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The Revival of Islamic Madness
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shima

Joined: 29 May 2004
Posts: 2795

Posted: Wed Sep 08, 2004 12:44 am Post subject: Re: Regarding Islam in Iran today

Benjamin wrote:

When I try to discuss my fears of Islam with other intelligent people, I am often met with an answer such as 'Well, we [Christians] had our crusades and religious wars' or 'World Wars I and II were very bloody and had nothing to do with Islam' or 'It is poverty and the legacy of colonialism which fuel radical Islam'.

Welcome aboard Ben,

It's just poor reasoning to compare islam with what Christians did in the past.
It's even worse reasoning to compare islam with any other religion for that matter, although islam has the lowest moral values compared to any ideology.

Islam should be looked at for what it is on its own, and it ain't much. You won't find a single positive aspect in islam, not one. It's rotten to the core.

And there's no way to hide all the evil in islam.

Don't be embarrassed to admit the truth that islam is evil, there is no reason to show respect to such a shameless lie as islam.
It's only the people who show respect to islam that give power to it.

Deal with it for what it really is, and it will fade away.

People who follow islam should be ashamed of themselves, Not those who point it out.
_________________
Islam is the only left over of barbarism on the planet.

NeoRand

Joined: 14 Aug 2004
Posts: 17

Posted: Wed Sep 08, 2004 1:00 am Post subject: The Revival of Islamic Madness

Ali, Thanks for another insightful article. I had heard the Shah was installed by the CIA but hadn't known all the details. I also hadn't known about land reform in Iran and it doesn't surprise me that it was a disaster. You made an interesting point that America should have propped up the Shah, despite his faults. At first blush that seemed crazy, but I suppose we could have cut a deal with him to make democratic reforms and restore civil liberties. BUT if you make this argument about the Shah, the same should be said for Saddam Hussein. I believe it was a terrible mistake to remove him, because his government, bad as it was, was keeping a lid on Islamofascist tendencies in Iraq. We could have cut a deal with him, too - let's say, give the Kurds limited autonomy, and stop supporting Hezbollah, and you're once again in our good graces. At the same time, we'd promise to lean on the Israelis to make them honor the Oslo accord, and even let him take credit for that if he wanted! Finally, make him promise not to get any new WMD (not too difficult, since he didn't have any at the time anyway.) As I've said before we could've then resumed corrupting the Iraqi people with alcohol, Playboy, and rock music. :-) That would've been a much better prospect than the Islamofascist regime which will surely result from GW's little adventure. (Maybe we should call the insurgents Islamo-suicidal, considering their favorite tactics, and the massive and horrific anti-Islamic backlash they will eventually bring on themselves and their innocent-but-duped co-religionists.) _________________ Marx was right about exactly one thing - religion IS the opiate of the masses!

babushree

Joined: 10 Apr 2004
Posts: 540
Location: paradise of virgin babes

Posted: Wed Sep 08, 2004 1:08 am Post subject:

doubtless wrote:

Kanad,
Reminds me of a young indian girl who was travelling with us for the first time and we had a stopover in London, and she was so absolutely astonished that "little babies" could speak english so fluently. How could babies talk english?

ha ha ha ha ha .................so funny!!!!

Quote:

I would imagine that next to muslims, the hindus have been the cruelest and the meanest culture that ever existed on this planet. Prove me wrong.

Brainless!!
ooooops, I mean doutless, you never told me what untouchable class of india "your ancesters" belonged to? i don't buy your bullsh*it that you got no connection with indian folks.

lemme know if you want me to post ur pic again (0)
_________________
I love pillaging, raping, killing the innocents, child molestation, sex and more sex with too many virgins every night. ALL IN THE NAME OF ALLAH, THE MERCIFUL who makes me the HORNIEST just like the apostle. My hero, the messenger of allah

Last edited by babushree on Wed Sep 08, 2004 11:48 am; edited 2 times in total

doubtless

Joined: 17 Feb 2004
Posts: 6442

Posted: Wed Sep 08, 2004 1:18 am Post subject: Re: cruelty

Kanad wrote:

doubtless;

I agree with you in that Caste system in Hindu world is a cruel system probably the cruelest system ever devised by human mind. However, You will not be able to show I have written anywhere in favor of the caste system. All I can say in favor of Hindu system is that caste system is fast going out of style, specially among the educated masses. That does not mean that Hindus are going to marry Christians and Muslims in droves because Hindus know that Judeo-Christian-Islamic religions are evil creations of the devil. They are evil. The sooner the world gets rid of those desert religions better it will be the world.
In terms of religion, man's relation with God, there is no religion that can come close to Hinduism. Hinduism is man's inherent habit. This has nothing to do with Hindu social customs, like Caste system, Widow burning, untouchability, not eating with the mlecchas(Christians and Muslims) on the same floor etc.

Lets us celebrate Hindu concept of god and gods and goddesses. World will be a happier place to live in.

Let us deplete Muslim head count down to half a billion in next fifty years.

Kanad, all religions includinng hinduism are under stress from Science and the dawning realisation by humans about human cognition. "Hinduism is man's inherent habit" sounds supiciously like " Islam is not a relgion but a deen". That is one nice thing about humanism that no one group can claim ownership to universal truth. If hinduism is what you say it is then there would be no need to on your part to declare it. The fact that you feel the need to express it suggests some difficulties. The Sun and its enery belongs to all humans, good and evil, and no one can claim that the Sun belonngs to this group or another. Man's "inherent habit" belongs to man whether christian, muslim, or whatever and laying claim to such a fundamental property of humanity is incomprehensible. You exclude too many groups from the universal bond of humanity, and I have never fully understood why.
_________________
Ali Sina: "The truth is out there for those who want to see it. It is beyond doubt."

Rg Veda: "He who surveys it in the highest heaven; He surely knows - or maybe He does not!"

babushree

Joined: 10 Apr 2004
Posts: 540
Location: paradise of virgin babes

Posted: Wed Sep 08, 2004 1:18 am Post subject:

Frodo Baggins wrote:

On a more humorous note, this is my view of Khomeini and his ilk: How to build a mullah:

yeap................thats a good one.
_________________
I love pillaging, raping, killing the innocents, child molestation, sex and more sex with too many virgins every night. ALL IN THE NAME OF ALLAH, THE MERCIFUL who makes me the HORNIEST just like the apostle. My hero, the messenger of allah

Humanist

Joined: 04 Sep 2004
Posts: 8520
Location: Kentucky, USA

Posted: Wed Sep 08, 2004 3:28 am Post subject: Re: Education

Kanad wrote:

Americans are highly educated people. Probably more educated than any other people on earth. American college students study various subjects irrespective of their majors. However they do not get unbiased education in some subjects such as Communism and Islam. During Soviet times most American students learned Communism as a demon and were primed up to fight communism in the interest of American nationalism. Americans learned Communism basically in a wrong way. One of the results of that faulty education was Vietnam War for which more than 50000 Americans died for nothing. To some extent that kind of faulty education is reponsible for the quagmire in which Americans now find themselves in Iraq. When it comes to this type of education American education is geared for instilling a deep sense of Nationalism in American students.
The idea of Nationalism and National pride is the last evil created by human mind. Nothing is more destructive to human development that National pride. Hitler was the epitome of demonstration of evilness in the idea of Nationalism. Inspite of all the education that Americans get from their colleges and universities, Americans can be as easily fooled as were the Germans by Hitler and Goebles.

Kanad, you apparently never went to University in the US, did you. On what basis do you make these statements?

Americans have not been duped in the last 228 years. America is the oldest “Republic” in the world. The US has never experienced any problems in following our rule of law. We now have our 43rd President and all defeated Presidents have relinquished power willingly. So Americans can be easily fooled? Where in hell do you get such drivel?

“However they do not get unbiased education in some subjects such as Communism and Islam.” “Americans learned Communism basically in a wrong way.”

We did? We got it straight from Lenin, Stalin and Marks, so how did we get it wrong? Apparently you do not understand that America is free and we have immediate access to all literature by simply going to the library. The University I went to had over 2,000,000 books in the library covering anything you can dream of. In fact College in America is anything but biased. You are so wrong on this that I do not know how to address it. Nationalism? Do you see the street demonstrations? No two people in America think the same way. We are notorious for arguing about every subject know to man.

America, you say, is in a “quagmire….in Iraq”, and I agree it is hard to get a democracy started in 18 months, but a Quagmire? At the least the Anglo-Saxon’s (US and Britian) tried to help some people. America stopped the killing of Muslims in Bosnia. The only people or governments who never make a mistake are those that NEVER DO ANYTHING.

Plus your racist remarks about Anglo-Saxons shows your true position. India is not the only colony of England, fellow. America was an English colony also. People in America do not hate the British for the American colony; we just kicked their asses out, took the best of British law and culture and made our country. Now 228 years later the British are America’s closest allies. Why do the Indians hate the British? You have your independence so why not appreciate the lessons learned from the British. Don’t hate.

I suppose the problem between Islam and Hindu’s is a problem placed on India by the British and Americans. You sound a lot like a Muslim blaming all shortcomings on some one else.

You hate America for its Anglo-Saxon's, but America is employing hundreds of thousands of Indians because they are very bright. I worked with scores of Indians and they are all trying to become naturalized American citizens. They really love us Anglos. My Doctor is an Indian and he is glad to participate in our culture and he has made it better. So why are you bitter? Some day you need to take a graduate course at an American University and experience a “wide-open” education.

You really need to look into Ali Sina’s portion covering Humanism and read those 8 simple little rules. If you take them to heart you will find that you will no longer hate the British and Anglo-Saxons (like me). You may even find it in your heart to tip one of the untouchables tomorrow and say a kind word to him. He will appreciate it. There are no British today who has their boot on India’s neck, so why all the racism?
_________________
"Good people sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf." - George Orwell

Ali Sina

Joined: 13 Feb 2004
Posts: 4607

Posted: Wed Sep 08, 2004 3:29 am Post subject:

Quote:

BUT if you make this argument about the Shah, the same should be said for Saddam Hussein.

There is a world of difference between Shah and Saddam. Shah was a dictator. But he was a human being and a patriot. He was more a fool than an evil man. Pahlavis are decent people. The first Pahlavi was the Ata Turk of Iran. He was a dictator too, but he was an honest man and a topnotch nationalist. He really made Iran rise from ashes. The son of the late Shah, Reza Pahlavi with whom I debated and told him why I do not support his claim to the throne is a wonderful, intelligent and good human being.

Saddam is a monster. He is a psychopath. You cannot and should not cut deals with a mad man like him. The sons of Saddam were maniacs. These animals were thugs, murderers and brutes. There is no comparison between the late Shah and Saddam. I disagree with many things Shah did and do not like monarchy in principle, but I can’t dismiss all the good things that this father and son did for Iran (especially the father. He probably was the best king Iran had in the last 1400 years).

No, Saddam had to be removed. Perhaps in the hindsight, the method was not the right one. May be America should have empowered the Iraqis opposing to the Regime, like the Shiites and the Kurds to fight and remove that criminal and defended them militarily. Letting them to form their provisional government and recognizing that government as the legitimate government of Iraq, America could have entered Iraq by their invitation to defend their resistance and their new government. In this way it was a war that they had fought and won. This is what I would suggest for Iran.

But please never compare Shah with Saddam. That would be like comparing a mosquito bite with the bite of a rattle snake.
_________________
Don't be a follower, but a prophet unto your own.

Last edited by Ali Sina on Thu Jun 12, 2008 6:02 pm; edited 1 time in total

Scott

Joined: 15 Jul 2004
Posts: 1391

Posted: Wed Sep 08, 2004 3:32 am Post subject:

doubtless, please explain:

Quote:

Reminds me of a young indian girl who was travelling with us for the first time and we had a stopover in London, and she was so absolutely astonished that "little babies" could speak english so fluently. How could babies talk english?

_________________
rationalist, peace through education

doubtless

Joined: 17 Feb 2004
Posts: 6442

Posted: Wed Sep 08, 2004 6:51 am Post subject:

Scott wrote:

doubtless, please explain:

Quote:

Scott,
Kanad wrote:

Quote:

What are you going to teach those babies?
Listen baby, I know Anglo-Saxons by their marrows. They enjoy a privileged position in the world because of the last three or four hundred years of world history.

I am sorry I did not state the context fully. When one has a particularly personal perspective even a simple ordinary fact contrary to one's world view appears amazing. Here is an Indian who claims to not only know muslims so thoroughly that he has very little qualms in recommending draconian measures, and then he also knows the Anglo-Saxons by their marrows. I am not even sure exactly who Kanad includes in the Anglo-Saxon category. Such sweeping knowledge about other people is awesome if one could attain it.
I have spent a lot of time learning about Indian culture for a long time and I feel that I barely know it and barely know the different aspects of the diverse people that inhabit South Asia. Experiencing my own limitations I find it difficult to understand how Kanad could know a culture so foreign to him as the Anglo-Saxons so well.

It is difficult for a young Indian child to comprehend what it means to "know" a language, and why different babies can grow to speak different languages. Is there a universal language center in our brain, or is the brain of a native chinese speaker different than that of a native hindi speaker? The complexity and the wonder is gone and replaced by a very personal perspective: "Gosh these babies can speak english so well!". I do wonder what complexity has been shed at the demonising of Anglo-Saxons by an immigrant Indian in USA.
_________________
Ali Sina: "The truth is out there for those who want to see it. It is beyond doubt."

Rg Veda: "He who surveys it in the highest heaven; He surely knows - or maybe He does not!"

Communist

Joined: 15 Mar 2004
Posts: 67
Location: Our common earth

Posted: Wed Sep 08, 2004 9:49 am Post subject:

Ali Sina wrote in response to an earlier comment from me:

Quote:

If the regime of Iran fell, the Saudi leadership would probably continue for at least a little while. If on the other hand Saudi fell, then the mullah regime in Teheran would fall immediately.

Quote:

I doubt this is the case. Iran and SA operate independent from each other and certainly Iranian Shiites never even accepted other Muslims as their spiritual leaders. Both Iran and SA are axis of evil each in is own right. As a matter of fact they are rival in spreading their brand of religion.

If the Shiites do not accept other Muslims as their spiritual leaders, then what is their view of people such as Bin Laden and Basajev? I doubt that the leadership in Iran is tactically stupid. They probably see Bin Laden and Basajev as regional leaders rather than villing tools. Bin Laden and Basajev are both Sunni, and heavily influenced by Wahabism. Practically all islamofascism outside Iran and Iraq is in fact Sunni and influenced or similar to Wahabism. The ideology and the personal affiliations of the Al Queida leadership are bound to SA.

Quote:

I do not think SA is worse than Iran. At least there are some elements in SA who work with the West and maintain the sembelance of a cooperation.

International alliances are what they are. As long as there is a huge trade of arms and oil and there is a mutual concent between the US and SA about silence on ideological questions, the US-SA alliance stays intact. That is the way of things in the cruel world of Realpolitik. While this goes on, Saudi Arabia remains the world's biggest oil exporter and at the same time a medieval country.

Quote:

Just think, the terrorists hit SA several times but there has not been a single attack on Iran. What does it tell you?

Do we know exactly who hit SA several times? I find it highly likely that most of the attacks on Saudi installations have been undertaken by people who are in fact not islamic fundamentalists. In any case, these attacks are in a minority. Most of the attacks in SA are directed against foreighners, and evidence indicates that the perpetrators have helpers high up in the Saudi elites.
_________________
Religion is the sigh of the oppressed creature, the heart of a heartless world and the soul of soulless conditions. It is the opium of the people - Karl Marx

Benjamin

Joined: 07 Sep 2004
Posts: 14

Posted: Wed Sep 08, 2004 2:05 pm Post subject: Re: education

Kanad wrote:

As I said, next to Muslims Anglo-Saxons are the biggest criminals of the world. Prove me wrong.

Hey Kanadji,

Lay off of Anglo-Saxons. I'm one who has turned to Hinduism and Buddhism, and I have many Indian friends and eat with them, etc. You should be friendly to people like me and encourage more of us to cross over to dharma.

The European colonialism was bad. All Europeans now agree with that. That's the difference with all the Muslims who still glorify Mohammed's conquests. Please live in the present.

You can criticize how Bush is fighting terrorists, but the important point is that he is fighting terrorists. You might get cynical and say that the West is in it for the oil, but I see a lot of oil wealth going to the Arab leaders if not the masses.

The Europeans (especially Anglo-Saxons) gave us many good things: democratic constitution, human and individual rights, science, industrial revolution and consequent elimination of poverty for a great many ordinary people, etc. If there is a problem today with democracy, it is that the politicians are for sale (in USA and India). But we can solve that with democracy, if enough people are enlightened.

We need to combine the political and scientific achievements of the West with the spiritual achievements of the East. Only then can we have a really good society. At least accept that the Westerners have been half-good and are natural allies against fanaticism. If you try to fight Europeans and Muslims, we all lose. And Indians have not been perfect either...

Benjamin

Joined: 07 Sep 2004
Posts: 14

Posted: Wed Sep 08, 2004 2:39 pm Post subject: Re: cruelty

Kanad wrote:

Hindus know that Judeo-Christian-Islamic religions are evil creations of the devil. They are evil. The sooner the world gets rid of those desert religions better it will be the world.

Kanad,

I too prefer dharmic religions such as Hinduism and Buddhism. They concentrate on inner peace and realization through yoga, and don't annoy other people by trying to force them to believe something.

Also, something many people don't realize is that you can be a kind 'rationalist' or 'skeptic' or even 'atheist' in Vedanta (the most philosophical branch of Hinduism). All you have to believe in is your inner Self, in your inner divine potential as a conscious being. Same in Buddhism. You don't have to believe in a 'God in the sky'.

And you are right. The 'desert religions' from the Middle East have a harsh side to them, with divinely ordained massacres in both Jewish and Muslim scriptures. Yet the good news is that the Jews, through the power of reason and intelligence, are some of the most progressive and enlightened people in the world today. (I do tend to take the Israeli side against the Palestinians, but that is a whole other story.)

But the important point I would like to make to you is this. There is NO WAY you are suddenly going to convert all the George Bush type Christians to Hinduism or Buddhism. To them, these religions are reminiscent of free-sex and drug-taking hippies!

At any rate, there is a huge inertia in the human mind. It is far wiser to cultivate the benevolent side of Christianity for the time being. And eventually, like Thoreau and Emerson, more and more Christians will naturally 'graduate' to a dharmic view of reality.

By the way, to all you people of Iranian origin... We know that there is some ancient connection between the Vedic people and the ancient Iranians. I suspect that beneath the Muslim incrustation, there is a natural inclination deep in the Iranian soul for the more 'mystical' and 'yogic' approach to spirituality of the Indians. Then again, I could be wrong. That might just be a crude ethnic argument...

crazy canuck

Joined: 20 Mar 2004
Posts: 6391

Posted: Wed Sep 08, 2004 2:52 pm Post subject:

Quote:

“However they do not get unbiased education in some subjects such as Communism and Islam.” “Americans learned Communism basically in a wrong way.”

Dear Humanist,

I was in US in about middle 60s. U.S. had come out of well known Maccarthy era. In those days( IN 50S) even studying or talking about Marxism, learning Das Capital was taboo subject. People who were caught with supposedly commie material, a membership, travel to commie countries paid a heavy price. Their professional lives were ruined, lost jobs, were forced to move abroad. The effect lingered on. This is no way of studying communism or Islam. In those days people had first question for me. Is Nehru communist, may be he was. But such an obsession its hard to believe its coming from highly literate culture. If you are blinded by your enemy, IF YOU FEAR HIM MORE THAN LORD HIMSELF, you cant fight him or understand him. Regards C.C.

piggy

Joined: 13 Feb 2004
Posts: 6372
Location: Godwana

Posted: Wed Sep 08, 2004 3:01 pm Post subject: Re: cruelty

Benjamin wrote:

It is far wiser to cultivate the benevolent side of Christianity for the time being. And eventually, like Thoreau and Emerson, more and more Christians will naturally 'graduate' to a dharmic view of reality.

I think that the "benevolent side" of christianity is the same benevolence that was actually preached by Christ, which apparently is a "dharmic view of reality".

I have not seen any recorded instruction from Christ to form religions, engage or practice rituals, or mass-prayer, or to build temples.

True christianity is a state of being.

Kanad

Joined: 24 Apr 2004
Posts: 610

Posted: Wed Sep 08, 2004 4:57 pm Post subject: Re: Education

Humanist wrote:

Kanad wrote:

I hate to discuss personal matters. Since you question about my educational background, I will give you my background. Not only did I go to Graduate School in one of the top level universities in Eastern US, I did my Ph.D. in one of Natural Sciences . And I taught in two US universities at undergraduate level for many years. After that I switched career and went into Librarianship. Believe it or not I was a librarian in one of the major libraries of Harvard University.
I did my graduate work during the peak of Vietnam war. I have studied Vietnam war in as detail as one can do. By all honest accounts Vietnam War was a crime that Americans(Anglo-Saxon) committed on a harmless agrarian country. To do that Americans were duped into believing that they were fighting cummunist demons and they were fitghing to protect American National interests and pride. Only after 50000 plastic body bags came back to USA did the Americans begin to realize that they were duped. American power structure dropped more bombs on that poor, agrarian society than the total tonnage of bombs Allied Forces dropped on Hitler's Germany! Read up on Allende's Chile. Again Americans committed a heinous crime there. Those Americans were not Afro-Americans, Chinese or Japanese Americans. They all came from Anglo-Saxon stock.
Inspite of all the good things that Anglo-Saxons have been doing for humanity for hundreds of years we simply can not overlook the criminal aspect of Anglo-Saxon thought processes. These thought processes did not develop in 1954. They have evolved over thousand years. They will continue well into future.
_________________
BANNED FOR CALLS TO GENOCIDE

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