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Anna Doe
Joined: 25 Dec 2005
Posts: 2745
Location: Somewhere on the spheric kafir earth, vaccinating people against islam
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 Posted: Tue Feb 27, 2007 1:32 am Post subject: |
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Sona, it seems you have been banned.
I will answer your post in the time allowed to me and then the debate, I presume, will be frozen until you fix your situation or appoint somebody to continue the debate with me.
_________________
Vaccinate yourself against islam: read the koran!
Orenda: islam orders women to hide themselves so rapists won't be tempted to harass them, it is as stupid as to ask colored people to hide themselves so racists won't be tempted to harass them |
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Sona
Joined: 02 Jan 2007
Posts: 3627
Location: On your wife
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| Posted: Thu Mar 01, 2007 10:47 am Post subject: |
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| Anna Doe wrote: |
Sona, it seems you have been banned.
I will answer your post in the time allowed to me and then the debate, I presume, will be frozen until you fix your situation or appoint somebody to continue the debate with me.
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Its seems am back. We can continue the debate.
_________________
Stupid ho's on here. Am done fool! |
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Anna Doe
Joined: 25 Dec 2005
Posts: 2745
Location: Somewhere on the spheric kafir earth, vaccinating people against islam
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| Posted: Tue Mar 06, 2007 8:26 am Post subject: |
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| Sona wrote: |
| Anna Doe wrote: |
You never brought evidence that allah created all things in pairs.
I brought evidence that many things are not created in pairs. |
That is wrong. The evidence is in the Qu'ran. I said the things which you're talking about such as planets etc. Originally evolved and separated into different species. When Allah is talking about pairs or living things he is talking about original creation. There is no mention of time in the verse, so you can't say Allah created static pairs which don't split and evolve into different species. As there is another verse in the Qu'ran which says Allah shapes things he has power over all things etc. |
"originally" is not written in the verse. Anyway you didn't proove that allah created all things in pairs even in his original creation. You just state, this is not enough of course, will you believe if I state "I am more intelligent than allah?"
| Sona wrote: |
| Anna Doe wrote: |
| I shouldn't have to explain or proove a negative. You should have been the one to support your god's claim that all things are created in pairs. |
I have proved it, there is no mention of time in the verse Allah is talking about original creation. You still haven't proved to me what the plants and other species you talk about where originally. You believe in evolution right? so explain to me what they evolved out of. The original creation evolved out of two species male and female (pair) for example humans. We humans are decedents of Adam and Eve. Originally there was only two (male & female) a pair which we have evolved from. |
Evolution denies that we are descendants of a original pair. Please read other debates on this subject at FFI. I never heard of an reknown anthropologist who claims that. Please bring me some support.
| Sona wrote: |
| The same applies to planets |
Please bring me support to your claim that planets are created in pairs.
http://www.wanderer.org/nineplanets/other.html
http://vo.obspm.fr/exoplanetes/encyclo/searches.php
Does the same applies to moons?
http://www.enchantedlearning.com/subjects/astronomy/planets/
Uranus has 15 moons, not in pairs
Pluto has 3 moons, not in pairs either.
| Sona wrote: |
| and other organisms. Originally there was only two (male & female) which the rest have evolved out of. If anything you're the one that needs to bring evidence of the (original) conception of these species. You have to go right to the beginning. |
Again I heard only about the theory of universal common descent, i.e. the metaphore of the Tree of Life
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Life_on_earth#Evolution
and the new theory of Horizontal Gene Transfer, the metaphore of the mosaic
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Horizontal_gene_transfer
http://www.sci.sdsu.edu/~smaloy/MicrobialGenetics/topics/genetic-exchange/exchange/exchange.html
http://www.esalenctr.org/display/confpage.cfm?confid=10&pageid=105&pgtype=1
Please bring me some support in the scientific litterature for your theory.
| Sona wrote: |
| Anna Doe wrote: |
| I brought many examples of animals and plants who are not created in pairs when one should have suffice to prove allah is wrong and you didn't refute: just claim it is was not pairs at the beginning but without any support from scientific and expert litterature. |
I said go back to the conception of the species. I am talking about evolution. Evolution states it takes millions of not billions of years for living things to evolve and split of into different species and adapt to the environment. I am saying prove to me what these species and cell you talk about where originally what have they evolved out of?. |
See my previous answer:
 ...
And I saw a schematic drawing of the mosaic of Horizontal Gene Transfer but it was removed sudenly from the wikipedia page...
| Sona wrote: |
| Anna Doe wrote: |
| Additionally you yourself shoot in your foot when you assert that there are living creatures who were not in pairs but after a few thousands of years couldn't survive. |
I don't think I shot myself in the foot. I was simply stating that originally they could have been in pairs and then split into different single species. However, other then bacteria I don't think there is currently any living single species. There are no single celled animals today living on the earth. |
!!!
Why are you talking about animals? allah didn't say he created all animals in pairs, he said all things.
Why would he creates 2 first bacteries when one suffices? Not a very practical god for that also... I would advice you to change the inexistant attribute of al-tatawwir to al-redundant in your list.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Single-celled_organism
| Quote: |
Bacteria are the simplest and the most diverse and widespread group of organisms on Earth. Bacteria inhabit practically all environments where some liquid water is available and the temperature is below +140 °C. They are found in sea water, soil, the Gastrointestinal tract, hot springs and in food. Practically all surfaces which have not been specially sterilized are covered in bacteria. The number of bacteria in the world is estimated to be around five million trillion trillion, or 5 × 1030.[10]
...
Bacteria are surrounded by a cell wall. They reproduce by binary fission. |
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Binary_fission
| Quote: |
Many organisms reproduce by binary fission, such as:
Eubacteria
Archaebacteria, such as Pyrodictium abyssi (an anaerobic thermophile of deep-sea hydrothermal vents)
Some eukaryotes reproduce using binary fission-like methods. Mitosis is thought to derive from binary fission. |
http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/dp5/sex1.htm#s1
| Quote: |
| In unicellular organisms it usually takes the form of fission (or mitosis), in which the parent organism splits into two or more identical 'daughter' organisms. In some cases, the cells thus formed may remain clustered together to form filaments or colonies. |
And I already told you that the evolutionary steps (actually still practiced today everywhere in the living world) for sexual reproduction arised from asexual reproduction:
http://dorakmt.tripod.com/evolution/sreprod.html
| Quote: |
Mitotic parthenogenesis
Sexual parthenogenesis
Self-fertilizing hermaphroditism [simultaneous or sequential]
Sex with polyembryony
Inbreeding sex
Outbreeding sex |
Sona, scientists believe pairs are the result not the source. That is first there was one that evolved in two and not like you are repeating over and over again, but without bringing any other support other than your koran and your blind faith, that first there were two, and you add that maybe but without success some became only one unit.
(Well anyway allah may have many attributes, but none of them is evolver as I have proven in a previous post, something you claimed but never prooved. Again, The Arabic term for evolution is Tatawwur, there is no "al-tatawwir" in the koran. See a little after the middle of this post:
http://www.faithfreedom.org/forum/viewtopic.php?p=730267#730267 )
But most of the living creatures are ones! Not a very practical god if what you said that he created pairs then made them unisexual is true. Again:
http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/dp5/sex1.htm#s1
| Quote: |
| Asexual reproduction is found in the majority of living organisms, including most plants, protists (e.g. bacteria, protozoans, and unicellular algae and fungi), and many lower invertebrates. |
Why would allah creates pairs if later most of his creations are ones. Did he changed his mind? Your allah changes his mind all the time like a child or a teenager! isn't it illogic at the end?
| Anna Doe wrote: |
Additionally it is not only plants and animals that were created in pairs but everything. That is even easier to proove false:
The first thing created by allah is supposedly Light. And photons do not have a pair. |
You didn't answer.
| sona wrote: |
| Anna Doe wrote: |
allah created 7 heavens: clearly not in pairs.
But before this, it seems allah also said in the koran he created the earth and the heavens as one. |
You're taking a metaphysical verse too literally. |
muslims repeat these miracle over and over again (well as soon as it was defined by the non-muslims of course - atmospheric layers and big-bang) and when I take that as a claim contradicting other verses of allah, it is not true anymore but spiritual imaginary not facts?
I repeat, allah has created 7 heavens, not in pairs; with stars below the sun and the moon in the troposphere or lower heaven! Don't you see them when you fly in a plane?
| sona wrote: |
| Anna Doe wrote: |
| allah created the fingertips, clearly not in pairs. |
What are the fingers attached to?  |
This is so silly but let's play: what are the hands attached to? one body
Seriously, I was talking of course about the fingerprints! Did you ever read my quote? No, again!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Finger_Prints
| Quote: |
The flexibility of friction ridge skin means that no two finger or palm prints are ever exactly alike (never identical in every detail), even two impressions recorded immediately after each other.
...
No two fingerprints have ever been found identical in many billions of human and automated computer comparisons. |
If all things are in pairs, why didn't allah create at least the fingerprints of one person, or of one person's pair of finger (i.e. thumbs or indexes etc...) pairs?
Of course you didn't refute me, this is another example that all things are not created in pairs.
| sona wrote: |
| Anna Doe wrote: |
| allah didn't create our irises in pairs: |
What is the iris attached to? |
Again that silly game instead of realizing mohamedallah's ignorance and errors? Let's play again, may be only like that you can understand: what is the eye attached to? One head
Seriously, this is the same thought i wrote about fingerprints, if all things are in pairs, why didn't allah create at least the irisis of one person pairs?
Of course here again you didn't refute me, this is another example that all things are not created in pairs, irisis and fingerprints are unique.
| sona wrote: |
| Anna Doe wrote: |
| Nor our retinas: |
What are they attached to? |
Sigh! Idem from above.
| sona wrote: |
| Anna Doe wrote: |
| You claim they came from seeds but in your own link it is written the contrary: |
I was talking about the evolution of the plants. I didn't know trees formed without seeds originally. |
Ok, so you accept you thought wrongly, i.e. you don't have support about the fern being a pair.
| sona wrote: |
| Anna Doe wrote: |
| Why allah was so absolute? Why didn't he say "That has created pairs in many things" and not "That has created pairs in all things"? How can allah be ignorant of asexuality, hermaphrodism or parthenogenesis or of the retina pattern, the finger prints and the photon? How can an omniscient allah wrote such a mistake? |
Allah is not wrong. He is right in everything. Just someone can't explain something don't mean there isen't an explanation for it. Originally everything was in a pair! everything has evolved out of that pair. |
Ok, this quote seems to sum up the debate. Your response there is in fact your response in all your posts but in condensed: 5 tiny sentences resulting from the blind faith of a muslim.
I am sorry Sona, these sentences don't proove allah created all things in pairs. These sentences only proove that whatever the evidences, you will crawl back in your beliefs. Some islamocritics sum this by saying you are putting your fingers in your ears and repeating as a mantra "la la la la la la la la", i forgot the exact terms "ilalah ilah" something with mohamed somewhere in it.
Well that is of course not enough. But let's finish here, except if you bring new information in your next post that I will take the pleasure to answer in a new post of mine, I will propose please, if you don't object, that you write the next first post of the next topic, i.e. the all-knowing allah and his oblivion of the human brain in the koran, I mean allah thinks wrongly (again) that the heart is the center of our thoughts. He never mentioned the brain!
_________________
Vaccinate yourself against islam: read the koran!
Orenda: islam orders women to hide themselves so rapists won't be tempted to harass them, it is as stupid as to ask colored people to hide themselves so racists won't be tempted to harass them |
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Sona
Joined: 02 Jan 2007
Posts: 3627
Location: On your wife
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| Posted: Thu Apr 05, 2007 4:24 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
"originally" is not written in the verse. Anyway you didn't proove that allah created all things in pairs even in his original creation. You just state, this is not enough of course, will you believe if I state "I am more intelligent than allah?" |
This is just silly hypothetical argument. We have stated many times, there is no mention of time in the verse. So all therefor could not be talking about a static time of creation, he was talking about an evolution of time. Originally, he created the first building blocks of live in a fair and the rest evolved.
| Quote: |
| Evolution denies that we are descendants of a original pair. Please read other debates on this subject at FFI. I never heard of an reknown anthropologist who claims that. Please bring me some support. |
This is not something which we are talking about. You're misconstruing what we are actually saying and what you're typing. We are saying the building block of all matter was originally a pair, and over time it evolved. Allah fashioned it. Here is a verse describing this process:
| Quote: |
[URL="http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/quran/059.qmt.html#059.024"]059.024[/URL]
YUSUFALI: He is Allah, the Creator, the Evolver, the Bestower of Forms (or Colours). To Him belong the Most Beautiful Names: whatever is in the heavens and on earth, doth declare His Praises and Glory: and He is the Exalted in Might, the Wise. |
So your assertions are completely false and shows the lack of intelligence you have on this subject. You have insubstantial intellect to comprehend this Quranic verse.
Again we have to say Allah never talked about time in the verse. Allah is talking about the original matter which everything was created from. You can pull all these links out however this never proves anything. Even the Arabs know there is ONE sun, a normal person would notice this, so I hardly think Allah would make such a blunder in the Quran - the pairs is meaning the original matter from which everything was created from. Do you see now how silly you sound?
These are not facts, these are just theory. Due to the nature of theories and the fact that they change over time, I do not want to comment on this. I will only comment on proven facts.
| Quote: |
If all things are in pairs, why didn't allah create at least the fingerprints of one person, or of one person's pair of finger (i.e. thumbs or indexes etc...) pairs?
Of course you didn't refute me, this is another example that all things are not created in pairs. |
This is so childish. You're trying say something which Allah never said.
Its like when Shakespeare said "All the world's a stage, And all the men and women merely players!" does this mean all the world is really a stage? of course not, you don't seem to comprehend the poetic nature of the qu'ran, you're trying to read it like a scientific book. And this is just very silly.
| Quote: |
Ok, this quote seems to sum up the debate. Your response there is in fact your response in all your posts but in condensed: 5 tiny sentences resulting from the blind faith of a muslim.
I am sorry Sona, these sentences don't proove allah created all things in pairs. These sentences only proove that whatever the evidences, you will crawl back in your beliefs. Some islamocritics sum this by saying you are putting your fingers in your ears and repeating as a mantra "la la la la la la la la", i forgot the exact terms "ilalah ilah" something with mohamed somewhere in it.
Well that is of course not enough. But let's finish here, except if you bring new information in your next post that I will take the pleasure to answer in a new post of mine, I will propose please, if you don't object, that you write the next first post of the next topic, i.e. the all-knowing allah and his oblivion of the human brain in the koran, I mean allah thinks wrongly (again) that the heart is the center of our thoughts. He never mentioned the brain! |
A'uthu bil-Lahil 'atheemi wa biwajhi-hil kareemi wasultaani-hil qadeemi minash-shaytaanir rajeem.
Last edited by Sona on Thu Apr 26, 2007 2:51 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Anna Doe
Joined: 25 Dec 2005
Posts: 2745
Location: Somewhere on the spheric kafir earth, vaccinating people against islam
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| Posted: Fri Apr 13, 2007 6:04 am Post subject: |
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Dear Sona, just to be sure, you do know that I am waiting for your first post on our next topic "The all-knowing allah and his oblivion of the human brain in the koran", don't you?
There was nothing new in your previous post. I already refuted all what you wrote there earlier, included allah-the-revolver that you are trying for the third time to sell as if I didn't already write the following rebuttal in my second post to you:
http://www.faithfreedom.org/forum/viewtopic.php?p=730267#730267
| Anna Doe wrote: |
The Arabic term for evolution is Tatawwur (تطور) so I don't see how “one who causes evolution” can be translated to “al-musawwir”. But Yusuf Ali is known to sweeten or show the koran to a better light by adding or changing words:
The tafsir Ibn Kathir doesn't speak of any evolver:
http://www.tafsir.com/default.asp?sid=59&tid=53293
| Quote: |
[فِى أَىِّ صُورَةٍ مَّا شَآءَ رَكَّبَكَ ]
(In whatever form He willed, He put you together.)(82:8 ) Allah describing Himself as being Al-Musawwir, Who brings into existence anything He wills in the shape and form He decides. |
Nor do Tafsir Al-Qurtubi
http://www.angelfire.com/mo2/scarves/allah.html
| Quote: |
| The Fashioner; the One Who forms His creatures in different pictures. Surah Hashr 59:24 |
Please notice that Yusuf Ali drops the 'evolver' and translate like everybody in the following verse where the verb form of “musawwir” is used:
http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/quran/003.qmt.html#003.006
| Quote: |
003.006
YUSUFALI: He it is Who shapes you in the wombs as He pleases. There is no god but He, the Exalted in Might, the Wise.
PICKTHAL: He it is Who fashioneth you in the wombs as pleaseth Him. There is no Allah save Him, the Almighty, the Wise.
SHAKIR: He it is Who shapes you in the wombs as He likes; there is no god but He, the Mighty, the Wise |
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The only thing new is your last sentence in a language that I don't understand, I presume in the language of allah, as if god as a mouth and a tongue and vocal cords and a need for a special language to interact with others  . Please, translate it for my pleasure and the pleasure of our readers if it is that important, thank you.
| sona wrote: |
| A'uthu bil-Lahil 'atheemi wa biwajhi-hil kareemi wasultaani-hil qadeemi minash-shaytaanir rajeem. |
I wrote you in my previous post:
| Anna Doe wrote: |
| let's finish here, except if you bring new information in your next post that I will take the pleasure to answer in a new post of mine, I will propose please, if you don't object, that you write the next first post of the next topic, i.e. the all-knowing allah and his oblivion of the human brain in the koran, I mean allah thinks wrongly (again) that the heart is the center of our thoughts. He never mentioned the brain! |
There is no new information in your post so I don't see any reason to repeat myself again.
Or maybe you need more time: are you and your imam still searching for the word brain in the koran? I told you, I searched too, it's not there. So what are your excuses this time? Or allah's excuses to be correct. Did the goat ate those verses too? Or maybe the kafirs have it all wrong and our thoughts are really coming from the heart 
Take you time!
_________________
Vaccinate yourself against islam: read the koran!
Orenda: islam orders women to hide themselves so rapists won't be tempted to harass them, it is as stupid as to ask colored people to hide themselves so racists won't be tempted to harass them |
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Sona
Joined: 02 Jan 2007
Posts: 3627
Location: On your wife
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| Posted: Fri Apr 13, 2007 9:55 am Post subject: |
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| Anna Doe wrote: |
Dear Sona, just to be sure, you do know that I am waiting for your first post on our next topic "The all-knowing allah and his oblivion of the human brain in the koran", don't you?
There was nothing new in your previous post. I already refuted all what you wrote there earlier, included allah-the-revolver that you are trying for the third time to sell as if I didn't already write the following rebuttal in my second post to you:
http://www.faithfreedom.org/forum/viewtopic.php?p=730267#730267
| Anna Doe wrote: |
The Arabic term for evolution is Tatawwur (تطور) so I don't see how “one who causes evolution” can be translated to “al-musawwir”. But Yusuf Ali is known to sweeten or show the koran to a better light by adding or changing words:
The tafsir Ibn Kathir doesn't speak of any evolver:
http://www.tafsir.com/default.asp?sid=59&tid=53293
| Quote: |
[فِى أَىِّ صُورَةٍ مَّا شَآءَ رَكَّبَكَ ]
(In whatever form He willed, He put you together.)(82:8 ) Allah describing Himself as being Al-Musawwir, Who brings into existence anything He wills in the shape and form He decides. |
Nor do Tafsir Al-Qurtubi
http://www.angelfire.com/mo2/scarves/allah.html
| Quote: |
| The Fashioner; the One Who forms His creatures in different pictures. Surah Hashr 59:24 |
Please notice that Yusuf Ali drops the 'evolver' and translate like everybody in the following verse where the verb form of “musawwir” is used:
http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/quran/003.qmt.html#003.006
| Quote: |
003.006
YUSUFALI: He it is Who shapes you in the wombs as He pleases. There is no god but He, the Exalted in Might, the Wise.
PICKTHAL: He it is Who fashioneth you in the wombs as pleaseth Him. There is no Allah save Him, the Almighty, the Wise.
SHAKIR: He it is Who shapes you in the wombs as He likes; there is no god but He, the Mighty, the Wise |
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The only thing new is your last sentence in a language that I don't understand, I presume in the language of allah, as if god as a mouth and a tongue and vocal cords and a need for a special language to interact with others . Please, translate it for my pleasure and the pleasure of our readers if it is that important, thank you.
| sona wrote: |
| A'uthu bil-Lahil 'atheemi wa biwajhi-hil kareemi wasultaani-hil qadeemi minash-shaytaanir rajeem. |
I wrote you in my previous post:
| Anna Doe wrote: |
| let's finish here, except if you bring new information in your next post that I will take the pleasure to answer in a new post of mine, I will propose please, if you don't object, that you write the next first post of the next topic, i.e. the all-knowing allah and his oblivion of the human brain in the koran, I mean allah thinks wrongly (again) that the heart is the center of our thoughts. He never mentioned the brain! |
There is no new information in your post so I don't see any reason to repeat myself again.
Or maybe you need more time: are you and your imam still searching for the word brain in the koran? I told you, I searched too, it's not there. So what are your excuses this time? Or allah's excuses to be correct. Did the goat ate those verses too? Or maybe the kafirs have it all wrong and our thoughts are really coming from the heart
Take you time!
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Look now you're just using strawman fallacy. You only refuted part of my post.
Even so if the worse doesn't say "evolver" he still mentions "shapes and forms" i.e he shapes and forms creatures i.e this is evolution.
And even if you contest - I can prove you wrong by referring to another verse.
Don't jump on to the next debate when this one has not even finished. You're not letting me post a rebuttal to your latest post. And want me to move on to the next, this is not debating.
You asked what I posted in a transliteration meant it means this:
I seek protection from Allah, The Sublime, and I seek the protection of His Merciful Self and of His Eternal Kingdom against the accursed devil. i.e you're the devil, in other words the devil has entered into your unveiled body and is using you as a tool to mislead humans into the hellfire. |
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Anna Doe
Joined: 25 Dec 2005
Posts: 2745
Location: Somewhere on the spheric kafir earth, vaccinating people against islam
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| Posted: Sat Apr 21, 2007 7:03 am Post subject: |
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Sona, it is now 8 days since you claimed you want to refute me (well actually it is 3 months ). I don't know what you want to refute, I didn't claim anything new or refute anything in my last post. I didn't have to, I already refute everything you wrote in my earlier posts. As an example I quoted the rebuttal regarding your wishfull thinking that allah is cited as an evolver in the koran.
Anyway, do what you have to do and please post afterward the first post of the next topic:
"The all-knowing allah and his oblivion of the human brain in the koran"
Please sona, go ahead, I am so impatient to read what your imam says about where allah the omniscient thinks your thoughts are coming from. I know it is not from the back bone, this is were your sperm is coming from, I know it is not from your left nostril, this is were the jinn is coming from. Where, Sona, we want to know because allah knows best!
_________________
Vaccinate yourself against islam: read the koran!
Orenda: islam orders women to hide themselves so rapists won't be tempted to harass them, it is as stupid as to ask colored people to hide themselves so racists won't be tempted to harass them |
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Sona
Joined: 02 Jan 2007
Posts: 3627
Location: On your wife
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| Posted: Sat Apr 21, 2007 11:43 am Post subject: |
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| Anna Doe wrote: |
Sona, it is now 8 days since you claimed you want to refute me (well actually it is 3 months ). I don't know what you want to refute, I didn't claim anything new or refute anything in my last post. I didn't have to, I already refute everything you wrote in my earlier posts. As an example I quoted the rebuttal regarding your wishfull thinking that allah is cited as an evolver in the koran.
Anyway, do what you have to do and please post afterward the first post of the next topic:
"The all-knowing allah and his oblivion of the human brain in the koran"
Please sona, go ahead, I am so impatient to read what your imam says about where allah the omniscient thinks your thoughts are coming from. I know it is not from the back bone, this is were your sperm is coming from, I know it is not from your left nostril, this is were the jinn is coming from. Where, Sona, we want to know because allah knows best!
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Go on then start the next topic.
_________________
Stupid ho's on here. Am done fool! |
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Anna Doe
Joined: 25 Dec 2005
Posts: 2745
Location: Somewhere on the spheric kafir earth, vaccinating people against islam
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| Posted: Mon Apr 23, 2007 4:51 pm Post subject: |
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Sona:
1) I began the first topic so I think it is normal you began the next one.
2) What do you think will be my first post? The topic title is quite obvious, the word brain doesn't appear in the koran. On the contrary time after time allah the all-knowing writes that our thoughts are coming from our hearts. Shouldn't the omniscient allah point at least one time that our thoughts are coming from the head? There is no point to have a first post repeating this (i.e. stating the obvious).
If allah is god and the koran is perfect, clear and the best guide for us, it shouldn't be hard to find verses where it is said that our thoughts are coming from the brain. If muslims claim the koran predicted the black holes and explains where the sperm is coming from, the phases of embryology and more, it certainly reveals somewhere the fonction of the stuffed meat (copyright mohamed (BUH)) found in our skulls! Your imam has certainly many verses about this. The brain is at least as important as the difference between the small and the big fart that allah explained to gibril who explained it to mohamed.
But if you continue to insist that I write the first post, I don't mind really: I just think it will take me less time to refute you than to write a 3000 words' post on the human brain .
This may save you time but anyway, you will have to sit down and think: "How come the Creator of all the universe didn't know that our thoughts are coming from our brain, inside the head?". Well He knows but the koran is not His as allah is not He.
_________________
Vaccinate yourself against islam: read the koran!
Orenda: islam orders women to hide themselves so rapists won't be tempted to harass them, it is as stupid as to ask colored people to hide themselves so racists won't be tempted to harass them |
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Sona
Joined: 02 Jan 2007
Posts: 3627
Location: On your wife
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| Posted: Wed Apr 25, 2007 12:45 pm Post subject: |
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Qu'rans statement that our thoughts come from our hearts is allegorical and should not be taken literally. Even in contemporary languages around the world, a similar expression is used to denote the innermost thoughts/intentions of a person.
But you'll be glad to know that the Qu'ran does point out in one verse that our actions are based in the brain.
Qu'ran 96:15-16 No! If he does not stop, We will take him by the "naseyah" (front of the head/forelock), a lying, sinful "naseyah" (front of the head/forelock)!
If we look into the skull at the front of the head, we will find the prefrontal area of the cerebrum. A book entitled Essentials of Anatomy & Physiology says about this area,
| Quote: |
| “The motivation and the foresight to plan and initiate movements occur in the anterior portion of the frontal lobes, the prefrontal area. This is a region of association cortex...” |
Also the book says,
| Quote: |
| “In relation to its involvement in motivation, the prefrontal area is also thought to be the functional center for aggression....” |
So, this area of the cerebrum is responsible for planning, motivating, and initiating good and sinful behavior and is responsible for the telling of lies and the speaking of truth. Thus, it is proper to describe the front of the head as lying and sinful when someone lies or commits a sin, as the Quran has said, “...A lying, sinful naseyah (front of the head)!”
So Allah did know that our thoughts really come from the brain.
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Anna Doe
Joined: 25 Dec 2005
Posts: 2745
Location: Somewhere on the spheric kafir earth, vaccinating people against islam
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| Posted: Fri Jun 01, 2007 10:41 pm Post subject: |
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I took some vacations too, as you are Sona on "vacations" for some time now, one ban after another!
I am sure many of your friends will update you so I will at last post my response to the above first post about the human brain in the koran but of course you can refute when you are able to.
Update: Oh well, Sona is back. You have been banned, a few times I think, and I wait for you politely and when you are back, you don't check with me but right away shout victory! why I am not surprised...
Please look at his thread and my post for information:
http://www.faithfreedom.org/forum/viewtopic.php?p=854909#854909
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| Sona wrote: |
| Qu'rans statement that our thoughts come from our hearts is allegorical and should not be taken literally. |
Symbolic koran huh? So the hell and the paradise may be allegories too? And the beating of the women? What with the smiting of necks? Maybe having slaves and 4 wives are allegories too? How can we know when the koran is allegoric or not? allah says the koran is clear, allegories are not, they open the way to interpretations.
How can allah punish so harshly if he gave his guide in allegories? Don't he know we can make mistakes because allegories can be confusing? Is this fair? How can he test us on a book he says is clear but that is not clear, because full of allegories that can be interpretated differently in different time and places?
| Sona wrote: |
| Even in contemporary languages around the world, a similar expression is used to denote the innermost thoughts/intentions of a person. |
Can you compare popular expressions used in popular talks with the last and eternel guide send by allah to mankind? Can't allah create sentences that are as true as beautiful, anywhere and at anytime?
How can he uses the word heart 50 times and never the word brain? Didn't the word brain exist in Arabic? If it did, why allah never used it ONCE and if it didn't, why did allah choose Arabic when for 2300 years before the talks of mohamed and gabriel, the Egyptians already had a word for brain? It is even possible they used the word for up to 3300 years before the hegira!
Please read this cute page from Neuroscience For Kids, about the Edwin Smith surgical papyrus, where are the first uses of "neuro" words in recorded history, like brain, meninges (coverings of the brain) and cerebrospinal fluid:
http://faculty.washington.edu/chudler/papy.html
Do you understand what that means? The Egyptians had a word for brain in 1700 BC, maybe already up to 3000 BC, but allah didn't in 620 AD? A little piece of papyrus has more vocabulary/knowledge/science than the whole koran! you will again say the koran is not science but signs (although it is what the muslims are selling with the koran, ask any convert or any born-again muslim), well dear Sona, what are those signs?
The horrible thought about this is to understand the damage islam has done to Egypt and the Egyptians, as it did too to other civilizations like Persia, Assyria or India, where your ancestors were enslaved and converted by terror to islam. What was done to all of you was a blow to all of us. Were would we be if islam didn't destroy half of the world? We may have lost a thousand year of development!
In my opinion, the koran saying our thoughs are coming from our hearts is not an allegory, moreover when allah says it in some 50 koranic verses! The expression comes from the past when people really believed thoughts were coming from, then, the most important organ, i.e. the heart, the house of the soul. Back then nobody knew really either what was the function of the heart nor the function of the brain. The history of the heart shows that men thought that the heart was the seat of intelligence and control, and thought that long before mohamed.
Now we may think we use this as an allegory because we know it is false, but then, it was a belief: people, included your prophet, thought this to be a fact, a truth.
1) the heart is connected with thoughts and feelings in the language even in modern times because it reflects what man believed
2) this is why allah more than 50 times in his perfect book, named the heart in connection with feelings or thinking, and not the brain.
http://www.stanford.edu/class/history13/earlysciencelab/body/heartpages/heart.html
| Quote: |
The heart has played an important role in understanding the body since antiquity. In the fourth century B. C., the Greek philosopher Aristotle identified the heart as the most important organ of the body... It was the seat of intelligence, motion, and sensation ... center of vitality in the body. Other organs surrounding it (e.g. brain and lungs) simply existed to cool the heart.
In his treatise On the Usefulness of the Parts of the Body, written in the second century A. D., Galen reaffirmed common ideas about the heart as the source of the body's innate heat and as the organ most closely related to the soul
...
He argued that the expansion and contraction of the heart was a function of its role as an intelligent organ |
(The Galen mentioned above is the same Galen whose embryology is reflected in the Quran!)
Why would an all-knowing allah use an expression that is false in meaning as many as 50 times in his final guide? Will you try now to say it is for poetic reasons? But why saying the thinking is from the heart, is more beautiful than saying it is from the brain, if not because people falsely thought too that the feelings are from the heart! What are the great assets in using the heart as the symbolic representation of the human intelligence and feelings?
Should allah use the wrong organ in his book for all mankind, all time and all places and be hurt and angry and pour boiling water on my skin forever and ever in hell because this makes me laugh? Sorry Sona, allah is quite ignorant: allah is not god and mohamed misleaded you all.
I am sorry sona, I know it is painful to critically read the koran. This happens with any of the so-called holy scriptures. I was there. I wouldn't do this to anyone if not for the fact that many muslims for the last 1430 years are doing harm and misery to others in the name of allah because of the koran and the sunnah. I know that muslims are not aware of the truth when they read it automatically without stoping to think about what they read, ask the apostates here. It is not your fault. It is a cycle going on since mohamed, fueled by blind faith, ego, power, money, fear but also a lot of love too.
Look at this verse, allah says our thinking and feelings are from the heart as our hearing is from the ears and our seeing is from the eyes, this is obviously not an allegory, it is really what the man, who wrote the koran, mohamed or someone or a group of people after his death, thought:
http://www.clay.smith.name/Parallel_Quran.2004.03.21.htm
| Quote: |
koran 017:036
Khan
And follow not (O man i.e., say not, or do not or witness not, etc.) that of which you have no knowledge (e.g. one's saying: "I have seen," while in fact he has not seen, or "I have heard," while he has not heard). Verily! The hearing, and the sight, and the heart, of each of those you will be questioned (by Allah).
Maulana
... the hearing and the sight and the heart...
Pickthal
...the hearing and the sight and the heart ...
Rashad
... the hearing, the eyesight, and the brain  ...
Sarwar
... the ears, eyes, and hearts ...
Shakir
... the hearing and the sight and the heart ...
Sherali
... the ear and the eye and the heart ...
Yusufali
...hearing, or of seeing or of (feeling in) the heart ... |
Only if you submit to the allah of Rashad, will your Creator knows that thinking is coming from the brain! We all know Rashad changed a few things in the koran, well he also fixed this mistake: he shamelessly translated heart with brain, fixing allah's error!!! Like many try to do with "spread" and "ostrich egg"! It is blunt, but at least he tries to stop making allah a fool, or ... he tries to not make himself a fool by praising divine a book that doesn't speak of the brain.
By the way look how the takiyist Yusuf Ali tried to make it sounds more like the popular expression by actually adding feelings in parentheses (less shocking than linking intelligence and heart) hoping to make it more acceptable like he did in koran 4:34 about the beating of the wife by adding "first", "then", "and last" and "lightly", as if this helps!
Well Rashad lied and Yusuf Ali mislead: unfortunately the koran says heart as does the tafsir of the verse 17:36. Period.
http://www.tafsir.com/default.asp?sid=17&tid=29022
| Quote: |
Do not speak without Knowledge
`Ali bin Abi Talhah reported that Ibn `Abbas said: "This means) do not say (anything of which you have no knowledge).'' Al-`Awfi said: "Do not accuse anyone of that of which you have no knowledge.'' Muhammad bin Al-Hanafiyyah said: "It means bearing false witness.'' Qatadah said: "Do not say, `I have seen', when you did not see anything, or `I have heard', when you did not hear anything, or `I know', when you do not know, for Allah will ask you about all of that.'' In conclusion, what they said means that Allah forbids speaking without knowledge and only on the basis of suspicion, which is mere imagination and illusions. As Allah says:
...
[كُلُّ أُولـئِكَ]
(each of those ones) means these faculties, hearing, sight and the heart, |
Now regarding the wishfull thinking in your post: why didn't allah use the nasiyah/forelock/forehead in the 17:36 verse and all the 50 others, if according to you:
| Sona wrote: |
the Qu'ran does point out in one verse that our actions are based in the brain.
Qu'ran 96:15-16 No! If he does not stop, We will take him by the "naseyah" (front of the head/forelock), a lying, sinful "naseyah" (front of the head/forelock)! |
Why should over 50 verses of the Quran which reinforce the wrong understanding of the function of the heart be discounted as 'allegory' and all reliance be put on this verse that is wrong, as I will show later, about what the function of the front part of the skull is for?
Stop dreaming: allah told you 50 times that the thinking is from the heart, word for word and you don't believe him and say it is from the brain, and when he spoke of forelock and forehead, you want to change these words to cerebrum! Well you are putting words in allah's mouth again: he didn't use cerebrum nor brain, deal with it! That is, submit and live in the 7th century or acknowledge the truth and join mankind in the 21st century.
I think you don't submit to allah so well! You are quite adding and changing divine words as you wish, isn't it Sona?
More you know about the koran, harder it is to believe it is from an omnipotent and omniscient god. More you know about mohamed, harder it is to believe he is a good man, moreover a prophet. More you know about islam, harder it is to believe it is for all mankind, all time and all places. I am sorry, honestly.
From the numerous verses and ahadith I read for this post, I can say that nasiyah means forelock, you know the lock of hair above the eyes, although it could denote the forehead. From the common tafsirs I read, nasfa3anna bilnaseyah means one of two things:
1) We shall drag him by the forelocks, or
2) We shall blacken his face [with hellfire].
Since the forelocks/forehead is at the front of the face it seemed to suffice to say nasiyah.
Here are some forelocks for you:
http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/fundamentals/hadithsunnah/muslim/020.smt.html#020.4614
| Quote: |
| I saw that the Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) was twisting the forelock of a horse with his fingers and he was saying: (A great) benefit. i. e. reward (for rearing them for Jihad) and spoils of war, has been tied to the forelocks of horses until the Day of Judgment. |
So do you think Jarir saw mohamed twisting his horse's cerebrum with his fingers?
Here is a nice cerebrum to twist:
http://www.castlefjords.com/images/forelock.jpg
http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/fundamentals/hadithsunnah/muslim/035.smt.html#035.6551
| Quote: |
| Abu Huraira reported that Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) used to command us that as we go to our beds, we should utter the words (as mention- ed above) and he also said (these words):" From the evil of every animal, Thou hast hold upon its forelock (Thou hast full control over it)." |
Today cerebrums are braided, harder to grab...
http://www.exhibitorlabs.com/article_02d.cfm
 ... ...
And not to forget to catch your women and slaves by the cerebrums like you do to your animals:
http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/fundamentals/hadithsunnah/muwatta/028.mmt.html#028.28.22.52
| Quote: |
| Yahya related to me from Malik from Zayd ibn Aslam that the Messenger of Allah, may Allah bless him and grant him peace, said, "When you marry a woman or buy a slave-girl, take her by the forelock and ask for baraka... |
(Wanna catch the cerebrum of Beyonce and control her?)
http://img65.imageshack.us/img65/8004/forelock028vz.jpg
http://img386.imageshack.us/img386/3493/forelock049mg.jpg
http://img146.imageshack.us/img146/7842/forelock076cy.jpg
 ... ...
Here is the place of the forelock, err... cerebrum sorry:
http://www.bernsteinmedical.com/resources/FollicularUnitHairTransplantation2005.pdf
| Quote: |
| Fig. 34.20 Schematic of “forward weighting,” achieved by close placement of recipient sites dark grey area), and central density, accomplished by placing larger follicular units in the forelock area (dark brown oval). |
And here is the legendary koranic lying forelock, err... cerebrum: this cute gentleman wasn't happy with his small cerebrum, so he went to the kafirs who made his cerebrum bigger, so big that mohamed (if he wasn't dead) could twist with his finger this cerebrum too like he did with his horse's!
This is a lying sinful nasiya, when you don't like the way your cerebrum looks and you opt to "buy" a new one, therefore a lying one:
| Quote: |
| Fig. 34.27 A) Pre-op, Norwood Class V. B) Integrating hair with a persistent frontal forelock (one year following two sessions of 2133 and 1,171 follicular unit grafts.) |
The forelock is "A lock of hair that grows from or falls on the forehead". In France, when a child doesn't want to do something or did something wrong, some parents are holding him/her from the lobe and part of the ear. I presume in 7th century Arabia, parents were holding the forelock or they do too hold the ear but because allah is in the space, it is easier for him to straight his arm and catch the forelock than the ear. allah didn't know any bold people? Well, he didn't know about the 6 month night of the northern lands either...
And if it is the blackening of the forehead mohamed may have took the idea from ancient customs of blackening the face with ashes, like in Africa or India:
 ...
So it is not about the cerebrum but the forehead or forelock, muslims have said so for 1430 years until as i said some smart-aces tried to sell their pseudo-science of the koran. Seriously, do you think the numerous other verses with nasiya are talking about the cerebrum? Do you think it is possible to lead horses, women or slaves, by catching them by their cerebrums? Or blacken cerebrums? leaving them alive?
And about the rest of your post, I am sorry where is the link? If I remember well you said in your laws it is forbiden to quote without a link, you also said it is forbiden to edit a post after one hour passed but you edited one of your post in this page. Dont worry I won't jump and cry victory like you did when I was 3 hours late.
Is it from here:
http://www.thetruecall.com/home/modules.php?name=News&file=print&sid=95
or here:
http://www.islam4theworld.com/quran/quran&science/brain.htm
Here?
http://www.cometoislam.com/science/movements.htm
and so on...
Those are not really links to the quotes in question, are they? There are some 250 yahoo search results for those quotes and guess what: there are all from islamic sites!!! I don't say this guy or this book or these quotes don't exist, just funny that only islamic sites are discussing from the whole book, only these 2 small sentences.
That are pretty vague anyway: let's reread the first quote "The motivation and the foresight to plan and initiate movements occur in the anterior portion". This is pretty much a lot of things, not only lying and more importantly not only negative things! The second quote is as general: "the prefrontal area is also thought to be the functional center for aggression". Those quotes are not really about lying but additionally, they are not really supporting your point: If I say my right hand can do many things and later I say my right hand can also play the drum, this doesn't mean my right hand can only play the drum.
What about this prefrontal area in people whose nasiya is not lying? There are plenty of verses as I shown above where the forelock is not said to be lying, why suddenly you and all the other muslims in those sites, are connecting lying with forelock? Is it because conveniently there are 96:15-16 talking about the lying and sinful forelock of the poor Abu Jahl, the uncle that muhammed hated with a passion, and about who allah weirdly choose to write in his last and final guide for all mankind, all time and all places, and conveniently some muslims found this book that says the aggression is from the prefrontal area?
Anyway your prefrontal area is not really the only place in the brain dedicated to lying, you should have check more up to date publications:
http://www.wired.com/wired/archive/14.01/lying_pr.html
| Quote: |
"This is a very, very clear single-case experiment," she says. In both sets of images, the areas of my cortex devoted to language lit up during my inner monologues. But there is more activity on the deception scans, as if my mind had to work harder to generate the fictitious narrative. Crucially, the areas of my brain associated with emotion, conflict, and cognitive control - the amygdala, rostral cingulate, caudate, and thalamus - were "hot" when I was lying but "cold" when I was telling the truth.
"The caudate is your inner editor, helping you manage the conflict between telling the truth and creating the lie," Hirsch explains. "Look here - when you're telling the truth, this area is asleep. But when you're trying to deceive, the signals are loud and clear." |
Please, do a search on the caudate and amygdala, to see that they are nowhere near the forehead but more near the back closer to where the neck meets the head, and so if Allah knew he should have been grabbing the back of the head near the neck to indicate lying.
http://www.newscientist.com/article.ns?id=dn1543
| Quote: |
Brain scans can reveal whether someone is lying or telling the truth, US researchers have discovered. When people lied, fMRI (functional magnetic resonance imaging) scans revealed significant increases in activity in several brain regions.
...
When there was a match, and the person was lying, activity in several regions increased. This included the anterior cinglate, which is associated with response inhibition and error monitoring, and the adjacent right superior frontal gyrus, which plays a key role in attention.
...
"The fact that deception requires extra work in a number of brain regions may indicate that the deception involves inhibition of the 'default' response - truth," adds Langleben. "Interestingly, this agrees with the traditional definition of deception dating back to Saint Augustine: 'Deception is denial of truth'." |
Saint-Au-gus-tine, not Saint mohamed! What did mohamed say that was new and beautiful?
If you are still not sure about the function of the brain as per islam, look what educated muslims are writting, replacing the brain with the heart, accordingly to the koran:
http://www.alkalima.com/?page=Archives&vol=8&issue=2&id=103
| Quote: |
Allah (swt) says, “Truly, it has been sent down by the Lord of all the worlds; the Trustworthy spirit has alighted with it upon your qalb (heart) [O Prophet]” (26:192-194). The Qur’an refers to the qalb not just as a muscle in one’s body, but rather as the center of all feelings, emotions, motives, drives, aspirations, remembrance, and attention. The qalb is referred to many times—“It is the hearts which soften” (39:23), or “harden and become stony” (2:74). The heart’s function is to reason and to understand; similarly, the roots of all outward diseases and inner ills lie within the heart as well.
...
Therefore, it is no surprise that it is the heart which is held accountable on the Day of Judgment. |
_________________
Vaccinate yourself against islam: read the koran!
Orenda: islam orders women to hide themselves so rapists won't be tempted to harass them, it is as stupid as to ask colored people to hide themselves so racists won't be tempted to harass them |
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Anna Doe
Joined: 25 Dec 2005
Posts: 2745
Location: Somewhere on the spheric kafir earth, vaccinating people against islam
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| Posted: Mon Oct 01, 2007 6:44 am Post subject: |
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Hi Sona, I hope you are fine.
Today it is 4 months since I posted my refutal to your first post in our second topic.
It seems you cannot refute my post and I think it means that your imam couldn't refute it. This is no wonder as allah indeed didn't know what is the brain. Peace has a strange definition in islam, omniscience (all-knowing) too LOL
But I am willing to wait a little more, please beg for someone else's help and try to post something. Surely you can find a muslim that can help allah out.  No, not by striking my neck, by bringing arguments to the issue  .
Or let's begin our last topic. As you can see, I have less time in my hands lately. It is obvious that the time allocation rule didn't work so well in our debate, from both our side. You will have to please excuse me but it is possible I won't be able to post that quick in the future as well, I will need a little more than one week, ok? Specially that to make the first post in the next and last topic that you chose, "Does the Qu'ran promote killing or not", I will have to reread the koran LOL, you know this is energy consuming, so much non-sense and violence... I wish you will read it too. Maybe for the first time?
So tell me if you want to post a rebuttal to my previous post or if you want to post first in our next topic or you prefer I do this, thank you. I know you have not been here for a while, but I wait, I know you will be back...
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I think our Sona got married!
Mabrouk!
I hope you love each others and will respect each others and will be happy together for the rest of your lives.
_________________
Vaccinate yourself against islam: read the koran!
Orenda: islam orders women to hide themselves so rapists won't be tempted to harass them, it is as stupid as to ask colored people to hide themselves so racists won't be tempted to harass them |
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Anna Doe
Joined: 25 Dec 2005
Posts: 2745
Location: Somewhere on the spheric kafir earth, vaccinating people against islam
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| Posted: Wed Dec 26, 2007 6:22 am Post subject: |
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I received a PM of Sona, he asked me to post it here.
Take it easy Sona, I am happy for you guys and i hope you are building yourselves a strong and cozy nest, with respect and love.
| Sona2 wrote: |
Hi, Anna I know its been a while since I last posted. Well the reason for this is that, I was too busy getting married. And now I don't get much time alone as the wife wants to spend time with me, and also she is not too fond of me surfing the internet all day, as sometimes I neglected my salaat.
You state:
| Anna Doe wrote: |
| It seems you cannot refute my post and I think it means that your imam couldn't refute it. This is no wonder as allah indeed didn't know what is the brain. Peace has a strange definition in islam, omniscience (all-knowing) too LOL |
How could you know about my perspective only I can know about my perspective, only I know how much I like you or how much hate I conceal for your kafir kind. You cannot know what I conceal in my heart. So do you understand? when someone hurts you or when god disappoints you - you get pain in your heart! why if I tell an old man bad news, he could die of a heart-attack? are our feelings an emotions felt in the brain or in the heart? do you feel love in your brain or in your heart? Of course Allah knew what the brain was - the quran is a book of signs not a book of neurosciences. If Allah started talking about complex theories no one would have understood.
| Anna Doe wrote: |
| But I am willing to wait a little more, please beg for someone else's help and try to post something. Surely you can find a muslim that can help allah out. No, not by striking my neck, by bringing arguments to the issue |
This debate has not finished - I just find it boring, hence why I can't be asked posting all the time, and also ali sina dosen't pay me. and moreover there is more exictment in the wife. I must admit though you're good, you did put doubt into my mind. Its only becouse I look at you like a mother figure, then sometimes I forget you're a kafir. At the end of the day you are not good for me.
| Anna Doe wrote: |
Or let's begin our last topic. As you can see, I have less time in my hands lately. It is obvious that the time allocation rule didn't work so well in our debate, from both our side. You will have to please excuse me but it is possible I won't be able to post that quick in the future as well, I will need a little more than one week, ok? Specially that to make the first post in the next and last topic that you chose, "Does the Qu'ran promote killing or not", I will have to reread the koran LOL, you know this is energy consuming, so much non-sense and violence... I wish you will read it too. Maybe for the first time?
So tell me if you want to post a rebuttal to my previous post or if you want to post first in our next topic or you prefer I do this, thank you. I know you have not been here for a while, but I wait, I know you will be back...
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OK we will start this topic, the problem with me is, my work area is untidy which makes my productivity, lack. I used to have a nice work area, with all my books, links etc. Now my wife has slowly been replacing my books with Islamic books. I even grown a beard, she likes it.
you can post next in our next topic. I just refuse to post in this forum directly anymore. I promised my wife to stay away from here.
maybe you can talk to her sometime, she wanted to talk to you. But i am not too sure, as sometimes I made a fool of myself and she will see the posts. my wife is better in Islam then me.
| Anna Doe wrote: |
I think our Sona got married!
Mabrouk!
I hope you love each others and will respect each others and will be happy together for the rest of your lives.
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lol everyone says this to me. Yes i did get married not that anyone on ffi will believe me. thenks anyway your being nice to me.
I don't know about the love thing though. women are diffrent when your married to them, they always say we don't think about them.
p.s you can post this in the thread and make this pm public. Oh yeah and say Hi to that femanist sani, and sahara. |
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Vaccinate yourself against islam: read the koran!
Orenda: islam orders women to hide themselves so rapists won't be tempted to harass them, it is as stupid as to ask colored people to hide themselves so racists won't be tempted to harass them |
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truth seeker
Joined: 26 Dec 2005
Posts: 1386
Location: NYC, USA
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| Posted: Thu Dec 27, 2007 4:41 am Post subject: |
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I wish you happiness in your life with your loved one Sona.
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"Fools call us hate mongers. They will be ashamed of themselves when we hoist the standard of victory in every land and victory is around the corner."
- Ali Sina
Moe Akbar! |
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