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AhmedBahgat

Joined: 25 Jan 2006 Posts: 10001
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Posted: Thu Aug 07, 2008 8:15 am Post subject: |
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| Aksel Ankersen wrote: |
Sure, I accept that, but the subject of the post was the word massa, usually rendered as "touch".
In the Koran massa usually is used to mean an affliction, but either way it is more involved than simply "touch".
مسني
مس
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The word Massa in the verse must mean inercourse, this is the only way a possible pregnancy may occur (naturally) _________________ Click to read and watch my 10000 comment on FFI |
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Haik Monsieur

Joined: 17 Sep 2006 Posts: 2393 Location: FFI
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Posted: Sat Dec 13, 2008 12:16 pm Post subject: |
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Quran Sanctions Paedophilia
Khalil Fariel
The prime accusation against Islam’s prophet is focused on his abnormal personality. He married a six year old Aisha and had sex with the girl when she was only nine and Muhammad being a man of 52 at that time. Heated debates have been there all the time, and though Muhammad’s paedophilia is convincingly proved by critics of Islam, Muslims are still clinging to straws and yet to accept this proven fact.
But there is inadequacy in critics’ approach in this matter. That is, instead of proving the case beyond any scope of doubt using Islam’s most authentic text Quran, all have so far focused on hadiths and their interpretations. This approach has sometimes let Muslims off the hook because some of them are under the banner of Quran only and few of the hadiths Muslims. When prominent hadith interpreters like Hafiz Ibn Hajar Asqalani have been quoted, this group rushes to question their authenticity and shrug off likewise.
In fact, there should not be any doubt in Paedophilia is an accepted practice in Islam, because the most authentic text of Muslims, Quran supports it. Infidels always ignore this part while debating on Muhammad’s paedophilia. If this abominable practice is accepted and supported by Quran, then there should be no noise on Muhammad adopting this and implementing it in his life. Apart from Muhammad second Caliph of Islam Omar also implemented it in his life and many of Sahabas (followers) whom Muhammad said are the best among Muslims for being his contemporary. This article will look on Paedophilia as an accepted and supported practice by Quran.
Quran has stipulated a waiting period for women to get remarried once they divorced, or their husbands died. This waiting period is called Iddah as mentioned in Quran. But there is an exception the god of Quran prescribes for a group of women even though they fall in any of the above category. See in Quran:
O ye who believe! If ye wed believing women and divorce them before ye have touched them, then there is no period that ye should reckon. But content them and release them handsomely.
Ya ayyuha allatheena amanoo itha nakahtumu almuminati thumma tallaqtumoohunna min qabli an tamassoohunna fama lakum AAalayhinna min AAiddatin taAAtaddoonaha famattiAAoohunna wasarrihoohunna sarahan jameelan [Quran. 33:49]
From the verses above it is understood that Iddah (stipulated waiting period) is tied to sex. If one woman is not touched by her husband, she should not have to observe any waiting period at all.
So, one of the reasons for god of Quran to stipulate Iddah should be to avoid any chances of pregnancy; it is not clear what other reasons are there or even there is another reason or not.
Now, after mentioning of women who haven’t been used for sex, Quran steps further to say of women who need to be observed Iddah and the time-span too. We see:
Such of your women as have passed the age of monthly courses, for them the prescribed period, if ye have any doubts, is three months, and for those who have no courses (it is the same): for those who carry (life within their wombs), their period is until they deliver their burdens: and for those who fear Allah, He will make their path easy.
Waalla-ee ya-isna mina almaheedi min nisa-ikum ini irtabtum faAAiddatuhunna thalathatu ashhurin waalla-ee lam yahidna waolatu al-ahmali ajaluhunna an yadaAAna hamlahunna waman yattaqi Allaha yajAAal lahu min amrihi yusran. [Quran. 65:4]
Here Iddah is prescribed to categories of women. First it says: “Yaisna mina al-maheedhi” = “those women who are desperate of menses”= is an indication to women who reached the stage of menstruation but do not menstruate and of those who reached menopause. Desperate of menses underlines it concerns women who though reached the age, fail to menstruate too. Their Iddah period is three months. (As it said earlier, the logic behind this is unknown) Next there comes, “Wallaee Lam yahidhna” = “those who have not menstruated yet” this group of women is pre-pubescent girls who have not menstruated yet. Here Iddah prescribed for them is the same as three months.
[I would urge readers to take particular attention on the phrase “Wallaee Lam Yahidhna” = translated as “Those who have not menstruated yet” because it is going to be most important in this article.]
Let us just combine these verses to the verses quoted earlier. If a woman who has not used for sex should not have to observe any Iddah at all, as mentioned in 33:49, what is the reason for the prescribed Iddah for those women who haven’t menstruated yet? This is a clear indication marrying pre-pubescent girls and having sex with them is sanctioned by Quran.
Bringing Quranic verses even though their message is obvious is not enough for some Muslims to get convinced Quran sponsors paedophilia. They like to assign a different meaning and interpretation for the phrase in the concerned verses (65:4) “Lam Yahidhna” = “Not menstruated yet”. Some Muslims argue, this phrase only refers women who have reached the age of puberty and failed to have courses. This is the prime argument. But seldom it holds water because, the group of women who have reached the age of puberty and do not menstruate is covered in the phrase that comes prior to “Lam yahidhna” in Quran. That is:”Yaisna min al-Maheedhi” desperate of menstruation. Two categories of women can be desperate of menses.
1. Women who reached menopause
2. Women who reached the stage of puberty but do not menstruate.
So, when women who reached the stage of menstruation but fail to have courses are covered in the phrase of the relevant Quranic verse. The phrase is “Yaisna Min al-Maheedhi”. The phrase under trial here is “Lam Yahidhna” which comes next to it. It is simple logic, a group of women as covered in the earlier phrase should not be needed to repeat in next phrase. This is Quran which is considered to be the words of an almighty Allah, so it is not a matter of joke at all.
Secondly, what comes from the Muslims’ side is an argument it is “Nisa” mentioned in the verses 65:4. They argue “Nisa” means women so the verse should not be referring pre-pubertal girls. But this is a very lame excuse which can be refuted using the same Quran. See some verses from Quran where we find the word “Nisa”:
1. And [remember the time] when we saved you from Pharaoh's people, who afflicted you with cruel suffering, slaughtering your sons and sparing [only] your women - which was an awesome trial from your Sustainer;
Waith najjaynakum min ali firawna yasoomoonakum sooa alAAathabi yuthabbihoona abnaakum wayastahyoona Nisaakum wafee thalikum balaon min rabbikum AAatheemun [Quran. 2:49]
2. Said the chiefs of Pharaoh's people: "Wilt thou leave Moses and his people, to spread mischief in the land, and to abandon thee and thy gods?" He said: "Their male children will we slay; (only) their females will we save alive; and we have over them (power) irresistible."
Waqala almalao min qawmi firawna atatharu moosa waqawmahu liyufsidoo fee alardi wayatharaka waalihataka qala sanuqattilu abnaahum wanastahyee Nisaahum wainna fawqahum qahiroona [Quran 7:127]
3. And remember we rescued you from Pharaoh's people, who afflicted you with the worst of penalties, who slew your male children and saved alive your females: in that was a momentous trial from your Lord.
Waith anjaynakum min ali firawna yasoomoonakum sooa alAAathabi yuqattiloona abnaakum wayastahyoona Nisaakum wafee thalikum balaon min rabbikum AAatheemun [Quran 7: 141]
4. Remember! Moses said to his people: "Call to mind the favour of Allah to you when He delivered you from the people of Pharaoh: they set you hard tasks and punishments, slaughtered your sons, and let your females live: therein was a tremendous trial from your Lord.
Waith qala moosa liqawmihi othkuroo niAAmata Allahi AAalaykum ith anjakum min ali firawna yasoomoonakum sooa alAAathabi wayuthabbihoona abnaakum wayastahyoona Nisaakum wafee thalikum balaon min rabbikum AAatheemun [Quran 14:6]
5. And when he brought them the Truth from Our presence, they said: Slay the sons of those who believe with him, and spare their females. But the plot of disbelievers is in naught but error.
Falamma jaahum bialhaqqi min AAindina qaloo oqtuloo abnaa allatheena amanoo maAAahu waistahyoo Nisaahum wama kaydu alkafireena illa fee dalalin [Quran 40:25]
All in the above verses, the word “NISA” is used to signify “Female infants”. To get the picture right, it is required to quote Exodus because these verses are replicas of story depicted in Exodus.
And the king of Egypt spoke to the Hebrew midwives, of whom the name of the one was Shiphrah, and the name of the other Puah;
and he said: 'When ye do the office of a midwife to the Hebrew women, ye shall look upon the birthstool: if it be a son, then ye shall kill him; but if it be a daughter, then she shall live.' [Exodus, Chapter 1: 15-16]
And Pharaoh charged all his people, saying: 'Every son that is born ye shall cast into the river, and every daughter ye shall save alive. [Exodus, Chapter 1:22]
The story of Israelites under Pharaoh and his command to kill all male offspring but let females alive..! If we check all those Quranic verses, it is NISA used to signify female infants; because the story is Pharaoh commanding to kill all male offspring and let all female offspring live. So, “NISA” simply means females. That is what we get from Quran.
Now, to reinforce this contention Quran sanctions pre-pubescent marriage and sex which is paedophilia in pure sense, rest of this article will look into the most authentic Tafsirs (Interpretation of Quran) and get the exact message of Quran 65:4 which stipulates Iddah for pre-pubescent girls too. First of all, let us have it from modern day scholars:
And if you are in doubt about those of your women who have despaired of menstruation, (you should know that) their waiting period is three months, and the same applies to those who have not menstruated as yet. They may not have menstruated as yet either because of young age, or delayed menstrual discharge as it happens in the case of some women, or because of no discharge at all throughout life which, though rare, may also be the case. In any case, the waiting-period of such a woman is the same as of the woman, who has stopped menstruation that is three months from the time divorce was pronounced.
Here, one should bear in mind the fact that according to the explanations given in the Quran the question of the waiting period arises in respect of the women with whom marriage may have been consummated, for there is no waiting-period in case divorce is pronounced before the consummation of marriage. (Al-Ahzab: 49). Therefore, making mention of the waiting-period for the girls who have not yet menstruated, clearly proves that it is not only permissible to give away the girl in marriage at this age but it is also permissible for the husband to consummate marriage with her. Now, obviously no Muslim has the right to forbid a thing which the Quran has held as permissible. [Sayyid Abul Ala Maududi: Tafhim al Quran. Commentary on Quran Chapter 65:4]
Note here what Maududi mentions giving pre-pubescent girls in marriage and consummating the marriage with them. The interpreter affirms it is permitted by Quran and no Muslims can question or forbid it. This viewpoint is shared by late Mufti of Saudi Arabia Mufti Muhammad ibn Saalih al-Uthaymeen al-Wuhaibi al-Tamimi (1925-2001 CE):
If a woman does not menstruate, either because she is very young or old and past menopause, then her ‘iddah is three months, because Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):
“And those of your women as have passed the age of monthly courses, for them the ‘Iddah (prescribed period), if you have doubt (about their periods), is three months; and for those who have no courses [(i.e. they are still immature) their ‘Iddah (prescribed period) is three months likewise[Quran. Surah al-Talaaq 65:4]
Shaykh Muhammad ibn ‘Uthaymeen, Majmoo’at As’ilah tahumm al-Usrah al-Muslimah, p. 61-63.
http://www.islamqa.com/index.php?ln=eng&ds=qa&QR=12667
Reason for bringing two modern day scholars is only to show nothing has changed in the Islamic tenets on marrying and having sex with pre-pubescent girls even in this living era. Now, let us just have a glance at earlier more authentic Tafsirs. Only relevant parts from the Tafsirs will be quoted, because quoting all will be much space consuming.
First of all, most prominent of all Mufassirs (Quran interpreters) Ibn Kathir:
Allah the Exalted clarifies the waiting period of the woman in menopause. And that is the one whose menstruation has stopped due to her older age. Her `Iddah is three months instead of the three monthly cycles for those who menstruate, which is based upon the Ayah in (Surat) Al-Baqarah. 2:228). The same for the young, who have not reached the years of menstruation. Their `Iddah is three months like those in menopause. [Ibn Kathir on Quran 65:4]
See in here, Ibn Kathir mentions clearly, Quran 65:4 is mentioned women in menopause and young girls who have not reached the years of menstruation. Next, Tafsir Jalalain of Imam Jalaluddin Mahalli and Jalaluddin Suyuti also interprets the verse in the same way:
And [as for] those of your women who no longer expect to menstruate, if you have any doubts, about their waiting period, their prescribed [waiting] period shall be three months, and [also for] those who have not yet menstruated, because of their young age, their period shall [also] be three months. [Tafsir Jalalain on Quran 65:4]
Notice it here too two of the famous Mufassirs interpret “Those who haven’t not menstruated yet” in the verses 65:4 refers to pre-pubescent girls.
Apart from these two, most of other Tafsirs are not available in English. So, it is necessary to bring the Arabic Tafsirs. Some more Tafsirs will be brought not in English, but in Arabic. And the translation of the relevant portion will also be given accordingly.
حُدثت عن الحسين، قال: سمعت أبا معاذ يقول: ثنا عبيد، قال: سمعت الضحاك يقول في قوله: { وَاللاَّئِي يَئِسْنَ مِنَ المَحِيضِ... } الآية، قال: القواعد من النساء { واللاَّئِي لَمْ يَحِضْنَ }: لم يبلغن المحيض، وقد مُسِسْن، عدتهنّ ثلاثة.
[Tafsir Tabari on Quran 65:4] The underlined part translated as: “Those who haven’t menstruated yet” refers to those who have not reached the age of menstruation, and their Iddah also is three months.
روي أن ناساً قالوا: قد عرفنا عدة ذوات الأقراء، فما عدة اللائي لا يحضن؛ فنزلت: فمعنى { إِنِ ٱرْتَبْتُمْ }: إن أشكل عليكم حكمهن وجهلتم كيف يعتددن فهذا حكمهنّ، وقيل: إن ارتبتم في ذم البالغات مبلغ اليأس وقد قدروه بستين سنة وبخمس وخمسين، أهو دم حيض أو استحاضة؟ { فَعِدَّتُهُنَّ ثَلَـٰثَةُ أَشْهُرٍ } وإذا كانت هذه عدة المرتاب بها، فغير المرتاب بها أولى بذلك { وَٱلَّٰۤئى لَمْ يَحِضْنَ } هن الصغائر
[Tafsir Zamakshari on Quran 65:4] The underlined text means “Those who haven’t menstruated” are young girls.
{ واللآئي لم يحضن } تقديره واللآئي لم يحضن إن ارتبتم فعدتهن أيضاً ثلاثة أشهر وحذف لدلالة الكلام الأول عليه وهن اللواتي لم يبلغن المحيض ومثلهن تحيض على ما مرَّ بيانه.
[Tafsir Tabrasi on Quran 65:4] The underlined text translates as “They are those who haven’t reached the age of menstruation” Tabrasi comments on the phrase “Wallaee Lam yahidhna” = “Those who have not menstruated yet” in the verse.
وقيل: إن ارتبتم في دم البالغات مبلغ الإياس وقد قدروه بستين سنة وبخمس وخمسين أهو دم حيض أو استحاضة { فَعِدَّتُهُنَّ ثَلَـٰثَةُ أَشْهُرٍ } فلما نزل قوله تعالى: { فَعِدَّتُهُنَّ ثَلَـٰثَةُ أَشْهُرٍ } قام رجل فقال: يا رسول الله فما عدة الصغيرة التي لم تحض؟ فنزل: { وَٱللاَّئِي لَمْ يَحِضْنَ } أي هي بمنزلة الكبيرة التي قد يئست عدتها ثلاثة أشهر،
[Tafsir Al-Razi on Quran 65:4] The underlined part reveals the context of the verse 65:4. It is translated as: “A man stood up and asked “Oh messenger of Allah, what is the Iddah of those (girls) who have not reached the age of menstruation? Then it revealed: “Those who haven’t menstruated yet” their Iddah also is three months.
قوله تعالى: { وَٱللاَّتِي لَمْ يَحِضْنَ } ـ يعني الصغيرة ـ فعدّتهن ثلاثة أشه
[Tafsir Qurtubi on Quran 65:4] Translated as: Allah’s saying “those who have not menstruated yet” means young girls, their Iddah too is three months.
{ وَٱللاَّئِى يَئِسْنَ مِنَ ٱلْمَحِيضِ مِن نّسَائِكُمْ } وهن الكبار اللاتي قد انقطع حيضهن وأيسن منه { إِنِ ٱرْتَبْتُمْ } أي: شككتم وجهلتم كيف عدتهن { فَعِدَّتُهُنَّ ثَلَـٰثَةُ أَشْهُرٍ وَٱللاَّئِى لَمْ يَحِضْنَ } لصغرهن، وعدم بلوغهن سن المحيض، أي: فعدتهن ثلاثة أشهر،
[Tafsir Al-Shoukani. On Quran 65:4] The underlined part translated as: “Those who have not menstruated yet” are young girls who have not reached the age of menstruation.
{ واللائي لم يحضن } ، فالعدة هذه، فتلخص في قوله: { إن ارتبتم } قولان: أحدهما، أنه على ظاهر مفهوم اللغة فيه، وهو حصول الشك؛ والآخر، أن معناه التيقن للإياس؛ والقول الأول معناه: إن ارتبتم في دمها، أهو دم حيض أو دم علة؟ أو إن ارتبتم في علوق بحمل أم لا؛ أو إن ارتبتم: أي جهلتم عدتهن، أقوال. والظاهر أن قوله: { واللائي لم يحضن } يشمل من لم يحض لصغر،
[Tafsir Abu-Hayyan. On Quran 65:4] The underlined text: “Those who have not menstruated yet” denotes those not menstruated because of being young. The Tafsirs have been reproduced from this website: http://www.altafsir.com/
More can be brought from authentic Quran interpreters but those will only serve to consume space. Here all in above what is common is all Mufassirs have interpreted the phrase in Quran 65:4, “Those who have not menstruated” as “Those girls who have not reached the age of menstruation due to their young age” Thus we have an abundance of sources indicating “Quran stipulated Iddah = waiting period for pre-pubescent girls too”. Iddah occurs in two instances. Either because of divorce or the death of husband, so naturally Iddah follows after marriage and consummation.
Conclusion: When Quran stipulates Iddah to pre-pubescent girls, how clear it can be that Quran supports marrying and having sex with pre-pubescent girls..!! Since no Iddah is prescribed for a woman who has not had intimate contacts with her husband, we see Iddah is prescribed for pre-pubescent girls in Quran 65:4. This is a definite indication Quran endorses paedophilia, the most abominable of all sexual crimes.
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