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Trojan Horse
Joined: 19 Mar 2004
Posts: 1488
Location: "Where the Islamic hell freezes over..."
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 Posted: Fri Mar 19, 2004 7:46 am Post subject: |
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| Student1 wrote: |
| .... Christianity, more or less ,had been able to reconcile with its brutal past and move on. |
Sorry to intrude student, by this do you mean the crusades or much earlier of jewish warfare in the OT?
Although the atrocities in medival and modern times, weigh heavy on its shoulders, the Church has been very open and contrite towards its shortfalls.
| Student1 wrote: |
....
Someone did say, "Christianity is a religion whereby God sent His Son to die for you. Islam is a religion whereby God wants you to die for Him (on the battlefield)." |
I think there is a little twist to that quote to give it more of a "redemptive punch".
" In Islam God expects you to send your son to die for Him,
In Christianity, God sends His son to die for You."
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| orangupahan wrote: |
| I'm an advocate of pedophilia. Its legal according to Allah's law, there's nothing wrong with it. |
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Trojan Horse
Joined: 19 Mar 2004
Posts: 1488
Location: "Where the Islamic hell freezes over..."
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| Posted: Fri Mar 19, 2004 8:44 am Post subject: |
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| Abu Naima wrote: |
| .... Think about it. Why should Allah love those who do wrong, sin, fornicate, oppress, disbelieve in Him, and worship other than Him when He made it his right that all things created to worship Him only. To say that Allah loves everyone in all without any restrictions to that love is not only blasphemy, but not even the intellect can possibly understand this concept. There is no such thing a an inrestricted love for anyone. That is like saying that you will love your husband the same way you met and married him even if he slept twith coultless other woman in front of you or caught him in the act, and continously lied to you boldly while you know it. Will you have the same love for him as before. |
Abu Naima, I understand it is hard for you to grasp this, because there is NO concept of unconditional love in the Quran. Allah will love you, ONLY IF...., Allah will reward you, ONLY IF.... Allah always expects something before he decides to give something.
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Love for Enemies
Luke 6:
27"But I tell you who hear me: Love your enemies, do good to those who hate you, 28bless those who curse you, pray for those who mistreat you. 29If someone strikes you on one cheek, turn to him the other also. If someone takes your cloak, do not stop him from taking your tunic. 30Give to everyone who asks you, and if anyone takes what belongs to you, do not demand it back. 31Do to others as you would have them do to you. |
Maybe your Allah should take some tips from the Bible, in order to earn the title of "merciful and benevolent". Read the following:-
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| Luke 6: 32"If you love those who love you, what credit is that to you? Even 'sinners' love those who love them. 33And if you do good to those who are good to you, what credit is that to you? Even 'sinners' do that. 34And if you lend to those from whom you expect repayment, what credit is that to you? Even 'sinners' lend to 'sinners,' expecting to be repaid in full. |
If God has set such high standards for mere humans, do you think He would Himself not surpass these standards?
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Luke 6:
35But love your enemies, do good to them, and lend to them without expecting to get anything back. Then your reward will be great, and you will be sons of the Most High, because he is kind to the ungrateful and wicked. 36Be merciful, just as your Father is merciful. |
The Quran says Allah is merciful and benevolent, can you produce a verse in comparision to the above one from the Bible?
| Abu Naima wrote: |
| .... As Allah says in the Quran "They (nasarah, christians) follow nothing but conjecture." |
"Better speculative love, than divinely instigated hate"
| Abu Naima wrote: |
| .... Do you actually believe we are left alone in our decision on who to worsip him. This would lead to deception and turmoil. Whatever deception and turmoil came out from the Islamic side of humanity then it is the sole reason of the Muslims not following the authentic revelation and guidance. But from the christian side of humanity then the reason is blamed from a doctinal point of view. Do you see the difference. |
Huh? kindly elaborate in english.
P.S: Rainbow 1 Congratulations on breaking the shackles of Islam!
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| orangupahan wrote: |
| I'm an advocate of pedophilia. Its legal according to Allah's law, there's nothing wrong with it. |
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nonick
Joined: 23 Mar 2004
Posts: 329
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| Posted: Tue Mar 23, 2004 6:57 am Post subject: |
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| Please dont paint christianity as this benevolent religion of love..it is not too different from islam (i have read both bible and quoran) I am happy that you are happy..but nothing irritates me more than christians who demonize islam but dont apply the same standards to their own religions... |
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Guest
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| Posted: Tue Mar 23, 2004 7:59 pm Post subject: |
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Abu Naima
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| The propeht (saws) said "The burden of proof is upon the claiment". |
The Prophet claimed to be a messenger of God. Where is that proof? The burden of proof is upon Mohammed now.
Adnan (former muslim, now agnostic) |
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rainbow1
Joined: 12 Mar 2004
Posts: 41
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| Posted: Wed Mar 24, 2004 3:26 am Post subject: |
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Dear Nonick,
I once thought the same thing.
Go to the 'is christianity in the same boat as islam?' section of the forum. Read everything there and then present your defence of this claim using examples and references. I will be happy to debate with you there, time permitting - I may not be able to respond straight away, or someone else might respond ....
Rainbow. |
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faith
Joined: 18 Apr 2004
Posts: 8
Location: south wales, uk
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| Posted: Sun Apr 18, 2004 9:53 pm Post subject: Re: my testimony - married to a muslim and converted |
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| rainbow1 wrote: |
Every time I went to pick up the Koran to read he would stop me and say I wasn't dressed right or wasn't clean enough etc. I became more and more afraid of this book - LOL - afraid of BOOK!
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whats wrong with being pure and clean when reading the book of Islam? this is Allah word subhana wa tala to the world, and you think its wrong to be modestly dressed (which is part of islam) to read it? yes you have to do wudu when you read the Qur'an, if you read the english version its acceptable as its not the exact words of the Qur'an but a translation. your husband was right to stop you reading it if he knew you hadn't done wudu or you werent covered, its haram (forbidden) to pick it up without being clean.
i'm so sorry you left Islam, i thought maybe coming on here i'd help you see the truth but only Allah subhana wa tala can guide you back, i pray for you that you will be lead onto the straight path again, ameen
Alhamdulilah |
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Arif Qurashi
Joined: 02 Apr 2004
Posts: 377
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| Posted: Mon Apr 19, 2004 8:58 pm Post subject: Re: my testimony - married to a muslim and converted |
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| faith wrote: |
| whats wrong with being pure and clean when reading the book of Islam? this is Allah word subhana wa tala to the world, and you think its wrong to be modestly dressed (which is part of islam) to read it? yes you have to do wudu when you read the Qur'an, if you read the english version its acceptable as its not the exact words of the Qur'an but a translation. your husband was right to stop you reading it if he knew you hadn't done wudu or you werent covered, its haram (forbidden) to pick it up without being clean. |
You've answered it yourself, "this is Allah word subhana wa tala to the world", if it is Allah's world then he should not care if you are pure and clean when reading the book of Islam. The simple reason is that your Allah created all the purity and the impurity wouldn't you say? Why would the dress you wore be of any significance too? The Allah you talk of should accept any dress one wears before praying after all it all comes under Allah's creation. Also, why would the language it's read in matter as long as the person reading it has good intentions.
Having said that, I think Muslim's should work hard in getting their heads out of wherever they burry them, these things are of absolutely no consequence. They are so trivial that enforcing them you make Islam an already intolerant religion worse. These matters of how one prays, kneeling, standing, hand gestures, looking left and right, bowing down and offering your asses to Allah make an already stupid religion unbearable. Get those heads out of the comfortable warm dark spots you have them in and begin to see the light.
Khutba of Mullah Arif - the good one. |
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faith
Joined: 18 Apr 2004
Posts: 8
Location: south wales, uk
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| Posted: Mon Apr 19, 2004 9:35 pm Post subject: Re: my testimony - married to a muslim and converted |
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| Arif Qurashi wrote: |
You've answered it yourself, "this is Allah word subhana wa tala to the world", if it is Allah's world then he should not care if you are pure and clean when reading the book of Islam. The simple reason is that your Allah created all the purity and the impurity wouldn't you say? |
Allah ta'la has created us to obey him, yes to make us pure, it is satan who makes us impure and leads us onto other paths, the angels must obey Allah ta'la they have no choice, Allah ta'la made the angles bow down to adam, as this was the first human creation, one angel refused and therefore he was punished to the hellfire for eternity (satan) he said to allah ta'la he would lead mankind astray, this therefore making some humans impure.
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| Why would the dress you wore be of any significance too? The Allah you talk of should accept any dress one wears before praying after all it all comes under Allah's creation. |
yes we are Allah ta'las creation but in this world we dont have to obey Allah but we will pay for it in the afterlife. do u you see women and and men in bikins and shorts in churches?? no, they are dressed modestly and are mostly covered, its disrespectful, Islam teaches that women should be covered to earn respect from men (dont say its oppression! if you saw a woman with hotpants on and a skimpy top with high heels, you'd see her as easy and you wouldnt respect what she is wearing, you'd take advantage of her, Islam gives a lot of respect for women, they should not be treated like meat to a dog) so if theyre covered anyway, why should there be a problem being covered while in prayer???
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| Also, why would the language it's read in matter as long as the person reading it has good intentions. |
yes, Allah ta'la sees good intentions but why not bring all muslims together equally around the world and all speaking the one language of the true religion? this doesnt make anyone superior than anyone else as theyre all praying and reciting the Qur'an in the language it was revealed in, if the Qur'an was available in different languages like the bible, words would get changed (as no word is the exact word in another language) and people would be learning different teachings. the arabic language brings all the muslims together. you can make du'aa (your own prayer) in your own language but the obligatory prayers are always said in arabic.
| Quote: |
| Having said that, I think Muslim's should work hard in getting their heads out of wherever they burry them, these things are of absolutely no consequence. They are so trivial that enforcing them you make Islam an already intolerant religion worse. These matters of how one prays, kneeling, standing, hand gestures, looking left and right, bowing down and offering your asses to Allah make an already stupid religion unbearable. Get those heads out of the comfortable warm dark spots you have them in and begin to see the light. |
so how do you pray?? by pointing your hands up to heaven?? why are you so arrogant and ashamed by bowing and prostrating to the almighy superior one who has created you? afterall youre just a piece of clay.
all muslims bowing and prostrating to the kabba united in prayer?? why does that make the religion unbearable?? what light is that then? |
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Iznogoodh
Joined: 14 Feb 2004
Posts: 970
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| Posted: Mon Apr 19, 2004 10:03 pm Post subject: Re: my testimony - married to a muslim and converted |
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| faith wrote: |
do u you see women and and men in bikins and shorts in churches?? no, they are dressed modestly and are mostly covered, its disrespectful, Islam teaches that women should be covered to earn respect from men (dont say its oppression! if you saw a woman with hotpants on and a skimpy top with high heels, you'd see her as easy and you wouldnt respect what she is wearing, you'd take advantage of her, |
It may be difficult to imagine, but there seem to be intermediate forms of dressing for a woman. Though Faith seems to know only two kinds:
1. Islamic
2. Like a whore
I really must ask my female family members what kind of dress they use because I can't remember them dressing as whores, while on the other side they are not exactly islamic (as they are a bit Roman-Catholic, you know....)
Iznogoodh |
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faith
Joined: 18 Apr 2004
Posts: 8
Location: south wales, uk
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| Posted: Mon Apr 19, 2004 10:08 pm Post subject: |
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| i wasnt implying that non muslim women dressed like whores, just that how women dress change your respect for them, i was tlaking about the two opposite kind of dress. |
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Iznogoodh
Joined: 14 Feb 2004
Posts: 970
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| Posted: Mon Apr 19, 2004 10:16 pm Post subject: |
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It never takes long for a Muslim to start talking about bikini's or hot pants, especially when these examples have nothing to do with the subject.
Rainbow said very correctly that a religion that puts so much emphasis on being dressed rightly for prayer is missing the point. I am not religious but I think that one can pray in all kinds of dresses, even nude. It is the intention that counts, not the outward appearance.
She is fit to pray when she feels she is fit to pray. Not when some book says that she is dressed properly.
Iznogoodh |
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faith
Joined: 18 Apr 2004
Posts: 8
Location: south wales, uk
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| Posted: Mon Apr 19, 2004 10:24 pm Post subject: |
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| It never takes long for a Muslim to start talking about bikini's or hot pants, especially when these examples have nothing to do with the subject. |
considering i was talking about dress, this has everything to do with the subject.
so if it wasnt for this one 'fault' you'd accept Islam?
i doubt it very much, you'll find another negative aspect other than dress. |
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syamal
Joined: 18 Feb 2004
Posts: 486
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| Posted: Tue Apr 20, 2004 1:04 am Post subject: |
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Allah ta'la has created us to obey him, yes to make us pure, it is satan who makes us impure and leads us onto other paths, the angels must obey Allah ta'la they have no choice, Allah ta'la made the angles bow down to adam, as this was the first human creation, one angel refused and therefore he was punished to the hellfire for eternity (satan) he said to allah ta'la he would lead mankind astray, this therefore making some humans impure.
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Who is this guy Alla tal'a ? Did he meet you to tell you born out of his wed
lock. It seems he is your dad. I am terribly frightened with your Ah tal'a. |
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Student1
Joined: 14 Mar 2004
Posts: 2825
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| Posted: Tue Apr 20, 2004 11:50 am Post subject: |
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if you saw a woman with hotpants on and a skimpy top with high heels, you'd see her as easy and you wouldnt respect what she is wearing, you'd take advantage of her
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Not true.
While most men would be interested to look at a skimpily dressed woman, not all men would take advantage of them, as Islam teaches.
What a woman dresses, is up to her. Whether a man takes advantage of her, it is up to his level of self-control.
Don't give excuses when you molest women. Molesters are perverts, people who have problems with self-control. Do not pin the blame on others.
Obviously, followers of Islam have very little self-control, when they want to pin the blame of sexual misconduct largely on women.
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so if it wasnt for this one 'fault' you'd accept Islam?
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There are many other reasons why we reject Islam. If you check out the thread under 'Muhammad' for example, you would find other reasons.
In a nutshell, Muhammad was a man who robbed, plundered, murdered his critics, enslaved others for personal profit. Not to mention that he was also a child-molester.
And Allah did not see anything wrong with Muhammad's behaviour. Neither do most Muslims. Either that, or they give the most ridiculous reasons to support murder, child-molest, slavery, warfare, forced conversion to Islam, etc etc.
Even in my society, the largest group of ppl who need social welfare and government financial aid are Muslims, followers of Allah. Same for the largest group of ppl in poverty, illiteracy and female oppression. You wanna talk about terrorism too?
Kinda tells us kafirs what to expect, should we follow Allah. |
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faith
Joined: 18 Apr 2004
Posts: 8
Location: south wales, uk
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| Posted: Tue Apr 20, 2004 2:36 pm Post subject: |
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[quote="Student1"]
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Not true.
While most men would be interested to look at a skimpily dressed woman, not all men would take advantage of them, as Islam teaches.
What a woman dresses, is up to her. Whether a man takes advantage of her, it is up to his level of self-control.
Don't give excuses when you molest women. Molesters are perverts, people who have problems with self-control. Do not pin the blame on others.
Obviously, followers of Islam have very little self-control, when they want to pin the blame of sexual misconduct largely on women.
There are many other reasons why we reject Islam. If you check out the thread under 'Muhammad' for example, you would find other reasons.
In a nutshell, Muhammad was a man who robbed, plundered, murdered his critics, enslaved others for personal profit. Not to mention that he was also a child-molester.
And Allah did not see anything wrong with Muhammad's behaviour. Neither do most Muslims. Either that, or they give the most ridiculous reasons to support murder, child-molest, slavery, warfare, forced conversion to Islam, etc etc.
Even in my society, the largest group of ppl who need social welfare and government financial aid are Muslims, followers of Allah. Same for the largest group of ppl in poverty, illiteracy and female oppression. You wanna talk about terrorism too?
Kinda tells us kafirs what to expect, should we follow Allah. |
and where did this information? on websites like these??! great, well done, pat on the back for you
and yeah syamal you should be frightened, enjoy hell, send me a postcard |
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