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gupsfu
Joined: 06 Jul 2004
Posts: 7919
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 Posted: Sat Nov 06, 2004 4:35 pm Post subject: Re: Allaah will allow Intercession on the Day of Judgment! |
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| sbwus wrote: |
| Allaah will allow Intercession on the Day of Judgment! |
... and intercourse too.
| sbwus wrote: |
| The Seven Oft Repeated Verses of Glorious Qur’aan |
The senile old fart kept forgetting what he had already said.
What's so glorious about that?
| sbwus wrote: |
| Shahada:Confession of a Muslim |
"I have sex with children ..."
| sbwus wrote: |
| Those who regard Falsehood as True. |
An indepth study on Muslims and their false religion.
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lilith
Joined: 08 Mar 2004
Posts: 821
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| Posted: Sat Nov 06, 2004 8:07 pm Post subject: |
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:-))
seven times..
I've allready been told stories about two angels. Why does one want everybody dead at the end of days anyways? (No Book quotes. Just a personal reply.)Would that be helpfull for humanity as a whole. Say we just established peace and prosperity, and then ...DOOM.
We just arrived at the conclusion that basicly all a muslim should do was believe in the ten commandments. Everything else being , cherries on the cake.
So on whose authority are you posting this?
To me it looks like religious ritual and not part of belief.
The last one realy is close to superstition.
But as far as living sounds go excellent examples.
I forgot a question: why is the prophet living in hell, seeing that he has to receive all the wrongdoers and personally see to them?
And wasn't hell the same as earth?
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Where there is love there is life."
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Abudosama
Joined: 18 Feb 2004
Posts: 1126
Location: Planet Earth
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| Posted: Mon Nov 08, 2004 4:33 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
| We just arrived at the conclusion that basicly all a muslim should do was believe in the ten commandments. Everything else being , cherries on the cake. |
Dear Lilith please post these Ten Commandments.
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I forgot a question: why is the prophet living in hell, seeing that he has to receive all the wrongdoers and personally see to them?
And wasn't hell the same as earth? |
• - Not fact just Iranian's invented story.
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Good Wishes and blessing of their god or no god to non-Muslim (who lack submission and Peace). |
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lilith
Joined: 08 Mar 2004
Posts: 821
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| Posted: Mon Nov 08, 2004 10:41 pm Post subject: |
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How would you know the facts?
I'll look it up.
1. "I am Hashem, your G-d, Who has taken you out of the land of Egypt, from the house of slavery. You shall not recognize the gods of others in My presence." (Shemot 20,2)
2. "You shall not make a carved image nor any likeness of that which is in the heavens above or on the earth below or in the water beneath the earth. You shall not prostrate yourself before them nor worship them, for I am Hashem your G-d - a jealous G-d, Who visits the sin of fathers on children to the third and fourth generations, for My enemies; but Who shows kindness for thousands [of generations] to those who love Me and observe My commandments." (Shemot 20:4-6)
3. "You shall not take the name of Hashem, your G-d, in vain, for Hashem will not absolve anyone who takes His Name in vain." (Shemot 20:7)
4. "Remember the Day of Shabbat to sanctify it. Six days shall you work and accomplish all your work; but the seventh day is Shabbat to Hashem, your G-d; you shall not do any work - you, your son, your daughter, your slave, your maidservant, your animal, and your convert within your gates - for in six days Hashem made the heavens and the earth, the sea and all that is in them, and He rested on the seventh day. Therefore, Hashem blessed the Day of Shabbat and sanctified it." (Shemot 20:8-11)
5. "Honor your father and your mother, so that your days will be lengthened upon the land that Hashem, your G-d, gives you." (Shemot 20:12)
6. "You shall not murder!" (Shemot 20:13)
7. "You shall not commit adultery!" (Shemot 20:13)
8. "You shall not steal!" (Shemot 20:13)(that is kidnapping, money is in the lawbook)
9. "You shall not bear false witness against your fellow!" (Shemot 20:13)
10. "You shall not covet your fellow's house. You shall not covet your fellow's wife, his manservant, his maidservant, his ox, his donkey, nor anything that belongs to your fellow!" (Shemot 20:14)
http://www.ou.org/chagim/shavuot/aseret.htm
with the interpretation.
| Quote: |
Tertullian, an early Christian writer, asserted that the Ten Commandments were engraven on the hearts of men even before being written on the tables of stone. The Ten Commandments had gained a prominent place in the instruction of the early catechumens, and constitute the content of a part of the catechism of the Christian Church today.
In the light of the New Testament teachings, the following pages will present a brief interpretation of the Ten Commandments.
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The First Commandment
"I am the Lord thy God.... Thou shalt have no other gods before me."
"And God spoke all these words, saying, I am the Lord thy God, which have brought thee out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage. Thou shalt have no other gods before me." Ex. 20:1-3.
The Second Commandment
"Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven images... Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them."
"Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth: Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the Lord thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me: And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments." Ex. 20:4-6.
The Third Commandment
"Thou shalt not take the name of the Lord thy God in vain."
"Thou shalt not take the name of the Lord thy God in vain; for the Lord will not hold him guiltless that taketh his name in vain." Ex. 20:7.
The Fourth Commandment
"Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy."
"Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy. Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work: But the seventh day is the sabbath of the Lord thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son nor thy daughter, thy man servant, nor thy maid servant, nor thy cattle. nor thy stranger that is within thy gates: For in six days the Lord made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the Lord blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it." Ex. 20:8-1 1.
The Fifth Commandment
"Honor thy father and thy mother: that thy days may be long."
"Honor thy father and thy mother: that thy days may be long upon the land which the Lord thy God giveth thee." Ex. 20:12.
The Sixth Commandment
"Thou shalt not kill." Ex. 20:13
The Seventh Commandment
"Thou shalt not commit adultery" Ex. 20:14.
The Eighth Commandment
"Thou shalt not steal." Ex. 20:15.
The Ninth Commandment
"Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbor." Ex. 20:16.
The Tenth Commandment
"Thou shalt not covet they neighbor's house."
"Thou shalt not covet thy neighbor's house, thou shalt not covet thy neighbor's wife, not his manservant, not his maidservant, nor his ox, nor his ass, nor any thing that is thy neighbor's." Ex. 20:17.
Abudosama, it's very enlightening to see the differences and the interpretations.
1. “And your Lord has ordained that you should not worship anyone except Him” ( 17:23 )
2. “And shun unclean idols” ( 22:30 )
“When Abraham said, O my Lord,… and save me and my offspring from worshipping idols” ( 14:35 )
“When Abraham said to his father… do you adopt idols as your things of worship? I see you and your tribe in open error” (6:74)
“When (Abraham said to his father and tribe,”What are these images that you sit around? They said, “we found our ancestors worshipping them. (Abraham) said, “Verily, you and your ancestors were in open error” ( 21:52 -54)
“And do not make Allah a target for your oaths for doing good or avoiding evil or reconciling people (2:224)
And We said to them, “Do not violate Sabbath, and We took from them a solemn Covenant” (4:154)
“He created the heavens and the Earth in six days, and then He settled down on the Throne to administer matters”. (10:3)
“Everyday He is busy in a new way” (55:29)
“Neither drowsiness nor sleep overcomes Him…He is not fatigued by taking care of both (Heavens and Earth)”. (2:255)
“And your Lord ordains that you do not worship anyone but only Him, and do good to your parents. If they reach old age before your eyes, any one of them or both, then do not say a word of criticism to them and do not scold them, rather speak kindly to them. And lean your wing of humility towards them and pray, ”O Lord, have mercy on them as they had brought me up since my childhood” ( 17:23 -24)
“And do not kill anybody that Allah has prohibited except when you have a right to kill” (6:151)
“And do not even go near adultery. It is open vice and bad way” ( 17:32 )
“As to the thief (man or woman) let their hands be cut off, a retaliation for what they did, a punishment from Allah. ( 5:38 )
“And They (Servants of God) do not testify falsely.” (25:72)
“And do not covet what Allah has favored some of you over others.( 4:32 )
“And do not stretch your eyes towards what We have provided some of them.” (15:8
http://www.islam101.com/religions/TenCommandments/tcQuran.htm
hold on i'll be back, have to switch sites.
Sura # 17 verses 22-39.according to another site, the ten commandments in more detail
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لاَّ تَجْعَل مَعَ اللّهِ إِلَـهاً آخَرَ فَتَقْعُدَ مَذْمُوماً مَّخْذُولاً
17.22 . Set not up with Allah any other god ( O man ) lest thou sit down reproved , forsaken .
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وَقَضَى رَبُّكَ أَلاَّ تَعْبُدُواْ إِلاَّ إِيَّاهُ وَبِالْوَالِدَيْنِ إِحْسَاناً إِمَّا يَبْلُغَنَّ عِندَكَ الْكِبَرَ أَحَدُهُمَا أَوْ كِلاَهُمَا فَلاَ تَقُل لَّهُمَا أُفٍّ وَلاَ تَنْهَرْهُمَا وَقُل لَّهُمَا قَوْلاً كَرِيماً
17.23 . Thy Lord hath decreed , that ye worship none save Him , and ( that ye show ) kindness to parents . If one of them or both of them to attain old age with thee , say not "Fie" unto them nor repulse them , but speak unto them a gracious word .
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وَاخْفِضْ لَهُمَا جَنَاحَ الذُّلِّ مِنَ الرَّحْمَةِ وَقُل رَّبِّ ارْحَمْهُمَا كَمَا رَبَّيَانِي صَغِيراً
17.24 . And lower unto them the wing of submission through mercy , and say : My Lord! Have mercy on them both as they did care for me when I was little .
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رَّبُّكُمْ أَعْلَمُ بِمَا فِي نُفُوسِكُمْ إِن تَكُونُواْ صَالِحِينَ فَإِنَّهُ كَانَ لِلأَوَّابِينَ غَفُوراً
17.25 . Your Lord is best aware of what is in your minds . If ye are righteous , then lo! He was ever Forgiving unto those who turn ( unto Him ) .
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وَآتِ ذَا الْقُرْبَى حَقَّهُ وَالْمِسْكِينَ وَابْنَ السَّبِيلِ وَلاَ تُبَذِّرْ تَبْذِيراً
17.26 . Give the kinsman his due , and the needy , and the wayfarer , and squander not ( thy wealth ) in wantonness .
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إِنَّ الْمُبَذِّرِينَ كَانُواْ إِخْوَانَ الشَّيَاطِينِ وَكَانَ الشَّيْطَانُ لِرَبِّهِ كَفُوراً
17.27 . Lo! the squanderers were ever brothers of the devils , and the devil was ever an ingrate to his Lord .
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وَإِمَّا تُعْرِضَنَّ عَنْهُمُ ابْتِغَاء رَحْمَةٍ مِّن رَّبِّكَ تَرْجُوهَا فَقُل لَّهُمْ قَوْلاً مَّيْسُوراً
17.28 . But if thou turn away from them , seeking mercy from thy Lord , for which thou hopest , then speak unto them a reasonable word .
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وَلاَ تَجْعَلْ يَدَكَ مَغْلُولَةً إِلَى عُنُقِكَ وَلاَ تَبْسُطْهَا كُلَّ الْبَسْطِ فَتَقْعُدَ مَلُوماً مَّحْسُوراً
17.29 . And let not thy hand be chained to thy neck nor open it with a complete opening , lest thou sit down rebuked , denuded .
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إِنَّ رَبَّكَ يَبْسُطُ الرِّزْقَ لِمَن يَشَاءُ وَيَقْدِرُ إِنَّهُ كَانَ بِعِبَادِهِ خَبِيراً بَصِيراً
17.30 . Lo! thy Lord enlargeth the provision for whom He will , and straiteneth ( it for whom He will ) . Lo , He was ever Knower , Seer of His slaves .
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وَلاَ تَقْتُلُواْ أَوْلادَكُمْ خَشْيَةَ إِمْلاقٍ نَّحْنُ نَرْزُقُهُمْ وَإِيَّاكُم إنَّ قَتْلَهُمْ كَانَ خِطْءاً كَبِيراً
17.31 . Slay not your children , fearing a fall to poverty , We shall provide for them and for you . Lo! the slaying of them is great sin .
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وَلاَ تَقْرَبُواْ الزِّنَى إِنَّهُ كَانَ فَاحِشَةً وَسَاء سَبِيلاً
17.32 . And come not near unto adultery . Lo! it is an abomination and an evil way .
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وَلاَ تَقْتُلُواْ النَّفْسَ الَّتِي حَرَّمَ اللّهُ إِلاَّ بِالحَقِّ وَمَن قُتِلَ مَظْلُوماً فَقَدْ جَعَلْنَا لِوَلِيِّهِ سُلْطَاناً فَلاَ يُسْرِف فِّي الْقَتْلِ إِنَّهُ كَانَ مَنْصُوراً
17.33 . And slay not the life which Allah hath forbidden save with right . Whoso is slain wrongfully , We have given power unto his heir , but let him not commit excess in slaying . Lo! he will be helped .
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وَلاَ تَقْرَبُواْ مَالَ الْيَتِيمِ إِلاَّ بِالَّتِي هِيَ أَحْسَنُ حَتَّى يَبْلُغَ أَشُدَّهُ وَأَوْفُواْ بِالْعَهْدِ إِنَّ الْعَهْدَ كَانَ مَسْؤُولاً
17.34 . Come not near the wealth of the orphan save with that which is better till he come to strength ; and keep the covenant . Lo! of the covenant it will be asked .
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وَأَوْفُوا الْكَيْلَ إِذا كِلْتُمْ وَزِنُواْ بِالقِسْطَاسِ الْمُسْتَقِيمِ ذَلِكَ خَيْرٌ وَأَحْسَنُ تَأْوِيلاً
17.35 . Fill the measure then ye measure , and weigh with a right balance ; that is meet , and better in the end .
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وَلاَ تَقْفُ مَا لَيْسَ لَكَ بِهِ عِلْمٌ إِنَّ السَّمْعَ وَالْبَصَرَ وَالْفُؤَادَ كُلُّ أُولـئِكَ كَانَ عَنْهُ مَسْؤُولاً
17.36 . ( O man ) , follow not that whereof thou hast no knowledge . Lo! the hearing and the sight and the heart of each of these it will be asked .
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وَلاَ تَمْشِ فِي الأَرْضِ مَرَحاً إِنَّكَ لَن تَخْرِقَ الأَرْضَ وَلَن تَبْلُغَ الْجِبَالَ طُولاً
17.37 . And walk not in the earth exultant . Lo! thou canst not rend the earth , nor canst thou stretch to the height of the hills .
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كُلُّ ذَلِكَ كَانَ سَيٍّئُهُ عِنْدَ رَبِّكَ مَكْرُوهاً
17.38 . The evil of all that is hateful in the sight of thy Lord .
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ذَلِكَ مِمَّا أَوْحَى إِلَيْكَ رَبُّكَ مِنَ الْحِكْمَةِ وَلاَ تَجْعَلْ مَعَ اللّهِ إِلَهاً آخَرَ فَتُلْقَى فِي جَهَنَّمَ مَلُوماً مَّدْحُوراً
17.39 . This is ( part ) of that wisdom wherewith thy Lord hath inspired thee ( O Muhammad ) . And set not up with Allah any other god , lest thou be cast into hell , reproved , abandoned .
ISRAEL
that should tell you something.
Notice te differences in interpretation
Mohammed introduced honourkilling. f.i.
_________________
"You must not lose faith in humanity. Humanity is an ocean;
if a few drops of the ocean are dirty, the ocean does not become dirty.
Where there is love there is life."
Mahatma Gandhi |
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Abudosama
Joined: 18 Feb 2004
Posts: 1126
Location: Planet Earth
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| Posted: Tue Nov 09, 2004 10:57 am Post subject: |
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Lilith
| Quote: |
| Mohammed introduced honourkilling. f.i. |
REALLY?
NUMBERS 31 :17-18- So, now kill every boy and kill every woman who has had sexual intercourse, ............... 
| Quote: |
The First Commandment
"I am the Lord thy God.... Thou shalt have no other gods before me." |
Exodus 34:14 Says "You must not prostrate yourself to another god because Jehovah whose name is Jealous is a jealous God
_________________
SALAM-UN-ALAIKUM, to All brothers & Sisters in Islam(submition) and Eemaan(Peace).
Good Wishes and blessing of their god or no god to non-Muslim (who lack submission and Peace). |
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lilith
Joined: 08 Mar 2004
Posts: 821
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| Posted: Wed Nov 10, 2004 1:25 pm Post subject: |
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Any monotheistic deity. that's how it came to be. Allah was afraid of competition...so therefore goes the explanation there is only one god.
funny logic muslims have.
Ah the true meaning of honour killing as in islam society.
That numeri was of the time they presumed they had a case of having a kind of aids/venereal disease running rampant in the community. Male children were allowed to have sex with the sister of the mother. (this means as much as that boys could have sex with certain women but not girl with men. Read up on some antroplogy matriarchal society, but sex of female kids with the brother of the father etc. not.)So to save the tribe that decision would then be taken.
But i am referring to the time of David (have to rely on my memory here. As an atheist i'm struggling  )refused to fight, no more killing and revenge upon revenge, enough is enough, g-d or no g-d.
Since Mohammed called them untrue to G-d and demanded that his followers be not like that in battle for Allah.
I also consider that honour killing since the honour of a group is at stake. Like the sillyness is Fallujah were man are fighting to prove their arab honour instead of rebuilding the country and a strong community.
And we are not fond of takfir people, bloody assassins that kill everybody that does not have the same believe they have. If they continue they kill of all the muslims in the world and then some.
The torah forbids some acts.(numeri is quite rife for jumping to conclusions, since few people know it's the part that deals with punishable acts, the penal code so the say.)
Bit of background:
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A girl must be 12 years old for marriage, but a 3-year old may be betrothed with the father's approval. As for the permissibility of marriage to a minor (katanah) by coition...*Fuggedaboudit!!* as they say in the Mafia. My friend assures me that *humanitarian treatment* is the final authority. If a man did that, that is, had intercourse with a minor for purposes of marriage,it would be considered a crime, even if the father approved. A girl that young would be considered unable to make a momentous decision like that. And even if she were older than 12, if it were done by force, as if she were a Moabite captive, they would be made to divorce once the circumstances were known.
Furthermore, and very importantly, the Jews are *required* to observe the "deen hammalchut"...the laws of the country in which they reside, before applying their own halacha, or laws. So the short answer is, yes, marriage by coition is considered legal, but not with a katanah, and never by force. Betrothal to a katanah is OK, but the bride must reach puberty before actual marriage and consummation. Also, according to my own exceedingly imperfect knowledge, nowhere in the Talmud is betrothal to a minor by intercourse *recommended*. If all this were permissible in the days of the Mishna, well, those days are gone."
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http://www.answering-christianity.com/age3.htm
18 is also the age were one is mentally grown up, unicef norm. And capable of taken full responsibility for all the possible consequences.
So to know in what context things happen and the proper interpretation we would look at the babylonian and the jeruzalem torah.
http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Cyprus/8815/exp.html
Numbers mainly refers to acts of impurity.
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The use of this designation by the prophet is consistent with biblical poetic style. See, for example, Gen. 49:14 where Issachar is denoted a "donkey"; or Gen. 49:17 where Dan is described as a "snake"; or Deut. 33:17 where Joseph is described as a "cow" etc.
The Talmud at Berakoth 58a relates how R. Shila had a Jew punished by flogging for having illicit sexual relations with a non-Jew. The person who was flogged used his influence with local imperial officials and tried to have them execute R. Shila.
These officials asked R. Shila to explain why he had ordered the flogging and he answered that the punishment had been meted out to someone who had had relations with a donkey. The exchange ended with the officials being so impressed with R. Shila that they extended R. Shila's legal powers and granted him the right to impose capital punishment.
The person who had been flogged accused R. Shila of being a liar, to which R. Shila answered by quoting Ezekiel; that is, he claimed that his statement was true on the same metaphorical level as that used by the prophet Ezekiel and therefore did not fall into the category of an outright lie. (In our own day we might find a rough parallel if a preacher were to accuse an errant member of his flock of lusting after animal flesh.)
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gentile woman were refered to as she-asses. But that bugger was the same one that came up with some more controversial interpretations, that's why all interpretations are mentioned.It's like a discussion on law.What if so or so is the case.
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| The first two cases discussed in this agadic statement refer to a father's obligation to find a spouse for his child whose age is suitable to that of the child |
If one is a Levit that means one belongs to the priestclass. (Born in it)
The tables by the way is just another name for laws.
Also see claim 29, 43(meaning of the word DAAS=understanding)45 on the responsibility for the victim,46
http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Cyprus/8815/index.html
For your leisure reading.
But back to the pressing matter of the takfir that seem to want to kill everybody of.
Abudosama could you give me the reasons in the al-kitaab for not killing?
And the sharia on the same?
_________________
"You must not lose faith in humanity. Humanity is an ocean;
if a few drops of the ocean are dirty, the ocean does not become dirty.
Where there is love there is life."
Mahatma Gandhi |
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Abudosama
Joined: 18 Feb 2004
Posts: 1126
Location: Planet Earth
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| Posted: Thu Nov 11, 2004 7:17 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
Any monotheistic deity. that's how it came to be. Allah was afraid of competition...so therefore goes the explanation there is only one god.
funny logic muslims have. |
Dear LilithEvery society which divert from Universal Truths adopt funny logic for convincing their diversion.
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| Ah the true meaning of honour killing as in islam society. |
• - Every society has/had honour killing
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| That numeri was of the time they presumed they had a case of having a kind of aids/venereal disease running rampant in the community. Male children were allowed to have sex with the sister of the mother. (this means as much as that boys could have sex with certain women but not girl with men. Read up on some antroplogy matriarchal society, but sex of female kids with the brother of the father etc. not.)So to save the tribe that decision would then be taken. |
• - So you say that during such calamity of aids/venereal disease running rampant in the community. Male children of biblical society are allowed to have sex with the sister of the mother.
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| But i am referring to the time of David (have to rely on my memory here. As an atheist i'm struggling )refused to fight, no more killing and revenge upon revenge, enough is enough, g-d or no g-d. |
• - David was also an Athiest ?
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| I also consider that honour killing since the honour of a group is at stake. Like the sillyness is Fallujah were man are fighting to prove their arab honour instead of rebuilding the country and a strong community. |
Dear LilithWhat Americans are doing. Are not they saving their honour?
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| And we are not fond of takfir people, bloody assassins that kill everybody that does not have the same believe they have. If they continue they kill of all the muslims in the world and then some. |
• - Americans are bloody BUSHI assassins they are killing every Iraqi that does not have the same believe as BUSH has.
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The torah forbids some acts.(numeri is quite rife for jumping to conclusions, since few people know it's the part that deals with punishable acts, the penal code so the say.)
Bit of background: |
Dear LilithSo you do with the Ayats of Al-Kitaab.
• - You loud against 9 year old what a hypocrecy
http://www.ageofconsent.com/ageofconsent.htm
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| gentile woman were refered to as she-asses. |
• - May be.
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Exodus 20
14 "You shall not commit adultery.
17 "You shall not covet your neighbor's house.
You shall not covet your neighbor's wife, or his manservant or maidservant, his ox or donkey, or anything that belongs to your neighbor." |
• - Well good Jews and Christian by following the Legacy, is allowed to have with his manservant or maidservant, ox or donkey or anything that belongs to him. 
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Abudosama could you give me the reasons in the al-kitaab for not killing?
And the sharia on the same? |
Dear Lilith Al-Kitaab also advocate the Universal law of Killing, as being practice in the world, by American.
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Al-Kitaab C:5: V:45 We ordained therein for them (in Tauraht) :
• - "Life for life,
• - eye for eye,
• - nose or nose,
• - ear for ear,
• - tooth for tooth,
• - and wounds equal for equal."
But if any one remits the retaliation by way of charity, it is an act of atonement for himself.
And if any fail to judge by (the light of) what Allah has revealed, they are wrong-doers. |
_________________
SALAM-UN-ALAIKUM, to All brothers & Sisters in Islam(submition) and Eemaan(Peace).
Good Wishes and blessing of their god or no god to non-Muslim (who lack submission and Peace). |
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lilith
Joined: 08 Mar 2004
Posts: 821
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| Posted: Fri Nov 12, 2004 3:02 am Post subject: |
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• - So you say that during such calamity of aids/venereal disease running rampant in the community. Male children of biblical society are allowed to have sex with the sister of the mother.
Quote:
But i am referring to the time of David (have to rely on my memory here. As an atheist i'm struggling )refused to fight, no more killing and revenge upon revenge, enough is enough, g-d or no g-d.
• - David was also an Athiest ?
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No that is not what it says. It says that everybody, and the tribe om Mohammed even up to the 6th century had a matriarchal society. In those society sexual relationships of boys with females like incest with the sister of the mother were allowed under strict rules. Nobody saw somethinh wrong in that. But the lords of law are having a discussion on when killing, that was never allowed as a general rule, could be necessary. What conditions would their have to be that could make people kill. So they establish that it would only be permitted if the whole community would be at stake if they didn't do it. In that age they did not have medicines. And why they make the statement like that is because they are aware of the matriarchal society structure.
I stated that I am an atheist so I'm not from childhood on indoctrinated with bibletexst. No David was a wise men that understood that revenge upon revenge could only lead to eternal misery.So not even G-d urging him on would convince him otherwise. A humanitarian.
Irak. I suppose you never talked to one of the survivors of the Iran/Iraq war and the missery childsoldiers went through in the name of jihad.
Lots more died in the UN era where corrupt Sadam kept food away from his people.
Now many more Iraqis are dying from the Tafkir and criminals then from Americans. But i suppose your information comes filtered and colored so you still think old Sadam suni and al zarkawi are freedomfighters that defend the arab honour.
Well 23 million Iraqi will tell you otherwise. They are just the old butchers of Sadam and the dogtroops of his son mixed with takfir that as we well know will kill all muslims because they believe only their faith is right.So destruction is their only goal and Americans have nothing whatsoever to do with it, since even in countries were there are no americans they kill off the muslimpopulation.
Nobody believes that story anymore about resistance. They are just mainly foreign terrorists that everybody suffers from.
An anyway you have little faith in the political proces line that states that after the new elections they leave.
Unless invited to stay. And with the rate iraqi policemen are killed they might have to.
So you are not supporting iraq, but the guys that are breaking the society down there. But arab media has been and still is biassed.
Bush is an idiot no conquest there.And christian fascism just as loudible as islam fascism.And hey some of those christians also believe the end of days is in 2012.
Takfir
2012 the end of days and they as the angels leading the righteous on.
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14 "You shall not commit adultery.
17 "You shall not covet your neighbor's house.
You shall not covet your neighbor's wife, or his manservant or maidservant, his ox or donkey, or anything that belongs to your neighbor." |
Read the explanation again.This is meant agains jealousy and envy because that makes the soul unpure.
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Al-Kitaab C:5: V:45 We ordained therein for them (in Tauraht) :
• - "Life for life,
• - eye for eye,
• - nose or nose,
• - ear for ear,
• - tooth for tooth,
• - and wounds equal for equal."
But if any one remits the retaliation by way of charity, it is an act of atonement for himself.
And if any fail to judge by (the light of) what Allah has revealed, they are wrong-doers. |
Now read again what jewish law says on that(christians understood it wrong and a lot of islam faith comes from christianity)
They take this to mean that the justice dispensed should be in relation to the misdeed. Not the same misdeed done on the perpetrator. Since the torah forbids maiming or killing. Those are the groundlaws. Like a constitution, that any other law has to be judged by and can not go against. So making up for it is recommended. As it also states properly.
And if I understand the last one proper this means that judgement is left to Allah, but also that acts should not be excused or not prosecuted, because people did not know it was wrong or that it was written.
To me it seems that you are taking this statement more warlike, then was originaly from it's use in penal code intented.
The law of hamurabi recommended chopping of a hand if the person was a surgeon that had caused by means of operating on a person, grieve damage to this person, to make sure that the surgeon could never operate again. This is a law that goes back to 1792 to 1750 BC(about 3754 years ago)From babylon the jewish took a lot of these laws, and so they ended up in the bible and the al-kitaab. But humanitarian and proportional viewpoints should prevail.Having ones hand cut of for thieving a bike is sillyness and nowhere in proportion to the crime.
Nor is revenge the intention of the quraan. Doesn't it say that one should better the persons way and that any punishment should solely be met out for that purpose?
From the time of 451 and 450 BC the twelve table law prevailed around the meditaranian as it was put in writing then because the simple folk thought the emperors were making it up as the went along and wanted to put their rights in lawbooks(codex). Those are called the laws of the twelve tables. And the romans developed a whole philosophical system around it.And as times and conditions did so did laws develop.
As it does everywhere.
http://www.wordiq.com/definition/Code_of_Hammurabi
Just as men are asses.
http://xoomer.virgilio.it/bxpoma/akkadeng/top20.htm
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Hammurabi's Code Mosaic Law
Death penalty for theft of church or state property, or for receiving stolen goods.(Sect. 6) Thief punished by making compensation to victim. (Ex. 22:1-9) Death for helping a slave to escape or harboring a fugitive slave. (Sect. 15, 16) "You must not hand over a slave to his master when he escapes from his master to you." (Deut. 23:15) If a poorly built house causes the death of a son of the owner of the house, then the son of the builder is put to death. (Sect. 230) "Fathers should not be put to death on account of children, and children should not be put to death on account of fathers." (Deut. 24:16) Mere banishment for incest: "If a seignior [man of rank] has had intercourse with his daughter, they shall make that seignior leave the city." (Sect. 154) Death penalty for incest.(Lev. 18:6, 29)
Class distinctions in judgment: Severe penalties for persons who harm others of a higher class. Mild penalties for harming members of a lower class. (Sect. 196-205) You must not treat the lowly with partiality, and you must not prefer the person of a great one.(Lev. 19:15) |
http://www.wsu.edu/~dee/MESO/CODE.HTM
for the ful text in english translation
_________________
"You must not lose faith in humanity. Humanity is an ocean;
if a few drops of the ocean are dirty, the ocean does not become dirty.
Where there is love there is life."
Mahatma Gandhi |
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Abudosama
Joined: 18 Feb 2004
Posts: 1126
Location: Planet Earth
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| Posted: Fri Nov 12, 2004 9:32 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
| No that is not what it says. It says that everybody, and the tribe om Mohammed even up to the 6th century had a matriarchal society. In those society sexual relationships of boys with females like incest with the sister of the mother were allowed under strict rules. Nobody saw somethinh wrong in that. |
Dear Lilith In a matter matriarchal society only exist where polyandry was by permitted, this was only rooted from Greek dynasties (Arian race). Where women of ruling class keep many husband. Well in Arabs it was not the case since they believe in polygyny.
• - Incest could not be prevailed in such society where in Haram many women are kept so the male child are kept separate from female because of involvement with step relations, and not real one. In western society incest is prevailing since long that’s why moses or Christ have to invent the law.
| Quote: |
| But the lords of law are having a discussion on when killing, that was never allowed as a general rule, could be necessary. What conditions would their have to be that could make people kill. So they establish that it would only be permitted if the whole community would be at stake if they didn't do it. In that age they did not have medicines. And why they make the statement like that is because they are aware of the matriarchal society structure. |
• - No read Talmud in which all such relations ends up with killing.
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| I stated that I am an atheist so I'm not from childhood on indoctrinated with bibletexst. No David was a wise men that understood that revenge upon revenge could only lead to eternal misery.So not even G-d urging him on would convince him otherwise. A humanitarian. |
• - Well if you are an atheist then why do you protect Christianity, don’t you thik it is a hypocrisy.
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Irak. I suppose you never talked to one of the survivors of the Iran/Iraq war and the missery childsoldiers went through in the name of jihad.
Lots more died in the UN era where corrupt Sadam kept food away from his people.
Now many more Iraqis are dying from the Tafkir and criminals then from Americans. But i suppose your information comes filtered and colored so you still think old Sadam suni and al zarkawi are freedomfighters that defend the arab honour. |
• - Well History will prove like Vietnam that who was wrong? Sadam is an old story all allegations about him are negated by western media. Freedom fighter of Iraq are fighting for their freedm, if they win American loose, If American could not bring peace then American loose. Russia did blunder to invade Afghanistan, so did American by invading Iraq. Lets wait and see.
• - Tito and degaulle were traitor, terrorists to French and Yugoslavia govt at that time but they were freedom fighter to French and Yugoslavia nation.
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Well 23 million Iraqi will tell you otherwise. They are just the old butchers of Sadam and the dogtroops of his son mixed with takfir that as we well know will kill all muslims because they believe only their faith is right.So destruction is their only goal and Americans have nothing whatsoever to do with it, since even in countries were there are no americans they kill off the muslimpopulation.
Nobody believes that story anymore about resistance. They are just mainly foreign terrorists that everybody suffers from. |
• - Wait and see why to raise you blood pressure for nothing.
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An anyway you have little faith in the political proces line that states that after the new elections they leave.
Unless invited to stay. And with the rate iraqi policemen are killed they might have to.
So you are not supporting iraq, but the guys that are breaking the society down there. But arab media has been and still is biassed. |
• - Who Americans no my dear why they should leave gold egg laying hen? Well I will support Iraqi people and not invaders. If Iraqi were so fed up from Sadam, then why should’nt be peace after him?
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Bush is an idiot no conquest there. And christian fascism just as loudible as islam fascism. And hey some of those christians also believe the end of days is in 2012.
Takfir
2012 the end of days and they as the angels leading the righteous on. |
• - No ush but complete American Cabinet and Media, which are making fool out of public by giving misleading informations.
| Quote: |
| Quote: |
14 "You shall not commit adultery.
17 "You shall not covet your neighbor's house.
You shall not covet your neighbor's wife, or his manservant or maidservant, his ox or donkey, or anything that belongs to your neighbor." |
Read the explanation again. This is meant agains jealousy and envy because that makes the soul unpure. |
• - Well Cristian Legacy to covet their neighbor's house, neighbor's wife, his manservant or maidservant, his ox or donkey, or anything that belongs to your neighbor. So it is out of jealousy? Or out of animal behaviour,
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| Now read again what jewish law says on that(christians understood it wrong and a lot of islam faith comes from christianity) |
• - Jewish and Christian laws are an outcome of Islam. Must be sounding strange to you ! Since Islam (submission to Allah/God) is right from day One.
| Quote: |
| Quote: |
Al-Kitaab C:5: V:45 We ordained therein for them (in Tauraht) :
• - "Life for life,
• - eye for eye,
• - nose or nose,
• - ear for ear,
• - tooth for tooth,
• - and wounds equal for equal."
But if any one remits the retaliation by way of charity, it is an act of atonement for himself.
And if any fail to judge by (the light of) what Allah has revealed, they are wrong-doers. |
And if I understand the last one proper this means that judgement is left to Allah, but also that acts should not be excused or not prosecuted, because people did not know it was wrong or that it was written. |
• - Well if some one has committed any of the abovementioned crime and if he accept it by remitting charity for its crime to affected family or govt. whatever law say. Then he should not be prosecuted This is Allah’s law.
| Quote: |
| To me it seems that you are taking this statement more warlike, then was originaly from it's use in penal code intented. |
• - Wel it is penal code and must be followed like that.
| Quote: |
The law of hamurabi recommended chopping of a hand if the person was a surgeon that had caused by means of operating on a person, grieve damage to this person, to make sure that the surgeon could never operate again. This is a law that goes back to 1792 to 1750 BC(about 3754 years ago)From babylon the jewish took a lot of these laws, and so they ended up in the bible and the al-kitaab. But humanitarian and proportional viewpoints should prevail. Having ones hand cut of for thieving a bike is sillyness and nowhere in proportion to the crime.
Nor is revenge the intention of the quraan. Doesn't it say that one should better the persons way and that any punishment should solely be met out for that purpose? |
• - Well I do agree that the punishment must be equal to crime, If law is eye for eye, then why hand for theft be cut and for even 100 bugs. Well the Ayat say :
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| (Al-Kitaab- Ch:5 V:38 ) :As to the thief, Male or female, cut off his or her hands: a punishment by way of example, from Allah, for their crime: and Allah is Exalted in power. |
• - Well also read this ayat:
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| (Al-Kitaab- Ch:12 V:79). He (Yousaf) said: Allah protect us that we should seize other than him with whom we found our property, for then most surely we would be unjust. |
• - In Saudi Arabia for first incident the thieve is imprisoned and for consecutive incidents thieve is punished. And for cutting hand there is limit of amount, against which cutting of hand is ordered.
_________________
SALAM-UN-ALAIKUM, to All brothers & Sisters in Islam(submition) and Eemaan(Peace).
Good Wishes and blessing of their god or no god to non-Muslim (who lack submission and Peace). |
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Abudosama
Joined: 18 Feb 2004
Posts: 1126
Location: Planet Earth
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| Posted: Sun Nov 14, 2004 5:50 pm Post subject: |
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EID MUBBARICK TO ALL PEACE MAKERS.
_________________
SALAM-UN-ALAIKUM, to All brothers & Sisters in Islam(submition) and Eemaan(Peace).
Good Wishes and blessing of their god or no god to non-Muslim (who lack submission and Peace). |
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sbwus
Joined: 16 Sep 2004
Posts: 1061
Location: USA
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| Posted: Mon Nov 15, 2004 8:58 pm Post subject: Putting Anti-Islaam forces out of business: |
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Putting Anti-Islaam forces out of business: Who is quoted & who is quoting?
Who is quoted & who is quoting?
http://www.islam-is-the-only-solution.com/quoted.htm
Also updated the article:
What you should know about Tabarî?
http://www.islam-is-the-only-solution.com/tabari.htm
_________________
"An uninformed person cannot conceptualize the essence of knowledge nor its sublimity. One who fails to conceptualize something, its significance will never become rooted in the heart." |
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Abudosama
Joined: 18 Feb 2004
Posts: 1126
Location: Planet Earth
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| Posted: Fri Nov 19, 2004 4:18 pm Post subject: |
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sbwus
| Quote: |
| What you should know about Tabarî? |
This IRANIAN writer have lied on ALLAH and MUHAMMAD Al-RASOOL ALLAH
_________________
SALAM-UN-ALAIKUM, to All brothers & Sisters in Islam(submition) and Eemaan(Peace).
Good Wishes and blessing of their god or no god to non-Muslim (who lack submission and Peace). |
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sbwus
Joined: 16 Sep 2004
Posts: 1061
Location: USA
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| Posted: Fri Nov 19, 2004 5:43 pm Post subject: |
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| Abudosama wrote: |
sbwus
| Quote: |
| What you should know about Tabarî? |
This IRANIAN writer have lied on ALLAH and MUHAMMAD Al-RASOOL ALLAH |
I bet that you have never seen Allamah Tabari's books in your life, let alone reading them, especially his Tasfeer.
ISLAM IS THE ONLY SOLUTION
http://www.islam-is-the-only-solution.com/
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"An uninformed person cannot conceptualize the essence of knowledge nor its sublimity. One who fails to conceptualize something, its significance will never become rooted in the heart." |
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sbwus
Joined: 16 Sep 2004
Posts: 1061
Location: USA
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| Posted: Fri Nov 19, 2004 5:46 pm Post subject: Does the Qur’aan really contain grammatical errors? |
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Does the Qur’aan really contain grammatical errors?
http://www.islam-is-the-only-solution.com/ge.htm
_________________
"An uninformed person cannot conceptualize the essence of knowledge nor its sublimity. One who fails to conceptualize something, its significance will never become rooted in the heart." |
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Abudosama
Joined: 18 Feb 2004
Posts: 1126
Location: Planet Earth
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| Posted: Wed Nov 24, 2004 5:18 pm Post subject: |
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SBWUS
| Quote: |
| Does the Qur’aan really contain grammatical errors? |
| Quote: |
| Al-Kitaab- Ch:4 V:82 Do not they ponder in Al-Quraan( The Reading) ? And if it were from other than Allah, they would have found in it lot of contraditions. |
_________________
SALAM-UN-ALAIKUM, to All brothers & Sisters in Islam(submition) and Eemaan(Peace).
Good Wishes and blessing of their god or no god to non-Muslim (who lack submission and Peace). |
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