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Abudosama
Joined: 18 Feb 2004 Posts: 1126 Location: Planet Earth
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Posted: Sat Jul 17, 2004 8:10 pm Post subject: |
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Righteous
• Here come a programmer. :-D
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| You obviously don't know anything about computer programming either. Ever heard of structured languages like Pascal, C etc ? Ever heard of Nicklaus Wirth? Ever heard of top-down decomposition? Obviously, with any language (even Arabic) you can express things in whatever order you wish, but garbage in, garbage out. Most mainstream commercial programming languages take their heritage from Pascal, Algol and the like in the late 1970s and are hence structured. |
• Ah, I heard these name in 1982, when I was young and doing course on IBM AS/400, I did come across these languages.
• Yes, garbage in, garbage out.
| Quote: |
| Even Basic has adopted the principles and done away with the Goto's and line numbers. And since then, all reputed computer language courses have taught their students about structured programming techniques. Also, the sequence of instruction (whereby one instruction follows the previous one) is the corner stone of computers. So, your attempt to portray programs as totally unstructured is blatantly misleading or out of ignorance. |
• You call sequance occurance as un-chronological. :O
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| As for chronology - computers don't really give a toss except that one instruction is execute before another. Also regarding the output, you can actually sort by anything - not just chronology, or nothing, or if it takes your fancy - in random order |
• sort by anything, what do you call sorting ? Well we call an arrangement (as of events) in order of occurrence= chronology
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http://www.m-w.com/cgi-bin/dictionary?book=Dictionary&va=chronology&x=19&y=18
Main Entry: chro·nol·o·gy
Pronunciation: -jE
Function: noun
Inflected Form(s): plural -gies
Etymology: New Latin chronologia, from chron- + -logia -logy
1 : the science that deals with measuring time by regular divisions and that assigns to events their proper dates
2 : a chronological table, list, or account
3 : an arrangement (as of events) in order of occurrence <reconstruct the chronology of the trip> |
| Quote: |
| Depends on the Operating System's File System and the filestructure that is chosen by the program's designer. There is no reason why the data is not sorted before it is stored. There is no need for links in a flat file. |
• Ah, new for me I thought that even a flat file is linked on hard disk sectors and clusters and FAT. May be I am wrong. I have to refrsh my old memories.
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| If you want to use analogy, use an appropriate one |
• What is correct analogy ? Please explain.
• 1. PASCAL Language: is like that you throw all of your pages in dust bin and you take them out, one by one linked in thread like pearls in a neckless.
• Basic has done away with Goto's and line numbers, and doing all work un-chronologically.
• Random generation give the best results as FFI is doing. _________________ SALAM-UN-ALAIKUM, to All brothers & Sisters in Islam(submition) and Eemaan(Peace).
Good Wishes and blessing of their god or no god to non-Muslim (who lack submission and Peace). |
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Righteous

Joined: 24 Jun 2004 Posts: 3728 Location: Through the looking glass.
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Posted: Mon Jul 19, 2004 5:20 am Post subject: |
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Regarding your quote...
| Abudosama wrote: |
| • You call sequance occurance as un-chronological. |
No ... actually you did when you wrote:
| Abudosama wrote: |
| • If you know some thing about computer programming, then you must be aware that the computer programmes are written unchronogicaliy, yet there out put is chronogical. |
Here you are now acknowledging that computer sequences are NOT unchronological... make up your mind!
My point is that computer sequences ARE chronological - and hence more computer programs ARE written chronologically since the sequence is the most widely used computer construct.
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| Abudosama wrote: |
| • sort by anything, what do you call sorting ? Well we call an arrangement (as of events) in order of occurrence= chronology |
Of course sorting by events is chronological - it is a tautology. But I pointed out that you can actually sort by something else. So, chronology is NOT a prerequisite in output. See my quote....
| Righteous wrote: |
| As for chronology - computers don't really give a toss except that one instruction is execute before another. Also regarding the output, you can actually sort by anything - not just chronology, or nothing, or if it takes your fancy - in random order |
Do you agree that output does not have to be sorted chronologically? :-D The most celebrated cases are of course the encryption programs - which does NOT sort the output chronologically.
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| Abudosama wrote: |
| • What is correct analogy ? Please explain. |
That is up to you... but your point about computer programming is not correct.
Since you are obviously familiar with computers ... you must at least acknowledge that mainstream computers are excellent timekeepers (computer cycles) executing a set sequence of instruction in a very orderly and predictable manner. It is not at all appropriate to say that computers are unchronological (but somehow the output is).
All mainstream computers are deterministic, the only real example of non-deterministic machines are experimental.
Actually, re-reading your original quote ... you actually refered to computer programs. The sequence instruction is still the most underlying principle of languages. Sequences are only broken by variants of loops, and tests. If you decompose the instructions in any non-trivial computer program written in a mainstream language (except for things like ProLog etc) you will find more sequences than loops and tests.
So, I rest my case ... computer programmes are NOT written unchronologically as you contend. |
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gupsfu

Joined: 06 Jul 2004 Posts: 7919
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Posted: Mon Jul 19, 2004 5:43 am Post subject: |
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| Abudosama wrote: |
• Random generation give the best results as FFI is doing. |
FFI is obviously doing great! Otherwise why would so many smart Muslims like youself spend so much time and effort posting your words of wisdom here all the time?  |
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Abudosama
Joined: 18 Feb 2004 Posts: 1126 Location: Planet Earth
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Posted: Tue Jul 20, 2004 5:24 pm Post subject: |
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Righteous, The Binary Programmer
| Quote: |
Righteous wrote:
Here you are now acknowledging that computer sequences are NOT unchronological... make up your mind! |
| Quote: |
I wrote:-
• If you know some thing about computer programming, then you must be aware that the computer programmes are written unchronogicaliy, yet there out put is chronogical. |
• Well again you are mislead, I can briefly summarize that,
• The programme written has wide range for sorting of instructions. You put them without any order (uncronologically in strings) and each string has the required information.
• Now when you put the instructions, these string accoring to your need ooze out the data for you in your cronological(sorting) order
• and if I do the same according to my wishes again the result would logically be the same.
• But when we both check the strings we placed in our sorted table, we will find that the actual placing of various string in the programme are different then ours. Yet we can not blame the programmer that he actually put the strings according to his sequence.
• Now when programmer compile this programme i.e. machine code it and user loads it in to his PC the space allocated to the programme on hard disk may not be accurately straddled, but wherever space is available it reside.
• But when the programme is run accordint to the desire of its operator, it work(send out put) in chronological Order.
| Quote: |
This what I wrote:-
• One tiny cell of your brain is a super comuter, which gets instructions in machiene code, sotre it in RAM hard drive, process it and then print through your tongue or hand, in desired laguage by using word processor.
• All informations are placed on Hard disk of computer os Brain unchronogically (but linked).
• But you will disagree with me and must utter that all of data is stored chronogically, because you do not find any missing link. Well if the links are missed then though the data is present in storage but difficult to retrieve chronogically, because of disorder.
• Like wise You people have disorder in your brain thats why, you people can not put Ayyats of Allah chronogically.
• Re-format the hard disc of your brain if possible then may be you understand clear and concise Messegaes from the Lord of The World. If you accept His Domain. |
| Quote: |
Righteous wrote:
My point is that computer sequences ARE chronological - and hence more computer programs ARE written chronologically since the sequence is the most widely used computer construct. |
• Computer Programme is nothing but instructions, if, if not , else, true, goto, return, sort, etc. etc.
• Instructions According to the programmer are sequential but according to user these are not, since user can not reach the level of programmer. _________________ SALAM-UN-ALAIKUM, to All brothers & Sisters in Islam(submition) and Eemaan(Peace).
Good Wishes and blessing of their god or no god to non-Muslim (who lack submission and Peace). |
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Hector

Joined: 24 May 2004 Posts: 7144 Location: Astroistan
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Posted: Wed Jul 21, 2004 12:40 am Post subject: |
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Abudosama,
I'm confused with your explanation.
You wrote:
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| If you know some thing about computer programming, then you must be aware that the computer programmes are written unchronogicaliy, yet there out put is chronogical. |
Then you wrote:
| Quote: |
| Instructions According to the programmer are sequential but according to user these are not, since user can not reach the level of programmer. |
In the first place you're talking about computer programming. In the second you seem to admit that programming is sequential but you are now talking about users. What are you actually referring to? Programming or using? _________________ What sort of man would f*ck a sweet little prepubescent nine-year-old child who liked playing with dolls and swings? Mo the demon Pedophile. |
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Righteous

Joined: 24 Jun 2004 Posts: 3728 Location: Through the looking glass.
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Posted: Wed Jul 21, 2004 2:12 am Post subject: |
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| Abudosama wrote: |
| Righteous, The Binary Programmer |
Just like all muslim zealots - start with labelling someone and then progress to insults later on ... is this the best you can do?
I quote you to assert your original point:
| Abudosama wrote: |
| • If you know some thing about computer programming, then you must be aware that the computer programmes are written unchronogicaliy, yet there out put is chronogical. |
Now you quote:
| Abudosama wrote: |
| Now when programmer compile this programme i.e. machine code it and user loads it in to his PC the space allocated to the programme on hard disk may not be accurately straddled, but wherever space is available it reside |
Firstly, the low level instructions are not what the programmer has written ... it has been translated into machine or p-code. So, your point is not valid.
Secondly, you are now referring to non-contiguous storage - not about the writting of programs. Your original assertion is about the writing of programs. Not the same thing.
| Abudosama wrote: |
• The programme written has wide range for sorting of instructions. You put them without any order (uncronologically in strings) and each string has the required information.
• Now when you put the instructions, these string accoring to your need ooze out the data for you in your cronological(sorting) order
• and if I do the same according to my wishes again the result would logically be the same.
• But when we both check the strings we placed in our sorted table, we will find that the actual placing of various string in the programme are different then ours. Yet we can not blame the programmer that he actually put the strings according to his sequence. |
Don't understand what you are actually saying here. Perhaps you could write in better English.
If you are referring to "strings" in table or "string tables" within programs, they are not strictly the program itself - they are input to the programs. If your program is a sorting program, of course the input can be unsorted. But that was not your original point - which is about the writting of programs.
| Quote: |
| • Instructions According to the programmer are sequential but according to user these are not |
So, you admit that the programmer does not write "unchronological" code now. Make up your mind.
Besides, it does not matter what the user perceives since we are discussing how the programmer actually goes about writing code. |
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Abudosama
Joined: 18 Feb 2004 Posts: 1126 Location: Planet Earth
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Posted: Sat Jul 24, 2004 9:52 pm Post subject: |
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Creation Of Man
http://it-is-truth.org/CreationOfMan.shtml
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We present Professor Emeritus Keith Moore, one of the worlds prominent scientists of anatomy and embryology. We asked Professor Moore to give us his scientific analysis of some specific Qur'aanic verses and prophetic traditions [Ahadeeth] pertaining to his field of specialization.
Professor Moore is the author of the book entitled The Developing Human. He is Professor Emeritus of Anatomy and Cell Biology at the University of Toronto, Canada, where he was Associate Dean of Basic Sciences at the Faculty of Medicine and for 8 years was the Chairman of the Department of Anatomy. Dr. Moore had also previously served at the University of Winnipeg, Canada for eleven years. He has headed many international associations of anatomists and the Council of the Union of Biological Sciences. Professor Moore was also elected to the membership of the Royal Medical Association of Canada, the International Academy of Cytology, the Union of American Anatomists and the Union of North and South American Anatomists. and in 1984 he received the most distinguished award presented in the field of anatomy in Canada, the J.C.B. Grant Award from the Canadian Association of Anatomists.
He has published many books on clinical anatomy and embryology, eight of them are used as reference works in medical schools and have been translated into six languages.
When we asked Professor Moore to give us his analysis of the Qur'aanic verses and prophetic statements, he was amazed. He wondered how the Prophet Muhammad (sallAllahu alaihi wa sallam), fourteen centuries ago, could describe the embryo and its development phase in such detail and accuracy, which scientists have come to know only in the last thirty years. Very quickly, however, Professor Moores amazement grew into admiration for this revelation and guidance. He introduced these views to intellectual and scientific circles. He even gave a lecture on the compatibility of modern embryology with the Qur'aan and Sunnah where he stated: |
_________________ SALAM-UN-ALAIKUM, to All brothers & Sisters in Islam(submition) and Eemaan(Peace).
Good Wishes and blessing of their god or no god to non-Muslim (who lack submission and Peace). |
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Phedippedes
Joined: 20 Mar 2004 Posts: 8092 Location: Not on FFI anymore
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Posted: Sat Jul 24, 2004 10:34 pm Post subject: |
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| Abudosama wrote: |
| and in 1984 he received the most distinguished award presented in the field of anatomy in Canada, the J.C.B. Grant Award from the Canadian Association of Anatomists. |
1984 Abud? That's over 20 years ago, itsn't it time the Sheiks bride, trick or fool someone new into saying how miraculous the Quran fits with 'science'.
Why not talk about sperm coming from the backbone? The earth being flat? The heavens being placed upon invisble pillars to keep them from falling down? How do you like them apples? |
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babushree

Joined: 10 Apr 2004 Posts: 540 Location: paradise of virgin babes
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Posted: Sun Jul 25, 2004 1:40 am Post subject: |
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| Abudosama wrote: |
| ha ha ha ha ha |
osama bullsh*it *baloney* |
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Abudosama
Joined: 18 Feb 2004 Posts: 1126 Location: Planet Earth
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Posted: Sun Jul 25, 2004 6:30 pm Post subject: |
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color=red]BABU SHREE The FORGER. [/color]
Itching ? 8-| :-D :O  _________________ SALAM-UN-ALAIKUM, to All brothers & Sisters in Islam(submition) and Eemaan(Peace).
Good Wishes and blessing of their god or no god to non-Muslim (who lack submission and Peace). |
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Righteous

Joined: 24 Jun 2004 Posts: 3728 Location: Through the looking glass.
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Posted: Mon Jul 26, 2004 2:24 pm Post subject: |
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Unfortunately, Prof. Keith Moore was a dupe that was unwittingly used by Muslims to prove their point. Goes to show that you cannot dice with the devil - your name will forever be misused by him.
This poor man's work has been waylaid by these bandits.
See http://answering-islam.org.uk/Index/M/moore.html
MOORE, KEITH L., PhD, F.I.A.C.
of the Department of Anatomy, University of Toronto, Canada. He stimulated a great deal of interest within Islam by his article "A Scientist's Interpretation of References to Embryology in The Qur'an". Because of his influential position, many Muslims thought that scientific information on embryology has vindicated the Qur'an. Interestingly, however, Dr. Moore has not risked his reputation in the medical establishment by publishing his findings except in Islamic journals. The Islamic edition of his textbook is not even available in the British Library or the U.S. Library of Congress, nor in the medical libraries in Western countries. It is thus clear that this article does not find its recognition among his peer scientists.
Follow the link to http://answering-islam.org.uk/Quran/Science/embryo.html:
It seems that not even Prof. Moore is sufficiently convinced by the scientific "facts" in the Qur'an to risk his reputation as a highly respected professor of anatomy in the medical establishment. The Islamic edition of his textbook is not available even in the British Library or the US Library of Congress, let alone other medical libraries in Western countries [54], presumably because he is aware that not only do the Islamic contributions in it contradict known science, but they also contradict what he has written in the standard version of his textbook.
This foolish man was bought by the Muslims to write a version of his book for Islam. The devil's temptations are too much for the weak to overcome ... |
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THHuxley

Joined: 20 Feb 2004 Posts: 2474 Location: Denver, Colorado
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Posted: Mon Jul 26, 2004 7:42 pm Post subject: More on Moore. |
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More on Moore:
Dr. Keith L. Moore, Ph.D., F.I.A.C. of the Department of Anatomy, University of Toronto, Canada, has become a favorite of Islamic apologists ever since he accepted an invitation to produce a special edition of his Embryology Text Book specifically for use by Muslim students in Islamic Universities.
In articles published widely across Islamic web sites, Dr. Moore goes on the record to provide a generous assessment of the Qur’an and hadith in the light of modern knowledge about embryology. But a review of his “analysis” shows the extent to which he had to twist both the Islamic scriptures and modern science in order to get the “facts” to correlate.
Specifically, Moore’s intellectual lapses are these:
1) He liberally translates Arabic into terms that no Arabic speaker would consider justified, but that allows him to pretend the Arabic is closer to truth than it really is. For example, in spite of the fact that almost three dozen translations of “alaqah” found on line never once exclude the word “clot,” Moore writes instead that “The word "alaqah" refers to a leech or bloods*cker.”
2) He completely ignores the timing of phases dictated by the hadith, for to consider them renders even his mistranslation unintelligible. For example, after mistranslating “alaqah” to mean “a leech or bloods*cker,” he then compares it to the human embryo at 24 days gestation. But 24 days is still firmly within the “nutfah” phase, when the embryo should actually look like a “drop of seed.” He does the same with “mudghah,” comparing it with the embryo at 28 days, still in the “nutfah” phase and only four days later than he had assigned to “alaqah.”
Why did he do it?
One might speculate on the reasons Dr. Moore might have for this travesty of embryology, but actually the answer is a simple one. He was quite well paid by the Saudi government for the use of his name, and for no real additional work. The textbook he delivered to the Saudi Universities that commissioned the work is titled, "The Developing Human: Clinically Oriented Embryology with Islamic Additions." (ISBN 0-7216-6472-5).
The base textbook was work that Moore had completed years before. He did nothing new for this new edition. The “Islamic Additions” are actually the work of an Abdul-Majeed A. Azzindani, and not Dr. Moore’s at all.
Now that's good old fashioned capitalism.
An interesting side bar (of no real importance, but entertaining none the less) is that the Acknowledgments for the book recognize a number of “distinguished scholars” who supported the book with time or money. And number 6 on the list?
Sheik Osamah bin Ladin. _________________ Nullius in Verba |
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mike England

Joined: 04 Jun 2004 Posts: 383 Location: england
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Posted: Mon Jul 26, 2004 10:43 pm Post subject: Re: More on Moore. |
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| THHuxley wrote: |
More on Moore:
Dr. Keith L. Moore, Ph.D., F.I.A.C. of the Department of Anatomy, University of Toronto, Canada, has become a favorite of Islamic apologists ever since he accepted an invitation to produce a special edition of his Embryology Text Book specifically for use by Muslim students in Islamic Universities.
In articles published widely across Islamic web sites, Dr. Moore goes on the record to provide a generous assessment of the Qur’an and hadith in the light of modern knowledge about embryology. But a review of his “analysis” shows the extent to which he had to twist both the Islamic scriptures and modern science in order to get the “facts” to correlate.
Specifically, Moore’s intellectual lapses are these:
1) He liberally translates Arabic into terms that no Arabic speaker would consider justified, but that allows him to pretend the Arabic is closer to truth than it really is. For example, in spite of the fact that almost three dozen translations of “alaqah” found on line never once exclude the word “clot,” Moore writes instead that “The word "alaqah" refers to a leech or bloods*cker.”
2) He completely ignores the timing of phases dictated by the hadith, for to consider them renders even his mistranslation unintelligible. For example, after mistranslating “alaqah” to mean “a leech or bloods*cker,” he then compares it to the human embryo at 24 days gestation. But 24 days is still firmly within the “nutfah” phase, when the embryo should actually look like a “drop of seed.” He does the same with “mudghah,” comparing it with the embryo at 28 days, still in the “nutfah” phase and only four days later than he had assigned to “alaqah.”
Why did he do it?
One might speculate on the reasons Dr. Moore might have for this travesty of embryology, but actually the answer is a simple one. He was quite well paid by the Saudi government for the use of his name, and for no real additional work. The textbook he delivered to the Saudi Universities that commissioned the work is titled, "The Developing Human: Clinically Oriented Embryology with Islamic Additions." (ISBN 0-7216-6472-5).
The base textbook was work that Moore had completed years before. He did nothing new for this new edition. The “Islamic Additions” are actually the work of an Abdul-Majeed A. Azzindani, and not Dr. Moore’s at all.
Now that's good old fashioned capitalism.
An interesting side bar (of no real importance, but entertaining none the less) is that the Acknowledgments for the book recognize a number of “distinguished scholars” who supported the book with time or money. And number 6 on the list?
Sheik Osamah bin Ladin. |
DEAR THUXLEY
dont you think you have made a big enough fool of yourself yet??
because i do
http://www.faithfreedom.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=916
:(X :(X _________________ www.jesusforums.net |
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THHuxley

Joined: 20 Feb 2004 Posts: 2474 Location: Denver, Colorado
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Posted: Mon Jul 26, 2004 11:01 pm Post subject: Re: More on Moore. |
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| mike England wrote: |
DEAR THUXLEY
dont you think you have made a big enough fool of yourself yet?? |
Apparently not. But if you keep providing such a good example, I might eventually get the hang of it. _________________ Nullius in Verba |
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Hector

Joined: 24 May 2004 Posts: 7144 Location: Astroistan
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Posted: Tue Jul 27, 2004 12:44 am Post subject: |
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mike England,
As a devout Christian, you should ask yourself if Jesus Christ the Saviour would act as silly as you do. I suppose He would forgive you for you cannot help yourself - God made you the way you are.
The heart of the wise is in the house of mourning, but the heart of fools is in the house of mirth. Ecclesiastes (ch. VII, v. 4)
It is better to hear the rebuke of the wise, than for a man to hear the song of fool. Ecclesiastes (ch. VII, v. 5)
Wisdom is before him that hath understanding; but the eyes of a fool are in the ends of the earth. Proverbs (ch. XVII, v. 24) _________________ What sort of man would f*ck a sweet little prepubescent nine-year-old child who liked playing with dolls and swings? Mo the demon Pedophile. |
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