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annata
Joined: 12 Aug 2005
Posts: 803
Location: Emptiness
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 Posted: Thu Oct 20, 2005 12:36 pm Post subject: |
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OK, I accepted your invitation Cat. I need some time to digest some of Krisnamurthi "Truths". Perusing through some of them, I admit that it has some positive effects on me. I think he is really another enlightened person, a very wise one.
Nobody listened to Him, that is why there is Buddhism. -- J .Krishnamurti: 3rd Seminar Madras 16 Jan 1981
I like this, it is very impactful, sometimes, even I am attached to the notion that I am a Buddhist. This is an attachment, a condition to think that you are part of something, for the truth is unbias, unattached, unchanging.
Thanks for sharing this Cat, I will be back when I learn more of it.
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They come, they see, they terrorise.- This is Islam. |
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The Cat
Joined: 23 Apr 2005
Posts: 4357
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| Posted: Sat Oct 22, 2005 2:45 pm Post subject: |
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Siddharta Buddha:
''Believe nothing just because a so-called wise person said it; just because a belief is generally held, because it is said in ancient books, said to be of divine origin. Believe nothing just because someone else believes it. Believe only what you yourself test and judge to be true.
James Madison (4th US president, between 1809-1817):
--Conscience is the most sacred of all property.
Norman Cousin:
--Death is not the greatest lost in live, it is what dies inside of us while we live.
Chamfort:
--Happiness is not easily won; it is hard to find in ourselves, and impossible to find it elsewhere.
_________________
Authority has the same etymological root as authenticity.
Last edited by The Cat on Sun Jun 25, 2006 4:32 am; edited 2 times in total |
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The Cat
Joined: 23 Apr 2005
Posts: 4357
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| Posted: Tue Oct 25, 2005 9:31 pm Post subject: |
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From Krishnaji...
''The fact is the reaction which we call ''envy''. That is the fact. But the non-fact is ''I should not be envious''. Right?... The fact of this reaction which we call 'envy' is what is happening, but the mind has projected the concept that one should not be, which is unreal. So you are struggling to move from the fact into non-fact...''
3rd of 7 public talks in Saanen, 1979.
_________________
Authority has the same etymological root as authenticity.
Last edited by The Cat on Sun Jun 25, 2006 4:44 am; edited 3 times in total |
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plata moya
Joined: 24 May 2005
Posts: 2741
Location: Muhammad stoned a she monkey for adultery.
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| Posted: Tue Oct 25, 2005 11:00 pm Post subject: |
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| The Cat wrote: |
From Krishnaji...
''The fact is the reaction which we call ''envy''. That is the fact. But the non-fact is ''I should not be envious''. Right?... The fact of this reaction which is call ''envy'' is what is happening, but the mind has projected the concept that one should not be, which is unreal. So you are struggling to move from the fact into non-fact...''
3rg of 7 public talk in Saanen, 1979. |
Ya Cat there is no suffering like other peoples happiness, I used to envy untill I saw what a goofy tortured world we live in. Infested with meddlesome religions, parents and governments. Ambitious for no other reason than we're supposed to. Diving by constant cravings, fears, lied to by god and family, who could envy after spending a week on this planet.
_________________
And Moses said unto them, Have ye saved all the women alive? ... Now kill every male among the little ones, and kill every woman that hath known man by lying with him. But all the women children, that have not known a man, keep alive for yourselves. |
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annata
Joined: 12 Aug 2005
Posts: 803
Location: Emptiness
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| Posted: Wed Oct 26, 2005 10:06 pm Post subject: |
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plata moya,
Plata, coming to think of it, you are not such a BAD ASS guy after all. 
_________________
They come, they see, they terrorise.- This is Islam. |
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plata moya
Joined: 24 May 2005
Posts: 2741
Location: Muhammad stoned a she monkey for adultery.
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| Posted: Wed Oct 26, 2005 11:19 pm Post subject: |
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| annata wrote: |
plata moya,
Plata, coming to think of it, you are not such a BAD ASS guy after all. |
annata A he/she Buddhist bonobo priest,
Is trying to ruin my image at FFI, lets see who's smarter this priest or jk on images---
is important to understand, not intellectually but actually in your daily life, how you have built images about your wife, your husband, your neighbor, your child, your country, your leaders, your politicians, your gods--you have nothing but images.
The images create the space between you and what you observe and in that space there is conflict, so what we are going to find out now together is whether it is possible to be free of the space we create, not only outside ourselves but in ourselves, the space which divides people in all their relationships.
Now the very attention you give to a problem is the energy that solves that problem. When you give your complete attention--I mean with everything in you--there is no observer at all. There is only the state of attention which is total energy, and that total energy is the highest form of intelligence. Naturally that state of mind must be completely silent and that silence, that stillness, comes when there is total attention, not disciplined stillness. That total silence in which there is neither the observer nor the thing observed is the highest form of a religious mind. But what takes place in that state cannot be put into words because what is said in words is not the fact. To find out for yourself you have to go through it.
-- J. Krishnamurti, Freedom from the Known, pp. 92-93
_________________
And Moses said unto them, Have ye saved all the women alive? ... Now kill every male among the little ones, and kill every woman that hath known man by lying with him. But all the women children, that have not known a man, keep alive for yourselves. |
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annata
Joined: 12 Aug 2005
Posts: 803
Location: Emptiness
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| Posted: Thu Oct 27, 2005 9:06 pm Post subject: |
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| plata moya wrote: |
annata A he/she Buddhist bonobo priest,
Is trying to ruin my image at FFI, lets see who's smarter this priest or jk on images--- |
I had shattered my preconception on you, for I see the real you. I do not want to be smart, but to observe the truth.
| Code: |
| We shall know that state of love only when jealousy, envy, possessiveness, domination, come to an end; and as long as we possess, we shall never love. |
-Krishnamurti's Talks 1949-1950 (Verbatim Report) ... India p.97
Sensation & desire, which is which???? At least now, I know where to look, damn it is so hard.
| Code: |
What is the origin, the source, of desire? Go into it very very deeply to capture the whole movement of desire, the implication of it, the depth of it, the reality of it. If you had no senses, there will be no sensation. Sensation arises when you see something in the window of a shop, a shirt, a radio, or what you will. You see it - visual perception. Then you go inside that shop, touch the material, and from the touching of it, there is a sensation. This is very simple. You see the car, you touch it, you look at the lights, the polish - not the beauty of Indian cars, but some of the European cars are extraordinarily beautiful. Like an aeroplane, it is extraordinarily beautiful - and you touch it, you touch that shirt you see in the window, blue shirt, and by the very touch there is sensation. Then what happens? Then, if you observe very closely, thought says, `How nice it would be if I had that shirt on me, if I stepped into that car.' So, at that moment when thought creates the image out of the sensation, is the origin of desire.
You see a beautiful tree, which man has not created. Man has created the cathedral, the mosque, the temple, and all the things therein; but he has not created the tree. He has not created nature, but man is destroying nature. Now, you look at a beautiful tree. You wish it were in your garden. And you see it. There is the sensation of the dignity, the shadows, the light on the leaf, the movement of the tree. Then sensation arises. And then thought says, `How nice it would be if I had that tree in my garden. When thought creates the image of that tree in your garden, at that second desire is born. Right? The fact is, it is natural to be sensitive, to have sensations. Otherwise you are paralysed. You must have sensation, you must have sensitivity in your fingers, in your eyes, in your hearing and looking, and you are sensitive to watch, to look - out of that looking, watching, observing, sensation inevitably arises. It must arise; otherwise you are blind, deaf. When there is sensation, then thought creates an image, and at that moment desire is born. Have you found it to be so? Or are you going to repeat just what the speaker has said or go back to your tradition and say we must suppress desire or say what you are talking is nonsense? If you really go into this question of desire, which is so important in life, then you will find out for yourself the origin, the beginning, of desire. Now, the question is to look at a car, at the shirt, at a woman, at a picture; there is arising of sensation. Find out whether thought can be in abeyance, not immediately create a picture, an image of you in that shirt, or in that car, and so on. Can there be a gap between sensation and thought impinging upon that sensation? Find out. It will make your mind, brain, alert, watchful. |
- J. Krishnamurti Mind without Measure 2nd Public Talk Calcutta
_________________
They come, they see, they terrorise.- This is Islam. |
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Bolding Hansen
Joined: 03 Apr 2005
Posts: 3061
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| Posted: Thu Oct 27, 2005 10:39 pm Post subject: |
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The goal of life is the experience of life itself, and here all people and all other living beings are in reality of equal value.
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www.martinus.dk
Samadhi, unio mystica, nirvana, sunyata, the words may differ, but the realities behind life, both physical and spiritual, are as they are.
To stop craving and empty your mind, to enquire and concentrate, to surrender yourself to god, these are all different paths, to the same center.
I have yearned for the perfect explanation, I never found any, it trancends words and thoughts, and in thoughts and words I was looking.
What I found, however, in my love of brevity and accuracy, I tried to narrow down, to the content of a few poems, of which this is one:
Holosophy
It would be meaningless
If an object
Was not in relation to a subject
If an experience
Was not in contrast to another,
In the split reality
The experience gains sense.
It would be meaningless
To consider the seperate parts
Of the universe
As more seperate than the organs in our body
To consider life as limited
As beginning
Culmination and end.
It would be meaningless
If everything was inertia
And ever remained the same
As well as consider the ways of the local moment
As the everlasting unchangeable reality
If eternity was not in relation to perishableness
And perishableness not in relation to eternity.
Above poem is ofcourse written in my native language, and I dont find my translation flawless or without some difficulties.
But summa summarum is that this will certainly NOT be my last poem on the subject ssince generally I want to touch this deeper, better, shorter and more striking.
I could also elaborate some on vidé´s (vital ideas) of this poem suffering from both age and translation, but I will not because i am actually curious as to what it sets moving.
_________________
I am from the beginning, knowing no end, no aim, no sun illumines me, for I dissolve all lesser lights in my own intenser and steadier light. - H. D. Thoreau
Last edited by Bolding Hansen on Fri Oct 28, 2005 12:06 am; edited 1 time in total |
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The Cat
Joined: 23 Apr 2005
Posts: 4357
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| Posted: Thu Oct 27, 2005 11:55 pm Post subject: |
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Welcome in, BH.
Great poem, that I'll come back to read again and again. We'd need some more like that in here, poetry being somehow the ''language of the gods'' because it can expresses things that prose cannot reach, like the infinite in all of us.
May I take this occasion to reiterate my invitation to poems, quotations or reflexions on the subject of spirituality and wisdom. This garden is everybody's... Don't shy away!
_________________
Authority has the same etymological root as authenticity.
Last edited by The Cat on Sun Jun 25, 2006 4:53 am; edited 3 times in total |
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IHSoter
Joined: 23 Mar 2004
Posts: 4757
Location: Cornfields-everywhere, Ohio (the poisonous nut state), Walt Disneys Hjemland
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| Posted: Fri Oct 28, 2005 1:20 am Post subject: |
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| The Cat wrote: |
Welcome in, BH.
Great poem, that i'll come back to read again and again.
We'd need some more like that in here, poetry being somehow the ''language of the gods'' because it can expresses things that prose cannot reach, like the infinite in all of us.
May I take this occasion to reiterate my invitation to poems, quotations or reflexions on the subject of spirituality and wisdom. This garden is everybody's... Don't shy away! |
See this page here:
http://www.swans.com/library/art8/xxx089.html
The Panther is my fav. I guess or rather Der Panzer but I don't even speak German so maybe this isn't even a legit. choice. ~ I just love the Image of a great beast trapped in a narrow cage turning constantly in circles, rather like a worshipper at the Qa'ba, & only occasionally seeing a brief glimpse of something beyond the bars. ~ This perception going into himself & dying, powerful stuff that. ~ Maybe it is only an emotional predisposition of some people to wonder about questions of what lies behind everything we see. ~ If so then Rilke & me have have such a predisposition to such wondering. ~ I used to wonder about why we perceive reality as we do as a child. ~ I would wonder why the world retains its appearance of solidity as we see it. ~ I recall waking in the morning wondering why the floor remained solid beneath my feat every morning. ~ I'd imagine the floor desolving into nothingness & my tumbling through the white abbys. ~ I saw it white don't ask me why.
I 1st read this poem as a grade schooler as part of our reading anthology. ~ This obviously made an impression then as I still recall it. ~ The second event that fixed the memory of it in my mind is the comment on it that occured in some dumb Woody Allen movie. ~ It was one of his "Lookitme! I'm as great as Bergman" faux serious movies. ~ Allen has his main character; a woman (as if), so he was trying to show himself smart and sensitive; say that she thought the Panther saw (see third stanza) death beyond the cage. ~ How would death enter the panther & die?
Well, Allen was an idiot but as for the poem it is apparently about how we only occasionally have insights into the truth of things. We are all blinded by the narrow reality that surrounds us. ~ Only once in a while will an insight enter into us but we usually can't hold it for very long.
Then again maybe not, but that 's my best guess.
_________________
FIDES ET RATIO:
"We must rid ourselves once and for all of the Quaker-Papist babble about the sanctity of human life." --Leon Trotsky |
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The Cat
Joined: 23 Apr 2005
Posts: 4357
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| Posted: Fri Oct 28, 2005 4:19 am Post subject: |
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Welcome in, IHS...
Thanks for this gift of yours underlying what humility is all about. From the micro to the macro, we are but ''thorn between vanities'', and life such a mystery still to the most scholars among us. Humility is the key to understanding each other and get along through our differences...
_________________
Authority has the same etymological root as authenticity. |
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IHSoter
Joined: 23 Mar 2004
Posts: 4757
Location: Cornfields-everywhere, Ohio (the poisonous nut state), Walt Disneys Hjemland
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| Posted: Fri Oct 28, 2005 7:37 am Post subject: |
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| The Cat wrote: |
Welcome in, IHS...
Thanks for this gift of yours underlying what humility is all about. From the micro to the macro, we are but ''thorn between vanities'', and life such a mystery still to the most scholars among us. Humility is the key to understanding each other and get along through our differences... |
Well, I am a very humble person. ~ I'm, rightly, known for my humility. ~ I have a well earned fame in that area, indeed, I've received awards for my humility & deserved 'em too.
If they gave out Nobel prizes for humility It's a lead pipe cinch that I'd win it.
_________________
FIDES ET RATIO:
"We must rid ourselves once and for all of the Quaker-Papist babble about the sanctity of human life." --Leon Trotsky |
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Bolding Hansen
Joined: 03 Apr 2005
Posts: 3061
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| Posted: Fri Oct 28, 2005 11:40 am Post subject: |
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This was a great poem, never been much of rilke reader either, but what I read always leave a strong impression.
As martinus puts it: "We are like wounded refugees in nomansland between two countries" Not really man, not really beast, trapped and free.
_________________
I am from the beginning, knowing no end, no aim, no sun illumines me, for I dissolve all lesser lights in my own intenser and steadier light. - H. D. Thoreau |
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plata moya
Joined: 24 May 2005
Posts: 2741
Location: Muhammad stoned a she monkey for adultery.
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| Posted: Sat Oct 29, 2005 7:47 am Post subject: |
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annata, so ur getting into jk, lucky you he is very intoxicating remember his golden rule " don't follow me or anyone". So have fun reading jk and call me when u get enlightened 
1957 3rd Public Talk, Colombo
So it is very important to understand not only the conscious, but also the unconscious mind. The unconscious mind is much more powerful, much more insistent much more directive and conservative than the conscious mind; because the conscious is merely the educated mind which adjusts itself to the environment. He is adjusting himself, as you do, to the environment, to the pressure from outside, but inwardly he is the same - that is, the unconscious is still the residue of the past.
jk
_________________
And Moses said unto them, Have ye saved all the women alive? ... Now kill every male among the little ones, and kill every woman that hath known man by lying with him. But all the women children, that have not known a man, keep alive for yourselves. |
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The Cat
Joined: 23 Apr 2005
Posts: 4357
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| Posted: Mon Oct 31, 2005 6:03 am Post subject: |
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Lao Tzu:
''Wisdom has no need of dogmas.''
_________________
Authority has the same etymological root as authenticity.
Last edited by The Cat on Sun Jun 25, 2006 4:54 am; edited 2 times in total |
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