Go to FFI
 FAQFAQ   SearchSearch   MemberlistMemberlist   UsergroupsUsergroups   RegisterRegister 
 ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in 

Attention: Year 2009 is here Wishing a very Happy New Year to all members of FFI. Our new and improved site is ready. To visit main site, click at faithfreedom.org and to visit our new forum, click at forum09.faithfreedom.org and register again. Do not worry about your old forum posts and PM, everything is saved here till 31st December, 2008 for future references.
Was Muhammad a Paranoid Schizophrenic?
Goto page 1, 2, 3, 4  Next
 
This forum is locked: you cannot post, reply to, or edit topics.   This topic is locked: you cannot edit posts or make replies.    Faith Freedom International Forum Index -> Muhammad
View previous topic :: View next topic  

Based on the orthodox details of his biography, do you believe that Muhammad was:
A simple charlatan
10%
 10%  [ 5 ]
A paranoid schizophrenic
52%
 52%  [ 24 ]
A prophet of God
8%
 8%  [ 4 ]
An ordinary Arab Warlord whose biography was altered by the Muslims that followed him
10%
 10%  [ 5 ]
Other (please comment)
17%
 17%  [ 8 ]
Total Votes : 46

Author Message
THHuxley



Joined: 20 Feb 2004
Posts: 2474
Location: Denver, Colorado

PostPosted: Tue May 10, 2005 8:10 pm    Post subject: Was Muhammad a Paranoid Schizophrenic? Reply with quote

On the web page Schizophrenia.com we find the following diagnostic description:

schizophrenia.com wrote:
Paranoid Schizophrenia

Paranoid schizophrenia is the most common type of schizophrenia in most parts of the world. The clinical picture is dominated by relatively stable, often paranoid, delusions, usually accompanied by hallucinations, particularly of the auditory variety, and perceptual disturbances. Disturbances of affect, volition, and speech, and catatonic symptoms, are not prominent.

Examples of the most common paranoid symptoms are:

• delusions of persecution, reference, exalted birth, special mission, bodily change, or jealousy;
• hallucinatory voices that threaten the patient or give commands, or auditory hallucinations without verbal form, such as whistling, humming, or laughing;
• hallucinations of smell or taste, or of sexual or other bodily sensations; visual hallucinations may occur but are rarely predominant.

Thought disorder may be obvious in acute states, but if so it does not prevent the typical delusions or hallucinations from being described clearly. Affect is usually less blunted than in other varieties of schizophrenia, but a minor degree of incongruity is common, as are mood disturbances such as irritability, sudden anger, fearfulness, and suspicion. "Negative" symptoms such as blunting of affect and impaired volition are often present but do not dominate the clinical picture.

The course of paranoid schizophrenia may be episodic, with partial or complete remissions, or chronic. In chronic cases, the florid symptoms persist over years and it is difficult to distinguish discrete episodes. The onset tends to be later than in the hebephrenic and catatonic forms.

http://www.schizophrenia.com/szparanoid.htm


It has struck me repeatedly over the years that the biography of Muhammad is a case study in the onset and progress of paranoid schizophrenia.

After an ordinary first part of his life, the illness presented itself first with the periodic withdrawal from community and family into a cave near his home:

Muhammad Hamidullah in his Introduction to Islam wrote:
It is from this moment that we find Muhammad becoming more and more absorbed in spiritual meditations. Like his grandfather, he used to retire during the whole month of Ramadan to a cave in Jabal-an-Nur (mountain of light). The cave is called `Ghar-i-Hira' or the cave of research.


The slow progress of onset is shown by the fact that it took five years before the need for seclusion began to include disembodied voices. These initially filled him fear and confusion.

Muhammad Hamidullah in his Introduction to Islam wrote:
Deeply affected, he returned home and related to his wife what had happened, expressing his fears that it might have been something diabolic or the action of evil spirits.


In classic form, the progress of the disease was periodic, punctuated by long periods of normalcy, during which the status of his mental health appears to have been of some concern to his community.

Muhammad Hamidullah in his Introduction to Islam wrote:
Then came a pause in revelation, extending over three years. The Prophet must have felt at first a shock, then a calm, an ardent desire, and after a period of waiting, a growing impatience or nostalgia. The news of the first vision had spread and at the pause the skeptics in the city had begun to mock at him and cut bitter jokes. They went so far as to say that God had forsaken him.


His mission was progressively introduced to him first in compelling dreams, then via purely auditory hallucinations of voices, and later full scale auditory and visual hallucinations during which the Qur’an was "revealed."

Muhammad Hamidullah in his Introduction to Islam wrote:
According to Ibn Ishaq, the first revelation (n. 17) had come to the Prophet during his sleep, evidently to reduce the shock. Later revelations came in full wakefulness.


He undoubtedly suffered from delusions of an exalted mission, although the nature of that mission morphed along with the progress of the disease.

Initially, he was called only to preach the message of monotheism.

Muhammad Hamidullah in his Introduction to Islam wrote:
God assured him that He had not at all forsaken him: on the contrary it was He Who had guided him to the right path: therefore he should take care of the orphans and the destitute, and proclaim the bounty of God on him (cf. Q. 93:3-11). This was in reality an order to preach. Another revelation directed him to warn people against evil practices, to exhort them to worship none but the One God, and to abandon everything that would displease God (Q. 74:2-7). Yet another revelation commanded him to warn his own near relatives (Q. 26:214); and: "Proclaim openly that which thou art commanded, and withdraw from the Associators (idolaters). Lo! we defend thee from the scoffers" (15:94-5).


The hallucinations progressed to the point where Muhammad believed he had ascended into heaven and spoken with Allah personally, along with a simultaneous increasing paranoia, and growing intolerance of ideas other than his own.

The by now complete break between reality and his delusions of persecution are shown by that fact that at a time Muhammad believed there was a threat on his life, these same people who threatened him were actually using him as a banker for their assets.

Muhammad Hamidullah in his Introduction to Islam wrote:
It is worthy of mention, that in spite of their hostility to his mission, the pagans had unbounded confidence in his probity, so much so that many of them used to deposit their savings with him. The Prophet Muhammad now entrusted all these deposits to 'Ali, a cousin of his, with instructions to return in due course to the rightful owners. He then left the town secretly in the company of his faithful friend, Abu-Bakr. After several adventures, they succeeded in reaching Madinah in safety. This happened in 622, whence starts the Hijrah calendar.


The progressive nature of the illness is demonstrated by the shift over time towards an increasingly paranoid and violent conviction that he was the subject of persecution. First merely a preacher, he became progressively a bandit, then a full scale warlord. During the progress of the illness he grew increasingly intolerant of the other faiths he at first imagined were his natural allies, first driving his imagined Jewish enemies out of their homes, fields and communities and finally engaging in full scale genocide against the final remaining tribe, the Banu Quraiza. This was full scale ethnic cleansing.

From that point on, his paranoia full blown, Muhammad engaged in essentially constant warfare with anyone he could up until his death. His delusions of grandeur grew so extreme that he even sent letters to nearby kings including the Byzantine Emperor threatening them unless they converted to his belief.

Has anyone else noticed this seemingly obvious explanation for the origin of Islam in this one man?
_________________
Nullius in Verba
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Richard_The _Lionheart



Joined: 07 Sep 2004
Posts: 6166
Location: England

PostPosted: Tue May 10, 2005 10:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think Mo’ suffered from many mental illnesses.
If he wasn’t such a b@stard I might have felt sorry for him.
_________________
What the world needs is not dogma but an attitude of scientific inquiry combined with a belief that the torture of millions is not desirable, whether inflicted by Stalin or by a Deity imagined in the likeness of the believer. - Bertrand Russell.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Myrddin Emrys



Joined: 28 Dec 2004
Posts: 1908

PostPosted: Tue May 10, 2005 10:39 pm    Post subject: Re: Was Muhammad a Paranoid Schizophrenic? Reply with quote

THHuxley wrote:
On the web page Schizophrenia.com we find the following diagnostic description:

schizophrenia.com wrote:
Paranoid Schizophrenia

Paranoid schizophrenia is the most common type of schizophrenia in most parts of the world. The clinical picture is dominated by relatively stable, often paranoid, delusions, usually accompanied by hallucinations, particularly of the auditory variety, and perceptual disturbances. Disturbances of affect, volition, and speech, and catatonic symptoms, are not prominent.

Examples of the most common paranoid symptoms are:

• delusions of persecution, reference, exalted birth, special mission, bodily change, or jealousy;
• hallucinatory voices that threaten the patient or give commands, or auditory hallucinations without verbal form, such as whistling, humming, or laughing;
• hallucinations of smell or taste, or of sexual or other bodily sensations; visual hallucinations may occur but are rarely predominant.

Thought disorder may be obvious in acute states, but if so it does not prevent the typical delusions or hallucinations from being described clearly. Affect is usually less blunted than in other varieties of schizophrenia, but a minor degree of incongruity is common, as are mood disturbances such as irritability, sudden anger, fearfulness, and suspicion. "Negative" symptoms such as blunting of affect and impaired volition are often present but do not dominate the clinical picture.

The course of paranoid schizophrenia may be episodic, with partial or complete remissions, or chronic. In chronic cases, the florid symptoms persist over years and it is difficult to distinguish discrete episodes. The onset tends to be later than in the hebephrenic and catatonic forms.

http://www.schizophrenia.com/szparanoid.htm


It has struck me repeatedly over the years that the biography of Muhammad is a case study in the onset and progress of paranoid schizophrenia.

After an ordinary first part of his life, the illness presented itself first with the periodic withdrawal from community and family into a cave near his home:

Muhammad Hamidullah in his Introduction to Islam wrote:
It is from this moment that we find Muhammad becoming more and more absorbed in spiritual meditations. Like his grandfather, he used to retire during the whole month of Ramadan to a cave in Jabal-an-Nur (mountain of light). The cave is called `Ghar-i-Hira' or the cave of research.


The slow progress of onset is shown by the fact that it took five years before the need for seclusion began to include disembodied voices. These initially filled him fear and confusion.

Muhammad Hamidullah in his Introduction to Islam wrote:
Deeply affected, he returned home and related to his wife what had happened, expressing his fears that it might have been something diabolic or the action of evil spirits.


In classic form, the progress of the disease was periodic, punctuated by long periods of normalcy, during which the status of his mental health appears to have been of some concern to his community.

Muhammad Hamidullah in his Introduction to Islam wrote:
Then came a pause in revelation, extending over three years. The Prophet must have felt at first a shock, then a calm, an ardent desire, and after a period of waiting, a growing impatience or nostalgia. The news of the first vision had spread and at the pause the skeptics in the city had begun to mock at him and cut bitter jokes. They went so far as to say that God had forsaken him.


His mission was progressively introduced to him first in compelling dreams, then via purely auditory hallucinations of voices, and later full scale auditory and visual hallucinations during which the Qur’an was "revealed."

Muhammad Hamidullah in his Introduction to Islam wrote:
According to Ibn Ishaq, the first revelation (n. 17) had come to the Prophet during his sleep, evidently to reduce the shock. Later revelations came in full wakefulness.


He undoubtedly suffered from delusions of an exalted mission, although the nature of that mission morphed along with the progress of the disease.

Initially, he was called only to preach the message of monotheism.

Muhammad Hamidullah in his Introduction to Islam wrote:
God assured him that He had not at all forsaken him: on the contrary it was He Who had guided him to the right path: therefore he should take care of the orphans and the destitute, and proclaim the bounty of God on him (cf. Q. 93:3-11). This was in reality an order to preach. Another revelation directed him to warn people against evil practices, to exhort them to worship none but the One God, and to abandon everything that would displease God (Q. 74:2-7). Yet another revelation commanded him to warn his own near relatives (Q. 26:214); and: "Proclaim openly that which thou art commanded, and withdraw from the Associators (idolaters). Lo! we defend thee from the scoffers" (15:94-5).


The hallucinations progressed to the point where Muhammad believed he had ascended into heaven and spoken with Allah personally, along with a simultaneous increasing paranoia, and growing intolerance of ideas other than his own.

The by now complete break between reality and his delusions of persecution are shown by that fact that at a time Muhammad believed there was a threat on his life, these same people who threatened him were actually using him as a banker for their assets.

Muhammad Hamidullah in his Introduction to Islam wrote:
It is worthy of mention, that in spite of their hostility to his mission, the pagans had unbounded confidence in his probity, so much so that many of them used to deposit their savings with him. The Prophet Muhammad now entrusted all these deposits to 'Ali, a cousin of his, with instructions to return in due course to the rightful owners. He then left the town secretly in the company of his faithful friend, Abu-Bakr. After several adventures, they succeeded in reaching Madinah in safety. This happened in 622, whence starts the Hijrah calendar.


The progressive nature of the illness is demonstrated by the shift over time towards an increasingly paranoid and violent conviction that he was the subject of persecution. First merely a preacher, he became progressively a bandit, then a full scale warlord. During the progress of the illness he grew increasingly intolerant of the other faiths he at first imagined were his natural allies, first driving his imagined Jewish enemies out of their homes, fields and communities and finally engaging in full scale genocide against the final remaining tribe, the Banu Quraiza. This was full scale ethnic cleansing.

From that point on, his paranoia full blown, Muhammad engaged in essentially constant warfare with anyone he could up until his death. His delusions of grandeur grew so extreme that he even sent letters to nearby kings including the Byzantine Emperor threatening them unless they converted to his belief.

Has anyone else noticed this seemingly obvious explanation for the origin of Islam in this one man?


Hi Hux

I've often wondered myself whether Mo suffered with an affective disorder:

Feelings

* elevated mood, feeling high, elated, euphoric, ecstatic
* irritability, excessive anger over trivial things, overreacting to stimuli
* labile, rapid emotional changes: feeling happy one minute and then angry the next for no apparent reason
* hostile

Thoughts

* inflated self-esteem, grandiosity, thinking one is more powerful than one really is
* ideas pour in at an incredible pace and mental associations after associations occur so that speech can be full I of jokes, plays on words and amusing irrelevancies
* misinterpretation of events, distortion of the meaning of ordinary comments
* distractibility
* racing thoughts, flight of ideas, jumping quickly from one topic to another
* poor judgment, one will probably not recognize that one is ill and is apt to refuse treatment, will blame others for things that go wrong
* loss of touch with reality - hearing voices (hallucinations) or having strange ideas (delusions) about being persecuted, controlled

Body

* excessive energy
* decreased sleep sometimes only a couple of hours a night
* a heightening of all the senses, especially in the perception of colours and light

Behaviour

* involvement in grandiose money making schemes
* compulsive desire to be socially involved prompting telephone calls to friends at all hours of the night often to discuss plans
* overspending, giving money away, going on shopping sprees, incurring heavy debts, moving from one activity to another without stopping
* socially intrusive, headstrong, targeting the self-esteem of others, alienating family members
* angry and demanding
* talking more than usual, sometimes loudly and quickly
* a new interest in collection of clothes, possessions or other objects
* increased sexual activity, may want sexual intercourse several times a day, may pick up partners indiscriminately.

The above are the main presenting features of a unipolar Manic Depressive illness (Hypermania), obviously laid out in a modern context, but again one can clearly see a similarity to Mo's behaviour, although I would have to say that Mo's grandiosity is more in keeping with Hypermania rather than a true paranoid state. As with Paranoid Schizophrenia, symptoms are transient and variable, with episodes punctuated with periods of remission.
_________________
People will believe anything because they either fear it is true, or because they want to believe it is true.

Wizard's First Rule, courtesy of Terry Goodkind from the Sword of Truth novels.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Arizona



Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 184
Location: Australia

PostPosted: Wed May 11, 2005 10:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've voted for "paranoid schizophrenic" because it fits the bill most closely.

I would recommend the following article:
Wahi: the Supernatural Basis of Islam
http://koenraadelst.bharatvani.org/articles/irin/wahiusa.html
and also the relevant sections in:
Psychology of Prophetism: http://www.bharatvani.org/books/pp/index.htm
both by Koenraad Elst.

For a Muslim response to Wahi, check out Islam.com forum threads:
http://www.islam.com/reply.asp?id=519384&ct=16&mn=519384
http://www.islam.com/reply.asp?id=520116&ct=16&mn=520116
etc ...

I believe there is a good grain of truth in Elst's analysis, however there is also a tradition among non-orthodox (or non-Islamic) Sufis to the effect that Mo(hammed) was having a go at Sufi meditation and got things a bit wrong. He should have had a good instructor or a basis in book learning at the very least. He rushed in where angels fear to tread and made a centuries-old fool of himself, taking billions of Muslims with him into his delusions.

Islam is a great monument to human folly.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Phedippedes



Joined: 20 Mar 2004
Posts: 8092
Location: Not on FFI anymore

PostPosted: Wed May 11, 2005 1:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Interesting question Hux. Yes, Mahomet seems to exibit most of the characteristics of a paranoid-schizo.

There's plenty of traits he seems to share with infamous historical figures like David Coresh, Hitler, Mao, Stalin or even Saddam Hussein.

I believe the reality of Mahomet may be a peculiar mixture of options 1,2 & 4. Yes he was a madman but he most certainly also was a liar and charlatan AND I do believe that during and after his life much of the existent folklore and mythology got incorporated into Islam, including a further hyped up version of Mahomet.

Just like Hitler wasn't alone and needed his fair share of protectors and henchmen so must Mahomet have had his.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Doubting Thomas



Joined: 29 Mar 2005
Posts: 63
Location: Arizona

PostPosted: Sat May 14, 2005 12:09 am    Post subject: a fascinating topic Reply with quote

I think that mental illness, hallucinations, and so forth are a side door to understanding the world of supernatural beliefs. I had to vote for "other" because although some of Mahomet's biography does resemble paranoid schizophrenia, I don't think the 'Mahomet' of the legends existed. There may have been a person, or persons, who resembled him in some respects. My own speculation (and it is only a speculation) is that given the very different behavior and beliefs of the Mecca Mahomet and the Medina Mahomet, that they were two different persons.
_________________
See with your eyes; Hear with your ears
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
IoshkaFutz



Joined: 16 Feb 2004
Posts: 3895
Location: Caput Mundistan

PostPosted: Sat May 14, 2005 12:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ciao Hux,

I voted a simple Charlatan... Those that we hate aren't necessarily crazy. His mockery of Judaism and especially Christianity is too perfect and precise. To simply brand him mad is too easy... and also dangerous. Evil is not insanity... it can be perfectly sane

There's too much cold and cunning calculation. The man managed to flip every single human virtue on its head.

I suspect that for you, all religions are mad or at least daft (mad light)...

Mo drove people - entire nations - to madness, but the man himself was lucid. Hitler wasn't mad, nor was Stalin... nor were the Swedish Social Democrats who sterilized 60,000 women (from the mid 19-thirties to the mid 19-seventies);

In hindsight we call them "mad"... I prefer to call him - and them - evil.
_________________
</islam> Whenever you guys shout "Allah Akbar" I find myself ducking for the floor - Haik Monsieur
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Madeleine



Joined: 03 May 2005
Posts: 1513

PostPosted: Sat May 14, 2005 7:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

He was at the same time a simple charlatan and and an ordinary Arab warlord whose life was transformed into a series of legends by his followers. It's not of much importance if he was crazy or not. Unfortunately the tragedy is that he succeeded to mislead the mind and judgment of so many people.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Sir Galahad



Joined: 16 Jun 2004
Posts: 1938
Location: Avalon

PostPosted: Sat May 14, 2005 9:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I voted other.

If the Hadith are accurate when it comes to describing Muhammad's physical condition he most likely suffered from Acromegaly

He was probably severely paranoid and narcissistic as well.

Kind regards,
_________________
Courage is rightly esteemed the first of human qualities, because it is the quality which guarantees all others. _Winston Churchill

Winter is Coming. - Motto of House Stark
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Master-Jaffer



Joined: 08 May 2005
Posts: 43

PostPosted: Sat May 14, 2005 12:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

So, you're saying that if an angel came to you, but was originally formless and spoke to you, you wouldn't be the least bit faultered or surprised?

Yeah, right.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
THHuxley



Joined: 20 Feb 2004
Posts: 2474
Location: Denver, Colorado

PostPosted: Sat May 14, 2005 1:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Master-Jaffer wrote:
So, you're saying that if an angel came to you, but was originally formless and spoke to you, you wouldn't be the least bit faultered or surprised?

Yeah, right.


Not much of an issue, since there are apparently no such things as angels.

But more to the point of your question.

No. I am saying that Muhammad demonstrated an entire suite of behaviors suggestive of mental illness. The "voices" he heard are simply one of them.
_________________
Nullius in Verba
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
agentazure



Joined: 13 Feb 2004
Posts: 3340

PostPosted: Sat May 14, 2005 2:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I chose "other."

Paranoid schizophrenics usually have too much difficulty socially as a result of their disease to gain as much power and influence as Muhammad had. Muhammad was far too adept at manipulating people to achieve his ends.

But he wasn't just a simple charlatan like some snake oil salesman or a politician. His plans were too grandiose and his ego too large and he lacked any sort of empathy.

I think he had:
Narcissistic personality disorder

Quote:
1. has a grandiose sense of self-importance (e.g., exaggerates achievements and talents, expects to be recognized as superior without commensurate achievements)

2. is preoccupied with fantasies of unlimited success, power, brilliance, beauty, or ideal love

3. believes that he or she is "special" and unique and can only be understood by, or should associate with, other special or high-status people (or institutions)

4. requires excessive admiration

5. has a sense of entitlement, i.e., unreasonable expectations of especially favorable treatment or automatic compliance with his or her expectations

6. is interpersonally exploitative, i.e., takes advantage of others to achieve his or her own ends

7. lacks empathy: is unwilling to recognize or identify with the feelings and needs of others

8. is often envious of others or believes that others are envious of him or her

9. shows arrogant, haughty behaviors or attitudes


_________________
"You can't do this to me, I'm an American!" -- Marion Ravenwood, Raiders of the Lost Ark
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Arizona



Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 184
Location: Australia

PostPosted: Sat May 14, 2005 11:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

to agentazure: I would agree with the good correspondence between those symptoms of narcissistic personality disorder and Mo's reported behaviour together with his views as expressed in the Koran. However, this disorder by itself lacks the hallucinatory symptoms of paranoid schizophrenia. Also, as I understand it, Freudians view schizophrenia as effectively a severe form of narcissism, that is, what starts as mere neurosis can develop into psychosis. What you've provided is a useful input into the debate since it spells out more clearly the underlying personality disorder. However, the diagnosis is just not sufficient to account for the full range of symptoms.

You wrote: "Paranoid schizophrenics usually have too much difficulty socially as a result of their disease to gain as much power and influence as Muhammad had."

This is certainly true for severe and chronic paranoid schizophrenia and it's a good point. However, there is an undeniable case for at least a moderate form of schizophrenia in Mo. Not simply acute since the hallucinations were repeated, but not severe enough to be totally socially debilitating. It's important, also, to take account of the "folie à deux" between Mo and Khadija as this provided him with a leverage that most chronic schizophrenics lack.

-----

to THHuxley: Indeed, mental illnesses are diagnosed on a complex of symptoms and the absence of one or two is not what counts. It's the overall fit as compared to other possible diagnoses.

to Sir Galahad: The condition of acromegaly is dealt with in the fuller article I provided above (of which your link is an excerpt). The acromegaly is best viewed as an underlying physiological condition, just as the severe narcissism is an underlying psychological condition. The closest medical diagnosis of a psychiatric condition remains paranoid schizophrenia.
_________________
For I am the one who alone exists,
and I have no one who will judge me.
- The Thunder, Perfect Mind
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
agentazure



Joined: 13 Feb 2004
Posts: 3340

PostPosted: Sat May 14, 2005 11:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Arizona wrote:
to agentazure: I would agree with the good correspondence between those symptoms of narcissistic personality disorder and Mo's reported behaviour together with his views as expressed in the Koran. However, this disorder by itself lacks the hallucinatory symptoms of paranoid schizophrenia. Also, as I understand it, Freudians view schizophrenia as effectively a severe form of narcissism, that is, what starts as mere neurosis can develop into psychosis. What you've provided is a useful input into the debate since it spells out more clearly the underlying personality disorder. However, the diagnosis is just not sufficient to account for the full range of symptoms.

You wrote: "Paranoid schizophrenics usually have too much difficulty socially as a result of their disease to gain as much power and influence as Muhammad had."

This is certainly true for severe and chronic paranoid schizophrenia and it's a good point. However, there is an undeniable case for at least a moderate form of schizophrenia in Mo. Not simply acute since the hallucinations were repeated, but not severe enough to be totally socially debilitating. It's important, also, to take account of the "folie à deux" between Mo and Khadija as this provided him with a leverage that most chronic schizophrenics lack.



Hi Arizona.

The problem I have with the assessment that Mo was a paranoid schizophrenic rather than having narcissistic personality disorder is that it presumes Mo's hallucinations were genuine.

Had Mo genuinely believed that he had seen and spoken to Gabrielle and that he was taken to heaven, he would have been too debilitated to effectively lead and manipulate so many into caving into his authority.

Mo might have been able to lead despite delusions for a little while, but truly schizophrenic people's thoughts are too disorganized for people not to see through it sooner or later. It's not as if there were drugs available back then to correct some chemical imbalance.

Instead Mo was able to manipulate people into giving up their wives and daughters and go to war and kill for him for decades. I believe Mo lied about his talks with Gabriel to get people to believe he had a special line to God in order to manipulate them into following him.
_________________
"You can't do this to me, I'm an American!" -- Marion Ravenwood, Raiders of the Lost Ark
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Myrddin Emrys



Joined: 28 Dec 2004
Posts: 1908

PostPosted: Sun May 15, 2005 12:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think one has to take account of how mental illness was viewed in a historical context. It is easy to identify mental illness today as being an illness of the mind because we have that insight, but back in Mo's day this concept was relatively unknown.

In many older, and some modern, cultures the symptoms of mental illness were often thought to be proof of a link between Man and Gods. Indeed, Islam believed that those afflicted with a mental illness were thought to be possessed by jinn, supernatural spirits that can be either good or bad - that belief persists today amongst many uneducated Muslims. The Sufi movement, for instance, teaches spirituality though near-mysticism, using song, dance, and narcotics to induce an altered mental state and, consequently, a closer connection to God.

If one views Mo's 'symptoms' in this light, it becomes clearer why he became acceptable to those around him, and more importantly, why his revelations were accepted as being from Allah. Therefore, Mo's experiences would have been in keeping with the widely held beliefs of his day, i.e. someone who claims to have had a message from God, probably has!
_________________
People will believe anything because they either fear it is true, or because they want to believe it is true.

Wizard's First Rule, courtesy of Terry Goodkind from the Sword of Truth novels.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:   
This forum is locked: you cannot post, reply to, or edit topics.   This topic is locked: you cannot edit posts or make replies.    Faith Freedom International Forum Index -> Muhammad All times are GMT
Goto page 1, 2, 3, 4  Next
Page 1 of 4

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum


Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2002 phpBB Group

 

  Search the Forum