Spirituality -A garden of wisdom. Jiddu Krishnamurti

The Cat · Joined: 23 Apr 2005 Posts: 4357

The Dalai-Lama arriving in Bodh Gaya...

Strong parallels between all wisdom teachers are easy to establish: from Lao Tse to Jesus-Christ; from Thiruvalluvar to Vivekananda, or from Buddha to Krishnamurti. On the later an interesting site:
http://www.buddhanet.net/bvk_study/bvk002.htm

In my very first post, talking about Krishnamurti, I wrote: ''I discovered him with the 'Only Revolution' and ever since he has been like a spiritual lighthouse for me, NOT A GURU. I see him as a Grand Teacher of humility, the kind of humility this world is in tragic need of. (...) Though this thread will be centered around Krishaji (his diminutive), its purpose really is to bring a thread on spirituality and wisdom, so more general adding are most welcome in order to make this thread A GARDEN OF WISDOM (-for everyone to find comfort in-), as its title wants, but spirituality as apart from any organized religion, which many threads already take care of.''

In my files I found: Krishnamurti ''On Religiosity'' that I left over a long while, because of little font problems I had to resolve first, which I just did. It's from the same site I usually quote from: http://www.jkrishnamurti.org/ -but from last year. Now, checking the site today, I've just seen that they have a one year rotation, since these posts happened to be repeated!

In between, I'll bring some more Buddha's quotations and related pics, I collected for this serie...

''Look within, thou art the Buddha.''

Among the earliest statue of Buddha, now found in the Delhi Museum.

To my surprise, I've just learned that the earliest buddha's depictures came many centuries after his death and that they first occured in the Kabul Valley of Gandhara, about the same time when king Asoka (~273/~232) began to rule. Even more surprizing is the fact that these first statues had a distinctive Greco-Roman shape, as Siddharta is depicted wearing a roman-style toga!

I took this information from a -huge- site about Zen Buddhism, I've just discovered:
http://www.thezensite.com/zenessays.html
http://www.thezensite.com/BuddhistPhotos/buddhaTrail/BuddhaTrail.html
_________________
Authority has the same etymological root as authenticity.

The Cat · Joined: 23 Apr 2005 Posts: 4357

Naturally, many posts already exist therein dealing with some chapters of thought from Krishnamurti:
On Love (p.2); On Death (p.6); On Desire (p.9); On the Self (p.19); On Sex, Desire and Love (p.27); On Fear (p.30); Quoting Krishnamurti (p.32); On Time (p.34); On Awareness (p.35); On Anger and Sorrow (p.40); On the Mind (p.43) and the recent Thinking November (p.47). Should I repeat that a summary of all pages (I often use it) and links to every 5 pages are found ending page 1? ... Well, I just did!

Jiddu Krishnamurti: On Being Religious (1).
http://www.jkrishnamurti.org/

8 December 2005 (repeated in Dec.2006):
"A religious man does not seek God. The religious man is concerned with the transformation of society, which is himself. The religious man is not the man that does innumerable rituals, follows traditions, lives in a dead, past culture, explaining endlessly the Gita or the Bible, endlessly chanting, or taking sannyasa that is not a religious man; such a man is escaping from facts.

The religious man is concerned totally and completely with the understanding of society, which is himself. He is not separate from society. Bringing about in himself a complete, total mutation means complete cessation of greed, envy, ambition; and therefore he is not dependent on circumstances, though he is the result of circumstances: the food he eats, the books he reads, the cinemas he goes to, the religious dogmas, beliefs, rituals, and all that business. He is responsible, and therefore the religious man must understand himself, who is the product of society that he himself has created.

Therefore, to find reality he must begin here, not in a temple, not in an image, whether the image is graven by the hand or by the mind. Otherwise, how can he find something totally new, a new state?"

9th December 2005.
"Can we discover for ourselves what the religious mind is? The scientist in his laboratory is really a scientist; he is not persuaded by his nationalism, by his fears, by his vanities, ambitions, and local demands; there, he is merely investigating. But outside the laboratory, he is like anybody else with his prejudices, with his ambitions, with his nationality, with his vanities, with his jealousies, and all the rest of it. Such a mind cannot approach the religious mind.

The religious mind does not function from a center of authority, whether it is accumulated knowledge as tradition, or it is experience, which is really the continuation of tradition, the continuation of conditioning. The religious spirit does not think in terms of time, the immediate results, the immediate reformation within the pattern of society. ...We said the religious mind is not a ritualistic mind; it does not belong to any church, to any group, to any pattern of thinking.

The religious mind is the mind that has entered into the unknown, and you cannot come to the unknown except by jumping; you cannot carefully calculate and enter the unknown. The religious mind is the real revolutionary mind, and the revolutionary mind is not a reaction to what has been. The religious mind is really explosive, creative; not in the accepted sense of the word creative, as in a poem, decoration, or building, as in architecture, music, poetry, and all the rest of it. It’s in a state of creation."

12th December 2005.
"Religion as we generally know it is a series of beliefs, of dogmas, of rituals, of superstitions, of worship of idols, of charms and gurus that will lead you to what you want as an ultimate goal.

The ultimate truth is your projection, that is what you want, which will make you happy, which will give a certainty of the deathless state. So the mind caught in all this creates a religion, a religion of dogmas, of priest-craft, of superstitions and idol-worship. And in that, you are caught, and the mind stagnates. Is that religion? Is religion a matter of belief, a matter of knowledge of other people's experiences and assertions? Or is religion merely the following of morality?

You know it is comparatively easy to be moral to do this and not to do that. Because it is easy, you can imitate a moral system. Behind that morality, lurks the self, growing, expanding, aggressive, dominating. But is that religion?

You have to find out what truth is because that is the only thing that matters, not whether you are rich or poor, not whether you are happily married and have children, because they all come to an end, there is always death. So, without any form of belief, you must find out; you must have the vigour, the self-reliance, the initiative, so that for yourself you know what truth is, what God is. Belief will not give you anything; belief only corrupts, binds, darkens. The mind can only be free through vigour, through self-reliance."

13th December 2005.
"The question is: Is there not truth in religions, in theories, in ideals, in beliefs? Let us examine. What do we mean by religion? Surely, not organized religion, not Hinduism, Buddhism, or Christianity which are all organized beliefs with their propaganda, conversion, proselytism, compulsion, and so on.

Is there any truth in organized religion? It may engulf, enmesh truth, but the organized religion itself is not true. Therefore, organized religion is false, it separates man from man. You are a Muslim, I am a Hindu, another is a Christian or a Buddhist and we are wrangling, butchering each other. Is there any truth in that?

We are not discussing religion as the pursuit of truth, but we are considering if there is any truth in organized religion. We are so conditioned by organized religion to think there is truth in it that we have come to believe that by calling oneself a Hindu, one is somebody, or one will find God. How absurd, sir; to find God, to find reality, there must be virtue.

Virtue is freedom, and only through freedom can truth be discovered not when you are caught in the hands of organized religion, with its beliefs. And is there any truth in theories, in ideals, in beliefs? Why do you have beliefs? Obviously, because beliefs give you security, comfort, safety, a guide. In yourself you are frightened, you want to be protected, you want to lean on somebody, and therefore, you create the ideal, which prevents you from understanding that which is. Therefore, an ideal becomes a hindrance to action."
_________________
Authority has the same etymological root as authenticity.

The Cat · Joined: 23 Apr 2005 Posts: 4357

--Be ye lamps unto yourselves, be a refuge to yourselves. Hold fast to Truth as a lamp; hold fast to the truth as a refuge. Look not for a refuge in anyone beside yourselves. And those, who shall be a lamp unto themselves, shall betake themselves to no external refuge, but holding fast to the Truth as their lamp, and holding fast to the Truth as their refuge, they shall reach the topmost height (Buddha).

---Meditation brings about wisdom; lack of it leaves ignorance;
---Know well what leads you forward and what hold you back...

_________________
Authority has the same etymological root as authenticity.

The Cat · Joined: 23 Apr 2005 Posts: 4357

Krishnamurti: On Being Religious. (2)

15th December 2005.
"What is happening in the world? You have a Christian God, Hindu Gods, Mohammedans with their particular conception of God, each little sect with their particular truth; and all these truths are becoming like so many diseases in the world, separating people. These truths, in the hands of the few, are becoming the means of exploitation.

You go to each, one after the other, tasting them all, because you begin to lose all sense of discrimination, because you are suffering and you want a remedy, and you accept any remedy that is offered by any sect, whether Christian, Hindu, or any other sect. So, what is happening? Your gods are dividing you, your beliefs in God are dividing you and yet you talk about the brotherhood of man, unity in God, and at the same time deny the very thing that you want to find out, because you cling to these beliefs as the most potent means of destroying limitation, whereas they but intensify it. These things are so obvious."

16th December 2005.
"Do you know what religion is? It is not the chant, it is not in the performance of puja, or any other ritual, it is not in the worship of tin gods or stone images, it is not in the temples and churches, it is not in the reading of the Bible or the Gita, it is not in the repeating of a sacred name or in the following of some other superstition invented by men. None of this is religion.

Religion is the feeling of goodness, that love which is like the river, living, moving everlastingly. In that state you will find there comes a moment when there is no longer any search at all; and this ending of search is the beginning of something totally different.

The search for God, for truth, the feeling of being completely good -not the cultivation of goodness, of humility-, but the seeking out of something beyond the inventions and tricks of the mind, which means having a feeling for that something, living in it, being it -that is true religion.

But you can do that only when you leave the pool you have dug for yourself and go out into the river of life. Then life has an astonishing way of taking care of you, because then there is no taking care on your part. Life carries you where it will because you are part of it; then there is no problem of security, of what people say or don't say, and that is the beauty of life."

-----------------------------------------------
I was talking about the obvious many parallels between sages, here is one of them:
Matthew 6.24-34: "No one can serve two masters; for either he will hate the one and love the other, or he will be devoted to the one and despise the other. You cannot serve God and mammon. Therefore I tell you, do not be anxious about your life, what you shall eat or what you shall drink, nor about your body, what you shall put on. Is not life more than food, and the body more than clothing?

Look at the birds of the air: they neither sow nor reap nor gather into barns, and yet your heavenly Father feeds them. Are you not of more value than they? And which of you by being anxious can add one cubit to his span of life? And why are you anxious about clothing? Consider the lilies of the field, how they grow; they neither toil nor spin; yet I tell you, even Solomon in all his glory was not arrayed like one of these.

But if God so clothes the grass of the field, which today is alive and tomorrow is thrown into the oven, will he not much more clothe you, O men of little faith? Therefore do not be anxious, saying, `What shall we eat?' or `What shall we drink?' or `What shall we wear?'

For the Gentiles seek all these things; and your heavenly Father knows that you need them all. But seek first his kingdom and his righteousness, and all these things shall be yours as well. Therefore do not be anxious about tomorrow, for tomorrow will be anxious for itself. Let the day's own trouble be sufficient for the day.
_________________
Authority has the same etymological root as authenticity.

The Cat · Joined: 23 Apr 2005 Posts: 4357

---Teach this triple truth to all: A generous heart, kind speech, and a life
of service and compassion are the things which renew humanity (Buddha).

---Let yourself be open and life will be easier... A spoon of salt in a glass of water
makes the water undrinkable. A spoon of salt in a lake goes almost unnoticed.

---Decay is inherent in all compounded things. Strive on with diligence. (Buddha's last words...)

---The real Enlightened (Brahmin) is the one who has crossed beyond duality.
From this, we can see that the original message of Buddha was truly Zen-Advaita...

Sunrises and settings as moments in space where opposites get united in flamboyant harmonies!
_________________
Authority has the same etymological root as authenticity.

The Cat · Joined: 23 Apr 2005 Posts: 4357

Jiddu Krishnamurti: On Being Religious (3).
17th December 2005:
--What is the impetus behind the search for God, and is that search real? For most of us, it is an escape from actuality. So, we must be very clear in ourselves whether this search after God is an escape, or whether it is a search for truth in everything, truth in our relationships, truth in the value of things, truth in ideas.

If we are seeking God merely because we are tired of this world and its miseries, then it is an escape. Then we create God, and therefore it is not God. The God of the temples, of the books, is not God, obviously -it is a marvellous escape. But if we try to find the truth, not in one exclusive set of actions, but in all our actions, ideas, and relationships, if we seek the right evaluation of food, clothing, and shelter, then because our minds are capable of clarity and understanding, when we seek reality we shall find it. It will not then be an escape. But if we are confused with regard to the things of the world -food, clothing, shelter, relationship- and ideas, how can we find reality? We can only invent reality.

So, God, truth, or reality, is not to be known by a mind that is confused, conditioned, limited. How can such a mind think of reality or God? It has first to decondition itself. It has to free itself from its own limitations, and only then can it know what God is, obviously not before. Reality is the unknown, and that which is known is not the real.

18th December 2005:
--A man who believes in God can never find God. If you are open to reality, there can be no belief in reality. If you are open to the unknown, there can be no belief in it. After all, belief is a form of self-protection, and only a petty mind can believe in God. Look at the belief of the aviators during the war who said God was their companion as they were dropping bombs! So you believe in God when you kill, when you are exploiting people. You worship God and go on ruthlessly extorting money, supporting the army, yet you say you believe in mercy, compassion, kindliness.

As long as belief exists, there can never be the unknown; you cannot think about the unknown, thought cannot measure it. The mind is the product of the past, it is the result of yesterday, and can such a mind be open to the unknown? It can only project an image, but that projection is not real; so your god is not God: it is an image of your own making, an image of your own gratification.

There can be reality only when the mind understands the total process of itself and comes to an end. When the mind is completely empty -only then is it capable of receiving the unknown. The mind is not purged until it understands the content of relationship -its relationship- with property, with people until it has established the right relationship with everything.

Until it understands the whole process of conflict in relationship, the mind cannot be free. Only when the mind is wholly silent, completely inactive, not projecting, when it is not seeking and is utterly still only then that which is eternal and timeless comes into being.

21st December 2005:
To be a theist or an atheist, to me, are both absurd. If you knew what truth is, what God is, you would neither be a theist nor an atheist, because in that awareness belief is unnecessary. It is the man who is not aware, who only hopes and supposes, who looks to belief or to disbelief to support him, and to lead him to act in a particular way.

Now, if you approach it quite differently, you will find out for yourselves, as individuals, something real that is beyond all the limitations of beliefs, beyond the illusion of words. But that -the discovery of truth, or God- demands great intelligence, which is not assertion of belief or disbelief, but the recognition of the hindrances created by lack of intelligence.

So to discover God or truth -and I say such a thing does exist, I have realized it- to recognize that, to realize that, the mind must be free of all the hindrances which have been created throughout the ages, based on self-protection and security. You cannot be free of security by merely saying that you are free. To penetrate the walls of these hindrances, you need to have a great deal of intelligence, not mere intellect. Intelligence, to me, is mind and heart in full harmony; and then you will find out for yourself, without asking anyone, what that reality is."
_________________
Authority has the same etymological root as authenticity.

The Cat · Joined: 23 Apr 2005 Posts: 4357

Jiddu Krishnamurti (1895-1986): Meditation and the Thinking Machine...

I've discovered Krishnaji while I was about 17 years old, so still in my formative years. From his teachings, I decided to travel a lot as part of the education (not instruction as in school) I had to give myself, in order to open myself to the world of other cultures. I've never regretted a single moment of traveling, including when my very life was threatened like in Turkey or in Spain. Ain't life as such?

Traveling helps putting yourself in full relativity and teach how much we are depending upon others for surviving. It taught me that the human nature is earnestly good and giving, when let to itself. Most cultures have deep hospitality traditions. From all those dear souvenirs, I've learned that life is but a moment to cross, like a bridge unfit to park in. Its Eternal Law being in shared adaptation.

Wisdom is our only physical lighthouse & psychological compass: The Garden of Enlightenment...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jiddu_Krishnamurti
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Bohm
--The First And Last Freedom (1954).
--Commentaries on Living (3 volumes, 1956-58-1960)
--Freedom from the Known (1969).
--The Ending of Time (with the quantum physicist David Bohm, 1985).

A last Pie de la Cuesta ablazing sunset...

_________________
Authority has the same etymological root as authenticity.

Lotus Feet · Joined: 24 Sep 2006 Posts: 5014

A person that does not put anything in, is not worthy to get anything out.

Lotus Feet
_________________
Sons of God commit no violence in thought, word or deed. For they are the light of divine love.

shanker333 · Joined: 17 Sep 2006 Posts: 711 Location: india

lotus

yr post was uncalled for

yr everything is yr ego, thats what cat is trying to indicate.

Lotus Feet · Joined: 24 Sep 2006 Posts: 5014

shanker333 · Joined: 17 Sep 2006 Posts: 711 Location: india

lotus
regarding yr explanation
how wud i have known in what context yr one line sutra was about

Lotus Feet · Joined: 24 Sep 2006 Posts: 5014

Dear Shanker, my understanding is that the nature of this thread is that it is for posting wisdom and not for discussion as such. So that is what I do, I post a line or a few lines from where it comes.

Big hugs Shanker, I take nothing personally and I feel sure that Cat doesn't either. Cat is a wonderful person with great wisdom of their own to share.....

Lotus Feet
_________________
Sons of God commit no violence in thought, word or deed. For they are the light of divine love.

The Cat · Joined: 23 Apr 2005 Posts: 4357

Saluting the 20,000th visitor to this thread, with a toast to Liberty...

Since my last post, not even a month ago, 2,500 visitors got in, even if the thread wasn't quite active. Warm my heart deeply and will post further things, like quotations on freedom very soon.
Love...

_________________
Authority has the same etymological root as authenticity.