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life is our test
Joined: 16 Mar 2006 Posts: 98
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Posted: Thu Mar 16, 2006 5:11 pm Post subject: |
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Dear Christians
We Muslims share with you the belief that Jesus was the Messiah sent by God. Islam differs from Christianity mainly in the following teachings of your Churches:-
(a) That God is a Trinity (b) That Jesus is God (c) That Salvation is through the death of Jesus.
Where in the teachings of Jesus do you find these central teachings of the Christian Church? Do you accept and follow the teachings of Jesus or someone else?
What Jesus taught was
(a) God is One
"And this is Eternal Life that they might know THEE THE ONLY TRUE GOD and Jesus Christ whom Thou has sent." John 17:3
"While I was with them in the world I kept them in THY NAME..." John 17:12
"But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and truth: for the Father seeks such as worship Him." John 4:23
"And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? There is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments." Mt 19:17
Paul did not believe in the Trinity either
"For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus" 1 Tim 2:5
"There is actually to us one God the Father,...and there is one Lord, Jesus Christ" 1 Corinthians 8
"One God and Father of all, who is over all and through all and in all" Eph 4
"And ye are Christ's, and Christ is God's" 1 Corinthians 3:23
(b) Jesus was sent by God
"I do nothing of myself; but as the Father hath taught me, I speak these things." John 8:28
"For I have not spoken of myself; but the Father which sent me, he gave me a commandment, what I should say, and what I should speak." John 12:49
"If I do not the works of my Father, believe me not. But if I do, though ye believe not me, believe the works: that ye may know, and believe, that the Father is in me, and I in him." John 10:37-38
"He that hears my word and believes on Him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come unto condemnation, but is passed from death into life." John 5:24
But "Jesus answered them, and said, My doctrine is not mine, but his that sent me." John 7:16
"And about the ninth hour Jesus cried with a loud voice, saying, Eli, Eli,lama sabachthani? that is to say, My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?" Matthew 27:46
"And the Father himself, which hath sent me, hath borne witness of me. Ye have neither heard his voice at any time, nor seen his shape." John 5:37
(c) Salvation is by obedience to God.
"Not every one that says unto me Lord, Lord shall enter into the kingdom of heaven, but He THAT DOETH THE WILL OF MY FATHER WHICH IS IN HEAVEN. Many will say to me in that Day: Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? And in thy name done many wonderful works? And then will I profess unto them, I NEVER KNEW YOU: DEPART FROM ME, YE THAT WORK INIQUITY." Matthew 7:21-23
"Jesus answered: Verily, verily, I say unto thee: Except a man be born of water and of the spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. That which is born of flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. Marvel not that I said unto thee: Ye must be born again." John 3:5-7 |
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Always_Kafir
Joined: 07 Mar 2005 Posts: 2530
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Posted: Thu Mar 16, 2006 5:13 pm Post subject: |
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Several Other Muslims-Turned-Christian-Pastors Murdered by Muslim Extremists in Iran
Pastor Mohammed Bajher Yusefi
Rev. Mehdi Dibaj
Rev. Tateos Mikaelian
Rev. Haik Hovsepian-Mehr
Rev. Hossein Soodmand
http://www.farsinet.com/dibaj/yusefi.html |
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Always_Kafir
Joined: 07 Mar 2005 Posts: 2530
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Posted: Thu Mar 16, 2006 5:14 pm Post subject: |
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35. Pastor Hormoz Shariat Ph.D(in Computers) - Iranian Ex-Muslim, Former Research Scientist in Artificial Intelligence, Now Tele-Evangelist, Bringing the Gospel to Iran.
CBN.com – The Real Revolution
Broadcasting the Gospel into Iran was never something Hormoz thought he would do. He was one of the students who marched in the streets against the Shah of Iran.
Donnell, an American, met Hormoz through Hormoz's brother, who had studied in the United States earlier. Donnell later went to Iran where she met Hormoz. Though she grew up in church, Donnell converted to Islam and they married. In 1979 Hormoz and Donnell came to the United States to attend USC, and while here, Ayottollah Khomeni came to power.
Hormoz was a good student but felt something was lacking in his life. "I was looking for the answer in politics," he says, not having found what he needed in Islam. He tried to be a "good person" but still felt empty.
His unrest was also exacerbated by his loveless marriage. The marriage had deteriorated to such a point that they had set a date to divorce – Oct 1,1980. "I searched my heart and thought I needed more," Hormoz says. "Maybe there was a spiritual side to life that I was missing." Divorce wouldn’t answer the emptiness in his heart, he says.
Being a research scientist, Hormoz then reasoned that he could search out the meaning of life, and in July he began reading the Koran. As an "independent thinker," he read the Koran, got some answers, but still felt empty.
For the sake of intellectual honesty, he got a Bible and started to read that. Donnell had one but never read it, he says. At first he thought Jesus would be like the figure in the Koran, but the more he read it, the more he realized that "Jesus didn’t look like the prophet in the Koran." Jesus seemed strong and confident.
Hormoz liked his teachings, especially the Sermon on the Mount, but they were troubling to accept. "I liked Him and I didn’t like Him," Hormoz says. The Sermon was nice but not practical. Who can live like that? "God used that," he says. "This convicted me. If this is the standard, we’re all sinners." Hormoz was in a tortuous state for some time. He couldn’t accept or not accept Christ. He would throw the Bible away only to go back and retrieve it. He knew he had to get to the end of this.
Donnell saw him studying these books. In the meantime, she was unhappy as well. While working late one night at her job, the Guatemalan janitor who barely spoke English witnessed to her. He told her that Jesus loved her. When Hormoz told her what he was doing, Donnell said the janitor had invited them to his church, Church of the Open Door. They went, and were befriended by someone who invited them to their home and explained the full Gospel. Donnell didn’t want to go to hell and so she accepted Christ. Hormoz kept attending church but was full of questions that he eventually brought to the pastor. Though many questions were unanswered, the pastor told him to accept Christ "on what you do know." Hormoz accepted Christ and everything made sense!
On Oct 1, he went back to the pastor to discuss the impending divorce and was shocked when he saw the Scripture about God hating divorce. Divorce is a lot easier in Islam, he says. God did a miracle in their marriage, he says. By faith they stayed together and the Lord gradually changed them. "There was no love, but God created love because He is a Creator," Hormoz says. They have been married for 26 years and have three children.
The Unreachable
Hormoz grew in the Lord and completed his studies in the late '80s. He started a Bible study and they prayed for Muslims. The Lord brought Muslims to them. By 1988 he started a church.
One day in 1990 he was in his office and was appreciating how good his life was. Working in the field of artificial intelligence was like a game to him, and he thanked God for it. But the Lord challenged him one day: "You want to be paid big money to play games the rest of your life?" "I decided I wanted to invest my life into something that was eternal," he says.
By 1991 over 100 Muslims came to Christ and Hormoz realized that the Lord was calling him into full-time ministry. In 1997 the Lord expanded the ministry when he began a 30-minute local cable show. By 2001, suddenly, the satellites opened up in Iran and they could broadcast in Farsi. Through many challenges the Lord has moved mightily in this work.
Hormoz never envisioned this for his life. They are now on the air nine hours weekly in Iran – one hour of primetime at 10:00 p.m. The response has been tremendous. The show is now one hour, and because some of the shows are on live in primetime, they can interact directly with the audience via e-mail, fax, and telephone. The show airs also in the United States, Europe, Canada, and the Middle East. Hormoz can conservatively say there are 50,000 converts that he knows of.
When many of his congregants go home to visit family in Iran, they tell of the mighty move of God and how so many are coming to Christ. When they witness, many are hungry and accept Christ on the spot. Many testimonies have come in. One is of a Taxi driver who talked with a passenger who said she came to Christ by watching TV. In Iran on a family visit, one church member saw seven women standing at a bus stop. The Lord told her to go speak to them. The ladies were shocked when she said God talked to her and four accepted Christ; two wanted to think it over.
Several viewers said that Jesus appeared to them in visions and they wanted to know what this meant. In a vision, one saw himself in a vast field in the wilderness. He was lost. Suddenly, a tall bright man like an angel appeared to him. When the man said he was lost, the angel pointed toward a direction. The man looked and saw a cross and Jesus was on it. At the foot of the cross, a river of light suddenly fell on him and he felt so much peace. He did not want to wake up because the peace left. "Now would you please tell me what is the interpretation of this dream?" he asked. Hormoz was happy to explain this to him. The big challenge now is to train leaders in the home churches.
http://www.700clubkids.net/700club/guests/bios/Hormoz_Shariat_021104.asp
Website : www.iam-online.net
Last edited by Always_Kafir on Thu Mar 23, 2006 3:26 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Always_Kafir
Joined: 07 Mar 2005 Posts: 2530
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Posted: Thu Mar 16, 2006 5:15 pm Post subject: |
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36. Saleh Hussaini - Former Nigerian Muslim Cleric
From Nigerian Christians Tested by Fire...
http://www.cbn.com/cbnnews/CWN/010613nigeriapersecution.asp
Rev. Yamsat told us, "The Muslims feel like they have to have the upper hand, no one should oppose them.”
He explained, “In the past, the Muslims were the ones in control, economically, politically, and in all other areas. But now they seem to see that things are slipping off their hands.”
They want to be ‘in control,’ so he added, “And the only way to do so is to bring about Jihad, then they can have their control again."
Saleh Hussaini is an evangelist in the northern state of Kano, which is under Islamic sharia law. There, Muslim violence has inflicted a lot of pain on the church there.
Hussaini is a former Muslim cleric who, himself, persecuted Christians until he came to Christ in 1977.
Saleh said, "Most of our women are now widows, they are on the street because of the religious persecution. We have so many children on the street. The church cannot care for them, because the church has not yet seen the need to take these children."
For many Christians the pain they have had to endure in Nigeria will go with them the rest of their lives. One such person is Hajara Magaji.
Last edited by Always_Kafir on Thu Mar 23, 2006 3:27 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Always_Kafir
Joined: 07 Mar 2005 Posts: 2530
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Posted: Thu Mar 16, 2006 5:16 pm Post subject: |
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37. Sam Solomon - a former Muslim scholar
Islamic Scholar: “There is No Forgiveness in Islam”By George Thomas
CWNews
CWNews.com– Sam Solomon, a former Muslim scholar in the Middle East and now a leading Christian apologist in Europe offers his insights on the controversy that has wracked the Muslim world.
George Thomas : Sam, this has been a couple of months since these controversial cartoons came out. Why now? And do you have a sense that there is a sinister plot behind the scenes, that maybe there’s a country, a regime or a people group behind, fueling these riots around the Middle East?
Sam Solomon : Indeed, this is the plan that they want--that is the Islamic world— wants to make it equivalent to the anti-Semitic law that nobody should touch the sanctities of Islam, Mohammed or the Koran or any of their beliefs.
George Thomas : Are you saying…You know, we’ve seen some of these things happen in Australia, where they what they call the ‘vilification’ law, that if you say anything disparaging against Muslims, that it is a crime. Do you have a sense that Muslims in Western Europe and around the world wanted to make this so that people who disparage the prophet Mohammed or other aspects of Islam, will be punished?
Sam Solomon: Indeed, they have just tried that in Britain, they’d asked the British government, the present government, to include it in their Labor Manifesto, and the religious hate crime bill has just been passed in the UK, but in a very watered-down way. So that is what their aim is, across the world.
George Thomas : And, there is some speculation about whether these cartoons were un-Islamic. What is more important, profaning the prophet Mohammed or profaning Allah, himself?
Sam Solomon : Well, of course, in Islam you can, according to the Islamic jurisprudence, you can curse Allah and live, but if you touch or curse the prophet you are instantly killed.
George Thomas: One quick question, as we move on here, the aspect of forgiveness: the Danes, the Norwegians, even the United States has asked for forgiveness, saying that this was wrong. Do the Muslims forgive the Danes, the Norwegians, those that did this?
Sam Solomon : Whosoever insults the prophet, there is no forgiveness. All Islamic legal manuals declare that, the Koran declares it, and it is a settled case. No amount of forgiveness will do. There heads must be given on a platter.
George Thomas : Let’s talk about the impact on the Christian minorities in these countries, like Egypt, Pakistan, and Indonesia. What are the futures for these minority Christians?
Sam Solomon : Extremely grim. The Koran and Islam has clearly defined their relationship, that is of the minorities, basically the Jews and the Christians with the Muslims. And that declaration is that they are the enemies of Allah and therefore they are the enemies of Islam.
George Thomas : You’ve lived in Europe, you’ve seen the emerging growth of Islam, in Europe. What impact are the Muslims having on the European continent?
Sam Solomon : In Europe, of course, they are increasing in strength. However, it’s not about their strength, it is about the strength and the willpower of the Europeans of whether to preserve their rights and the freedom that is God-given to them, or is it that they are going to surrender and capitulate to Islam and its demands.
George Thomas : In the final few seconds, what is the mood there, especially in Western Europe, among Christians? Is there fear or anger, at the moment?
Sam Solomon : The mood is that of dismay, but I hope that common sense will prevail and that Europe will stand in solidarity with one another.
George Thomas : Sam Solomon, an expert on Islamic jurisprudence. Thank you so much for sharing some insight into these very, very difficult times
http://cbn.com/CBNnews/CWN/021006soloman.asp
Last edited by Always_Kafir on Thu Mar 23, 2006 3:27 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Always_Kafir
Joined: 07 Mar 2005 Posts: 2530
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Posted: Thu Mar 16, 2006 5:20 pm Post subject: |
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38. Yusuf Roni - Former Islamic Dawah Missionary, Islamic Youth Organization Chairman, Indonesia - Now Christian Preacher
Testimony of Y. Roni (Palembang - A town in Sumatera, Indonesia).
Since childhood, my family educated me in Islam, which has been our religion from generations for the family of "KEMAS" in Palembang. As the only child, I was taught and "owned" by all family (in Indonesia family can also means - grandparents, etc), means that I was taught by my parents, grandpa, and also my uncles had responsibility to "straighten me up". This is our family sistem that I knew and experience since childhood. So if there was a decision made about me, my parents had no absolute right, because it should have been consulted first by our extended family as I mentioned above.
My grandpa was the one who dominately taught me, that's why I was called Grandpa's son (note: His grandpa was the direct descendant from Daeng Ario Wongso, the son of Tumenggung Nogowongso, the grandson of Prince Fatahillah, it takes 10 generation from Prince Fatahillah to his grandpa).
Because I admired Granpa, whose charm and authority was very enormous in the middle of our family, and in Islamic sociaty in Palembang (!), since childhood I tended to learn about Islam and did the syariat-syariat in the religion well until I grew up consistently.
Rattan was my share (means: being beaten by rattan) since childhood if I was lazy to do religous prayer (ceremony). So hard was my family in teaching me in Islam, that I grew up to be a fanatical follower of Islam!...
After our family moved to Bandung, I was registered to Pesantren YPI (Yayasan Pesantren Islam) - Pesantren is a school to learn Islam - in Jln. Muhammad 16 Bandung, led by Mr. K.H. Udung Abdurahman.
I was active in the Islamic Youth Organization, as:
(1) Chairman of SEPMI (Serikat Pelajar Muslimin Indonesia) Bandung Branch.
(2) Chairman I of SEPMI, West Java Area
(3) Chairman of Lembaga Da'W a h SEPMI Pusat (pusat means the head office or central).
(4) Chairman of Education SEction PSII (Partai Syarikat Islam indonesia, Bandung Branch.
(5) Chairman of Youth Section PSII Bandung....
(6) Chairman of Dawah Section and Youth Indonesian Moslem Pers West Java Area.
(7) Member of GUSII (Gerakan Ulama Syarikat Islam Indonesia = Movement of Ulema Syarikat Islam Indonesia) West Java Area.
( One member of Board of Chairman DPHD KAPPI.
I was active and very keen in defending the Islamic Ideology in any chance, including to stop the growth of Christianity in West Java.
But I never experienced spiritual satisfaction, and my life was always in worry because I never got spiritual peace, even I doubted and wondered about the "guarantee of salvation".
In that situation, I was interested in Jesus Christ who gave the salvation for sure so NOW I get "the peace" from God and now I am in spiritual tranquility since I accepted Jesus as my Saviour...
Why was I interested in Christianity?
I need to explain the reasons I am interested in Christanity. How come Christianity is so interesting, so I willingly shake off Islam that I have adopted since generations and converted to Christianity....
This is not because of the material temptation, or Christians or Priests' sweet words, as people outside Christianity accused that people coverted to Christianity because of material temptation. In this occassion, I would like to explain that that point of view is really wrong.!.....
The truth is, that because "Lord Jesus' calling", personally to everyone He wants. And I myself was very interested because the sureness of salvation that Jesus Christ given in his teachings in the Holy Bible.
In detail, I describe it as follow:
A. The repentance from Sin
(A) The sin
Sin that comes and stay in mankind without exception. No man is sinless. And sin, is still the same...what is sin that burden mankind?
1) The root cause of sin
Since Adam and Eve fell into Iblis' temptation, so mankind lost all the glory of God which was within them. Adam and Eve fell into sin because they broke God's order.
"Snake is the smartest from all the land animal created by God. The snake said to the Woman:"Of course God told you: All the trees in this garden, you cannot eat those fruits, didn't HE?
Then replied the Woman to the snake:
"The fruits of trees in this garden is permissible for us, but about the fruit of tree in the middle of the garden, God told: don't you eat or touch the fruit, because you could DIE!" But the snake said to the Woman:" no, you will not die, but God knows that at the time you eat it, your eyes will be opened and you will be like God, know about the good and the bad."
The woman see that the fruit of the tree is good to eat and look delicious, besides the tree is very tempting because it can gives knowledge.
so she took the fruits and ate it and she gave some to her husband who was with her and her husband ate it!" So that's the first sin and the big consequence and the punishment came soon. Because Adam and Eve has already gotten God's holy characters, so the sin came from outside of them.
It cames from Iblis with the media of the snake.
With Adam and Eve fell into sin, so the holy characters from God disappeared, so that they found themselves naked, after breaking God's order by eating the forbidden fruit.
(2) Inherited Sin
All people was born from sin, it means human has tendency, the behaviour or the character of sin, this is what is meant by inherited sin.
I used to think that inherited since means the sins inherited: our father's sin, we bear it, or our sin, our children bear for us. This is not what Inherited sin is about! Inherited sin is the tendency of men to make sin or the sin has influenced men's lives from generations, the sin's characters has infiltrated men, for example: defying God, defying to all his laws. This is the characters of men. The proof is the sin of lies. Since childhood there are noone teaching us to lie, but men has already been so good at lying. Is there any man who never lies?
This is the influence of sin which has dwell in human since Adam and Eve fell into sin, and the influence is continuously inherited by mankind. And mankind cannot be free from this sin with his/her own effort.
For example: People who fall into a swamp (sucking mud), the more he/she tries to get free, the more he/she sinks. That's why only if other person helps him/her, he/she can get out of the mud. The Person who can help us get out of the mud of sin is Jesus Christ!
"Because everyone has been sinned!"
"Nobody is righteous, nobody."
"In fact, in this world nobody is pious, who does just good and never makes sin."
(3) The essence of sin:
Sin should be borne and men must bear all their sins.
"In fact, all souls belong to ME! Whether it's the father's or son's belongs to ME! And people who do sin, must die!"
That's why men try to erase his sins in many ways, but to no avail, because men must fall and fall again and cannot avoid their sins.
The essense of sin lies in the heart of man, if the heart has been rotten, the man is more sinned from what can be seen by people physically. And I agree with the teaching of Ki Ageng Suryomentaram, that all goodness and badness lie in the heart of man.
Only Jesus Christ can purify men from all their sins. "And the blood of Jesus, HIS Son, purifies us from all sins." So you know tha in this world, The Son of Man can forgive sin."
That's why men's life is far from peace, there are problems here and there because of sin. Men want to do good but it never comes true, because the LUST (or Flesh) is stronger to hold men than the Spirit of Truth.
"Because Flesh desire is death, but what The Spirit Desires is life and tranquility." Because the sind oing comes from Flesh, human desire that is glued to the human character. The Flesh desire, in Greek is SARX, means the human lust that cannot be freed from that man! "The acitivty of flesh is real, that are: sexual immorality, lust, the worship of idols, witchcraft, fighting, disputes, jealousy, anger, selfishness, etc..etc (I didn't translate all). These are the essense of sin that mean cannot avoid. And What is the consequence?
"Because the wage of sin is death."
(Thanks to DeExupery for Translating from Indonesian language, This is just part of the big testimony, I will update this post once Remaining part gets translated)
If you know Indonesian language, you can read it from here.
http://belong2jesus.tripod.com/kesaksianpdtyusufroni/
Last edited by Always_Kafir on Thu Mar 23, 2006 3:27 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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life is our test
Joined: 16 Mar 2006 Posts: 98
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Posted: Thu Mar 16, 2006 5:23 pm Post subject: |
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I know a Muslim who had not studied the Quran to any great degree and was recently converted by missionaries to Christianity.
I asked him why he believed one book rather than another, the Bible rather than the Quran, and why he converted seeing that Islam already contained all the teachings contained in Christianity and much more besides. He said that he did not know this and since no Muslim had told him so, he did not think this was correct. So, I showed him from the Quran that this was indeed so. (This is shown in the series of articles entitled "Views of Islam") He seemed surprised also that Jesus was accepted in Islam and about what the Quran said about him.
After a little thought he said in triumph:- "The difference is this:- If one accepts Christ as the son of God and as one's saviour then one's sins are forgiven. This is the only way one can enter heaven. God so loved mankind that He sent his Son to die for us. There is nothing like this in Islam."
This seemed like accepting something as true because it was convenient - salvation without effort. The belief would make something true rather than the truth or understanding of it, causing the belief. I asked him whether he believed the Quran that God was compassionate, merciful and forgiving? He did. Did God send His Prophets and scriptures to guide man? Does this show His love? The answer was yes. Did he know that the Spirit of God was in all men? No. He did not. The Quran says so in 15:29 and 32:9. Would that make us into gods? No, he did not think so because we were made of flesh from the earth and had to eat food to live. Does the New Testament say that Jesus (saw) was the Word of God? Yes. Does this refer to his body or to what it carries? No, not his body. Do other genuine Prophets carry the Word of God? Yes. Would God be Just to all mankind if He guided only the Jews for whom Jesus came and ignored all others? What about all the peoples of the Past and elsewhere in the world? Do not all Prophets represent God by conveying His Word? Is not the same thing said about Muhammad (saw)?
And I showed him passages from the Quran whose existence and significance came to surprise to him.
"Say (O Muhammad to mankind): If ye love Allah, follow me: Allah will love you and forgive you your sins. Allah is Forgiving, Merciful." 3:31
"And obey Allah and the Messenger that you may find mercy." 3:132
"We sent thee not save as a mercy for the peoples." 21:107
The difference between Christianity and Islam is only this that Christianity puts its attention on Jesus alone, while Islam is Universal and recognizes all Prophets, and whereas Christianity places emphasis on the messenger, Islam places it on the message of God which is of course why the messenger was sent. Whereas Islam builds a faith which does not flout reason, it becomes necessary, in order to convert Muslims, to destroy their faith. But this also destroys rationality.
"When Abraham said: My Lord! Show me how Thou givest life to the dead, He said: Do you not believe? Abraham said: Yes, but I ask in order that my heart may understand. His Lord said: Take four of the birds and cause them to incline unto (or love) thee, then place each of them on a hill, then call them. They will come to thee in haste. And know that Allah is Mighty, Wise. The like of those who spend their substance in Allah's way is as the likeness of a grain which grows seven ears, in every ear a hundred grains. Allah gives increase manifold to whom He will. Allah is All-embracing, All-knowing." 2:260-261
It seems, therefore, that resurrection refers to the return to God of those in whose heart there is love of God, a love induced by God himself. It is love that causes people to obey him and God bestows His bounties on those He loves.
Christianity tries to induce this love by the doctrine (not taught by Jesus) that God sacrificed His own son, Jesus, also a god, and that Jesus was willing to sacrifice his life for the love of man. This also induces a guilt feeling in that the death of Jesus was the result of the sins, which are to be found in all men. These two impulses are then expected to transform the life of the individual. This sometimes works.
The problem is that this doctrine distorts the concept of God, and also damages the rational faculty. To make the sacrifice effective, Jesus, the messenger, has to be deified and then, in order to retain monotheism, a Trinitarian doctrine had to be invented. (Jesus having died and returned to Heaven, the Holy Ghost has to be a third partner). Since Jesus was human, then God is also human. But the doctrine also requires the resurrection of Jesus, which nullifies the sacrifice. |
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ross
Joined: 18 Nov 2005 Posts: 764
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Posted: Thu Mar 16, 2006 5:44 pm Post subject: |
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| life is our test wrote: |
Dear Christians
We Muslims share with you the belief that Jesus was the Messiah sent by God. Islam differs from Christianity mainly in the following teachings of your Churches:-
(a) That God is a Trinity (b) That Jesus is God (c) That Salvation is through the death of Jesus.
Where in the teachings of Jesus do you find these central teachings of the Christian Church? Do you accept and follow the teachings of Jesus or someone else?
What Jesus taught was
(a) God is One
"And this is Eternal Life that they might know THEE THE ONLY TRUE GOD and Jesus Christ whom Thou has sent." John 17:3
"While I was with them in the world I kept them in THY NAME..." John 17:12
"But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and truth: for the Father seeks such as worship Him." John 4:23
"And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? There is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments." Mt 19:17
Paul did not believe in the Trinity either
"For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus" 1 Tim 2:5
"There is actually to us one God the Father,...and there is one Lord, Jesus Christ" 1 Corinthians 8
"One God and Father of all, who is over all and through all and in all" Eph 4
"And ye are Christ's, and Christ is God's" 1 Corinthians 3:23
(b) Jesus was sent by God
"I do nothing of myself; but as the Father hath taught me, I speak these things." John 8:28
"For I have not spoken of myself; but the Father which sent me, he gave me a commandment, what I should say, and what I should speak." John 12:49
"If I do not the works of my Father, believe me not. But if I do, though ye believe not me, believe the works: that ye may know, and believe, that the Father is in me, and I in him." John 10:37-38
"He that hears my word and believes on Him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come unto condemnation, but is passed from death into life." John 5:24
But "Jesus answered them, and said, My doctrine is not mine, but his that sent me." John 7:16
"And about the ninth hour Jesus cried with a loud voice, saying, Eli, Eli,lama sabachthani? that is to say, My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?" Matthew 27:46
"And the Father himself, which hath sent me, hath borne witness of me. Ye have neither heard his voice at any time, nor seen his shape." John 5:37
(c) Salvation is by obedience to God.
"Not every one that says unto me Lord, Lord shall enter into the kingdom of heaven, but He THAT DOETH THE WILL OF MY FATHER WHICH IS IN HEAVEN. Many will say to me in that Day: Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? And in thy name done many wonderful works? And then will I profess unto them, I NEVER KNEW YOU: DEPART FROM ME, YE THAT WORK INIQUITY." Matthew 7:21-23
"Jesus answered: Verily, verily, I say unto thee: Except a man be born of water and of the spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. That which is born of flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. Marvel not that I said unto thee: Ye must be born again." John 3:5-7 |
Dear life is our test,
Do not waste your time cutting and pasting material from various sites that has already been posted in this forum many times over.
If you really want to know God all you have to do is ask him to reveal himself to you. Mo is long dead and Allah commands you to worship him, but not Christ, his is the loving way, he is a giver, all you have to do is ask:
Ask, and it will be given to you; seek, and you will find; knock, and it will be opened to you. For everyone who asks receives, and he who seeks finds, and to him who knocks it will be opened.
Or what man is there among you who, when his son asks for a loaf, will give him a stone? Or if he asks for a fish, he will not give him a snake, will he?
If you then, being evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your Father who is in heaven give what is good to those who ask Him!
DARE TO SEEK THE TRUTH |
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life is our test
Joined: 16 Mar 2006 Posts: 98
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Posted: Thu Mar 16, 2006 5:55 pm Post subject: |
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Jesus is long dead and he commands you to worship him, but not Muhammad, his is the loving way, he is a giver, all you have to do is ask.
Well u shud know that religion is not established or rejected on the grounds of impersonal intellectual arguments based on a selected set of facts that ignores others.
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ross
Joined: 18 Nov 2005 Posts: 764
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Posted: Thu Mar 16, 2006 5:59 pm Post subject: |
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| life is our test wrote: |
Jesus is long dead and he commands you to worship him, but not Muhammad, his is the loving way, he is a giver, all you have to do is ask.
Well u shud know that religion is not established or rejected on the grounds of impersonal intellectual arguments based on a selected set of facts that ignores others.
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Mo a giver ?
This man even robbed a 9 year old of her innocence, robbed his step son of his wife, what has he to offer ? his is the lusting way. |
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I AM

Joined: 28 Feb 2006 Posts: 61
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Posted: Thu Mar 16, 2006 11:37 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
| Jesus is long dead and he commands you to worship him |
This is the first time a muslim said : Jesus commands you to worship Him..
While the others moslems asked me: Where is the verse that Jesus said: I am God, worship me!
By The Way, liot, Jesus was death..but he is risen! But muhamad is still dead..get the fact! _________________ "ALLAH U BARBAR!"  |
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rabidphage

Joined: 14 Dec 2005 Posts: 558 Location: UK
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Posted: Sat Mar 18, 2006 1:31 pm Post subject: |
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this is all crap. there is no point contesting the superiority of one religion to another. the fact is that all this crap is childish....all religions are man made period.....
y don't u all grow up...
and oh yes god is as real as santa....
i don't know either of them exist neither do u retards....... _________________ INJECT FREEDOM |
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Basileos

Joined: 11 Nov 2005 Posts: 4873 Location: Snowy forests of the North
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Posted: Sat Mar 18, 2006 1:36 pm Post subject: |
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| rabidphage wrote: |
this is all crap. there is no point contesting the superiority of one religion to another. the fact is that all this crap is childish....all religions are man made period.....
y don't u all grow up...
and oh yes god is as real as santa....
i don't know either of them exist neither do u retards....... |
What is crap? These testimonials are quite well documented by Always_Kafir. You may try to debunk them. _________________ Those who make you believe absurdities will also make you commit monstrosities. -Voltaire |
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Always_Kafir
Joined: 07 Mar 2005 Posts: 2530
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Posted: Sat Mar 18, 2006 1:56 pm Post subject: |
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| rabidphage wrote: |
there is no point contesting the superiority of one religion to another. the fact is that all this crap is childish....all religions are man made period.....
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I neither proclaim Christianity is superior nor advocate to convert to Christianity. I agree all religions are man-made. This thread is just to counter the muslim propaganda websites like thetruereligion.org, islamtomorrow.com etc. Most of the muslims will be pissed off after seeing this thread. I love to see that. |
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rabidphage

Joined: 14 Dec 2005 Posts: 558 Location: UK
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Posted: Sat Mar 18, 2006 4:30 pm Post subject: |
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| Always_Kafir wrote: |
| rabidphage wrote: |
there is no point contesting the superiority of one religion to another. the fact is that all this crap is childish....all religions are man made period.....
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I neither proclaim Christianity is superior nor advocate to convert to Christianity. I agree all religions are man-made. This thread is just to counter the muslim propaganda websites like thetruereligion.org, islamtomorrow.com etc. Most of the muslims will be pissed off after seeing this thread. I love to see that. |
oh sorry u rock...... _________________ INJECT FREEDOM |
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