|
Attention: Year 2009 is here
Wishing a very Happy New Year to all members of FFI. Our new and improved site is ready. To visit main site, click at faithfreedom.org and to visit our new forum, click at forum09.faithfreedom.org and register again. Do not worry about your old forum posts and PM, everything is saved here till 31st December, 2008 for future references.
|
| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Author |
Message |
Agaricus
Joined: 14 Jul 2005
Posts: 11191
Location: Britain
|
 Posted: Mon Feb 20, 2006 7:07 pm Post subject: |
 |
|
Your points may be valid, Dan-Cannon
But my fight against Islam is not over. I just would rather discriminate about those I ally myself with in that battle.
I already write regularly for an anti-jihadist blogsite, so this is not about my resolve being low.
It is about being allied with statements on a main page which run counter to everything I thought Ali was about.
I feel personally betrayed, and hurt, and I feel I have betrayed myself for assuming the best of some people, when their bigotry does not merit it.
_________________
Extremism is the loser's revenge on society
I reserve the right to make public any PMs sent to me. Be warned! |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
Kaisys
Joined: 05 Dec 2005
Posts: 1902
Location: Ether
|
| Posted: Mon Feb 20, 2006 7:09 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| kotham wrote: |
I support Ali Sina on his "gay issue". Although many people in US will not openly admit it but gays have taken thier issue to far to the left. The gays have alligned themself with extreme left and they both are supporting each other agenda. Extreme left sees gays and muslims are allies in thier fight against west. In all the polls Majority of the americans have voted against gay marriages.
Except the minority west most people in the world think being gay as wrong. I am all for protecting gays from prejudice but i am against promoting gay life style like as a normal life style. Open homesexuality is bad for the society. Homesexuality is not normal. High rate if HIV infection among gay men proves that homosexuality are not a healty life style. Homosexuals can't have normal family life or children.
Islam was able to defeat the Persians and Romans become they had become weak by internal problems. Homosexuality is one issue which can weaken the west. One good example of that is the craze of "Brokeback mountian" in US. This movie is used by left Hollywood to make Homosexuals romantic hence normal. The Movie conveys that is romantic for two married guys to have an affair as long as its homosexual affair. Its a good idea for movie but bad idea for real life.This does not take into account the amount to mental devastation thier familes will have to endure. I think homosexuals should keep thier sex life to themself and not try to preten its normal.
Once again Ali Sina has hit the nail on its head. I am today proud of Dr Ali Sina for taking a strong stand and not falling for the usual PC. |
May god bless u with a gay child and let u realise that u cannot fight mother nature.
If the gays suport muslims this is because they r persecuted by the society and have no options than join hands.
Had the society accepeted them wud they have gone to extreme left.
But they will not support muslims forever since muslims will persecute them whenever they get power.
we have the casino lifestyle, the james bond lifestyle, and many other fashion statements so what's wrong with gay lifestyle promotion.
Just bcoz somebody promotes cigarrette u donot usually start smoking, so if u r not homosexual why wud u live a lifestyle u donot enjoy.
Mental devastation family can endure, what kind of mental devastation wud u elaborate.
How can u call a norm of nature to be pretending to be normal.
U r even a stain spot on hinduism which never persecuted homosexuality in ancient times. Have the britishes so much londonized ur mind that u forget what ur values r.....
_________________
The God with demands , desires and descrimination is as good as any human. -- Kalu
If you cannot see god in all, how can you see god at all?-DSingh |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Kaisys
Joined: 05 Dec 2005
Posts: 1902
Location: Ether
|
| Posted: Mon Feb 20, 2006 7:13 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Dan-Cannon wrote: |
| Kaisys wrote: |
Ali sina has no right to comment on
1) how many times we fu ck our partners.
2) Whether we move nude or not.
Why do we seem to forget that our ancestors were nude..
So whats the big deal in being a nudist. |
Actually, he DOES have the right.
And that seems to be the main thing people here are confused about. Calls for apologies or self censorship are pathetic. They smack of Muslim mentality.
Nobody says anyone has to agree with Ali or cannot refute him with valid, logical arguments.
Those calling for censorship or apologies are just as PeeCee as the mainstream media, throwing temper tantrums when one of the perceived sacred cows is slaughtered.
As far as i'm concerned, this whole issue is exposing the true nature of certain people who can't deal with someone's opinions in the same way we can clearly see with the cartoon Jihad.
Fighting for unconditional freedom of expression is fine and dandy. But once that fight becomes feeble the moment your own holiest of holies is being scrutinized, the fight was not based on genuine conviction to begin with.
Voltaire is the only true measuring point to be applied to test one's true conviction when it comes to freedom of expression.
Some people here in FFI seem to fail horribly. |
ya ur right to some extent that we should take other's commets and criticism.
But how can anyone call a scientifically proven natural thing to be unnatural and say it is dangerous to the society without any proof.
_________________
The God with demands , desires and descrimination is as good as any human. -- Kalu
If you cannot see god in all, how can you see god at all?-DSingh |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Dan-Cannon
Joined: 19 Feb 2004
Posts: 3144
|
| Posted: Mon Feb 20, 2006 7:13 pm Post subject: Re: Refutal to Ali Sina's comments on homosexuality. |
|
|
| Vincent wrote: |
2)How do you define Morality, do you mean a homosexual cannot be moral in his way of thinking and conduct? Of course when I talk about homosexuals, I don't mean Drag queens and those you see in gay parades, I mean decent people who keep their sexuality to themselves. |
| Quote: |
| Not only homosexuality is completely accepted, gays have even "pride" parades which are grotesque displays of obscenity. One thing is to have the protection of human rights for homosexuals and quite something else is this promotion of indecency. I believe for many, homosexuality is not a choice. I can't become homosexual no matter how immoral I become. So it is a mistake to equate homosexuality with immorality. It would be immoral to deny them their human rights. But in some cases people seem to have "converted" to homosexuality. After many years of living normal heterosexual lives, they become "curious" and since there are no moral restraints and guidelines, they give in to deviant sexual experimentations. " |
Of course, you can debate about whether heterosexuals "convert" to homosexuality. But the above clearly indicates that Ali Sina does not equate homosexuality that you are born with as "immoral", and is talking about the kind that "flaunt" their sexual preference and put it on exhibit. The kind that does not just asks for acceptance, but promotes it.
It only goes to show that his words, while still open for rigorous discussion, are being deliberately taken out of proportion and branded "bigotted", which of course is not an argument at all.
And neither is "appeal to emotion".
_________________
Islam is anti-infidel, therefor i am anti-Islam. - Dan Cannon.
I am the greatest minority in the world: an individual. - David Gulbraa. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Agaricus
Joined: 14 Jul 2005
Posts: 11191
Location: Britain
|
| Posted: Mon Feb 20, 2006 7:14 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| kotham wrote: |
Agaricus
Since you have admitted that you are gay and you are hurt by Ali Sina opinion but that does not mean that you should stop interacting on this forum. Your views are welcomed. Just because Ali Sina and you don't share same ideas should not cloud the fact that we have a war going on between muslims and non-muslims. We non-muslims should all stick togather. A diffrence of opinion should have not create a division and weeken us. Atleast Dr Ali Sina was honest were he stands. |
Perhaps Ali Sina should have thought about that before he made the statements, which he seems to be sticking to, which serve to denigrate homosexuals as villains of the peace.
Homosexuals have the most to fear from Islam.
I also stated myself this morning that if the article is not modified I wish to have myself "banned", as I cannot change how I am, and I cannot share the same arena with someone who is stating that a fact of life for a person (and being gay is a fact of MY life) is a cause of the destruction of society.
As he is not going to bother to amend his article to consider the feelings of people who cannot help who they are, I cannot back down either on the stand I took.
I have already been insulted as a "drama queen" for this.
I am waiting to see if he responds to my earlier posting, and then I will be requesting my termination from the forum.
_________________
Extremism is the loser's revenge on society
I reserve the right to make public any PMs sent to me. Be warned! |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Dan-Cannon
Joined: 19 Feb 2004
Posts: 3144
|
| Posted: Mon Feb 20, 2006 7:15 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Kaisys wrote: |
ya ur right to some extent that we should take other's commets and criticism.
But how can anyone call a scientifically proven natural thing to be unnatural and say it is dangerous to the society without any proof. |
Well then why don't you prove him wrong by posting this scientific proof? You may actually convince him.
Either way, it would be a lot more intellectually honest than knee jerk demands for apologies or self-censorship because "your feelings are hurt". Those kinds of arguments are being utilized as we speak by Muslims regarding the cartoon Jihad.
_________________
Islam is anti-infidel, therefor i am anti-Islam. - Dan Cannon.
I am the greatest minority in the world: an individual. - David Gulbraa. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
bushbadee
Joined: 19 Feb 2004
Posts: 2294
Location: Account Retired
|
| Posted: Mon Feb 20, 2006 7:31 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Quote: |
2)How do you define Morality, do you mean a homosexual cannot be moral in his way of thinking and conduct?
|
I think they have a hard time in doing this.
In the Army I was a photographer.
When I came out of the army I tried to get a job in photography.
A salesman at my local photography store, where I bought most of my supplies was an editor for a Major Photography magazine.
He invited me to his home and I was quite pleased and flattered, that is untill he offered me the equivelent of $200 today, to stand across the room from him and drop my pants.
NO I didn't and the world lost a great photographer.
Prior to that, in the army, I had whole pages of my photos published all around the world.
My photo's had even caught the attention of Gen Eisenhower who recommended me for a promotion.
But I did ok in Engineering and helped make the world a better place there.
_________________
This account has been retired out of respect. Rest In Peace, Bushbadee. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Ali Sina
Joined: 13 Feb 2004
Posts: 4607
|
| Posted: Mon Feb 20, 2006 7:44 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Quote: |
Dr. Sina,
Hi, I haven't communicated for quite a while as I have been heeding your suggestion not to deluge you with emails.
However, just want to briefly comment on your wonderful article on Western converts to the killing cult. You really nailed it when you identified the dysfunctional family environment as a root cause. Another example is Ann Spaulding whose testimony appears in islamonline.
You wonder why a US veteran and a highly educated white female (Ph.D.) would succumb to the cult until you read later that her dad who is a Jew abandoned them and she was blamed by her siblings. What better way to stick it to a Jewish dad than to join a cult calling for the destruction of Jews.
Also, you may want to mention another fringe group of Westerners "rejects" attracted to the cult, namely the convicts and prison populations.
Thanks and best regards,
A loyal Fan of FFI.
PS: You and FFI are the saving light of the world in this increasingly darkening world! |
I have discussed both this, and the topic of convicts converting to Islam in detail in my book. I am still searching for a good comertial publisher.
_________________
Don't be a follower, but a prophet unto your own. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Ali Sina
Joined: 13 Feb 2004
Posts: 4607
|
| Posted: Mon Feb 20, 2006 7:48 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Kaisys wrote:
| Quote: |
| whats the deal even if human race dies off..... |
I suppose this is the main difference between our outlooks. You summed up the nihilistic ethos of the hedonistic society of today so eloquently. I believe in future, in life and in mankind. I want to preserve humanity while you (I mean those with such views) don’t give a hoot one way or another.
_________________
Don't be a follower, but a prophet unto your own. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Dan-Cannon
Joined: 19 Feb 2004
Posts: 3144
|
| Posted: Mon Feb 20, 2006 7:50 pm Post subject: |
|
|
By the way, i do think making the comments is stupid if only for PR reasons. Its hard getting people to join your cause against Islam if you specifically alienate one group with such comments, even if and when the comments are taken out of proportion.
It will obviously be used as a strawman to denounce the reasoning behind the anti-Islam cause.
I support the right of everyone having an opinion of their own, but the question is whether the main site, unlike the forum, is the right place to make a point about that, rather than getting people behind the cause and trying to be as inclusive as possible in doing so.
Getting people to see things your way about Islam should be fairly easy with arguments and proof. Using such obviously debatable opinions about homosexuality, decency and morality to convince people about Islam is an impossible venture.
It is counter productive.
If Ali Sina wants to convince people to agree with him about Islam, he would be wise to stick to Islam, and not make it part of a general worldview or ideology, because that will act as a divider.
_________________
Islam is anti-infidel, therefor i am anti-Islam. - Dan Cannon.
I am the greatest minority in the world: an individual. - David Gulbraa. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
kotham
Joined: 21 Sep 2005
Posts: 321
Location: Kafir land
|
| Posted: Mon Feb 20, 2006 7:55 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Kaisys wrote: |
| kotham wrote: |
I support Ali Sina on his "gay issue". Although many people in US will not openly admit it but gays have taken thier issue to far to the left. The gays have alligned themself with extreme left and they both are supporting each other agenda. Extreme left sees gays and muslims are allies in thier fight against west. In all the polls Majority of the americans have voted against gay marriages.
Except the minority west most people in the world think being gay as wrong. I am all for protecting gays from prejudice but i am against promoting gay life style like as a normal life style. Open homesexuality is bad for the society. Homesexuality is not normal. High rate if HIV infection among gay men proves that homosexuality are not a healty life style. Homosexuals can't have normal family life or children.
Islam was able to defeat the Persians and Romans become they had become weak by internal problems. Homosexuality is one issue which can weaken the west. One good example of that is the craze of "Brokeback mountian" in US. This movie is used by left Hollywood to make Homosexuals romantic hence normal. The Movie conveys that is romantic for two married guys to have an affair as long as its homosexual affair. Its a good idea for movie but bad idea for real life.This does not take into account the amount to mental devastation thier familes will have to endure. I think homosexuals should keep thier sex life to themself and not try to preten its normal.
Once again Ali Sina has hit the nail on its head. I am today proud of Dr Ali Sina for taking a strong stand and not falling for the usual PC. |
May god bless u with a gay child and let u realise that u cannot fight mother nature.
If the gays suport muslims this is because they r persecuted by the society and have no options than join hands.
Had the society accepeted them wud they have gone to extreme left.
But they will not support muslims forever since muslims will persecute them whenever they get power.
we have the casino lifestyle, the james bond lifestyle, and many other fashion statements so what's wrong with gay lifestyle promotion.
Just bcoz somebody promotes cigarrette u donot usually start smoking, so if u r not homosexual why wud u live a lifestyle u donot enjoy.
Mental devastation family can endure, what kind of mental devastation wud u elaborate.
How can u call a norm of nature to be pretending to be normal.
U r even a stain spot on hinduism which never persecuted homosexuality in ancient times. Have the britishes so much londonized ur mind that u forget what ur values r..... |
If homosexuality is so normal than why are you cursing me with a homosexual kid. If I have a homosexual kid i would still love him like a kid but i will not approve homosexual lifestyle. If I see him as in the pictures below I would be heartbroken.
The above pictures are not normal. Casino lifestyes, James Bond life styles are just fantacies which hardly any men realizes. So its not the same as that of Homosexual lifestyles.
BTW I am not hindu and I don't live in UK. Its true that Hindus never prececuted gays because Hindus deny the existance of gays. Name few prominent gays hindu men of ancient India.
_________________
muslims reads Quran, Non-muslims,Ex-muslim understands Quran |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
goedels_paradox
Joined: 26 Nov 2005
Posts: 2390
|
| Posted: Mon Feb 20, 2006 8:03 pm Post subject: |
|
|
I dont understand how people can say that being gay is not natural when they occur naturally. There are many evolutionary reasons why a society developed a need to have people who are gay.
Wake up guys. All religions are manmade and suffer from the same handicaps which people had in their understanding of things around them.
The issue about morals which Ali Sina talks about - hedonism, I dont agree with him. Morals always change.
| Quote: |
| "I am not an advocate for frequent changes in laws and constitutions, but laws and institutions must go hand in hand with the progress of the human mind. As that becomes more developed, more enlightened, as new discoveries are made, new truths discovered and manners and opinions change, with the change of circumstances, institutions must advance also to keep pace with the times. We might as well require a man to wear still the coat which fitted him when a boy as civilized society to remain ever under the regimen of their barbarous ancestors." |
Thomas Jefferson.
Today we might consider hedonism to be wrong. But what makes it wrong? Arent we prejudiced in judging their actions? As Bill Clinton once mentioned conservatives draw lines which we dont have to cross, and the liberals tear down the walls that need not be present but just imprison us. So I ask why is hedonism wrong? . I dont indulge in it. Yet why should I deny it to those who want to indulge in it. They are not harming me or my values.
_________________
"Man is born free but is everywhere in chains" - Rousseau. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Agaricus
Joined: 14 Jul 2005
Posts: 11191
Location: Britain
|
| Posted: Mon Feb 20, 2006 8:05 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Dear Ali Sina
I notice you managed to respond to the comments of others, and post an anonymous quote from someone praising your site.
I have made a comment, hoping that you would respond to it.
A response can be made by personal message, if you wish.
But if you do not wish to respond, then kindly terminate my account, and we will have nothing more to discuss on this matter.
Thank you
Adrian Morgan/Agaricus
_________________
Extremism is the loser's revenge on society
I reserve the right to make public any PMs sent to me. Be warned! |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Always_Kafir
Joined: 07 Mar 2005
Posts: 2530
|
| Posted: Mon Feb 20, 2006 8:22 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| kotham wrote: |
| Once again Ali Sina has hit the nail on its head. I am today proud of Dr Ali Sina for taking a strong stand and not falling for the usual PC. |
Yeap. Yet another MasterPiece from Dr.Ali Sina. Ali, Keep doing your great work. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
goedels_paradox
Joined: 26 Nov 2005
Posts: 2390
|
| Posted: Mon Feb 20, 2006 8:27 pm Post subject: |
|
|
I agree with Ali Sina's view on PC crowd. But to tie it with conservativism I feel is unnecessary.
_________________
"Man is born free but is everywhere in chains" - Rousseau. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
|
Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2002 phpBB Group
|
FAQ
Search
Memberlist
Usergroups
Register
Profile
Log in to check your private messages
Log in
