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| Why does Allah mandate this Requirement? |
| Women are Liars, so the other is there to make sure she is truthful |
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5% |
[ 2 ] |
| Women have a Naturally Bad Memory, so the second Woman is there to remind the First |
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17% |
[ 7 ] |
| Women are Deficient in Intelligence thus Allah is saying they are too inferior to be equal to a man |
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51% |
[ 20 ] |
| Women are Deficient in Intelligence, but this does not make them inferior to men |
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7% |
[ 3 ] |
| Other (please elaborate) |
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17% |
[ 7 ] |
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| Total Votes : 39 |
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Message |
miss ruby
Joined: 17 Jan 2006
Posts: 6411
Location: Britain
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 Posted: Fri Jan 19, 2007 1:57 pm Post subject: |
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| Sanitarium wrote: |
| Karngga wrote: |
Hi Sani, you said -
Thank you so much for your thoughts, Karngga; and welcome to FFI!
I've actually been here for some time but some of my very early posts don't seem to show up or my original joining date. Mostly I have just sat back and read things others have said, but lately I've started posting. I got to the stage where I can no longer accept the tissue of lies and misinformation being promulgated by so many muslims that I just had to start putting my 2 cents worth in. |
FINALLY! hehehe So glad you're here. I know what you mean; I feel like smacking my head against a wall when I see the same lies being repeated by Muslims.
-Sani |
NO!!!!!  Sani, our Warrior please do not resort to this barbaric solution. We need you!!!!!  |
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mahiwal
Joined: 12 Nov 2006
Posts: 1087
Location: Miami, FL
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| Posted: Fri Jan 19, 2007 2:07 pm Post subject: |
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| miss ruby wrote: |
| Sanitarium wrote: |
| Karngga wrote: |
Hi Sani, you said -
Thank you so much for your thoughts, Karngga; and welcome to FFI!
I've actually been here for some time but some of my very early posts don't seem to show up or my original joining date. Mostly I have just sat back and read things others have said, but lately I've started posting. I got to the stage where I can no longer accept the tissue of lies and misinformation being promulgated by so many muslims that I just had to start putting my 2 cents worth in. |
FINALLY! hehehe So glad you're here. I know what you mean; I feel like smacking my head against a wall when I see the same lies being repeated by Muslims.
-Sani |
NO!!!!! Sani, our Warrior please do not resort to this barbaric solution. We need you!!!!! |
Is She some kind of a barbaric warrior princess? |
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MsWesterner
Joined: 11 Nov 2006
Posts: 11888
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| Posted: Fri Jan 19, 2007 3:21 pm Post subject: |
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She may well be a warrior princess Mahiwal, and definitely superior to you.....
but barbaric, "no"
she doesn't say that stoning, amputations, beheadings, depravity, pedophilia, domestic violence and cold blooded murder are just fine with her. She abbhors such barbarity and ignorance.
It is "you" mahiwal that supports such barbarity!!!
So I can surely call you barbaric, but a prince....No way! I see you as just a weak muslim trying to defend the indefensible, but coming unstuck. We see your islam for what it is....and it disgusts.
as for being true.....remember mahiwal "you were never ever a blood clot" |
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mahiwal
Joined: 12 Nov 2006
Posts: 1087
Location: Miami, FL
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| Posted: Fri Jan 19, 2007 3:45 pm Post subject: |
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| MsWesterner wrote: |
She may well be a warrior princess Mahiwal, and definitely superior to you.....
but barbaric, "no"
she doesn't say that stoning, amputations, beheadings, depravity, pedophilia, domestic violence and cold blooded murder are just fine with her. She abbhors such barbarity and ignorance.
It is "you" mahiwal that supports such barbarity!!!
So I can surely call you barbaric, but a prince....No way! I see you as just a weak muslim trying to defend the indefensible, but coming unstuck. We see your islam for what it is....and it disgusts.
as for being true.....remember mahiwal "you were never ever a blood clot" |
I am a prince, i have Royal Blood running in my veins! |
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MsWesterner
Joined: 11 Nov 2006
Posts: 11888
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| Posted: Fri Jan 19, 2007 3:58 pm Post subject: |
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royal blood eh!! lol.....tell someone who is impressed, and it surely is not me. Far from it in fact.
and what is royal blood mahiwal??? what does it give you?
It surely has not given you intelligence, values or integrity. It hasnt even given you the ability to question or think for yourself. You are still trapped and oppressed as a muslim!!! Trapped with your own irrational and extremely illogical "fears".
Sad that people can be so brainwashed with such ridiculous nonsense.
But disgusting that these same people can harm and inflict misery on millions of innocents just because of this same brainwashing.
"you were never ever a blood clot" mahiwal |
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mahiwal
Joined: 12 Nov 2006
Posts: 1087
Location: Miami, FL
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| Posted: Fri Jan 19, 2007 4:13 pm Post subject: |
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| MsWesterner wrote: |
royal blood eh!! lol.....tell someone who is impressed, and it surely is not me. Far from it in fact.
and what is royal blood mahiwal??? what does it give you?
It surely has not given you intelligence, values or integrity. It hasnt even given you the ability to question or think for yourself. You are still trapped and oppressed as a muslim!!! Trapped with your own irrational and extremely illogical "fears".
Sad that people can be so brainwashed with such ridiculous nonsense.
But disgusting that these same people can harm and inflict misery on millions of innocents just because of this same brainwashing.
"you were never ever a blood clot" mahiwal |
No Kidding, i DO have royal blood running in my veins, please be impressed with me! |
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Just a woman
Joined: 06 Jan 2007
Posts: 731
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| Posted: Fri Jan 19, 2007 6:07 pm Post subject: |
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| MsWesterner wrote: |
get real just a woman.....your teachings are that you as a woman are inferior and deficient and they use such words!!!
and they also say that because you are inferior and have to obey without question these "pathetic weak muslim males" that others have the right to beat you!!
get real just a woman.....women are treated like crap!!!
it happened to you even....but you know conveniently forget that. |
I was treated that way by racist men not by upright Muslims.
_________________
The wolves sent an embassy to the sheep saying, "lets make peace, Those dogs that you keep are the problem."
The silly sheep listened, and became an easy prey to their treacherous enemy. The FFI wolves |
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Just a woman
Joined: 06 Jan 2007
Posts: 731
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| Posted: Fri Jan 19, 2007 6:12 pm Post subject: |
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| MsWesterner wrote: |
She may well be a warrior princess Mahiwal, and definitely superior to you.....
but barbaric, "no"
she doesn't say that stoning, amputations, beheadings, depravity, pedophilia, domestic violence and cold blooded murder are just fine with her. She abbhors such barbarity and ignorance.
It is "you" mahiwal that supports such barbarity!!!
So I can surely call you barbaric, but a prince....No way! I see you as just a weak muslim trying to defend the indefensible, but coming unstuck. We see your islam for what it is....and it disgusts.
as for being true.....remember mahiwal "you were never ever a blood clot" |
Quran never said he was a blood clot. You should study more so you know what the word means.
_________________
The wolves sent an embassy to the sheep saying, "lets make peace, Those dogs that you keep are the problem."
The silly sheep listened, and became an easy prey to their treacherous enemy. The FFI wolves |
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miss ruby
Joined: 17 Jan 2006
Posts: 6411
Location: Britain
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| Posted: Fri Jan 19, 2007 6:52 pm Post subject: |
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| mahiwal wrote: |
| miss ruby wrote: |
| Sanitarium wrote: |
| Karngga wrote: |
Hi Sani, you said -
Thank you so much for your thoughts, Karngga; and welcome to FFI!
I've actually been here for some time but some of my very early posts don't seem to show up or my original joining date. Mostly I have just sat back and read things others have said, but lately I've started posting. I got to the stage where I can no longer accept the tissue of lies and misinformation being promulgated by so many muslims that I just had to start putting my 2 cents worth in. |
FINALLY! hehehe So glad you're here. I know what you mean; I feel like smacking my head against a wall when I see the same lies being repeated by Muslims.
-Sani |
NO!!!!! Sani, our Warrior please do not resort to this barbaric solution. We need you!!!!! |
Is She some kind of a barbaric warrior princess? |
 Are you smoking something?. I was being melodramatic there, so no need to use this as a basis for a retort.
Anyway, sorry for the interruption, do continue. |
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Just a woman
Joined: 06 Jan 2007
Posts: 731
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| Posted: Fri Jan 19, 2007 7:31 pm Post subject: |
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| MsWesterner wrote: |
get real just a woman.....your teachings are that you as a woman are inferior and deficient and they use such words!!!
and they also say that because you are inferior and have to obey without question these "pathetic weak muslim males" that others have the right to beat you!!
get real just a woman.....women are treated like crap!!!
it happened to you even....but you know conveniently forget that. |
Yes it says that woman have a deficiency but it does not say that they are less capable of intellectual tasks. The Quran also mentions that men have deficiencies, like they are hasty, doubtful, impatient, greedy, and require constant effort to stay on the right path of Islam.
Also as people we know that we are not perfect, we have deficiencies, mentally and physically. So it should be no surprise or viewed as unjust when deficiencies are mentioned in Quran. Men and women both have deficiencies that are mentioned in the Quran.
The Prophet himself made mistakes, forgot, and was not perfect. So this mentioning of women inferiority is strange, bias, and not consistent with the overall message of equality in Islam. This is the point of view of a people, not the scripture.
_________________
The wolves sent an embassy to the sheep saying, "lets make peace, Those dogs that you keep are the problem."
The silly sheep listened, and became an easy prey to their treacherous enemy. The FFI wolves |
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Brave Steed
Joined: 21 Nov 2004
Posts: 3285
Location: Here, like you.
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| Posted: Fri Jan 19, 2007 7:42 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
| Once the Messenger of God went out to a prayer place to offer the prayer of Greater Bairam or Lesser Bairam. He passed by the women and said, "O women! Give alms, as I have seen that the majority of the dwellers of Hell- fire were you [women]." They asked, "Why is it so, Messenger of God?" He replied, "You curse frequently and are ungrateful to your husbands. I have not seen anyone more deficient in intelligence and religion than you. A cautious sensible man could be led astray by some of you." The women asked, "What is deficient in our intelligence and religion, Messenger of God?" He answered, "Is not the evidence of two women equal to the witness of one man?" They replied in the affirmative. He said, "This is the deficiency in your intelligence. Isn't it true that a woman can neither pray nor fast during her menses?" The women replied in the affirmative. "This is the deficiency in her religion," he said. |
Original sources: al-Bukhari, Haidh 6; Muslim, Iman 132; Abu Dawud, Sunna 15; al-Tirmidsi, Iman 6; Ibn Maja, Fitan 19; Ahmad Ibn Hanbal 2: 67, found at http://www.light-of-life.com/eng/reveal/r5405et5.htm
Steed
_________________
Find the daughter killer Yassir Said
</islam> |
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Just a woman
Joined: 06 Jan 2007
Posts: 731
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| Posted: Fri Jan 19, 2007 8:08 pm Post subject: |
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| Brave Steed wrote: |
| Quote: |
| Once the Messenger of God went out to a prayer place to offer the prayer of Greater Bairam or Lesser Bairam. He passed by the women and said, "O women! Give alms, as I have seen that the majority of the dwellers of Hell- fire were you [women]." They asked, "Why is it so, Messenger of God?" He replied, "You curse frequently and are ungrateful to your husbands. I have not seen anyone more deficient in intelligence and religion than you. A cautious sensible man could be led astray by some of you." The women asked, "What is deficient in our intelligence and religion, Messenger of God?" He answered, "Is not the evidence of two women equal to the witness of one man?" They replied in the affirmative. He said, "This is the deficiency in your intelligence. Isn't it true that a woman can neither pray nor fast during her menses?" The women replied in the affirmative. "This is the deficiency in her religion," he said. |
Original sources: al-Bukhari, Haidh 6; Muslim, Iman 132; Abu Dawud, Sunna 15; al-Tirmidsi, Iman 6; Ibn Maja, Fitan 19; Ahmad Ibn Hanbal 2: 67, found at http://www.light-of-life.com/eng/reveal/r5405et5.htm
Steed |
The page that link is to is exactly what I mean by misinterpretation.
_________________
The wolves sent an embassy to the sheep saying, "lets make peace, Those dogs that you keep are the problem."
The silly sheep listened, and became an easy prey to their treacherous enemy. The FFI wolves |
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Brave Steed
Joined: 21 Nov 2004
Posts: 3285
Location: Here, like you.
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| Posted: Fri Jan 19, 2007 8:23 pm Post subject: |
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How would you translate those same words, Woman? I presume you think that the words I copied and pasted are a mistranslation (with misinterpretation implied).
If you were looking at the chapter that I lifted the quotation from, forget about it. I wasn't even reading it. What I had searched for was the story of how the profiteer (pigs barf upon him) saw some female members of his cult, demanded money of them, and then used humiliation tactics to get it. I found it. I could have found it from any source. Light-Of-Life.com means nothing to me.
Maybe you or someone else can find the same hadith translated into English from some wahabbist site, or whatever? I don't care. I think the point is clear and needs no elaboration; the profiteer was a greedy, nasty repulsive bully to these women and they had little choice but to go along with what he said because they knew if they didn't they probably would be killed. But that's just my opinion.
Steed
_________________
Find the daughter killer Yassir Said
</islam> |
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MsWesterner
Joined: 11 Nov 2006
Posts: 11888
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| Posted: Sat Jan 20, 2007 12:04 am Post subject: |
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Just a woman......please don't lie, as it does say you were a blood clot.
For goodness sake woman, this is exactly why you have been arguing non stop with people on here, including a doctor, and you have been trying to "make out" that a foetus is a blood clot.
You've turned yourself inself out with all sorts of nonsense to try and portray it as a blood clot.
Why, if it doesn't say in the koran.....but it does, and as I told you that is what people thought at the time. |
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MsWesterner
Joined: 11 Nov 2006
Posts: 11888
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| Posted: Sat Jan 20, 2007 12:09 am Post subject: |
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and you kid yourself by saying the males who did intentionally harm you were not "upright" muslim males - but THEY WERE MUSLIM MALES weren't they!!
And what is provable is that millions of muslim males are far from upright - and what is very provable is that your koran (that you are trying to defend without success) teaches all males that you are "deficient" and that you are of so little value, and they can beat you and oppress you. So they did...those males only did to you what they were taught, and you as a woman accept the koran as being ok because you too have been "taught" that you are deficient and that it must be true because the comic book says so!!! How mind boggling.
wake up just a woman.....you are trying to defend the grossly perverse indefensible. |
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