Let Heraclius Judges who was Muhammad

Evenstar · Joined: 07 Jun 2006 Posts: 3

Hector,

I don't think Fathon will continue to debate about this here...He want to do it in Indonesian Forum now..He said that he has defeated you in this topic!

http://www.indonesia.faithfreedom.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=2789&start=20

Feodor Fathon · Joined: 16 May 2006 Posts: 681 Location: INDONESIA

Feodor Fathon · Joined: 16 May 2006 Posts: 681 Location: INDONESIA

it means Abu Sufyan didnt converted Islam yet in 629 AD ..and Heraclius invited Abu Sufyan to Jerusalem in 629 AD

...

what u say ?
_________________
WHAT EVER !!!

monasjazz · Joined: 09 Apr 2006 Posts: 3735

what does the reason Heraclius invited Abu Sufyan ?

bring out your mind to think it ..

_________________
The truth doesn't come out from your mouth , but instead the true truth comes out from the OBJECT itself

o+<

Hector · Joined: 24 May 2004 Posts: 7144 Location: Astroistan

Feodor,
Don't boast. You haven't defeated anyone.

The date of the visit of Heraclius to Jerusalem is usually taken to be 630AD. Some people say it was in 629AD but the consensus is that it was in 630AD. This is the date we should take as it is generally accepted.

http://www.roman-emperors.org/heraclis.htm

In 630 Heraclius traveled to Jerusalem where he returned the Holy Cross to the city among much acclaim.

http://ccat.sas.upenn.edu/bmcr/2003/2003-07-06.html
Heraclius' plan to forcibly baptise Jews after his triumphal entry into Jerusalem in 630

You can't get an encyclopedia more authoritative than Encylcopedia Brittanica.

http://www.britannica.com/eb/article-9040092
In 630 he personally restored the Cross to the Church of the Holy Sepulchre in Jerusalem.

Now, please go back to the Indonesian forum and apologize for falsely claiming you have defeated anyone. In fact, it is you who have been defeated.

At least before you claim you have defeated me, you should read my inevitable rebuttal.
_________________
What sort of man would f*ck a sweet little prepubescent nine-year-old child who liked playing with dolls and swings? Mo the demon Pedophile.

Feodor Fathon · Joined: 16 May 2006 Posts: 681 Location: INDONESIA

Feodor Fathon · Joined: 16 May 2006 Posts: 681 Location: INDONESIA

hector : do you have witness that heraclius came to jerusalem in 630 AD ???? ........ a name please !!

I've a witness that Heraclius came to Jerusalem in 629 AD ... because he met Heraclius in ceasing fire (hudaibiyah II agreement) betwen meccans and Muhammad.

he was ABU SUFYAN

_________________
WHAT EVER !!!

dengkul_moe · Joined: 17 May 2006 Posts: 5

Hmmmm
I've read through page 1-5, but still I can't find Feodor's answer of Hector's Q : YES or NO

Feodor Fathon · Joined: 16 May 2006 Posts: 681 Location: INDONESIA

ygalg · Joined: 27 Jul 2005 Posts: 7401 Location: israel

Let Heraclius Judges who was Muhammad
was the purpose of this thread to verify Muhammad's prophet-hood by Heraclius?
_________________
</islam>
Hajj Amin al-Husseini:
"Kill the Jews wherever you find them"
Qur'an 2:191:
"And kill them wherever you find them"

watcher123 · Joined: 09 Nov 2005 Posts: 29

i'm interested, also somebody please clarify the alleged year when Muhammad sent the letter to Heraclius (628AD allegedly)... is there any non-islamic source for?

Seifullaah73 · Joined: 11 May 2006 Posts: 94

He is right! this argument is over.

Only thing you can do is say something completely different which wil make you more idiotic or use the same excuse wich is stupidity,

No matter what you have lost this argument.

watcher123 · Joined: 09 Nov 2005 Posts: 29

I'll contribute with a reference:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heraclius
...
The war against Persia

When Heraclius took power, the Empire was in a desperate situation. Phocas's initial revolt had stripped the Danube frontier of troops, leaving the most of the Balkans at the mercy of the Avars. The Persian King Chosroes II, who had been an ally of Maurice, used his death as an excuse to launch a war against the Byzantines. Chosroes had at his court a man who claimed to be Maurice's son Theodosius, and Chosroes demanded that the Byzantines accept him as Emperor. The Persians had slowly gained the upper hand in Mesopotamia over the course of Phocas's reign; when Heraclius' revolt resulted in civil war, the Persians took advantage of the internal conflict to advance deep into Syria.

Heraclius offered peace terms to the Persians upon his accession, but Khosrau refused to treat with him, viewing him as just another usurper of Theodosius' throne. Heraclius' initial military moves against the Persians ended disastrously, and the Persians rapidly advanced westward. They took Damascus in 613, Jerusalem in 614 (damaging the Church of the Holy Sepulchre and capturing the Holy Cross in the process), and Egypt in 616. They made raids deep into Anatolia as far as Chalcedon, a town lying almost opposite of Constantinople across the Bosporous. At night, it was said, the people of Constantinople would see Persian watch-fires and their reflection on the water. The Persians were also in communication with the Avars.

The situation was so grave that Heraclius reportedly considered moving the capital from Constantinople to Carthage. But he remained in the East and worked on reorganizing the Byzantine military. He developed the idea of granting land to individuals in return for hereditary military service. The land so granted was organised into thema, a Greek word to describe a division of troops, and each theme was placed under the command of a strategos or military governor. This arrangement ensured the continuance of the Empire for hundreds of years and enabled Heraclius to reconquer lands taken by the Persians, ravaging Persia along the way.

Once he had rebuilt the army, Heraclius took the field himself in 621, the first emperor to campaign against a foreign enemy in person since Theodosius I. Confident that Constantinople was well defended, and unwilling to engage in a war of attrition over the lost eastern provinces, he marched across Asia Minor and invaded Persia itself. He would stay on campaign for several years. In 626, Constantinople itself was besieged by the Avars; but Persian attempts to cross the Bosporus and aid the Avars were repulsed by the Byzantine navy, and the Avars withdrew. Meanwhile, Heraclius acquired the assistance of the Khazars and other Turkic troops. Heraclius also exploited divisions within the Persian Empire, keeping the great Persian general Shahrbaraz neutral by convincing him that Chosroes had grown jealous of him and ordered his execution. At the Battle of Nineveh in 627, the Roman forces (without the Khazars who left Heraclius) defeated the Persians under Rhazates. When Chosroes still refused to make peace, Heraclius continued his campaign; as he approached the Persian capital of Ctesiphon, the Persian aristocracy deposed Chosroes. His successor made peace with Heraclius by restoring all the empire's former territories. The Persian Sassanid dynasty never recovered from this war; it took years for a strong king to emerge from a series of coups, and soon the Arabs overwhelmed the sinking state.

Heraclius took for himself the ancient Persian title of "King of Kings", dropping the traditional Roman imperial title of "Augustus". Later on, he styled himself as Basileus, the Greek word for "King", and that title was used by the eastern Roman emperors for the next 800 years. Heraclius also discontinued the use of Latin as the empire's official language, replacing it with Greek. Although the empire called itself Roman throughout the rest of its history, it was in reality a Hellenic empire from Heraclius onward.

In 630, he reached the height of his power, marching barefoot as a pious Christian pilgrim into Jerusalem and restoring the True Cross to the Church of the Holy Sepulchre.

watcher123 · Joined: 09 Nov 2005 Posts: 29

Another account:
http://heraclius.en.wikimiki.net/

In 629 he allied with the Ethiopians and began to win proinces he lost to Persia. The Ethiopians put tremendous military pressure on the Persians whos armies were no match for the fast moving Ethiopians, who were more than happy to crush Persia for an earlier invasion of the arabian pennisual that was Ethiopian controlled. When Khosrau still refused to make peace, Heraclius continued his campaign; as he approached the Persian capital of Ctesiphon, the Persian aristocracy deposed Khosrau. His successor made peace with Heraclius by restoring all the empire's former territories. The Persian Sassanid dynasty never recovered from this war; it took years for a strong king to emerge from a series of coups, and soon the Arabs overwhelmed the sinking state. Heraclius took for himself the ancient Persian title of "King of Kings", dropping the traditional Roman imperial title of "Augustus". Later on, he styled himself as Basileus, the Greek word for "Emperor", and that title was used by the eastern Roman emperors for the next 800 years. Heraclius also discontinued the use of Latin as the empire's official language, replacing it with Greek. Although the empire called itself Roman throughout the rest of its history, it was in reality a Hellenic empire from Heraclius onward. In 630, he reached the height of his power when he marched triumphantly into Jerusalem and restored the True Cross to the Church of the Holy Sepulchre.