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ibn_rushd2
Joined: 14 Feb 2004
Posts: 2454
Location: Canada
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 Posted: Mon Jun 07, 2004 11:00 pm Post subject: My testimony at last. |
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This begins in the fall of 2001 when I took my first course on western religion for my minor (now a major and now one year till grad). It started on a Mon and 9/11 was the next day. The following day, Wed, the teacher said that it was a bad day. Throughout the semestre I learned from watching TV and reading the internet (for answers, I was curious) that Islam was peace and the terrorists were "hijacking" islam to the detriment of everyone. I bought a Koran transl. by Ahmed Ali. I read and realised that it really was from God and that the Bible was lies. Ahmed Ali was hostile to the hadith, saying that the replacement theory (one verse cancels another) was fiction from the hadith. This made my finding of the Submitters/19ers such a relief. They're a group in Tuscon whose founder (or renewer) was martyred by al-Qaeda in the early 90s. Modern science of course proved the Koran was from God since both were from the same source. Don't ask me to explain why it was easy to believe, it just happened.
Anyway, back to the uni course. I learned that there was some transl. in the Middle Ages and that as a result, no Greek works survive, PERIOD. It's all in Arabic, Greek was dead as dead could be. I didn't know that this was not true, and since I was interested in the New Testament for the early Christianity and knew it was in Greek, this contradiction didn't really click in my mind. I never thought about it. Sort of like when I accepted the Koranic science 120% my brain just shut off.
And so it was that Islam holds the key, and the West is wrong. If you have a hard time understanding this and how the connections can be made, don't worry: all Muslims think like this. And all Muslim wannabes, aka ACADHIMMIS.
I had bought the Koran in Oct 2001 and gobbled it up quickly. Throughout I really, REALLY wanted to go out and kill Jews, since every line told me to kill them. Think of those schizophrenic tests that ask "every day at noon the devil tells me to kill someone" and you'll get the picture. Within 2 months, I had decided that I didn't want to act on the impulses, since that would be murder, as delineated by Canadian law. Also, the Koran brought back memories of my fight to get rid of the indoctrinated NAZIsm that we all go through. As kids we all are white supremies, blacks and Jews and gays are evil, etcetc. So this was a return to the battlefield when I was 19. 19 years of NAZIsm that I had been fighting in myself and in others, and now it was all coming back, like a gift from God.
My time as a believing Muslim lasted a whole 2 months. I spat propaganda like the others, I believed the science, I was IT. This is probably the shortest time that anyone has ever been a Muslim, but I learned enough to get away.
Again with the Acadhimmis. Last winter (2003) I took a course on Islam. I got the same old, same old that no Greek existed, Islam is the true religion. The prof even implied that Hitler was a hero, if not God! More NAZIsm, right in the schools, getting away with murder. He also implied, along with another prof of another course, that I was a racist and that all the materials I used for my papers were biased and were racist too. Needless to say, I haven't taken another course with them.
My final and absolute step away from Islam happened last spring in a course I was taking on the history of religion and science to 1600. In this course, I learned that, yes, indeed do the Greek works survive and they are plentiful. That put the Islamic propaganda to rest. At this same time, I began searching for anything on Ibn Warraq, since I had read one of his books in the Islam class (the prof said he had an "axe to grind", and he said that Ibn al-Rawandi is "an angry man"). Indeed I found more about him, in fact I found his website. I posted in the guestbook and the forum and read the articles. I bought all 5 books soon afterwards. I emailed him and he's the sweetest person I have ever talked to. I am guaranteed 1 friend in the world, even if I can't see him.
My long and painful journey of leaving Islam, without any help at all, is over. The only problem now is that I have to watch my back, super-back up my essays with notes, and live with constant fear/diarrea eveyday. Only then will they be put in their place.
Feel free to print this or send it to family and friends. If I'm the only ex-muslim voice any of you have heard, then now you know what you're up against. I hope you all understand what I have to live with everyday.
Posted by: Ibn Rushd at June 1, 2004 08:19 PM |
From Jihad Watch and a tie in with our new apostate, InshallahsProgress. |
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InshallahsProgress
Joined: 07 Jun 2004
Posts: 375
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| Posted: Tue Jun 08, 2004 8:58 am Post subject: |
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Very interesting story Rusd, thank you. It is interesting to hear how we were effected by the Qur'an in similar ways and how our experiences were different. I would also say that at one point I was IT, spewing the propaganda, but looking back I never really internalized it or believed it. I was a skeptic since the winter break after I came back to school, but I kept trying to make myself believe, so I spat the propaganda. Looking back I relize why the non-muslims in my dorm found me to be such a freak! I don't blame them one bit...
I am happy you were able to get away from the hate. As I posted in the other thread, I am happy that my core values never really changed, bucause unbeknownst to me I had actually converted to Karen Armstrongism rather than Islam. Once I realised what Islam really was, it was not long before I finally was able to pull away. I was close to hating...too much more propaganda and I really would have been it, but I got away fast enough. I'm glad it worked for both of us in the end. |
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SteelAngel
Joined: 16 Apr 2004
Posts: 215
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| Posted: Tue Jun 08, 2004 5:21 pm Post subject: |
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Maybe i'm a bit lost here. And I know that you said that you can't explain it, but after 9/11, I bought a copy of the Koran in translation. The Penguin classics version by Dawood.
Instead of seeing truth, I was horrified by some of the supposed 'commandments' - and instantly rejected Islam as a philosophy. These days, I stick to the Skeptic's Annotated version of things:
http://www.skepticsannotatedbible.com - links to the Koran and Book of Mormon too! |
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ibn_rushd2
Joined: 14 Feb 2004
Posts: 2454
Location: Canada
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| Posted: Fri Jun 25, 2004 3:24 pm Post subject: |
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| Hi SteelAngel, when I read it, I believed because it said that if I didn't, then I would go to hell. I didn't want to go to hell so I believed. Further along in it (it took a few months to read, the same length as I was Muslim) on just about every line it told me to kill Jews and that they are evil. Up to this time (Nov 2001) I had been fighting some long indoctrinated antisemitism/Nazism from my youth and this brought the fear and hate all back. Even with the soft Ahmed Ali translation I thought it was wrong and I couldn't believe after that. {The book in the link must be an older one, since mine was green.} |
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InshallahsProgress
Joined: 07 Jun 2004
Posts: 375
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| Posted: Wed Jun 30, 2004 9:08 am Post subject: |
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I had an even softer translation, translated by an Ahmadiyya named Mulana Muhammad Ali. Once I became Muslim my Muslim brothers informed me that Ahmadiyyas were an apostate cult :O , so I got a harder Saudi translation. Islam grew more and more unappealing as I learned how many new groups of people I hate to start hating
To quote from American History X...hate is baggage.
It's a pain in the butt to have to hate so many new groups of people. Now that I'm not a Muslim I can relax and stop hating them. :-0 |
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yeezevee
Joined: 17 Feb 2004
Posts: 17109
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| Posted: Wed Jun 30, 2004 11:00 am Post subject: |
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| InshallahsProgress: Once I became Muslim my Muslim brothers informed me that Ahmadiyyas were an apostate cult.. |
Hi InshallahsProgress, these Ahmadiyyas are not only cultish but they are ISLAMIC JOKERS of ISLAM., Just to find out how stupid they are one has to read their site and their stories
These Rascals have another story they use to advertise and prove Ahmadiyya Islam is from the Promised Messiah Hazrat Mirza Sahib, A NUT CASE FROM PUNJAB
http://www.alislam.org/library/lekh-ram.htm
Death of Lekh Ram A Sign for the people of India
it says
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.....These details are so clear and determinate that nobody can have any doubt about their meaning and content. Five years after the publication of these prophecies, people started ridiculing the Promised Messiah. The time limit of the prophecies, they said, was over and nothing had happened! Could Mirza Sahib still be true? However, the next Eid-ul-Fitr, (which marks the end of the Ramadhan), in the afternoon, an unknown person stabbed Lekh Ram in the stomach with a sharp knife. Stabbed on Saturday, Lekh Ram died on Sunday.
The Word of God came true in all its grim detail. The prophecy had laid down a six year limit. Lekh Ram died within six years. The prophecy said the fatal even would occur on a day close to the Eid, and that this day will prove the Eid of the believers. It happened exactly like this. Lekh Ram was stabbed on the day following the Eid. The prophecy said that Lekh Ram would meet his end at the hands of a fearful red-looking person. That is exactly what happened. Lekh Ram was to be a victim of the sword of Muhammad; so, he died of a stab. The prophecy said that Lekh Ram would meet a fate similar to the fate of the Calf of Samri. This calf was dismembered on a Saturday, burnt to ashes, the ashes dispersed into a river. This is what happened to Lekh Ram. Being a Hindu he was cremated, his ashes thrown into a river. |
What a croaks to believe this stupid guy Hazrat Mirza Sahib another Mr. PUBH from Islam.. and this is as recent as 1893 A.D. When it comes to religions such as this STUPIDITY HAS NO LIMITS
with best regards
yeezevee |
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mike England
Joined: 04 Jun 2004
Posts: 383
Location: england
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| Posted: Sat Jul 03, 2004 7:19 pm Post subject: |
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im behind yeezevee 8-| 8-| :O 
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www.jesusforums.net |
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yeezevee
Joined: 17 Feb 2004
Posts: 17109
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| Posted: Sun Jul 04, 2004 4:52 am Post subject: |
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mike England: im behind yeezevee 8-| 8-| :O :O  |
What is happening mike? good to hear you., I am glad some one is watching over me., Convey my thoughts to God, The God you feel and You know..He can not be as bad as Mohammad's God Allaha..LOL...
with best wishes
yeezevee |
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PSSABIS
Joined: 25 Aug 2004
Posts: 15
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| Posted: Wed Aug 25, 2004 5:51 am Post subject: |
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Islam is not what Muslims DO. Islam is what Muslims are "supposed to" do. Even if every Muslim in the world was "evil", Islam is still the Truth.
Islam is "willful, sincere submission & obedience to our Creator, the one true God". Islam was practiced by Adam & Eve, Noah, Abraham, Isaac, Ismael, Moses, Jesus and Muhammad (peace be upon them all).
A Muslim is simply one who believes in "Islam" and submits to God, and believes that God and God alone is All-Powerful, All-Mighty, that God is in control of everything that happens, without exception, that nothing happens unless God wills it.
If a person is committing evil, or hurting innocent people, it is hard to consider them a "Muslim" ("one who believes in submission to our Creator"). Only God knows the Truth of any individual situation. For example, God alone knows if a murder is justifiable (ie self-defense) or if the person is going against God's command that we shall not kill innocent people.
A true believer, a "Muslim", follows God's commands to the best of his ability, trying his/her best to be kind to people, work for justice, stop oppression, and lead a moral life, and sincerely repents when going against God's commands.
God is Most Gracious, Most Compassionate.
And God knows best. |
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gupsfu
Joined: 06 Jul 2004
Posts: 7919
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| Posted: Wed Aug 25, 2004 6:02 am Post subject: |
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| PSSABIS wrote: |
If a person is committing evil, or hurting innocent people, it is hard to consider them a "Muslim" ("one who believes in submission to our Creator"). Only God knows the Truth of any individual situation. For example, God alone knows if a murder is justifiable (ie self-defense) or if the person is going against God's command that we shall not kill innocent people.
A true believer, a "Muslim", follows God's commands to the best of his ability, trying his/her best to be kind to people, work for justice, stop oppression, and lead a moral life, and sincerely repents when going against God's commands. |
Yes there are moral and kindness in Islam, but they only apply to Muslims. Justice, on the other hand, is applied to kafirs. The Quran makes that very clear. No unbelievers are innocent, the term "innocent people" also only applies to Muslims.
Osama bin Ladin is a good Muslim, because he carries out justice for Allah.
You are also a good Muslim, because you try to stupify us with your "Islam means peace" rhetorics.
You will both get your fair share of virgins.
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PSSABIS
Joined: 25 Aug 2004
Posts: 15
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| Posted: Thu Aug 26, 2004 2:55 am Post subject: |
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It is clear from your post that you have never read the Qur'an (or an English translation), but perhaps you read selected verses taken out of context. And maybe some hadith, taken out of context. If you read the Qur'an, without any predisposed prejudice, you can see for yourself how mercy and compassion are commanded of Muslims to ALL people, Muslim and non-Muslim alike.
Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) was a noble man, known as "Al Amin" (the Trusted One) long before he received revelation. When he started preaching, people feared him only when they believed false rumors, or when they did not want to lose their status (wealth, power, etc) with the spread of Islam. Stories abound of people accepting Islam (willing,sincere submission & obedience to our Creator, the one true God) and accepting his prophethood while he was alive once they knew his character and understood his true message (Islam)... even people like his famous companion Omer (peace be upon him) who set out to KILL him, until he actually met him and heard the revelation (Qur'an) himself. At that time, he accepted Islam and became one of Prophet Muhammad's (pbuh) nearest & dearest companions.
See what non-Muslims of more recent times have to say:
http://www.islamtomorrow.com/muhammad.htm
Excerpt:
Mahatma Gandhi, speaking on the character of Muhammad (pbuh) says in 'YOUNG INDIA':
"I wanted to know the best of one who holds today undisputed sway over the hearts of millions of mankind... I became more than convinced that it was not the sword that won a place for Islam in those days in the scheme of life. It was the rigid simplicity, the utter self-effacement of the Prophet, the scrupulous regard for his pledges, his intense devotion to his friends and followers, his intrepidity, his fearlessness, his absolute trust in God and in his own mission. These and not the sword carried everything before them and surmounted every obstacle. When I closed the 2nd volume (of the Prophet's biography), I was sorry there was not more for me to read of the great life." ... >
For anyone who sincerely wants to learn about the true Islam (willing, sincere submission & obedience to God), please learn from accurate sources, such as:
http://www.islamtomorrow.com (hosted by a former Christian preacher)
http://www.islam-guide.com
the miracles of the Qur'an:
http://www.islamtomorrow.com/miracle_in_quran.asp
There are 1.5 BILLION Muslims in the world today; that is 25% of the entire world population!
(Although there is NO nation on earth that follows Islamic law, "Sharia")
There are 1.5 Billion people in the world who have memorized at least a few chapters of the Qur'an, word for word, as Muslims recite parts of the Qur'an in their 5 daily prayers.
There are 9 Million people in the world who have memorized the ENTIRE Qur'an, word for word, some younger than 10 years old!
God said he would protect the Qur'an, and He has. The Qur'an is in the hearts and minds of BILLIONS of people around the world.
Every God-fearing, God-loving person should pray to God to guide them. As the Bible and Qur'an agree, we must overcome our own vain desires, become full of humility, and seek God's help guiding us to do His will on earth.
"God forbids you not with regard to those who fight you not for (your) faith, nor drive you out of your homes, from dealing kindly and justly with them, for God loves those who are just." [Qur'an, 60:8]
"It is not fitting for the believing man nor for the believing woman, that whenever Allah and His Messenger have decided any matter, that they should have any other opinion."
[Qur'an, 33:36]
"Mankind! We created you from a single soul, male and female, and made you into nations and tribes, that you may come to know one another. Truly, the most honored of you in God's sight is the greatest of you in piety."
[Qur'an, 49:13]
May God guide you & give you peace in your heart. |
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gupsfu
Joined: 06 Jul 2004
Posts: 7919
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| Posted: Thu Aug 26, 2004 3:59 am Post subject: |
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| PSSABIS wrote: |
| Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) was a noble man, known as "Al Amin" (the Trusted One) long before he received revelation. |
LOL!
| PSSABIS wrote: |
| See what non-Muslims of more recent times have to say: |
Don't you think it's a bit pathetic for a Muslim needing to find encourgement in such crap written by Islam apologists?
| PSSABIS wrote: |
| For anyone who sincerely wants to learn about the true Islam (willing, sincere submission & obedience to God), please learn from accurate sources, such as: |
Why do you need someone else's opinion on how the Quran should be interpreted? The word of Allah was recorded in the Quran in simple and straightforward manner that average people should have no difficult grasping its meaning on their own.
| PSSABIS wrote: |
| the miracles of the Qur'an: |
Only stupid people fall for such stupid claims. Read this and stop being stupid:
The Miracles of Allah
| PSSABIS wrote: |
There are 1.5 BILLION Muslims in the world today; that is 25% of the entire world population!
(Although there is NO nation on earth that follows Islamic law, "Sharia")
There are 1.5 Billion people in the world who have memorized at least a few chapters of the Qur'an, word for word, as Muslims recite parts of the Qur'an in their 5 daily prayers.
There are 9 Million people in the world who have memorized the ENTIRE Qur'an, word for word, some younger than 10 years old!
God said he would protect the Qur'an, and He has. The Qur'an is in the hearts and minds of BILLIONS of people around the world. |
So, what's your point? Are you saying that so many people can't be all wrong therefore Islam is the truth?
A few centuries ago virtually all of mankind believed the Earth was flat. Did that mean the Earth was flat? It's stupid to make illogical associations, so don't do it.
| PSSABIS wrote: |
| Every God-fearing, God-loving person should pray to God to guide them. As the Bible and Qur'an agree, we must overcome our own vain desires, become full of humility, and seek God's help guiding us to do His will on earth. |
Let's see now. You're saying that people should trust Allah because the Quran says so ...., and we should trust the Quran because it's the word from God ..., Doesn't this sound funny to you?
So, Allah tells you to trust the Quran, and the Quran tells you to trust Allah, and Allah tells you to trust the Quran, and the Quran tells you to trust Allah, and Allah tells you to trust the Quran, and the Quran tells you to trust Allah, and Allah tells you to trust the Quran, and the Quran tells you to trust Allah, and Allah tells you to trust the Quran, and the Quran tells you to trust Allah, and Allah tells you to trust the Quran, and the Quran tells you to trust Allah, and , ..... LOL!
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