What interfaith dialogue?

Mughal · Posted: Tue Jul 13, 2004 6:54 pm Post subject:

Dear dr no,

from diplomacy point of view you are right in raising the issue with labelling of muslims but doubtless is also correct in defining muslims on the basis of the islamic criterion. I myself wrote something along these lines long ago showing that muslims are only muslims if they adhere to their islamic creed. Knowing what islamic creed is and knowing that one is not a muslim unless one believes in upholding this creed, one is correct in labelling all muslim the same ie sinners and the saints. This is not our fault but that muslims fundamentally identify themsleves by their religion rather than country or region.

You see dear friend, the quran only divides people as believers and unbelievers and then tells believers to declare war on unbelievers. Now whoever is a believer has to follow the quran and not listen to us kafirs.

Muslims are in two minds, they do not wish to give up the ghost of islam and they want us to accept them as well despite the fact that they are the ones who have declared a unilateral war against all the kafirs in the world for ever.

Nonetheless, world is not black and white so being a bit diplomatic is perhaps a bit better for us. However as far as the truth is concerned freeland is absolutely right from definition point of view.

Regards and
_________________
All the best from Mughal at http://www.religionandsecularism.gq.nu/favorite_links.html

DoctorNO · Joined: 18 Mar 2004 Posts: 111

Guest · Posted: Tue Jul 13, 2004 7:10 pm Post subject:

freeland, I think Dr. No was right in raising the concern.
Any article like this which labels Muslims as a whole, should state clearly that there are believing Muslims and it is them we are refering to, etc

freeland · Joined: 30 Jun 2004 Posts: 179 Location: Italy

Doc,

I wrote “Muslims”. It’s clear that I’m complaining about Muslims that follow Quran and Sunna, since you (I suppose) do not follow those teachings you are not one of those “prone to violence, haughtiness, arrogance and revenge in Allah’s cause. (I hope)
I have some non-practicing Muslim friends and when I write about “Muslims” or Islam I never think to include them.
Of course even many not Muslims are criminals, but this web site is about Islam and Muslims; we are trying to expose Islam and stubborn Muslims so if I want to write about western criminals I would chose another site.

Ps: I’m not a guy but a woman

Grazie Mughal
:P
_________________
Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the universe...
[Albert Einstein]

freeland · Joined: 30 Jun 2004 Posts: 179 Location: Italy

I Think diplomacy is for politician , for hypocrites.

If Ali thinks I’m a racist, I instigate violence or hate I don’t think he would publish my articles.
What I’m trying to say is that Muslims who follow Quran and sunna in a fundamentalist way are prone to hate all non Muslims and to kill to achieve their goals. Is it better now? I never ment to offend anyone, just to express my opinion.
_________________
Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the universe...
[Albert Einstein]

DoctorNO · Joined: 18 Mar 2004 Posts: 111

DoctorNO · Joined: 18 Mar 2004 Posts: 111

freeland · Joined: 30 Jun 2004 Posts: 179 Location: Italy

As a matter of fact a couple of them read the article and didn’t say anything ill about it, perhaps they understood what I meant. I might seem harsh and arrogant but I really don’t care what the Muslims will think about it. I don’t write to please them since they call me kafira, and don’t respect my belief, my opinions, my person.
Then not 50% but 100% of those who follow Quran and sunna think all non Muslims are kuffars, that they should be discriminated, subjugated, humiliated and killed if they apostatize or don't pay the giziya because the Quran and Sunna says so; they fall under "my subjective blanket" .
You don’t need a billion of Muslims prone to violence, hate and discrimination… just 1% of them can bring much damage to our countries. We should stop being so prig.
_________________
Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the universe...
[Albert Einstein]

freeland · Joined: 30 Jun 2004 Posts: 179 Location: Italy

Ali can take off my article from FFI it will not change my opinion.

You see I prefer people to dislike me for expressing MY opinion rather then be loved for expressing THEIR opinion.
_________________
Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the universe...
[Albert Einstein]

Mughal · Posted: Tue Jul 13, 2004 8:14 pm Post subject:

Dear Dr No,

thank you very much for your kind response and raising a serious question, I think dealing with islamic ideology is the easy bit but dealing with muslims is something that does need some sort of tolerant approach. On the other hand if we do not turn the screw on muslims a bit every now and then, they will remain unaffected and will carry on the way they are. So we are between the rock and the hard place ie we are damned if we do and damned if we don't.

We ex-muslims are suffering because of islamic creed as well as at the hands of muslims both sunnis and shias. These very muslims who live in free world do not allow us freedom to speak our minds amongst them and are ready to kill us for leaving islam. We have the very same mullahs in these countries that we have in muslim countries like Dr Qaradawi of Egypt. So the question is, how to get these muslims to see sense? We cannot get muslims to see sense merely by being critical of islam, hence the need for putting spotlight on muslims as well because they are the ones who carry out islamic injunctions. Without somehow forcing muslims to see the errors of their ways, we are not going to make much difference.

So my question is, how to get muslims to turn away from violent and barbaric islam without creating a hateful reaction to them? Perhaps to answer this question we need to have a really good discussion on this issue on a thread specially dedicated to this topic.

Regards and
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All the best from Mughal at http://www.religionandsecularism.gq.nu/favorite_links.html

Iznogoodh · Joined: 14 Feb 2004 Posts: 970

Ali Sina · Joined: 13 Feb 2004 Posts: 4607