|
Attention: Year 2009 is here
Wishing a very Happy New Year to all members of FFI. Our new and improved site is ready. To visit main site, click at faithfreedom.org and to visit our new forum, click at forum09.faithfreedom.org and register again. Do not worry about your old forum posts and PM, everything is saved here till 31st December, 2008 for future references.
|
| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Author |
Message |
Danish
Joined: 25 Dec 2004
Posts: 1076
Location: USA
|
 Posted: Thu Jan 11, 2007 2:08 am Post subject: |
 |
|
Final analysis of child abuse:
Closely examining and analyzing from all angles the demographics and problems of child and teen marriages alongwith other child abuses of all sorts the world faces today, I am actually very surprised to find that this problem exists and shockingly escalating more so in rather advanced (westernized and especially USA) countries that is affecting millions of innocent children and their families each year and continues to be a major problem in spite of billions of dollars spent on counseling, media, punishments, education, etc., sadly with little effect, where part of our hard earned tax dollars are being wasted. This is due to the fact of unstoppable negative influences (rapes, pornographies, adult media churnings, teen prostitution, strip clubs and massage parlors, child abductions, divorces and multiple marriages, abortion, child endangerment and murders, domestic violence, orphanages, open adult retails and free trades, open borders, alcoholism, narcotics, polygamist cults, schooling, children dramas and movies, Internet, and scores of other issues) stemming from what is called “free society” proclaimed and constituted by the very faithheads trumpeting their “innocence” and “free-style” with provocative blame games.
Another interesting fact to note is that although the Shariah Law allows and leverages “adolescent” marriages, it is not by any means mandatory criteria of practice administered by the majority and only observed to a much lesser extent in certain remote and underdeveloped areas stemming from jahilia period. Besides, very rare incidents of marriages being “purchased” has been exposed more so in other non-Muslim environments as well. Nonetheless, and surely no culture, whether Muslim or non-Muslim, will ever remain free of problems nor totally eliminated and neither can be resolved overnight. In any case, statistics shows that child/teen marriages and abuses are far less in the Muslim world than in non-Muslim cultures and majority of the Muslims TODAY do happily, willfully, legally and successfully get married AFTER reaching the ages of maturity, somewhere around 18+ (in girls) and 21+ (in boys).
One can be illustrative and colorful by displaying few derrogative and demeaning pictures of child marriages hither-n-thither mixed up with other irrelevant subjects to lure others into proving their flowery discources, but fortunately the facts as expressed above remains. Perhaps certain cyberloonies will backfire on me by presenting their wondrous revelations from LalaBhaiJumkaWala, and that too is a “free-style” addiction that cannot be resolved and seems rather unstoppable for obvious reasons. Finally, the western allegedly “civilized” nations must resolve their own abundance of current filthy problems at hand from further deteriorating first, before dictating, propagating and reversing effects on others by unnecessary aggressions.
_________________
Nature dictates conditions of reality to living a circumstantial way of life. Life is Reality, Reality is Nature and Nature is Supreme. Love and Live by Reality in Nature. ~ Danish. |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
doubtless
Joined: 17 Feb 2004
Posts: 6442
|
| Posted: Thu Jan 11, 2007 2:39 am Post subject: |
|
|
Danish,
You have made some grand statements. Let us see how well you can support them.
Please show some statistics that lead you to make these wild claims. Show the stats of child abuse in the "west" and show that you have made a good faith effort to compare it to the "east". Please do that to demonstrate that the number support your hypothesis.
You do know what your reputation and the value of your word will be, if you do not or can not, don't you?
_________________
Ali Sina: "The truth is out there for those who want to see it. It is beyond doubt."
Rg Veda: "He who surveys it in the highest heaven; He surely knows - or maybe He does not!" |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
darth
Joined: 03 Dec 2004
Posts: 2493
|
| Posted: Thu Jan 11, 2007 2:44 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Danish wrote: |
In any case, statistics shows that child/teen marriages and abuses are far less in the Muslim world than in non-Muslim cultures and majority of the Muslims TODAY do happily, willfully, legally and successfully get married AFTER reaching the ages of maturity, somewhere around 18+ (in girls) and 21+ (in boys).
|
What statistics are those? In the west we document all cases of child abuse. Do you have any statistic at all from muslim countries (from a reliable external source)?
| Danish wrote: |
Finally, the western allegedly “civilized” nations must resolve their own abundance of current filthy problems at hand from further deteriorating first, before dictating, propagating and reversing effects on others by unnecessary aggressions. |
You are missing a very important point. In US child abuse *is a crime*. Having sex with underage kids *is a crime*. Those that commit this crime are punished by law. In muslim nations run by sharia laws crimes against children are very rarely punished. Sex with underage children is not a crime and has holy sanction. Get it? Big difference |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
doubtless
Joined: 17 Feb 2004
Posts: 6442
|
| Posted: Thu Jan 11, 2007 3:13 am Post subject: |
|
|
He does not have any statistics. And before you lie any further please go look up the UN study on Violence against Children. The summary is available on Line but the country break down is available in the detailed documents. Do yourself a favor and look them up.
Do not try to score silly points on the back of little children, but then you come from pakistan and you would not know about how little children of the poor are treated there, would you, Danish Khan? Do you think you are honorable enough to use that Khan?
_________________
Ali Sina: "The truth is out there for those who want to see it. It is beyond doubt."
Rg Veda: "He who surveys it in the highest heaven; He surely knows - or maybe He does not!" |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
humandecency
Joined: 04 Jan 2005
Posts: 18818
Location: This side of the black stump.
|
| Posted: Thu Jan 11, 2007 3:22 am Post subject: |
|
|
| darth wrote: |
| Danish wrote: |
In any case, statistics shows that child/teen marriages and abuses are far less in the Muslim world than in non-Muslim cultures and majority of the Muslims TODAY do happily, willfully, legally and successfully get married AFTER reaching the ages of maturity, somewhere around 18+ (in girls) and 21+ (in boys).
|
What statistics are those? In the west we document all cases of child abuse. Do you have any statistic at all from muslim countries (from a reliable external source)?
| Danish wrote: |
Finally, the western allegedly “civilized” nations must resolve their own abundance of current filthy problems at hand from further deteriorating first, before dictating, propagating and reversing effects on others by unnecessary aggressions. |
You are missing a very important point. In US child abuse *is a crime*. Having sex with underage kids *is a crime*. Those that commit this crime are punished by law. In muslim nations run by sharia laws crimes against children are very rarely punished. Sex with underage children is not a crime and has holy sanction. Get it? Big difference |
No he doesn't get it. And either doesn't want to get it, or not capable of
getting it. It is just tooooo sub-tel for him.
He doesn't understand why it should be a crime.
We have been throught this before in the same thread.
The cycle of circles.
_________________
The Swordy Whahabian flag bears the sword, islamic symbol of peace.
>>paradoxtoparadise]<<
>>> http://www.geocities.com/humandecency/first <<<
™ |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
MsWesterner
Joined: 11 Nov 2006
Posts: 11888
|
| Posted: Thu Jan 11, 2007 4:44 am Post subject: |
|
|
Danish.....you are going to some very deviant lengths to avoid the real harm and issue, and that is "innocent children".
We know for sure that muslims neither report abuse (as a poll taken in the ME confirmed that), or that muslims countries or government agencies keep statistics of such - e.g. with domestic abuse, why would they keep records when the religion teaches that it is ok???? they simply wouldn't.
And never forget Danish, that many of those abused will be children, little girls given in marriage "without informed consent". I don't think you have any conscience or even know the meaning of informed consent.
As often said....your postings leave me very cold, as they come across as sinister and incredibly uncaring. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Anna Doe
Joined: 25 Dec 2005
Posts: 2745
Location: Somewhere on the spheric kafir earth, vaccinating people against islam
|
| Posted: Thu Jan 11, 2007 7:30 am Post subject: |
|
|
Danish, I have spent yesterday 3 or 4 hours of my time to look at those real life evidence you were asking for. I have posted statistics, first hand testimonies, medical information, pictures and so on.
http://www.faithfreedom.org/forum/viewtopic.php?p=701907#701907
And you think you refuted me by a tu quoque without any support?!!!
I also wrote about your mistake in comparing what the concept of puberty means in the western world (menstruation, breast growth and other physical changes, hormones changes but also psychological and intellectual changes and so on...) and what it means in the islamic world (menstruation).
http://www.faithfreedom.org/forum/viewtopic.php?p=701898#701898
(actually I would be very grateful if someone quotes the actual koranic verses dealing with menstruation, or is it only in the ahadith and tafseer?  )
And here too, you prefered not to answer me, what a surprise!
Today again I am bringing here the results of a couple of hours of my time researching Vesico-Vaginal Fistula (VVF) and recto-vaginal fistulas (RVF). It was already discussed in FFI (thanks to Farside, Mairjke and certainly others), but I shall open a thread in the 'Women in islam' section, to remind everybody that
- mohamed established pedophilic mariages in the ummah and has destroyed the life of millions of muslim girls up to today when he married Aisha at the tender age of 6 and had pedophilic sex with her at the tender age of 8 years and 9 months and
- mohamed didn't stop female genital mutilation (FGM) and hundreds of thousands girls have died and hundreds of thousands girls have been hurted, traumatized, and deprived of sexual pleasure when he witnessed and blessed a FGM because he didn't stop the torturer to perform his/her mutilation.
And VVF and RVF are two of the horrible consequences of these 2 practices, sadly but logically more current in the muslim world.
http://www.forwarduk.org.uk/key-issues/fistula
| Dr. Katherine Hamlin, Second Fistulae Hospital, Addis Ababa, Ethiopia wrote: |
| To meet only one of these mothers is to be profoundly moved. Mourning the stillbirth of their only baby, incontinent of urine, ashamed of their offensiveness, often spurned by their husbands, homeless, unemployable except in the fields, they endure, they exist, without hope... |
| Quote: |
Fistulae are holes that are created between the vaginal wall and the bladder (vesicovaginal fistula VVF), and holes created between the vaginal wall and the rectum (rectovaginal fistula RVF). Fistula has severe physical and social consequences and is one of the most degrading morbidities resulting from pregnancy and childbirth. As these holes are formed as a result of pregancy and child birth the term Obstetric fistula is commonly used as an umbrella term. It can be caused by obstructed labour due to FGM type 3 or FGM type 4 , where cuts are made into the vagina, or by child marriage and early pregnancy. For this reason FORWARD at its strategic review in 2002 formally adopted the challenge of addressing child marriage, an issue contributing to and associated with Fistula and FGM.
...
[size=18]About 15% of fistula cases are caused by the harmful practice of female genital mutilation. The 'gishiri' cut, a form of female genital mutilation, is commonly practised in Nigeria amongst the Hausa people. This traditional practice, performed by untrained traditional birth attendants, is used in the treatment of a wide variety of gynaecological ills and is commonly employed during pregnancy and labour. A cut is made in the anterior wall of the vagina with an unsterilised sharp instrument, if the cut is made too deep, a hole is created between the bladder and the vagina resulting in VVF. The rationale for the 'gishiri' cut defies scientific explanation, but belief in its effectiveness persists.
[/size]
In Northern Nigeria maternal morbidity as a result of fistula is particularly high, with an estimated 70% of the 150,00 cases, in Nigeria, occurring in the North.
...
Obstructing labour is directly related to the custom of early marriage in Nigeria (frequently below the age of 18 and sometimes before the onset of menstruation, as early as 11 years old). Early marriage invariably leads to early sexual contact and subsequent pregnancy at a time when a young girl is not adequately physically developed to permit the passage of a baby with relative ease. |
http://www.unicef-icdc.org/publications/pdf/digest7e.pdf
| Quote: |
Pregnancy-related deaths are the leading cause of mortality for 15-19 year-old girls (married and unmarried) worldwide.
Mothers in this age group face a 20 to 200 per cent greater chance of dying in pregnancy than women aged 20 to 24. Those under age 15 are five times as likely to die as women in their twenties.109 The main causes are haemorrhage, sepsis, preeclampsia/eclampsia and obstructed labour.
...
For every woman who dies in childbirth, 30 more suffer injuries, infections and disabilities, which usually go untreated and some of which are lifelong.
...
However, physical immaturity is the key risk for the under 15s.High rates of Vesico-Vaginal Fistula (VVF) are clearly identified with marriage and childbearing in the 10-15 year-old age group; in one study in Niger, 88 per cent of women with fistula were in this age group at marriage. 113 Mothers whose pelvis and birth canal are not fully developed often endure very prolonged labour. 114 Unless the mother receives emergency obstetric care, relentless pressure from the baby’s skull can damage the birth canal, causing breakages in the wall, allowing uncontrollable leakage from the bladder into the vagina. The same problem may also occur in relation to the rectum, with leakage of faeces (rectovaginal fistulas, or RVF) |
http://www.unfpa.org/about/faqs.htm#fistula
| Quote: |
Obstetric fistulae disproportionately affect very young and very poor women. Girls under 15 are 25 times more likely to have critical complications related to pregnancy than women in their 20s.
...
WHO estimates that some 2 million women are living with fistulas, with an additional 50,000 to 100,000 new cases occurring every year. These figures are probably low, however, as many women suffering from the problem remain hidden and in shame. Fistula should be considered a long-term disability, as it is not uncommon for women to live with fistulas for decades. |
http://www.endfistula.org/q_a.htm
 
Patients attend a literacy class at the Fistula Repair Centre at Dhaka Medical College Hospital in Bangladesh. Photo: GMB Akash/Panos Pictures
4 young women, 3 children in this picture have fistula. Do you wonder why these 3 children have it? I can even presume the women had it since they were child bride themselves too.
The Campaign to end fistula currently covers more than 35 countries in sub-Saharan Africa, Asia and the Arab region. Do you wonder why too?
| Quote: |
...
Because of their low status in many communities, women often lack the power to choose when to start bearing children or where to give birth. Childbearing before the pelvis is fully developed, as well as malnutrition, small stature and general poor health, are contributing physiological factors to obstructed labour. Older women who have delivered many children are at risk as well. |
http://www.ethiopiaid.org.uk/fistula.htm
| Quote: |
| The lack of effective healthcare facilities is not the only reason why fistulas are so common in Ethiopia. There are certain traditional practices that make life much harder for girls and women. Firstly there is the problem of early marriage. Girls as young as 4 or 5 are betrothed and intercourse often takes place before their teens. Their immature bodies are often not developed enough to cope with the rigours of childbirth. |
http://www.crin.org/docs/resources/publications/WhoseRighttoChoose.pdf
| Quote: |
| Studies confirm that early marriage and early childbirth are linked to high rates of adolescent fertility and pregnancy related complications. ‘In many cultures, a girl is led to believe that her status as a wife is tied to the number of male offspring she has; frequent pregnancies are therefore common’ (UNICEF,1994). Sadly, the more children a young girl has, the higher the chances are of maternal and infant death. Evidence shows that girls aged between 15 and19 years old are twice as likely to die from childbirth than a woman is in her twenties. Those aged under 15 years are six times more likely to die (Barnes et al,1998). The extent of this problem can be seen by the fact that three out of four teenagers are mothers in Africa, and 40% of teenage births are to girls under 17 years old. These girls are articularly prone to anaemia as their bodies are not yet developed; ‘she still has 4% of her height to gain and her pelvis will only be 82-88% of its fully grown width’ (ASI,1994). Due to the girl’s small pelvis, labour is often slow and the child becomes stuck, resulting in vesico and recto-vaginal fistulas, and incontinence. In many societies, incontinence results in desertion by the husband, family and friends, leaving the girl’s mother to look after her and her children. Sometimes not even this support is given (IAC,1984). Fistulas also occur when young circumcised girls give birth. For many, circumcision leaves rigid scars that are torn during childbirth and are often irreparable (Hinselwood,2000). |
http://www.fistulafoundation.org/index.html
| Quote: |
:Q: How many women does this problem affect?
A: Because fistula affects women in the most remote regions of the world, an accurate count is very hard to achieve. The most common estimate is that 100,000 women worldwide develop fistulas every year, though some estimates put the number closer to 500,000. Experts at Addis Ababa Fistula Hospital estimate that there are approximately 9,000 new cases of fistula every year in Ethiopia alone. Because most fistula sufferers are young women—many still in their teens—they are likely to live with their condition for upwards of 25 years. By any estimate, there are at least two million women currently living with fistula throughout the developing world. The world capacity to treat fistula is estimated at 6,500 fistula repair surgeries per year. |
http://www.unfpa.org/swp/2003/english/ch5/
| Quote: |
Girls who are not fully developed physically encounter difficulties in sex, pregnancy and labour. Obstructed labour is especially common among young women giving birth for the first time. In Ethiopia, one study found that obstructed labour accounted for 46 per cent of maternal deaths.(3)
Obstetric fistulas are virtually unknown in places where early marriage is discouraged, young women are educated about their bodies and skilled medical care—including emergency referrals—is provided at childbirth.
...
Pregnancy is a leading cause of death for young women aged 15 to 19 worldwide, with complications of childbirth and unsafe abortion being the major factors.(1) For both physiological and social reasons, women in this age group are twice as likely to die in childbirth as those in their twenties. Girls under age 15 are five times as likely to die as those in their twenties.(2)
...
Millions of young women get pregnant each year, before their bodies have fully matured, increasing their risk of complications during childbirth. Obstetric fistula is the most devastating disability that can happen to a young woman who survives a difficult childbirth. |
Unicef demands to set the minimum age of marriage at 18 based on medical evidence gathered from around the world. http://www.commondreams.org/headlines01/0307-01.htm
http://www.unhchr.ch/html/menu6/2/fs23.htm
| Quote: |
Early pregnancy can have harmful consequences for both young mothers and their babies. According to UNICEF, no girl should become pregnant before the age of 18 because she is not yet physically ready to bear children. Babies of mothers younger than 18 tend to be born premature and have low body weight; such babies are more likely to die in the first year of life. The risk to the young mother's own health is also greater. Poor health is common among indigent pregnant and lactating women.
An additional health risk to young mothers is obstructed labour, which occurs when the baby's head is too big for the orifice of the mother. This provokes vesicovaginal fistulas, especially when an untrained traditional birth attendant forces the baby's head out unduly. [A vesicovaginal fistula is an opening between the vagina and the bladder or between the vagina and the rectum, resulting in the young girl leaking urine or is unable to control defecation.] |
Please bring me one medical paper (apart from the koran    ) who advice sexual relationships or marriage at the "onset of puberty", moreover before.
-------------------------
Oh I found another real life evidence:
Jan Goodwin wrote "The price of Honor: Muslim women lift the veil of silence on the Islamic world"
| Quote: |
page 1
It began with Maria. She entered my life for a brief while when she was nine years old. I lost her two years later to a world that I then little understood. I was the mother she did not have, and she was the daughter I had never given birth to. The last time I saw her, she was sobbing bitterly. Between gasps for breaths, she said she wanted to kill herself. I shuddered as she said it, the shock no less than it had been the first time she spoke it six months before.
The final image of her is her face pale with grief, her brown eyes as dark as the deep shadows under them that no eleven-year-old should have. She moved stiffly, the bruises from her most recent beating still vivid. Maria was a bargaining chip in an auction that was closed to outsiders. I never saw her again, but there isn't a day that I don't think about her, wonder how she is, and ask myself, Could I have done more to stop the apparent inevitability of what happened to her?
In trying to locate her afterward, the cultural barriers came down to close me out as effectively as the four walls of purdah that went up and now cofine her. A year later, I was told that Maria, still weeks short of her twelfth birthday, was pregnant with her first child. Forcibly married, she had been traded off at the age of eleven to a man described to me as "already having two wives, and so old he has lost all his teeth and shakes all the time," possibly from Parkinson's disease. In exchange for Maria, the ancient bridegroom had given one of his daughters to Maria's father, a widower who had wanted to remarry and could not afford the bride-price.
...
page 7
It was because of Maria that I began this book. ...I wanted to understand what it was like to grow up female in Maria's world. It was a pilgrimage that would take me though the Islamic heartland to ten countries: Pakistan, Afghanistan, Iran, United Arab Emirates, Kuwait, Iraq, Saudi Arabia, Jordan, West Bank and Gaza of Israel, and Egypt. |
And more at
http://www.forwarduk.org.uk/key-issues/child-marriage
Notably all the footnotes.
_________________
Vaccinate yourself against islam: read the koran!
Orenda: islam orders women to hide themselves so rapists won't be tempted to harass them, it is as stupid as to ask colored people to hide themselves so racists won't be tempted to harass them |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
MsWesterner
Joined: 11 Nov 2006
Posts: 11888
|
| Posted: Thu Jan 11, 2007 10:10 am Post subject: |
|
|
I wonder how many muslim males on this forum, or indeed "if" any read the links or stories that Anna Doe provides......if they do, and still think that child abuse is quite ok because the cult says it is, then to me they are mentally depraved and sick.
Mahiwal for example.....all I see him do is rubbish people who speak the truth, then blurt further nonsense about the cult and the koran!!! |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
jack hawkins
Joined: 27 Oct 2006
Posts: 2714
Location: Bordesley Green, Birmingham, Pakistan
|
| Posted: Thu Jan 11, 2007 11:45 am Post subject: |
|
|
You're doing a great job AD - for any Muslim doubters she really knows her medical stuff well, I can tell you
_________________
[/islam] |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
darth
Joined: 03 Dec 2004
Posts: 2493
|
| Posted: Thu Jan 11, 2007 1:41 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Excellent info, Anna Doe. Hope some muslims do get it. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
AhmedBahgat
Joined: 25 Jan 2006
Posts: 10001
|
| Posted: Thu Jan 11, 2007 1:52 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Yeh Danish
it seems they are resorting to the lalafukin whatever
Good post Danish
Cheers |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
humandecency
Joined: 04 Jan 2005
Posts: 18818
Location: This side of the black stump.
|
| Posted: Thu Jan 11, 2007 2:54 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Enough of this.
It has been established that Islam permits child bonking as per the role model, the alleged prophet.
Now it's time to move on to slavery in Islam. And no doubt Danish, the Quran Only non-Muslim will give us a load of 2 cock hay and straw men.
There's all this right hand possessions if they are married women and all that.
_________________
The Swordy Whahabian flag bears the sword, islamic symbol of peace.
>>paradoxtoparadise]<<
>>> http://www.geocities.com/humandecency/first <<<
™ |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Danish
Joined: 25 Dec 2004
Posts: 1076
Location: USA
|
| Posted: Thu Jan 11, 2007 3:21 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Ana Doe,
As mentioned earlier and once again you bring irrelevant and colorful lengthy ramblings (your consistent habit) to lure others into, such as FGM (female genital mutilation) which has nothing to do with child marriages since they are performed at birth and as well on adults. It is a surgical procedure, not a marriage. Fistula is of various kinds of disorder and the Obstetric Fistula in particular, is a pregnancy factor but once again not a marriage. It is not necessarily a condition due to child marriage but mostly caused by pre-mature births, abortions, pelvic fractures, etc. found in any age group and in any weak and malnutrition mothers, not ONLY Muslims. I'm not sure that you even understand the topic I am discussing. Do read those medical data well, however.
FGM has only recently been a subject of scientific study and plagiarized to become a human rights violation in the US which is still under its rightful infancy. This procedure is also a worldwide cultural and religious recognition not yet sanctioned by UN and other world countries (check your own several links). Besides, these practices has been ongoing for over 2000+ years originating from Africa, long before even Judaism took its ugly existence which became rather a “religious” one and infiltrated into yet other upgraded doctrines. All three major religions alongwith other belief systems have been recognizing this the world over since then, including you, your followers and past ancestors with no problems since then and now suddenly it becomes Ana Doe’s and her cyberlooney kiddoes malicious whistlings to target Muslims ONLY without giving other cultural and belief systems a blink. Even if something happened a million years ago, Muslims would be blamed. I wouldn’t be surprised if you blame Muslims for slaughtering and mass killing dinosaurs too. How they did it, Ana Doe would know best because she is the best debater and the Master of Cyberloonies who personally knows LalaBhaiJumkaWala. I thought I read in one of your posts that you also left religious con systems and that you are an honest person. Is that also one of your luring colorful jamborees as well?
Anyhow, I will eliminate responding to your irrelevant issues and jump right into my original concern on pre-pubertal and underage marriages as allegedly claimed and targeted only upon Muslims, which was initially the crux of the matter with respect to Quranic verses 65:4 and 33:49 to begin with (that is if you still remember and understand) in relations to current Muslim standings vs non-Muslims and not 1500 years ago; that’s history. In your last post, there’s a small portion of some relevance to your alleged claims which I shall address soon.
_________________
Nature dictates conditions of reality to living a circumstantial way of life. Life is Reality, Reality is Nature and Nature is Supreme. Love and Live by Reality in Nature. ~ Danish. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
miss ruby
Joined: 17 Jan 2006
Posts: 6411
Location: Britain
|
| Posted: Thu Jan 11, 2007 4:12 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Danish wrote: |
| Master of Cyberloonies who personally knows LalaBhaiJumkaWala |
Sorry!.....but still 
_________________
Goodbye may seem forever, but forever is not the end~
For in our hearts there's a memory of a love that never ends~~~for Baby Peter Connolly.....tortured to death. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Anna Doe
Joined: 25 Dec 2005
Posts: 2745
Location: Somewhere on the spheric kafir earth, vaccinating people against islam
|
| Posted: Thu Jan 11, 2007 9:05 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Danish wrote: |
| As mentioned earlier and once again you bring irrelevant and colorful lengthy ramblings (your consistent habit) |
I don't know about other posts of mine but about this one, why is there ramble??? All my post is quotes, quotes, quotes of local doctor(s), NGO specialist(s) and governments representative(s) and data, data, data, do you mean all these qualified people are rambling? These persons have spent some or all of their professionial life researching consequences of child marriages and FGM and have witnesses the pain, the scars and the traumas, how much did you research it? What are your parameters for rambling? Me repeating the truth with support over and over again so muslims can realize through the islamic brainwashing they were the victim of since the day they were born is rambling? Ok, but I see it is a good, correct and fair rambling.
Your rambling on the other hand has come up with not one proof or support to your stance.
 Please, I ask again, bring me one medical paper (apart from the koran ) who advices and support the physical, moral and psychological benefits of sexual relationships or marriage at the islamic "onset of puberty", i.e. first menstruation, moreover when they happen before the onset of puberty.
| Danish wrote: |
| to lure others into, such as FGM (female genital mutilation) which has nothing to do with child marriages since they are performed at birth and as well on adults. It is a surgical procedure, not a marriage. |
I didn't say FGM has something to do with child marriages (although many are done in connection with the marriage to ensure the woman won't want to do it with others than her husband, actually it is so painfull and dull she doesn't want to do it with even her husband), I quoted professional people and organizations who wrote that fistulas are consequences of child marriages and FGM.
And I brought the issue following your statements that the first menstruation means it is ok/good/moral to have sexual relations, that the girl is ready. I think my quotes prooves that girls are immature physically (moreover psychologically) to be pregnant and give birth.
Please, I ask again, bring me one medical paper (apart from the koran) who advices and support the physical, moral and psychological benefits of sexual relationships or marriage at the islamic "onset of puberty", i.e. first menstruation, moreover when they happen before the onset of puberty.
The worst is that the model of child marriage in islam is the marriage of 6 year old Aisha and 51 years old mohamed (45 years difference) and the complete sexual consomption when Aisha was 9 lunar year, i.e. 8 year and 9 months (many islamic scholars talked about mohamed's mufhakhatat during the 3 years before the full sexual act, i.e. putting the penis between the thigh of the pre-menstruation girl for pleasure ). So now not only the girl is immature physically for pregnancy and birth, but she has to suffer the penetration of a mature penis, certainly without being aroused, her vagin is not long and big enough (please reread the information I posted at the end of my previous post). Do you think it hurts? I read somewhere 70% of female adult fell pain during intercourse, what do you think is the percentage of hurted childs?
Look at the difference in the size for goodness sake!
| Danish wrote: |
| Fistula is of various kinds of disorder and the Obstetric Fistula in particular, is a pregnancy factor but once again not a marriage. It is not necessarily a condition due to child marriage but mostly caused by pre-mature births, abortions, pelvic fractures, etc. found in any age group and in any weak and malnutrition mothers, not ONLY Muslims. I'm not sure that you even understand the topic I am discussing. Do read those medical data well, however. |
"Disorder"!!!? You don't have a clue, have you? "A factor but not a marriage"!!!? Again, impossible to understand you, maybe it is not english but the thoughts in your head that are incomprehensible. Please try again, where did I said that fistula is a marriage? 
You are the one who didn't read on the subject! I just explained to you I spent my yesterday afternoon to research it. I don't claim any expertise but I am clearly less ignorant than you. Or maybe you have information refuting the numerous site and professional people I quoted? Please quote and link to them for us, thank you!
| Danish wrote: |
| FGM has only recently been a subject of scientific study and plagiarized to become a human rights violation in the US which is still under its rightful infancy. This procedure is also a worldwide cultural and religious recognition not yet sanctioned by UN and other world countries (check your own several links). |
This wasn't the subject of my post. Your herring is a little red.
Crazy and cruel people do crazy and cruel things. Those who are not crazy and cruel should do whatever they can to stop these things, FGM is obviously one horrible torture that must be eradicated. I don't care what excuses you use for this, if it is done on a unwilling person, moreover a minor, I will voice against it. But I will be very careful if the excuse is god. This god, muslim or else, who asks for a crazy and cruel thing is dangerous.
| Danish wrote: |
| Besides, these practices has been ongoing for over 2000+ years originating from Africa, long before even Judaism took its ugly existence which became rather a “religious” one and infiltrated into yet other upgraded doctrines. |
I wonder if you can say islam took its ugly existence (but really here again, I have no clue what your sentence is supposed to mean. I can imagine you don't like Judaism, so may I presume you don't like islam? Well for someone who dislike something, you kind love many parts and defend it quite naturally and spontaneously). Who needs muslim like ahmedbahgat and talha777 when there is allegedly non-muslim like danish to sing the benefits of the pedophilic marriages.
| Danish wrote: |
| All three major religions alongwith other belief systems have been recognizing this the world over since then, including you, your followers and past ancestors with no problems since then and now suddenly it becomes Ana Doe’s and her cyberlooney kiddoes malicious whistlings to target Muslims ONLY without giving other cultural and belief systems a blink. |
Again, I am not sure if i understand you as what you write is unclear. But I can tell you that I don't care if people even my own children believe in fairy tales as long as their beliefs don't make them harm people or worse kill them.
So of course I am against FGM done by anyone, but those wodoo people, or i don't know what is the religion who are making them cut the sex of their girls, are not trying to impose their beliefs in my country. muslims do. islam made the muslims conquered and destroyed, mass-murdered and impose their fairy-tales and cruel beliefs on half the world AND are trying to conquer, destroy and impose their barbaric misogyn supremacist ideology on the other half of the world, with a frightening success. (Anyway this site is a anti-islam site, so of course people will focus on islam here.) And i don't know which part in "Kill the American, British..." you don't understand or I don't know what you don't understand when they demonstrate shouting islam/sharia will be imposed on all of us, I do. And I don't aggree and I am wordy fighting islam before it is too late.
islam is working like a virus, a cancer. I won't let my world dies and plunge into a new darkness. Christianity had the elements to blossom to what it is today, islam can't. Words of allah can't be changed. So i will help to eradicate the cruel words of this allah. This mohamed was a criminal and muslims are telling everybody he was a saint, everybody has to know the truth. You decided to leave islam but keep islam's twisted truth. Well again, difficult to understand you.
So again when Jews and Christians will behead people while singing "Yaveh is great" or "Jesus is great" and they are seen by the majority as the true believers, I will wordy fight their gods and prophets. But "christ did not authorize the crusades or the inquisitions. That was entirely the decision of the Church. In contrast jihad is one of the pillars of islam ordered and practiced by mohamed and is mandatory on all muslims. That is the difference. Christians now denounce the crusades but muslims cannot denounce jihad because it is part of their faith. christian, jewish, hindu or buddhist… terrorists are exceptions, while muslim terrorists are the norm. The koran has hundreds of verses that instruct people to wage war and kill. In fact mohamed says war is good for islam.” Meanwhile, only islam brainwashed its followers to do that. So i wordy fight only islam.
And nice try, but i don't target muslims, i target islam. muslims are victims of their cult, you are an example.
You claim things without proofs only because some mohamedallah said it:
Please, I ask again, bring me one medical paper (apart from the koran) who advices and support the physical, moral and psychological benefits of sexual relationships or marriage at the islamic "onset of puberty", i.e. first menstruation, moreover when they happen before the onset of puberty.
| Danish wrote: |
| Even if something happened a million years ago, Muslims would be blamed. I wouldn’t be surprised if you blame Muslims for slaughtering and mass killing dinosaurs too. How they did it, Ana Doe would know best because she is the best debater and the Master of Cyberloonies who personally knows LalaBhaiJumkaWala. |
| Danish wrote: |
| I thought I read in one of your posts that you also left religious con systems and that you are an honest person. Is that also one of your luring colorful jamborees as well? |
I left all religions yes and I want to be a honest person yes.
Are you asking if I am lying? No: I was never a religious person and now I am not even a non-religious follower of a religion. I believe religions are archaic and silly fairy tales added to some code of morals. But I think there is a need for religions for most of the people. But contrary to most religions, islam didn't reformed, modernized, moderated, evolved with time and reason. I don't believe god exists but if he does i will be happy and not worried for the least: I live my life as much objectively moral as I can, without the stick nor the carrot. So yes, one of the objective morals is to be honest. Why wouldn't i be honest? What do you think is my agenda?
If you are interested, this is the information that made me acknowledge religions are man made:
http://www.jesusneverexisted.com/time.html
When I learned what I learned there, I wanted to know more about islam, who didn't look that bad comparatively to the 2 others. Soon enough I understood the author didn't know about islam so he couldn't criticize it properly. But my questions were answered after I read for many months islamic sites, the koran, the sira and many ahadith following Ali Sina's and others' articles.
I like these two sites too:
http://whywontgodhealamputees.com/your-delusion.htm
http://www.hfun.org/hank.shtml
| Danish wrote: |
| Anyhow, I will eliminate responding to your irrelevant issues and jump right into my original concern on pre-pubertal and underage marriages as allegedly claimed and targeted only upon Muslims, which was initially the crux of the matter with respect to Quranic verses 65:4 and 33:49 to begin with (that is if you still remember and understand) in relations to current Muslim standings vs non-Muslims and not 1500 years ago; that’s history. In your last post, there’s a small portion of some relevance to your alleged claims which I shall address soon. |
Didn't understand really what you mean but i hope it means you will soon:
please bring me one medical paper (apart from the koran) who advices and support the physical, moral and psychological benefits of sexual relationships or marriage at the islamic "onset of puberty", i.e. first menstruation, moreover when they happen before the onset of puberty.
_________________
Vaccinate yourself against islam: read the koran!
Orenda: islam orders women to hide themselves so rapists won't be tempted to harass them, it is as stupid as to ask colored people to hide themselves so racists won't be tempted to harass them
Last edited by Anna Doe on Thu Jan 18, 2007 1:07 am; edited 4 times in total |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
|
Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2002 phpBB Group
|
FAQ
Search
Memberlist
Usergroups
Register
Profile
Log in to check your private messages
Log in
