, with Allah as the Lion King, assisted by his able Privy Councillor - Muhammed the PIG.



--------------------------------------------------------------

Muslim leader blames women for sex attacks
Richard Kerbaj
October 26, 2006
http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,20867,20646437-601,00.html

THE nation's most senior Muslim cleric has blamed immodestly dressed women who don't wear Islamic headdress for being preyed on by men and likened them to abandoned "meat" that attracts voracious animals.
In a Ramadan sermon that has outraged Muslim women leaders, Sydney-based Sheik Taj Din al-Hilali also alluded to the infamous Sydney gang rapes, suggesting the attackers were not entirely to blame.

While not specifically referring to the rapes, brutal attacks on four women for which a group of young Lebanese men received long jail sentences, Sheik Hilali said there were women who "sway suggestively" and wore make-up and immodest dress ... "and then you get a judge without mercy (rahma) and gives you 65 years".

"But the problem, but the problem all began with who?" he asked.

The leader of the 2000 rapes in Sydney's southwest, Bilal Skaf, a Muslim, was initially sentenced to 55 years' jail, but later had the sentence reduced on appeal.

In the religious address on adultery to about 500 worshippers in Sydney last month, Sheik Hilali said: "If you take out uncovered meat and place it outside on the street, or in the garden or in the park, or in the backyard without a cover, and the cats come and eat it ... whose fault is it, the cats or the uncovered meat?

"The uncovered meat is the problem."

The sheik then said: "If she was in her room, in her home, in her hijab, no problem would have occurred."

He said women were "weapons" used by "Satan" to control men.

"It is said in the state of zina (adultery), the responsibility falls 90 per cent of the time on the woman. Why? Because she possesses the weapon of enticement (igraa)."

Muslim community leaders were yesterday outraged and offended by Sheik Hilali's remarks, insisting the cleric was no longer worthy of his title as Australia's mufti.

Young Muslim adviser Iktimal Hage-Ali - who does not wear a hijab - said the Islamic headdress was not a "tool" worn to prevent rape and sexual harassment. "It's a symbol that readily identifies you as being Muslim, but just because you don't wear the headscarf doesn't mean that you're considered fresh meat for sale," the former member of John Howard's Muslim advisory board told The Australian. "The onus should not be on the female to not attract attention, it should be on males to learn how to control themselves."

Australia's most prominent female Muslim leader, Aziza Abdel-Halim, said the hijab did not "detract or add to a person's moral standards", while Islamic Council of Victoria spokesman Waleed Ali said it was "ignorant and naive" for anyone to believe that a hijab could stop sexual assault.

"Anyone who is foolish enough to believe that there is a relationship between rape or unwelcome sexual interference and the failure to wear a hijab, clearly has no understanding of the nature of sexual crime," he said.

Ms Hage-Ali said she was "disgusted and offended" by Shiek Hilali's comments. "I find it very offensive that a man who considers himself as a mufti, a leader of Australia's Muslims, can give comment that lacks intelligence and common sense."

Yesterday, the mufti defended the sermon about "adultery and theft", a recorded copy of which has been obtained and translated by The Australian.

Sheik Hilali said he only meant to refer to prostitutes as "meat" and not any scantily dressed woman with no hijab, despite him not mentioning the word prostitute during the 17-minute talk.

He told The Australian the message he intended to convey was: "If a woman who shows herself off, she is to blame ... but a man should be able to control himself". He said if a woman is "covered and respectful" she "demands respect from a man". "But when she is cheap, she throws herself at the man and cheapens herself."

Sheik Hilali also insisted his references to the Sydney gang rapes were to illustrate that Skaf was guilty and worthy of receiving such a harsh sentence.

Waleed Ali said Sheik Hilali was "normalising immoral sexual behaviour" by comparing women to meat and men to animals and entirely blaming women for being victims.

"It's basically saying that the immoral response of men to women who are not fully covered is as natural and as inevitable as the response of an animal tempted by food," he said.

"But (unlike animals) men are people who have moral responsibilities and the capability in engaging in moral action."

Revelation of the mufti's comments comes after he criticised Mr Howard last month in The Australian for saying a minority of migrant men mistreated their women. Sheik Hilali said such a minority was found in all faiths. "Those who don't respect their women are not true Muslims."

"There's a small percentage found among all religions, but we don't recognise ours as Muslims."

Aziza Abdel-Halim said Sheik Hilali's remarks during Ramadan were inaccurate and upsetting to the Muslim community.

"They are below and beyond any comment (and) do not deserve any consideration."






Thursday, 26 October 2006, 10:13 GMT 11:13 UK
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/6086374.stm

Australia fury at cleric comments

The cleric says his comments were taken out of context
Australia's most senior Muslim cleric has prompted an uproar by saying that some women are attracting sexual assault by the way they dress.
Sheikh Taj el-Din al-Hilali said women who did not wear a hijab (head dress) were like "uncovered meat".

But he has now apologised for any offence caused by his comments, The Australian newspaper reports.

Leading Muslim women condemned the comments and PM John Howard said the remarks were "appalling".

"The idea that women are to blame for rapes is preposterous," Mr Howard told reporters.

In a statement released on Thursday, Sheikh Hilali said he had been quoting another, unnamed, source and did not mean his words to condone rape.

"I unreservedly apologise to any woman who is offended by my comments. I had only intended to protect women's honour," the statement published in The Australian said.

SHEIKH TAJ EL-DIN AL-HILALI
Born in Egypt
Aged 64
Imam in Sydney
Appointed mufti of Australia in 1989

"Women in our Australian society have the freedom and the right to dress as they choose.

"Whether a man endorses or not a particular form of dress, any form of harassment of women is unacceptable."

A spokesman for Sheikh Hilali earlier said the quote had been taken out of context and referred not to sexual assault, but to sexual infidelity.

The sermon was targeted against men and women who engaged in extra-marital sex and did so through alluring types of clothes, he said.

Ban threat

The leader of Australia's largest Islamic organisation has threatened to ban the cleric from teaching at Lakemba Mosque in Western Sydney.

Tom Zreika, president of the Lebanese Muslim Association, which owns the mosque, said he condemned Sheikh Hilali's words.

"The board [of the LMA] has unlimited powers in respect of his teachings in the mosque. We can do anything that's required to prevent him from teaching in our mosque. If you haven't got the backing of Australia's largest and most established Islamic organisation then you are out on a limb," he is quoted as saying in The Australian.

If she was in her room, in her home, in her hijab, no problem would have occurred
Sheikh Hilali

But Mr Zreika said the LMA had yet to fully review the contents of the sermon and Sheik Hilali should be offered the benefit of the doubt until any offence had been proved.

A copy of the cleric's comments delivered in a sermon to some 500 worshippers in Sydney last month during the Muslim holy month of Ramadan was initially published in The Australian.

"If you take out uncovered meat and place it outside... and the cats come and eat it... whose fault is it, the cats' or the uncovered meat?" he asked.

The uncovered meat is the problem, he went on to say.

"If she was in her room, in her home, in her hijab, no problem would have occurred," he added.

Sheikh Hilali also condemned women who swayed suggestively and wore make-up, implying they attracted sexual assault.

"Then you get a judge without mercy... and gives you 65 years," he added.

Sheikh Hilali's critics have previously accused him of praising suicide bombers and claiming the attacks in the United States on 11 September 2001 were "God's work against oppressors".

High-profile case

The BBC's Nick Bryant in Sydney says the cleric's latest comments are seen as particularly insensitive because Sydney was the scene six years ago of a series of gang rapes committed by a group of Lebanese Australians, who received long prison sentences.

Finance Minister Peter Costello called on Muslims to condemn the speech.

"If you have a significant religious leader like this preaching to a flock in a situation where we've had gang rapes, in a way that seems to make it justifiable, then people that listen to that kind of comment can get the wrong idea," he said.

"They can actually think that it's not as bad as it is."

A number of leading Muslim women have already spoken out against the sermon, describing it as repulsive and offensive.

Federal Sex Discrimination Commissioner Pru Goward said the comments could be an incitement to crime.

"Young Muslim men who now rape women can cite this in court, can quote this man... their leader in court," she told Australian media.

She added that the cleric should be deported for inciting rape.

[forward]

Muslim women: My headscarf is not a threat
http://www.cnn.com/2007/WORLD/meast/08/21/hijab.godswarriors/index.html

Gayad al-Khalik lives in Egypt and says the hijab is a focus on inner beauty.

"I want to shift the attention from my outer self to my inner self when I deal with someone, I don't want them to look at me in a way that wouldn't suit me,"

"My own conclusion was it is debatable whether it is a religious obligation or not, but I chose to keep it on because I do believe in modesty and you shouldn't be showing off yourself," al-Khalik said.

------------------------

the FIRST AND FOREMOST question is of course, whether she had the 'elements of attraction' to

a, "show off", or

b, cause "them to look at me in a way that wouldn't suit me"

in the first place.

going by her logic, if there ain't nothing below that headscarf or clothes which would 'arouse lust' and need to be 'cover up', then THERE'S NO NEED TO COVER UP, innit??!!

[cherryblossom]

I was watching "Gods Warriors," last night on CCN. There was a muslim girl talking about how the hijab makes a person less preoccupied with their image and more focused on Allah. Looking at this girl I could not help noticing her figure hugging short jacket and perfect makeup.
_________________
"One day these people will be our slaves." As said by a British Muslim woman in the 1970's.

[Nymph]

Yeah, Cherryblossom, that's typical.

I get more pressure from hijabis to cover up my head. dirty looks, unfriendly.

I always get the special "sisterhood" smile from non-hijabis.

The men are big pervs. I have had them stare at the bare skin of my forearms! WTF! Unlike Westerners, there is no cultural mindset forcing them to control their behavior.

And they are hateful. I can tell they are thinking why doesn't my father/husband make me cover up. Or am I a whore dressed in sweats and a t-shirt (yeah right).

I do think the cover-up fetishsizes women's bodies even more. I hate the new fashion in niqaabs-it is practically a burkha!

Islam is a Sado-Masochistic Bondage and Discipline cult. I would have no problem with this if they kept it to their bedrooms and followed the rules of ethical SMBD-meaning it has to be purely consentual and "red light" means "stop the game!'.

But no, it's for real and they kill people.
_________________
There are eleven things which are impure: urine, excrement, sperm, bones, blood, dogs, pigs, non-Muslim men and women, wine, beer, and the sweat of the excrement-eating camel.

-Ayatollah Khomeini's little green book

[Mersk]

Malay - Muslims MAM cannot make up their minds whether wearing the hijab is a sign of a person's substantial belief in Islam or it is just purely for form to conform to men's belieft but they will chastise a Muslim girl wanting to express herself in talent/beauty contest.

The Chinese girls under the Ching's were made to shorten their feet through tortorous feet binding exercise, and where was all onmipotent Allah to regulate this ruling as a God given belief to the Chinese.

It's all perception and cultural and Mohammam created this through his own understanding of what is. BTW. Sisters-in-Islam of Malaysia don't believe in subjecting feminine beauty through standards set by Muslim men. They love their shorts and pants. They wear the pants in their tents like first wife of Mohammam did.

[simplet]

[Fatema]

ok, firstly, there is no compulsion in religion (it says so in the qur'an), so whoever is enforcing it by violence is wrong in the eyes of islam. Secondly, there's nothing wrong with encouraging girls over the age of fifteen to wear the hijab. it is something good, not bad.
i , for one, choose it wear it. My body is for me to see, nobody else, it doesn't matter that they might not even want to see it.

watch the tv, you have naked women advertising headache treatments and purfume. i don't think there's dignity in that. they're not respecting themselves in my opinion.

Another point, loads of people seem to think that the prophet was some sort of sex offender. has it never occured to anyone that he never had any children with Aisha, therefore , he never had any relations with her?

does anyone actually know the true reason why he married her? she was an extremely intelligent woman in her analysis of the qur'an and she had a superb memory. after the prophet died, she gave advice to senior companions whenevr they had a problem.

how many muslims do you know that are married to nine year olds?
so many people are under the illusion that muslim women are oppressed. i say, women who are opressed are opressed by culture, not islam.

forced marriages are forbidden in islam and yet so many muslim girls are forced in to marriage under Culture, not islam.
many women are abused under culture, not islam.

There's a hadith that even when Aisha smashed a plate in front of guests, the prophet (peace be upon him) was patient and did not say a word.

people think that hijb is something bad. it really does protect our girls. a man is more likely to take a girl in a min skirt for an easy target than the girl wearing hijab.