Let Heraclius Judges who was Muhammad

[DeExupery]

Dear Feodor,

[Hector]

Dear Feodor,
Here are somethings you may want to think about:

1. Contrary to what your Muslim sources say, the only historically accepted date for Heraclius' visit to Jerusalem was on March 20 or 21 630CE. This is the only verified visit by the emperor to Jerusalem.

http://198.62.75.1/www1/ofm/mad/articles/BahatGoldenGate.html
http://www.bibleinterp.com/articles/Baert_Heraclius_Chosroes.htm
http://www.deremilitari.org/resources/pdfs/kaegi2.pdf
http://answering-islam.org.uk/Shamoun/false_prophecies.htm
http://www.opuslibani.org.lb/popeamman/holyseputchre.html
http://coursesa.matrix.msu.edu/~fisher/hst372/readings/treadgold1.html
http://198.62.75.1/www1/jsc/TSspreco.html


Muslim sources realize the problem with the date (which I already alluded to) and claim Heraclius was in Jerusalem in 628CE. This isn't true. The reason why the date is important is because Muhammad conquered Mecca on 20 Ramadan 8AH = Jan 11, 630CE. This means that when Heraclius was in Jerusalem Abu Sufyan already converted to Islam. Thus, the Hadith is wrong in claiming that Abu Sufyan had not yet converted to Islam. I will give my reason why Abu Sufyan reported the hadith later.



2. The hadith claims this:

He (i.e. Heraclius) then asked, 'Does anybody amongst those who embrace his religion become displeased and renounce the religion afterwards?'

I (i.e. Abu Sufyan) replied, 'No.'

This cannot be true because Abdullah Ibn Abi Sarh and 2 other scribes already apostate.

Sunan Abu Dawud XXXIII. KITAB AL-HUDUD [BOOK OF PRESCRIBED PUNISHMENTS] Chapter 1605 PUNISHMENT OF AN APOSTATE #4345 Ibn 'Abbas said: 'Abd Allah b. Abi Sarh used to write (the revelation) for the Apostle of Allah (may peace be upon him). Satan made him slip, and he joined the infidels. The Apostle of Allah (may peace be upon him) commanded to kill him on the day of Conquest (of Mecca). 'Uthman b. 'Affan sought protection for him. The Apostle of Allah (may peace be upon him) gave him protection.


Also there is this Sahih Bukhari hadith that tells us a Christian apostated.

Narrated Anas: There was a Christian who embraced Islam and read Surat-al-Baqara and Al-Imran, and he used to write (the revelations) for the Prophet. Later on he returned to Christianity again and he used to say: "Muhammad knows nothing but what I have written for him." Then Allah caused him to die, and the people buried him, but in the morning they saw that the earth had thrown his body out. They said, "This is the act of Muhammad and his companions. They dug the grave of our companion and took his body out of it because he had run away from them." They again dug the grave deeply for him, but in the morning they again saw that the earth had thrown his body out. They said, "This is an act of Muhammad and his companions. They dug the grave of our companion and threw his body outside it, for he had run away from them." They dug the grave for him as deep as they could, but in the morning they again saw that the earth had thrown his body out. So they believed that what had befallen him was not done by human beings and had to leave him thrown (on the ground). (Sahih al-Bukhari, Volume 4, Book 56, Number 814)

The 2 mentioned surahs are early surahs and therefore it is likely that this Christian apostated long before the conquest of Mecca.

There are lesser hadith (also cited by Maududi) that says a woman apostated after the Battle of Uhud and was executed.

On the occasion of Battle of Uhud (when Muslims had to retreat) a woman became apostate. On this the Holy Prophet (peace and blessings of Allah be upon him) said: 'Ask her to repent and if she does not repent, kill her.' (Baihaqi).

A woman named Umm Ruman committed apostasy. The Holy Prophet (peace and blessings of Allah be upon him) ordered: She may be presented Islam. Then if she repents, it would be better, otherwise she should be put to death. (Daraquini and Baihaqi).
http://answering-islam.org/Hahn/Mawdudi/index.htm



3. There are verses in the Quran warning against apostasy. I won't go into details since you might quibble that those don't prove any Muslim ever apostated. However there is a verse that proves there were people who apostated.

Sarwar 3:72 Some of the People of the Book say, "Believe in what is revealed to the Muslims during the day only and abandon it in the evening. This will perhaps make them give up their religion".

This shows that according to the Quran there were people who BELIEVED the Quranic revelations in the day but apostated at night.

Maududi claims ayat 3:72 was revealed just after the Battle of Badr.


Conclusion:
The timing and the content of the hadith are erroneous. The Quran's verses on apostasy disproves Abu Sufyan's claim that nobody ever apostated from Islam.

This proves one thing: Abu Sufyan made up this hadith to justify why he converted to Islam, perhaps to ingratiate himself to the new regime since it makes him appear to 'extol' Muhammad to Heraclius even though he had not yet converted to Islam.

Because of the reasons given above, this hadith is clearly nonsense made up by Abu Sufyan for selfish reasons.
_________________
What sort of man would f*ck a sweet little prepubescent nine-year-old child who liked playing with dolls and swings? Mo the demon Pedophile.

[Feodor Fathon]

[DeExupery]

Dear Feodor,

[Feodor Fathon]

i think Mecca was conquered bloodlessly in oct 13th. 630 AD
http://mahanammari.tripod.com/saudi/history.html
_________________
WHAT EVER !!!

[Hector]

[Basileos]

[Feodor Fathon]

[Hector]

Feodor,
Please don't display your ignorance. There is a difference between the Muslim lunar calendar (aka Hijri calendar aka Arabic التقويم الهجري) and the Gregorian calendar.

That is why your Ramadan does not occur at the same date every year according to the Western Gregorian calendar.

http://webexhibits.org/calendars/calendar-islamic.html

Some years Ramadan starts in December but some years it starts in February. But since it is a month, Ramadan can end in March if it starts in February.

The date for the conquest of Mecca is well known. You lied because your link does not say it occurred on October 13th.

Here are some Muslim links that will clarify your error:

Muhammad triumphantly entered Mecca at the head of a formidable force after a banishment lasting for years, on 20th Ramdan, 8/January 11, 630.
http://www.ismaili.net/histoire/history03/history328.html


Mecca was conquered in January 630.
http://www.alislam.org/library/books/mna/chapter_3.html


21 Ramadan, 8 A.H (Jan 11, 630 A.D)
The opening of Mecca.
http://www.geocities.com/mihraab786/Events.html
_________________
What sort of man would f*ck a sweet little prepubescent nine-year-old child who liked playing with dolls and swings? Mo the demon Pedophile.

[Feodor Fathon]

[Hector]

Look at the references I gave. If you don't agree then google 'conquest of Mecca Ramadan January 630' and check for yourself.

The date of Mo's conquest of Mecca is well known to be 20th Ramadan 8AH and that day in the Gregorian calendar is 11 January 630. I have given so many links already.
_________________
What sort of man would f*ck a sweet little prepubescent nine-year-old child who liked playing with dolls and swings? Mo the demon Pedophile.

[Hector]

[Feodor Fathon]

okay ..okay... !
NOW TEL ME WHEN ABU SUFYAN CONVERTED ISLAM ??
MARCH or JANUARY ??
_________________
WHAT EVER !!!

[Hector]

I'm surprised you don't know Islamic history. Abu Sufyan converted to Islam when Mo conquered Mecca in Ramadan 8AH which I have shown to be in January 630.

Read this:
http://www.witness-pioneer.org/vil/Books/MH_LM/conquest_of_makkah.htm
_________________
What sort of man would f*ck a sweet little prepubescent nine-year-old child who liked playing with dolls and swings? Mo the demon Pedophile.

[Feodor Fathon]