Alevi Moslims

StringTheory · Joined: 11 Jun 2005 Posts: 41

Tolerable Islam?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alevi

Belief
Alevis are followers of the Twelvers, a Shia sect. Belief in Allah is varied. Though some accept the idea of a personal creator, many believe that Allah is merely the good in man. This is expressed by the Alevi saying "insan Hakta Hak insanda" (man is in God, God is in man).

While the Sunnis follow the four caliphs Omar, Uthman, Abu Bakr and Ali, the Alevis recognize only one of the caliphs, Ali ibn Abi Talib and his two sons, Imam Hussain and Imam Hassan, just like the Shia Muslims.

Though expressing belief in the Qur'an, most Alevis in Turkey reject concepts like polygamy, jannah (Turkish: cennet) and jahannam (Turkish: cehennem), salat (Turkish: namaz), fasting (Turkish: oruç), and hajj (Turkish: hac). Traditionally, Alevi worship is not conducted in a mosque, but is intimately connected with the dede (elder), cem (a gathering), and the cemevi (meeting house).

Hajji Bektash Wali, who lived in the 13th century, is just one of the Alevi's principal theologians. Yunus Emre and Pir Sultan Abdal are two other teachers. Like the Sufis, the Alevis also use religious music and dance, called semah, to show their belief in Allah. Modern Alevi theology has been profoundly influenced by humanism and universalism. Thus, while many of the older generation view Alevism as a religious belief, many of the younger generation prefer to term it a philosophy. In Turkey, there is an ongoing discussion about whether Alevism is part of Islam or not.

Further, relations with other Muslim groups must be considered. As Ilhan Ataseven has noted, there is some tension between family-tradition Alevis and the Bektashi Order, which is a Sufi order founded on Alevi beliefs. In certain Turkish communities, other Sufi orders, namely the Helveti-Jerahi and some of the Rifa'i, have incorporated significant Alevi influence. Though generally regarded as a Sunni group historically, some Rifa'is accept the Alevi identity. This is particularly common among Turkish teacher Sherif Baba's Rifa'i Marufi Order, whose worship combines elements of typical Alevi traditions with the practice of zikr, commonly associated with the Sunni Sufi orders. This pattern can be traced to a traditional fluidity between non-orthodox Muslim practices and also to the polarity between secular and religious worldviews in contemporary Turkey. Though to many contemporary Turks the line between tarikat (traditionally meaning a Sufi order, but since the 1980s used by Turkish journalists to describe militant Muslim groups such as Hizbullah) and Alevi seems vast, in other areas of the world and even in Turkey until recently, the Arabic word "tariqa" referred to Sufi orders, such as the Mevlevi. Such groups shared many principles with the Alevi, though membership was by initiation rather than familial ties. Most notable among these was the Bektashi, whose identity has been virtually fused with the Alevi, even at a popular level. Smaller orders such as the Rifa'i Marufi, have sometimes identified with the Alevi, with whom they share secularist principles, a general scepticism of extreme orthodoxy, an emphasis on men and women worshipping together, a common group of revered saints such as Hajji Bektash Veli and Pir Sultan Abdal, and a deep devotion to the family of the Prophet Muhammad. That said, such groups stand a bit ouside of the main body of Alevi culture in significant ways.

thunderbalt · Joined: 06 Jan 2005 Posts: 2975

StringTheory · Joined: 11 Jun 2005 Posts: 41

40% of Turkey is Alevi, So I am sure they have their own place

""Traditionally, Alevi worship is not conducted in a mosque, but is intimately connected with the dede (elder), cem (a gathering), and the cemevi (meeting house""

Phedippedes · Posted: Tue Feb 07, 2006 3:30 pm Post subject:

The Alavites are hardly Muslim in the traditional sense of the word...the don't bother reading the Quran afaik and they couldn't care much about Mahomet either. They share some Persian's Zoroastrianism: good thoughts, good words, good deeds (or something similar) and are AFAIK basically nice people.

If only all Muslims would be Alavites.

pozar · Joined: 05 Feb 2006 Posts: 4 Location: New York

IHSoter · Posted: Tue Feb 07, 2006 4:50 pm Post subject:

Maybe Atta Turk didn't do the world a favor in supressing religion then?

If these Alevis are the decent, mildly humanistic mystics that they made out to be; then if they hadn't repressed w/ most sects in Turkey, they might have gained wider acceptance in the Moslem world. ~ We could be facing a greatly reformed Islam today, w/ a tolerant & forward looking attitude.

Atta Turk replaced Islam as the source for social cohesion w/ Turkic nationalism. ~ Thus rebuilt an empire from the more Turkish parts of the old Kill-off-ya. ~ This led to an effort in the Arab parts of that old empire to do the same, build a political base on Arab identity. ~ Unfortunatly in the Arab world, the legacy of Mo. means that Arab identity & Islamic identity are inextricably bound together, rather like the two life forms that make up a lichen. ~ The revival of nationalist feeling in Arabs led to a revival of religious feeling. ~ The nationalist movements in the Arabized world have always tended to drift inextricably in a religious direction. ~ The growth of Islamic Brotherhood is most typical of this tendency.

By the way, did you know I once met a former member of the Islamic Brotherhood of Egypt?

I have to wonder, how can these sufic type movements be used to check the popularity of Islamist movements?
_________________
FIDES ET RATIO:
"We must rid ourselves once and for all of the Quaker-Papist babble about the sanctity of human life." --Leon Trotsky

Hektor · Joined: 07 Feb 2006 Posts: 11

Edited.

IHSoter · Posted: Tue Feb 07, 2006 7:33 pm Post subject: Re: Alawites

Recovering Leftist · Posted: Tue Feb 07, 2006 7:36 pm Post subject: Re: Alawites

Hektor · Joined: 07 Feb 2006 Posts: 11

Edited.

laertes · Joined: 24 Jan 2006 Posts: 103 Location: İstanbul

"Alawites (Bashar gang) run Syria it should be noted."

Actually they are Shi'ites not alevis.not the same though there are some similarities.

Recovering Leftist · Posted: Tue Feb 07, 2006 9:27 pm Post subject: Re: Alawites

laertes · Joined: 24 Jan 2006 Posts: 103 Location: İstanbul

I'm less an expert, authority over the issue than Wikipedia for sure.But they are not the same in practicing the religion or in their understanding of the religion as far as i know, eventhough both might be called as Alevis.A specific example is that Alevis in Anatolia do not go to mosques. it was said that they are a some mixture of Islam and other earlier religions like Shamanism.they do not take everything taken for granted about Islam. Let's say they are quite selective Muslıms.The similar part is both praise Ali as much as Mohammed.And Alevis sometimes might glorify him even more..

"Maybe Atta Turk didn't do the world a favor in supressing religion then?

If these Alevis are the decent, mildly humanistic mystics that they made out to be; then if they hadn't repressed w/ most sects in Turkey, they might have gained wider acceptance in the Moslem world. ~ We could be facing a greatly reformed Islam today, w/ a tolerant & forward looking attitude"

To answer IHSoter, throughout history they were accused of being non-muslıms and faced with discrimination and executions but ataturk mostly was struggling against the groups form sunni branch of Islam which are far more radical.And the secularization of the state at that epoch facilitate the lives of Alevis in a certain degree.But still they face with difficulties today.