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Al-Kitaab, Embryology and Cloning (Amazing Birth)
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Abudosama

Joined: 18 Feb 2004
Posts: 1126
Location: Planet Earth

Posted: Wed Jul 28, 2004 11:19 am Post subject:

TH Huxlaiy

Quote:

Why did he do it?
One might speculate on the reasons Dr. Moore might have for this travesty of embryology, but actually the answer is a simple one. He was quite well paid by the Saudi government for the use of his name, and for no real additional work. The textbook he delivered to the Saudi Universities that commissioned the work is titled, "The Developing Human: Clinically Oriented Embryology with Islamic Additions." (ISBN 0-7216-6472-5).

As you people are being paid by Jews for this site.
_________________
SALAM-UN-ALAIKUM, to All brothers & Sisters in Islam(submition) and Eemaan(Peace).

Good Wishes and blessing of their god or no god to non-Muslim (who lack submission and Peace).

dragonpoo

Joined: 01 Jun 2004
Posts: 526
Location: UK

Posted: Wed Jul 28, 2004 12:01 pm Post subject:

maybe everyone on this site, including abudosama, is actually the same Jew. He's writing all the messages himself to trick ppl into thinking that there are lots of people who post here.

THHuxley

Joined: 20 Feb 2004
Posts: 2474
Location: Denver, Colorado

Posted: Wed Jul 28, 2004 5:25 pm Post subject:

Abudosama wrote:

TH Huxlaiy

As you people are being paid by Jews for this site.

I could be getting paid for this?

Why didn't anybody tell me?

_________________
Nullius in Verba

farside

Joined: 16 Feb 2004
Posts: 439
Location: The Other Side

Posted: Wed Jul 28, 2004 9:11 pm Post subject:

Abudosama, you are right. I've just received a royalty check for 10 million dollars from FFI for writing my thought-provoking posts. A chest of gold lies at the end of a day's work for the best writers of FFI. Kind Regards, Farside

pilgrim

Joined: 22 Feb 2004
Posts: 2054

Posted: Thu Jul 29, 2004 1:16 am Post subject:

Abudosama wrote:

Creation Of Man
http://it-is-truth.org/CreationOfMan.shtml

Quote:

We present Professor Emeritus Keith Moore, one of the worlds prominent scientists of anatomy and embryology.

When we asked Professor Moore to give us his analysis of the Qur'aanic verses and prophetic statements, he was amazed. He wondered how the Prophet Muhammad (sallAllahu alaihi wa sallam), fourteen centuries ago, could describe the embryo and its development phase in such detail and accuracy, which scientists have come to know only in the last thirty years. Very quickly, however, Professor Moores amazement grew into admiration for this revelation and guidance. He introduced these views to intellectual and scientific circles. He even gave a lecture on the compatibility of modern embryology with the Qur'aan and Sunnah where he stated:

Quran's fuzzy description of embryo resembles what Galen had been teaching in the 2nd century A.D.

There was much interaction going on between the Roman Greco regions, Hebrews, the Levant, North Africa and Persia, not to mention contacts as far as India and China. Arabs were not isolated but engaged in trade with non Arabs. Much of general knowledge was widely difused. It is just that Quran (if reports of Arab Muslims are accurate) was among the first Arab publications and contained what Arabs considered important or curious as the case with embryo.

http://www.cmf.org.uk/index.htm?nucleus/nucapr97/embryo.htm

Here are some excerpts.
We must ask if seventh-century Muslims at the time of Muhammad could have known this. In Genesis 38:9 the Bible tells us that Onan 'spilled his semen on the ground to keep from producing offspring for his brother'. This predates Muhammad by centuries and does not prove divine authorship, as it is simply a direct observation of what is released in the act of sexual intercourse.

The Greek physician Hippocrates taught in the fifth century BC that semen comes from all the fluid in the body, diffusing from the brain into the spinal marrow, before passing through the kidneys and testicles into the penis.[2] This teaching was well-known in Muhammad's day, and may well explain why the Qur'an contains such an erroneous statement.

In fact the account of the different stages in embryology as described by the Qur'an is virtually identical to that taught by Galen, writing in Turkey around 150 A.D, who taught that the embryo developed in four stages.[3] The first is an unformed white conceptus like semen, the second a bloody vascularised foetus, the third when other features are mapped out but not fully formed, and the fourth when all the organs are well formed and joints freely moveable. Either the author of the Qur'an knew this when writing the Qur'an, or else he was describing the clot which appears when a woman is having a miscarriage. Since we know that Muhammad had at least nine wives this is entirely possible, but it does mean that the alaqa is not the stage of embryological development that some would have us believe.

best regards

Abudosama

Joined: 18 Feb 2004
Posts: 1126
Location: Planet Earth

Posted: Thu Aug 05, 2004 6:44 pm Post subject:

Pilgrim

Quote:

Here are some excerpts.
We must ask if seventh-century Muslims at the time of Muhammad could have known this. In Genesis 38:9 the Bible tells us that Onan 'spilled his semen on the ground to keep from producing offspring for his brother'. This predates Muhammad by centuries and does not prove divine authorship, as it is simply a direct observation of what is released in the act of sexual intercourse.

The complete Bile Quotation is :-

Quote:

Judah and Tamar
Genesis 38:1 At that time, Judah left his brothers and went down to stay with a man of Adullam named Hirah.
Genesis 38:2 There Judah met the daughter of a Canaanite man named Shua. He married her and lay with her;
Genesis 38:3 she became pregnant and gave birth to a son, who was named Er.
Genesis 38:4 She conceived again and gave birth to a son and named him Onan.
Genesis 38:5 She gave birth to still another son and named him Shelah. It was at Kezib that she gave birth to him.
Genesis 38:6 Judah got a wife for Er, his firstborn, and her name was Tamar.
Genesis 38:7 But Er, Judah's firstborn, was wicked in the LORD's sight; so the LORD put him to death.
Genesis 38:8 Then Judah said to Onan, "Lie with your brother's wife and fulfill your duty to her as a brother-in-law to produce offspring for your brother."
Genesis 38:9 But Onan knew that the offspring would not be his; so whenever he lay with his brother's wife, he spilled his semen on the ground to keep from producing offspring for his brother.

So The Judha disobeyd the Christ?
LEVITICUS 20: 10, DEATH to both, If sex done with married women.

Quote:

GENESIS 38:15-18- Incest between Father-In-law (Judah) and daughter-In-law (Tamar).
GENESIS 38:15 When Judah saw her, he thought she was a prostitute, for she had covered her face.
GENESIS 38:16 Not realizing that she was his daughter-in-law, he went over to her by the roadside and said, "Come now, let me sleep with you."
"And what will you give me to sleep with you?" she asked.
GENESIS 38:17 "I'll send you a young goat from my flock," he said.
"Will you give me something as a pledge until you send it?" she asked.
GENESIS 38:18 He said, "What pledge should I give you?"
"Your seal and its cord, and the staff in your hand," she answered. So he gave them to her and slept with her, and she became pregnant by him. GENESIS 38:19 After she left, she took off her veil and put on her widow's clothes again.

LEVITICUS 20: 12, DEATH to both, If sex done with daughter in Law.

Quote:

The Greek physician Hippocrates taught in the fifth century BC that semen comes from all the fluid in the body, diffusing from the brain into the spinal marrow, before passing through the kidneys and testicles into the penis.[2] This teaching was well-known in Muhammad's day, and may well explain why the Qur'an contains such an erroneous statement

Quote:

In fact the account of the different stages in embryology as described by the Qur'an is virtually identical to that taught by Galen, writing in Turkey around 150 A.D, who taught that the embryo developed in four stages.[3] The first is an unformed white conceptus like semen, the second a bloody vascularised foetus, the third when other features are mapped out but not fully formed, and the fourth when all the organs are well formed and joints freely moveable.

• So The Muhammad was learned man?

Quote:

Either the author of the Qur'an knew this when writing the Qur'an, or else he was describing the clot which appears when a woman is having a miscarriage. Since we know that Muhammad had at least nine wives this is entirely possible, but it does mean that the alaqa is not the stage of embryological development that some would have us believe.

• - The Greek, Turkish, Egyption and Europen women never have abortion so that their husbands would have come to know various stages of embrio ?

•All gynecologists wer dumb and deaf and do not have clinical observations before Al-kitaab introduced it.
_________________
SALAM-UN-ALAIKUM, to All brothers & Sisters in Islam(submition) and Eemaan(Peace).

Good Wishes and blessing of their god or no god to non-Muslim (who lack submission and Peace).

THHuxley

Joined: 20 Feb 2004
Posts: 2474
Location: Denver, Colorado

Posted: Thu Aug 05, 2004 7:00 pm Post subject:

Abudosama wrote:

So The Judha disobeyd the Christ?

Judah lived centuries before Jesus. How could he have disobeyed him?

Abudosama wrote:

LEVITICUS 20: 10, DEATH to both, If sex done with married women.

She wasn't married. She was a widow. Can't you read?

Abudosama wrote:

So The Muhammad was learned man?

It doesn't matter how "learned he was." He was a 7th century Arab warlord. So he was at least very smart and had lots of people around him, some of who were "learned." In particular one, Harith Ibn Kalada, was a companion of Muhammad, trained in medicine at the great medical school of Jundi-Shapur and thus was intimately acquainted with the medical teachings of Aristotle, Hippocrates and Galen.

It's not just what you know. It's also who you know.

Abudosama wrote:

The Greek, Turkish, Egyption and Europen women never have abortion so that their husbands would have come to know various stages of embrio ?

You've never heard of a miscarriage?

Abudosama wrote:

All gynecologists wer dumb and deaf and do not have clinical observations before Al-kitaab introduced it.

Well, even though this is nonsense, it doesn't matter anyway. Because the Qur'ans' descriptions are wrong.
_________________
Nullius in Verba

Abudosama

Joined: 18 Feb 2004
Posts: 1126
Location: Planet Earth

Posted: Tue Sep 14, 2004 8:02 pm Post subject:

THUG-LAY

Quote:

Well, even though this is nonsense, it doesn't matter anyway. Because the Qur'ans' descriptions are wrong.

• - Can you define it?
_________________
SALAM-UN-ALAIKUM, to All brothers & Sisters in Islam(submition) and Eemaan(Peace).

Good Wishes and blessing of their god or no god to non-Muslim (who lack submission and Peace).

THHuxley

Joined: 20 Feb 2004
Posts: 2474
Location: Denver, Colorado

Posted: Tue Sep 14, 2004 11:21 pm Post subject:

Abudosama wrote:

THUG-LAY

Quote:

Well, even though this is nonsense, it doesn't matter anyway. Because the Qur'ans' descriptions are wrong.

• - Can you define it?

Sure.

“Islamic embryology” is derived from both the Qur’an and the hadith, and is quite consistent across all the contributing sources. The core of the story can be found in the Qur’an, 022.005:

Quote:

YUSUFALI: “O mankind! if ye have a doubt about the Resurrection, (consider) that We created you out of dust, then out of sperm, then out of a leech-like clot, then out of a morsel of flesh, partly formed and partly unformed, in order that We may manifest (our power) to you; and We cause whom We will to rest in the wombs for an appointed term, then do We bring you out as babes…”
PICKTHAL: “O mankind! if ye are in doubt concerning the Resurrection, then lo! We have created you from dust, then from a drop of seed, then from a clot, then from a little lump of flesh shapely and shapeless, that We may make (it) clear for you. And We cause what We will to remain in the wombs for an appointed time, and afterward We bring you forth as infants…”
SHAKIR: “O people! if you are in doubt about the raising, then surely We created you from dust, then from a small seed, then from a clot, then from a lump of flesh, complete in make and incomplete, that We may make clear to you; and We cause what We please to stay in the wombs till an appointed time, then We bring you forth as babies…”

Here we find the three primary stages of embryonic development as defined by the Qur’an. There is a “seed,” “drop” or “semen” phase (in Arabic, “nutfah”), followed by a “clot” or “leach-like clot” phase (in Arabic, “alaqah”), followed finally by a “morsel of flesh” or “chewed lump” phase (in Arabic, “mudghah”).

There are a handful of additional ayaat that deal with this subject, and none of them disagree with this basic scenario. Yet there is more to learn from the hadith, particularly that of Bukhari and Muslim. Again, the accounts are quite consistent, and the additional information they provide is important.

The first of these tells us about developmental timing:

Quote:

Sahih Bukhari Volume 4, Book 54, Number 430:

“Narrated 'Abdullah bin Mus'ud:

“Allah's Apostle, the true and truly inspired said, "(The matter of the Creation of) a human being is put together in the womb of the mother in forty days, and then he becomes a clot of thick blood for a similar period, and then a piece of flesh for a similar period.”

These exact details are also given in Sahih Bukhari Volume 4, Book 55, Number 549. Sahih Bukhari Volume 8, Book 77, Number 593, Sahih Bukhari Volume 9, Book 93, Number 546, and Sahih Muslim Book 033, Number 6390.

The key information gained from all these ahadith are that the three phases (nutfah, alaqah and mudghah) each takes 40 days, for a total period of 120 days from conception to the point at which the embryo becomes a fetus.

One additional piece of testable scientific information is available in the hadith. It has to do with the point at which gender is determined. A representative hadith would be Sahih Bukhari Volume 8, Book 77, Number 594:

Quote:

“Narrated Anas bin Malik:

“The Prophet said, "Allah puts an angel in charge of the uterus and the angel says, 'O Lord, (it is) semen! O Lord, (it is now) a clot! O Lord, (it is now) a piece of flesh.' And then, if Allah wishes to complete its creation, the angel asks, 'O Lord, (will it be) a male or a female?”

This detail is repeated in Sahih Bukhari Volume 4, Book 55, Number 550 and Sahih Muslim Book 033, Number 6397, and all of them are quite clear that the embryo is neither male nor female until after the mudghah phase is reached, some 80 days (by Islamic counting) after conception.

So, then, these are the details of embryology as reflected in the Qur’an and the hadith.

1) The embryo spends 40 days as a drop of sperm or seed.
2) The embryo then spends another 40 days as a “clot” or a “leech-like clot” of blood.
3) The embryo then spends another 40 days as a “lump of flesh.”
4) During which the gender of the child is assigned by an angel at Allah’s direction.

These then are the details that must be correlated with actual embryonic development to evaluate the accuracy or inaccuracy of the Islamic account. The question is actually a simple one:

Does this account describe the first 120 days of embryonic development or doesn’t it?

Discussion one: The Islamic Phases - Timing

Taken together, the three phases of Islamic embryology take 120 days to go from conception to the point where the embryo becomes a fetus (i.e. an identifiable human baby), or right around 17 weeks. Does this reflect what we now know about embryonic development?

The answer is patently, no. The human embryo becomes a fetus around week 9, or roughly half the time Islamic embryology requires. By day 56 the fetus is essentially a complete, though tiny, human being with all organ systems in place, and all tissues developed. This is right in the middle of what Islam calls the “alaqah” phase. In other words, the developing person is already a complete human being at a point where the hadith insists it (not he or she) still has almost three weeks remaining as a “clot of congealed blood.”

In fact, there are no developmental milestones which can be mapped to the three 40 day periods required by Islamic embryology, even though they are stressed in several authoritative ahadith.

Conclusion: The hadith is demonstrably wrong concerning the timing of embryologic development.

Discussion two: The Islamic Phases – Description

The three Islamic phases of development are described in a very visual way, allowing for an informed evaluation of the accuracy of those descriptions. This might be expected if for no other reason than that during the Prophet’s day, there was not even the idea of a microscope, and any descriptions offered would reasonably be of objects that were visible to an unaided eye. And this is exactly what we find.

And certainly, each of the three Islamic stages is described at a visible level of scale. A drop of seed, a clot of blood, a lump of flesh; all of them are objects of a size with which the ancient Arabs would have been familiar.

The “Drop of Seed” Phase (Nutfah)

There is little to no debate among Muslims as to the meaning of the word, “nutfah.” It is a “drop of seed” or “drop of semen” of the sort that would have been familiar to any adult Arab male. The Arabs rightly understood (as did all of their non-Arab neighbors) that semen was necessary to begin the process of procreation. But, exactly as with all their non-Arab neighbors, the writers of the Qur’an and the hadith did not seem to understand that there was an egg produced by the mother that is fertilized by the male’s semen.

The Arabs believed that the woman served simply as an incubator for a child that was fully contained in the father’s seed. There was no understanding of the actual biology of sexual reproduction, and no such understanding is apparent in the Qur’an.

Instead, the Qur’an tells us that the “drop of seed” remains exactly that (a drop of seed) for the entire nutfah phase (40 days according to Bukhari and Muslim). What actually IS happening during those 40 days, and how might it be said to resemble a “drop of seed?”

The actual “drop of seed” provided by the male dissipates within minutes of ejaculation, so even before conception, the literal “drop of seed” no longer exists. The case could certainly be made that the fertilized egg resembles a seed until about day 13 or fourteen, but the “drop” is long gone, replaced with a microscopic egg that moves through a period called the “blastocyst.” But by the beginning of the third week, the embryo has already begun to differentiate into a trilaminar embryo with the three layers of ectoderm, mesoderm, and endoderm. A mere two and a half weeks after conception, the embryo no longer looks anything like a “drop of seed,” while the Islamic tradition indicates that the nutfah stage should last for an additional three weeks.

By day 40 of actual embryonic development (when the “drop” stage should be just ending and the “clot” stage beginning) the embryo is actually very well advanced. Measuring some 11 millimeters long, and the nervous system is well along its development. The embryo has eyes and ears, all four limbs have begun to form, the heart bulge is prominent. It bears no resemblance at this point to either a “drop of seed” or a “leech-like clot.”

Interim Conclusion: The Qur’an is in error describing the embryo as a “drop of seed” for any significant period of time, and certainly wrong in assigning a 40 day period to such a phase.

The “Leech-Like Clot” Phase (Alaqah)

The word “alaqah” is a bit more ambiguous than “nutfah,” and so has been translated a bit more flexibly by Islamic apologists. Although consistently translated as a “clot of blood” by multiple translators, there are a handful of instances where it is rendered as “a leech-like clot.” This is the phase that (according to Bukhari and Muslim) should last from about day 41 to day 80 after conception.

Among the many images of Allah’s creative power reflected in the Qur’an and the hadith, the image of man having been created from a clot of blood is one of the most common, showing up over a dozen times in the Qur’an, Sahih Bukhari and Sahih Muslim alone.

What actually IS happening during those 40 days, and how might it be said to resemble a “leech-like clot?”

The period of development covered by the “alaqah” stage includes from week six until week eleven after conception. The first two weeks of this “phase” actually encompass the final two weeks of embryonic development, for at that point the baby is essentially completely formed, and from here on out is known as a fetus.

Interestingly, at no time during this period (or any period for that matter) does the embryo or fetus resemble a “clot.” And while dependence of the placenta might be described as being vaguely “leech-like” in that it is attached to the uterine wall, no one would ever confuse the embryo or fetus with a leech.

This is as good a point as any to point out that embryonic development is essentially over by day 56, or in less than one half of the time described by Islamic embryology.

For over three weeks of the supposed “alaqah” phase, rather than a “leech-like clot” the fetus is actually a fully formed human being, ranging in size from 35 mm to about 80 mm in length.

Interim Conclusion: The Qur’an and hadith are in error describing the embryo as a “leech-like clot” for any period of time, and certainly wrong in assigning the period from 41 to 80 days for such a phase.

The “Lump of Flesh” Phase – (Mudghah)

The Arabic word “Mudghah” is uniformly described as a “lump” or “morsel of flesh.” Sometimes, it is more descriptively referred to as a “chewed lump of meat.” According to the hadith, this phase would cover day 81 to 120 of fetal development, or weeks 12 through 17.

However, rather than a “lump” of anything, this period is one primarily of increasing size for the already fully formed fetus. During this period of time the fetus grows finger and toenails, begins to grow hair, and by the end of it the mother is beginning to feel the child’s movements. At no time during these weeks does the fetus look like anything other than an obvious human being.

If there were anytime during which the embryo might be described as a “lump of flesh,” that would have been much earlier, perhaps during the fourth week. But even then, the embryo was quite organized and complex, hardly “chewed” in any sense of the word.

Interim Conclusion: The Qur’an and hadith are in error describing the embryo as a “morsel of flesh” for any significant period of time, and certainly wrong in assigning the period from 81 to 120 days for such a phase.

Conclusion: The three Qur’anic phases are impossible to conform with actual embryonic development, and that problem is only magnified by the timing of those phases as prescribed by the hadith. There are no actual phases that can be correlated to nutfah, alaqah or mudghah, and the level of development that Islam asserts takes 120 days actually takes less than half of it.

Discussion 3 – Gender

According to multiple ahadith, it is only after the mudghah phase (days 81-120) that an angel of the Lord determines the gender of the baby. But in fact, modern genetics shows that the gender of the baby is determined at the moment of conception, and is therefore already set some four months before Islam asserts the question is even asked of Allah.

Conclusion: The authors of the Qur’an and the hadith had no idea as to the genetic nature of gender, and assumed wrongly that it was assigned by Allah months after it was actually determined by genetics. The Islamic model is wrong again.

Some Notes on the Interpretations of Dr. Keith Moore

Dr. Keith L. Moore, Ph.D., F.I.A.C. of the Department of Anatomy, University of Toronto, Canada, has become a favorite of Islamic apologists ever since he accepted an invitation to produce a special edition of his Embryology Text Book specifically for use by Muslim students in Islamic Universities.

In articles published widely across Islamic web sites, Dr. Moore goes on the record to provide a generous assessment of the Qur’an and hadith in the light of modern knowledge about embryology. But a review of his “analysis” shows the extent to which he had to twist both the Islamic scriptures and modern science in order to get the “facts” to correlate.

Specifically, Moore’s intellectual lapses are these:

1) He liberally translates Arabic into terms that no Arabic speaker would consider justified, but that allows him to pretend the Arabic is closer to truth than it really is. For example, in spite of the fact that almost three dozen translations of “alaqah” found on line never once exclude the word “clot,” Moore writes instead that “The word "alaqah" refers to a leech or bloods*cker.”

2) He completely ignores the timing of phases dictated by the hadith, for to consider them renders even his mistranslation unintelligible. For example, after mistranslating “alaqah” to mean “a leech or bloodsucker,” he then compares it to the human embryo at 24 days gestation. But 24 days is still firmly within the “nutfah” phase, when the embryo should actually look like a “drop of seed.” He does the same with “mudghah,” comparing it with the embryo at 28 days, still in the “nutfah” phase and only four days later than he had assigned to “alaqah.”

One might speculate on the reasons Dr. Moore might have for this travesty of embryology, but actually the answer is a simple one. He was apparently quite well paid for essentially no real additional work. The textbook he delivered to the Saudi Universities that commissioned the work is titled, "The Developing Human: Clinically Oriented Embryology with Islamic Additions." (ISBN 0-7216-6472-5).

The base textbook is work that Moore had apparently completed years before, while the “Islamic Additions” appear to be the work of an Abdul-Majeed A. Azzindani, and not Dr. Moore’s at all.

And an interesting side bar (of no real importance, but entertaining none the less) is that the Acknowledgments for the book recognize a number of “distinguished scholars” who supported the book with time or money. And number 6 on the list?

Sheik Osamah bin Ladin.
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Abudosama

Joined: 18 Feb 2004
Posts: 1126
Location: Planet Earth

Posted: Thu Sep 16, 2004 6:54 pm Post subject:

THUG-LAY

Quote:

• - Cant you restrict your self with Ayaat, lets see your indepth visionary knowledge. I do not even read all nonsences written by Irani shias, Tibarie, Bokharie, Neishaporie, Tirmidhie, sistanie and Qazveinie.

Quote:

Yet there is more to learn from the hadith, particularly that of Bukhari and Muslim. Again, the accounts are quite consistent, and the additional information they provide is important.

• - May be important to you not for Muslims.
_________________
SALAM-UN-ALAIKUM, to All brothers & Sisters in Islam(submition) and Eemaan(Peace).

Good Wishes and blessing of their god or no god to non-Muslim (who lack submission and Peace).

Iznogoodh

Joined: 14 Feb 2004
Posts: 970

Posted: Thu Sep 16, 2004 8:56 pm Post subject:

Abudosama wrote:

THUG-LAY

Quote:

Yet there is more to learn from the hadith, particularly that of Bukhari and Muslim. Again, the accounts are quite consistent, and the additional information they provide is important.

• - May be important to you not for Muslims.

Oh. Are hadiths suddenly not important anymore for Muslims? Well, if THAT isn't news!

Iznogoodh
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spider man

Joined: 03 Jul 2004
Posts: 543
Location: UNITED kINGDOM

Posted: Thu Sep 16, 2004 9:31 pm Post subject:

Mohammed raped someones wife. Mohammed raped someones sister Mohammed raped someone mother Mohammed raped his daughter-in-law :-0 :O shocking. Dear abubu do you deny this??? MY PREDICTION - Abubu will start name calling very soon. _________________ Muslims what if: 1. Ur father was killed in a holy war 2. Ur mothers/sisters were raped in holy war Would u convert to this peaceful relgion? :O

THHuxley

Joined: 20 Feb 2004
Posts: 2474
Location: Denver, Colorado

Posted: Wed Sep 22, 2004 3:16 am Post subject:

Abudosama wrote:

Cant you restrict your self with Ayaat, lets see your indepth visionary knowledge.

I could, but that would be improper tafseer.
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Abudosama

Joined: 18 Feb 2004
Posts: 1126
Location: Planet Earth

Posted: Sun Sep 26, 2004 8:41 pm Post subject:

spider man

Quote:

shocking. Dear abubu do you deny this???

• - I can't deny may be true because afffectee save the data, and have upto date knowledge.
• - as you have
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SALAM-UN-ALAIKUM, to All brothers & Sisters in Islam(submition) and Eemaan(Peace).

Good Wishes and blessing of their god or no god to non-Muslim (who lack submission and Peace).

Abudosama

Joined: 18 Feb 2004
Posts: 1126
Location: Planet Earth

Posted: Sun Nov 14, 2004 6:09 pm Post subject:

EID MUBBARICK TO ALL PEACE MAKERS. _________________ SALAM-UN-ALAIKUM, to All brothers & Sisters in Islam(submition) and Eemaan(Peace). Good Wishes and blessing of their god or no god to non-Muslim (who lack submission and Peace).

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