Spirituality -A garden of wisdom. Jiddu Krishnamurti

Islamis_Allah_Tashit · Posted: Tue Nov 22, 2005 3:59 pm Post subject:

If you do not behave as I see fit, I will punish myself by giving myself a bad feeling.

I always loved that one.
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The Cat · Joined: 23 Apr 2005 Posts: 4357

DeMello was a Jesuit. It's a wonder the Church didn't excommunicate him, as well as a hope.
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Authority has the same etymological root as authenticity.

Islamis_Allah_Tashit · Posted: Tue Nov 22, 2005 7:36 pm Post subject:

I posted this link before, don't know if you read it, but it says it all
http://users.bigpond.net.au/manisall/silence.html

This was probably one of his most offensive chapters, but, as that one guy said, what he says is so elliptical that it is hard to say that he is going against Christianity and often, when one says so, they might be missing his larger overlying points. He is very very easily misundertsood because he puts things in such simple language that one often misses the deeper elements of it. I would call him "deceptively simple". For instance, there was the example that fire and water need an intermediary (a pot) for the water to boil. One might say "yeah, so what?" Well, Jesus was claimed as exactly that. An intermediary between us and the Father and people's main complaint about Christianity is that they don't need an intermediary. DeMello commented that he remained in the church because the mother church was his home. However, the guy was also a psychologist which is where he gets some of his insights from about human nature and behavior. I didn't even know he was a priest at first because his words were so deep and yet so honest in that he didn't shy away from anything or sugar coat it. In fact, I didn't even know he was an Indian because he sounded so western. But none of this matters because it doesn't change what he said one iota. And, as he clearly said, if you get something from what he says, you did it, not him, and if you are damaged by what he says, you did it, not him and then he quotes the Arab phrase "the nature of the rain is the same but it makes flowers grow in the gardens and thorns grow in the marsh".
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Somebody get me a hairdryer

Islamis_Allah_Tashit · Posted: Tue Nov 22, 2005 7:52 pm Post subject:

Here's where he tells you that he knows you are probably going to misinterpret him

The Cat · Joined: 23 Apr 2005 Posts: 4357

Krishnamurti, Ojaj 1944, talk 3.
Conformity leads to mediocrity. To be different from the group or to resist environment is not easy and is often risky as long as we worship success. The urge to be successful, which is the pursuit of reward whether in the material or in the so-called spiritual sphere, the search for inward or outward security, the desire for comfort -this whole process smothers discontent, puts an end to spontaneity and breeds fear; and fear blocks the intelligent understanding of life.
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Authority has the same etymological root as authenticity.

The Cat · Joined: 23 Apr 2005 Posts: 4357

To meditate, from the latin -1495- 'meditari' meaning to exerce oneself.

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Authority has the same etymological root as authenticity.

Islamis_Allah_Tashit · Posted: Tue Nov 22, 2005 8:40 pm Post subject:

Thanks Cat. But aren't you still admiring these people to an extent? Believe it or not, I do not really admire DeMello nor Krishnamurti nor do I consider them to be any sort of prophet. I only quote DeMello because he's better at putting it into words than I am. He himself tells you flat out not to follow him, which is when I realized the integrity that this guy had. Same thing with Krishnamurti disbanding the Order of the Star. These are people of integrity.

Islamis_Allah_Tashit · Posted: Tue Nov 22, 2005 8:56 pm Post subject:

Here's another one you might like

The Cat · Joined: 23 Apr 2005 Posts: 4357

Hi...I_A_T, you asked: ''Aren't you still admiring those persons to an extent?''
Yes, but only in the childish sense of marveling...

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Authority has the same etymological root as authenticity.

The Cat · Joined: 23 Apr 2005 Posts: 4357

One passage in what DeMello wrote, recently struck me. It is about the differenciation he makes between ''Faith'' and ''belief'', which I hold to be near synonymous. It's not so, according to his views:

''Jesus proclaimed the good news, yet he was rejected. Not because it was good, but because it was new. (...) We don't want new things, particularly if it involves saying ''I was wrong''. (...) God , to listen to that! it's like looking at one of the wonders of the world. That, ladies and gentlemen, is faith! An openness to the truth, no matter what the consequences, no matter where it leads you and when you don't even know where it's going to lead you. That's faith. Not belief, but faith. Your beliefs give you a lot of security, but faith is insecurity. You don't know.''

From now on, at least, I shall be more AWARE of the difference and stop using Belief and Faith as synonymous.It's like faith in spirituality but absolutly no belief in it. Understood, Mr DeMello.
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Authority has the same etymological root as authenticity.

plata moya · Posted: Sat Nov 26, 2005 9:45 am Post subject:

The Core of the Teachings
Jiddu Krishnamurti
The following statement was written by Krishnamurti himself on October 21, 1980 in which he summarizes the teachings. It may be copied and used provided this is done in its entirety. No editing or change of any kind is permitted. No extracts may be used.
"The core of Krishnamurti's teaching is contained in the statement he made in 1929 when he said: 'Truth is a pathless land'. Man cannot come to it through any organization, through any creed, through any dogma, priest or ritual, not through any philosophic knowledge or psychological technique. He has to find it through the mirror of relationship, through the understanding of the contents of his own mind, through observation and not through intellectual analysis or introspective dissection. Man has built in himself images as a fence of security - religious, political, personal. These manifest as symbols, ideas, beliefs. The burden of these images dominates man's thinking, his relationships and his daily life. These images are the causes of our problems for they divide man from man. His perception of life is shaped by the concepts already established in his mind. The content of his consciousness is his entire existence. This content is common to all humanity. The individuality is the name, the form and superficial culture he acquires from tradition and environment. The uniqueness of man does not lie in the superficial but in complete freedom from the content of his consciousness, which is common to all mankind. So he is not an individual.
Freedom is not a reaction; freedom is not a choice. It is man's pretence that because he has choice he is free. Freedom is pure observation without direction, without fear of punishment and reward. Freedom is without motive; freedom is not at the end of the evolution of man but lies in the first step of his existence. In observation one begins to discover the lack of freedom. Freedom is found in the choiceless awareness of our daily existence and activity. Thought is time. Thought is born of experience and knowledge which are inseparable from time and the past. Time is the psychological enemy of man. Our action is based on knowledge and therefore time, so man is always a slave to the past. Thought is ever-limited and so we live in constant conflict and struggle. There is no psychological evolution.
When man becomes aware of the movement of his own thoughts he will see the division between the thinker and thought, the observer and the observed, the experiencer and the experience. He will discover that this division is an illusion. Then only is there pure observation which is insight without any shadow of the past or of time. This timeless insight brings about a deep radical mutation in the mind.
Total negation is the essence of the positive. When there is negation of all those things that thought has brought about psychologically, only then is there love, which is compassion and intelligence."
©1993 The Krishnamurti Foundation Trust Ltd,
Brockwood Park, Bramdean, Hampshire, England. Jiddu Krishnamurti Links Lost? Sitemap Katinka Hesselink Net
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And Moses said unto them, Have ye saved all the women alive? ... Now kill every male among the little ones, and kill every woman that hath known man by lying with him. But all the women children, that have not known a man, keep alive for yourselves.

Islamis_Allah_Tashit · Posted: Sat Nov 26, 2005 4:24 pm Post subject:

Islamis_Allah_Tashit · Posted: Sat Nov 26, 2005 4:36 pm Post subject:

The Cat · Joined: 23 Apr 2005 Posts: 4357

NOVEMBER'S THOUGHTS (2).

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Authority has the same etymological root as authenticity.

The Cat · Joined: 23 Apr 2005 Posts: 4357

November's thoughts (3).
ON DEATH. Krishnamurti.
--To find out what living is as well as to find out what dying is, one must come into contact with death; that is, one must end every day everything one has known. One must end the image that one has built up upon oneself, about one's family, about one's relationship, the image that one has built through pleasure, through one's relationship to society, everything. That is what is going to take place when death occurs. (...)

Do you know what it means to come into contact with death, to die without argument? Because death, when it comes, does not argue with you. To meet it, you have to die every day to everything: to your agony, to your loneliness, to the relationship you cling to; you have to die to your thought, to die to your habit, to die to your wife so that you can look at your wife anew; (...)

But you cannot meet death if you don't die every day. It is only when you die that there is love. A mind frightened has no love -it has habits, it has sympathy, it can force itself to be kind and superficially considerate. But fear breeds sorrow, and sorrow is time as thought. (...) So one has to live every day dying -dying because you are then in contact with life. Surely, in ending there is renewal, is there not? It's only in death that a new thing comes into being. (...)

Reality is the unknown. Death is also the unknown. But to call death beautiful, to say how marvelous it is because we shall continue in the hereafter and all that nonsense, has no reality. What has reality is seeing death as it is -an ending; an ending in which there is renewal, a rebirth, not a continuity. For that which continues decays; and that which has the power to renew itself is eternal.
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Authority has the same etymological root as authenticity.