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Galadriel
Joined: 19 Mar 2005
Posts: 2143
Location: Australia
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 Posted: Wed May 11, 2005 7:39 am Post subject: ANWAR IBRAHIM: MUSLIM LEADERS & MEDIA ARE CORRUPTS |
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Q&A: Former Malay deputy PM Anwar Ibrahim
By Anwar Iqbal
UPI South Asian Affairs Analyst
Washington, DC, Apr. 6 (UPI) -- Muslims will never get respect unless they have peace and justice in their own societies, according to Anwar Ibrahim, the former Malaysian deputy prime minister, who United Press International interviewed in Washington.
Ibrahim was heir apparent to Malaysia's long-serving Prime Minister Mahathir Mohammed, who retired in October 2003 after ruling his country for 22 years. But Ibrahim did not take over. Mahathir had sacked him in 1998 and sent him to jail after charging him with committing sodomy.
The charges followed an implicit leadership challenge at the annual general assembly of the ruling United Malays National Organization, which Mahathir blamed on Ibrahim and his followers.
On Feb. 9, 2004, Malaysia's highest court released Ibrahim and dropped the sodomy charges against him. International human rights groups had already rejected these charges as politically motivated and Amnesty International had declared Ibrahim a prisoner of conscience.
Ibrahim is now in Washington, associated with Johns Hopkins University's School of Advanced International Studies as a "distinguished senior visiting fellow" and hopes to bring his wife and family too.
Ibrahim told UPI that Muslim nations continue to have these leadership crises because they do not have institutions. He disagreed with the suggestion that Islam prevents Muslims from building up institutions.
"Muslims would build institutions if given the freedom to do so," he said. "A free media and a free judiciary," answered Ibrahim when asked what could bring the freedom that he believes is needed to build institutions. "What is leadership if it does not represent the conscience of the majority?" he asked in return. He did not agree with argument that it's only the Muslim nations which fail to build institutions. "Zimbabwe is not a Muslim state," he noted, adding that it was more of a Third World than a Muslim phenomenon.
UPI: Maybe so but there are more Muslims in this group of so-called failed nations than the followers of any other religion.
Ibrahim: Yes, and Muslims will have to understand that you cannot get respect by preaching Islam alone. Unless you have peace and justice, your message will not resonate. People will not be able to see it.
Q. Are there Muslim nations that are moving toward these goals?
A. A peaceful transformation toward freedom and democracy is happening in Indonesia. The media there expose corruption and support the demand for a proper judiciary. There have been some positive developments in Turkey too. Although in Turkey's case, they will have to ensure that freedom runs parallel to the constitutional framework they have and does not threaten the military.
Q. Is free media enough to bring Muslims out of trouble?
A. Free media is one. Free and fair elections are needed too. We must have rule of law, an independent judiciary, coupled with good governance.
Q. This is what the Muslims preach but when it comes to implementing their views, they create a government like that of the Taliban.
A. I have never subscribed to the view that the Taliban represented Muslim sentiments or Islam. It is contentious issue how the Taliban were created and supported. They did not manage the country, the economy and the institutions well. The Taliban did not represent the Islamic concept of governance.
Q. But the same thing is happening in Iran too?
A. Iran is different. In Iran, there was a general enthusiasm and euphoria for the change during the shah's regime. But the revolution has been stalled and finds itself in a lot of internal contradictions. I believe the Iranians have a great role to play if they allow for further reforms in the right direction. I would choose to look internally and resolve the problems ourselves.
Q. But it is difficult to deny that whenever given the chance, Islamic parties proved unqualified to run a government?
A. I disagree with that contention. How can we claim the Taliban had an Islamic ideology? Their ideology was different from what the Egyptians, the Malaysians and other Muslims believed in.
Q. In the 1980s, the Muslim world experienced a mushrooming of religious parties who wanted to set up Islamic states. But in 2005, the Islamic world seems to have returned to the liberal state that secular Muslim leaders talked about in the 1950s and
'60s.
A. I think I have benefitted from the literature produced by those groups and from exposure to the ideas of the leaders in the Islamic world, be it Ikhwan in the Arab world or Jamaat-e-Islami in Pakistan. But I do believe that demands of the time have changed. They need to continue and reform. I don't believe you should pre-judge their roles given the restrictions in place. I don't believe the Muslim masses have left Islam, although they may not support some of these parties.
The Muslim world has been run by secular parties, and they have been corrupt and repressive too. We should move ahead with Islamic ideas, accepting values from the East and the West.
Q. So you believe that an Islamic state is still possible?
A. Depends on what you mean by an Islamic state. An Islamic state must be free. It must respect human dignity. It must clear the mess the Muslims find themselves. An Islamic state must champion the plight of the poor and provide them with proper housing, good quality education, based on the principles of Islamic law.
Q. So you are arguing that the Sharia (the Islamic laws) can still be implemented?
A. Again, it depends on how you define the Sharia. What's the aim of the Sharia? To bring stability and good governance.
Q. Yes, but also veil and strict punishment.
A. I don't believe that Muslims should emphasize on these issues, forgetting the major crimes of corruption and repression. To me, the aim of the Sharia is to bring order and justice. You should not impose rigid views and interpretations of the religion.
Q. Based on your own experience in Malaysia, can you explain why Muslim leaders feel so insecure?
A. The leaders are insecure, opportunistic and corrupt. The system is not democratic enough. If you are in power, nobody questions you. I was the part of the system, as deputy prime minister from 1993-98 and as finance minister from '90 to '98.
If you are living in a glass house, you feel insecure. You start detaining people. There is no law and order. How do you expect Zimbabwe's Robert Mugabe to resign or former Filipino dictator Ferdinand Marcos to surrender? That's why having a system will be good for the leaders as well, they will be able to retire and live peacefully.
Q. Can you go back to Malaysia?
A. I cannot live in Malaysia. The government is repressive. The media is a hundred percent controlled by the government and still they claim to represent a moderate Islam.
Q. Did the people of your country believe the charges against you?
A. I should say that despite these years of campaigning against me, most people did not believe the charges. I went to mosque and villages and thousands came to listen to me. The courts also dropped the charges against me.
Q. How did it affect your family?
A. The children were strong. I had cautioned them before, explaining that it was part of the dirty political campaign. My wife has been very supportive, explaining the case to the whole world.
Q. Do you see a less vindictive, a more democratic leadership emerging in the Islamic world?
A. If you allow some freedom and fair elections, people will move and choose better leaders. The excesses of the current leaders will be exposed.
Q. Why can't Muslims have a leader like India's Mahatma Gandhi?
A. Because they are never given the opportunity. I would rate South Asian poet Mohammed Iqbal as a great philosopher and Pakistan's founder Mohammed Ali Jinnah as a great leader. We have had others who were killed or imprisoned. Remember, Gandhi emerged in the colonial period. It would be more difficult to have a leader like him now, although India is more democratic.
Q. Yet India was, and perhaps still is, a poor Third World country and they have democracy and the rule of law. Why not Muslims?
A. There's nothing in Islam that prevents democracy. What is happening is the clear abuse of religion.
http://www.washtimes.com/upi-breaking/20050406-042026-4129r.htm |
_________________
Muslim, compare Quran with THIS WISDOM & your Friday sermon with THIS SERMON. Which one can make you a better person? |
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skonk4
Joined: 18 Oct 2004
Posts: 938
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| Posted: Wed May 11, 2005 3:15 pm Post subject: |
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well whadoyaknow ... Anwar Ibrahim lives in Washington now ? The jahiliyah state, the big satan, friend of the jews, that he condemned so fervently during his heydays ? That hypocritical corrupt hijabbed wife of his is coming along ??? hahahahahhhhhh
That is what I call K A R M A ! hahahahahahahahhhhhhhhhh ... J O Y !
Now they are all gooey and teary, pretending to be a victim of politics. Now they know how it feels to be DHIMMIs. Welcome to America, tuan dan puan Anwar ... eat your own words, you bastards !!
If I meet this guy I would put up his (and his wife's) arse pictures of him smirking next to Mahathir united in their hate for the Jews. Those good old days ... thank you thank you G-d .... there is a G-d after all ... thank youuuuuuu!!
Last edited by skonk4 on Wed May 11, 2005 3:18 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Galadriel
Joined: 19 Mar 2005
Posts: 2143
Location: Australia
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| Posted: Wed May 11, 2005 3:18 pm Post subject: |
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| skonk4 wrote: |
well whadoyaknow ... Anwar Ibrahim lives in Washington now ? The jahiliyah state, the big satan, friend of the jews, that he condemned so fervently during his heydays ?
That is what I call K A R M A ! hahahahahahahahhhhhhhhhh ... J O Y !
Now he is all gooey and teary, pretending to be a victim of politics. Now he knows how it feels to be a DHIMMI.
If I meet this guy I would put up his arse pictures of him smirking next to Mahathir united in their hate for the Jews. Those good old days ...
thank you thank you G-d .... there is a G-d after all ... thank youuuuuuu!! |
Give him a chance. He is a "moderate Muslim." He is a friend to USA now many thanks to Al Gore. 
_________________
Muslim, compare Quran with THIS WISDOM & your Friday sermon with THIS SERMON. Which one can make you a better person? |
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skonk4
Joined: 18 Oct 2004
Posts: 938
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| Posted: Wed May 11, 2005 3:23 pm Post subject: |
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| Galadriel wrote: |
| [Give him a chance. He is a "moderate Muslim." He is a friend to USA now many thanks to Al Gore. |
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You mean, HE is calling himself moderate now ? Well whadoyouknow ... He'd call himself anything as long as he can benefit from it. What has this moderate muslim ever done for Chinese Malaysians languishing in jail for disapproving with Mahathir, or muslim apostates, when he was Minister or was it Deputy PM ? Has he said anything sympathetic towards Salman Rushdie ? NOW, YES NOW he will of course, saying that he was then oppressed. Oppressed MY ARSE ! Tell me what he has done for kafirs and infidels ? ABSOLUTELY BUGGER ALL !!
Give him a chance ? Yeah right ! I tell you what I give him : MY ARSE ! He HAD his chance and now he's finished !
Even Goebbels derserve more R E S P E C T than Mr Anwar Ibrahim moderate muslim bastard. Goebbels at least stuck by his henchman master till the very end ! Ibrahim licks anybody's behind and throws in the towel when he is caught out ! |
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Ajax
Joined: 12 Jul 2004
Posts: 2927
Location: Elysian Fields
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| Posted: Wed May 11, 2005 5:59 pm Post subject: |
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| Galadriel wrote: |
| Give him a chance. He is a "moderate Muslim." He is a friend to USA now many thanks to Al Gore. |
Some of his quotes do not make me think he's a moderate muslim.
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| A. I disagree with that contention. How can we claim the Taliban had an Islamic ideology? Their ideology was different from what the Egyptians, the Malaysians and other Muslims believed in. |
If you have to question what ideology Taliban follows, then you are an Islam apologist. The aim of Taliban is to create a "perfect" society that mirrors the time of Mohammed. In that sense, they are the "True Muslims", not the Egyptians, the Malaysians and others that are not even close to the current Saudi Arabia's society - the home of Islam.
| Quote: |
Q. So you believe that an Islamic state is still possible?
A. Depends on what you mean by an Islamic state. An Islamic state must be free. It must respect human dignity. It must clear the mess the Muslims find themselves. An Islamic state must champion the plight of the poor and provide them with proper housing, good quality education, based on the principles of Islamic law.
Q. So you are arguing that the Sharia (the Islamic laws) can still be implemented?
A. Again, it depends on how you define the Sharia. What's the aim of the Sharia? To bring stability and good governance. |
Can't be done. Shariah and "justice for all..." are not compatible. An islamic state must be based on Sharia. There is only one Sharia and it does not depend on how one defines it. Can an Islamic state be free when Islam itself means "Submission"? IMHO, no person who thinks that Sharia should be the law can be called moderate.
| Quote: |
| A. I don't believe that Muslims should emphasize on these issues, forgetting the major crimes of corruption and repression. To me, the aim of the Sharia is to bring order and justice. You should not impose rigid views and interpretations of the religion. |
But that is what Shariah is: The imposition of rigid views of the religion to the people. |
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skonk4
Joined: 18 Oct 2004
Posts: 938
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| Posted: Thu May 12, 2005 8:03 am Post subject: |
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| Thanks Ajax. The sight of muslims eating HUMBLE PIE delights me enormously ! |
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nomad
Joined: 01 Apr 2004
Posts: 6320
Location: Allahpalooza
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| Posted: Thu May 12, 2005 9:03 am Post subject: |
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| Cyberite wrote: |
| Nobody is going to "give" Muslims anything. Freedom and justice must be taken by those who desire it. |
Guess the corollary is that those who desire but are unable to 'take' deserves to have freedom and justice taken away from them. Guess the abolitionists of slavery were wrong.
_________________
"We do not differentiate between those dressed in military uniforms and civilians; they are all targets in this fatwah," Osama bin Laden 1998
"I consider every American my enemy." Zacarias Moussaoui 2006 |
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HarryOhm
Joined: 11 Apr 2005
Posts: 138
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| Posted: Thu May 12, 2005 3:19 pm Post subject: Re: ANWAR IBRAHIM: MUSLIM LEADERS & MEDIA ARE CORRUPTS |
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| Galadriel wrote: |
| Quote: |
Q&A: Former Malay deputy PM Anwar Ibrahim
By Anwar Iqbal
UPI South Asian Affairs Analyst
Q. So you believe that an Islamic state is still possible?
A. Depends on what you mean by an Islamic state. An Islamic state must be free. It must respect human dignity. It must clear the mess the Muslims find themselves. An Islamic state must champion the plight of the poor and provide them with proper housing, good quality education, based on the principles of Islamic law.
http://www.washtimes.com/upi-breaking/20050406-042026-4129r.htm |
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Ever notice how all such statements from Muslims about free media and democratic governance and the like is always followed by that little qualifier, "principles of Islamic law"?
Its just that Islamic law totally lacks any concepts like "free media/press" and "democratic rule", thus negating any talk of them as "principles".
A democratic Islamic state is an oxymoron. You can have one or the other, never both.
Its a lie!
Regards. |
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Humanist
Joined: 04 Sep 2004
Posts: 8520
Location: Kentucky, USA
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| Posted: Thu May 12, 2005 3:41 pm Post subject: |
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We do not need folks like him teaching at Johns Hopkins. It is the same old Islamic coverup.
Islam is anti-democratic. The only reason he is speaking out about the repression in his country is because he no longer has the power to repress his country.
He did not like the rules so he took his ball and left.
The US should kick his ass out of my country.
_________________
"Good people sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf." - George Orwell |
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Galadriel
Joined: 19 Mar 2005
Posts: 2143
Location: Australia
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| Posted: Thu May 12, 2005 4:34 pm Post subject: |
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While living in USA, I hope that Anwar will become a Christian preacher who go around America preaching against Islam. This will give a great shock to the Muslim world.
If not possible, hopefully one of his children will murtad.
Listen to interview with Anwar Ibrahim
Anwar Ibrahim tours Australia
http://www.abc.net.au/reslib/200503/r43350_111366.asx
_________________
Muslim, compare Quran with THIS WISDOM & your Friday sermon with THIS SERMON. Which one can make you a better person? |
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pilgrim
Joined: 22 Feb 2004
Posts: 2054
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| Posted: Thu May 12, 2005 5:55 pm Post subject: Re: ANWAR IBRAHIM: MUSLIM LEADERS & MEDIA ARE CORRUPTS |
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[quote="Galadriel"][quote]
[b][color=red][size=24]Q&A: Former Malay deputy PM Anwar Ibrahim[/size][/color][/b]
By Anwar Iqbal
UPI South Asian Affairs Analyst
Washington, DC, Apr. 6 (UPI) -- Muslims will never get respect unless they have peace and justice in their own societies, according to Anwar Ibrahim, the former Malaysian deputy prime minister, who United Press International interviewed in Washington.
[b]Ibrahim is now in Washington, associated with Johns Hopkins University's School of Advanced International Studies as a "distinguished senior visiting fellow" and hopes to bring his wife and family too.[/b] |
Based on full text of the interview with Ibrahim, this guy is dangerous as a teacher even in Saudi Arabia and Afganistan under Taliban.
best regards
_________________
"A dead thing can go with the stream...but only a living thing can go against it." G.K. Chesterton
"we believe the church and the world both benefit when civilized people are "locked together in an argument". G. K. Chesterton |
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Galadriel
Joined: 19 Mar 2005
Posts: 2143
Location: Australia
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AussieIslander
Joined: 06 Dec 2004
Posts: 315
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| Posted: Thu May 12, 2005 11:47 pm Post subject: |
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| Humanist wrote: |
We do not need folks like him teaching at Johns Hopkins. It is the same old Islamic coverup.
Islam is anti-democratic. The only reason he is speaking out about the repression in his country is because he no longer has the power to repress his country.
He did not like the rules so he took his ball and left.
The US should kick his ass out of my country. |
You specialise in writing crap, don't you? This guy spent years in gaol on false charges, after being beaten up, when he tried to control corruption, nepotism and croneyism (concepts not alien the the US political system, I might add). He's now at a US university teaching, who would you prefer, the US's old buddy Saddam? Moron.
_________________
There are no words I can use
Because the meaning still leaves for you to choose
And I couldn’t stand to let them be abused, by you
Guess Who |
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Humanist
Joined: 04 Sep 2004
Posts: 8520
Location: Kentucky, USA
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| Posted: Fri May 13, 2005 2:59 am Post subject: |
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| AussieIslander wrote: |
| Humanist wrote: |
We do not need folks like him teaching at Johns Hopkins. It is the same old Islamic coverup.
Islam is anti-democratic. The only reason he is speaking out about the repression in his country is because he no longer has the power to repress his country.
He did not like the rules so he took his ball and left.
The US should kick his ass out of my country. |
You specialise in writing crap, don't you? This guy spent years in gaol on false charges, after being beaten up, when he tried to control corruption, nepotism and croneyism (concepts not alien the the US political system, I might add). He's now at a US university teaching, who would you prefer, the US's old buddy Saddam? Moron. |
You have an agenda? Simply because you are so poorly read on World War II and I countered your statements, does that mean you follow me around and negatively respond to my post?
My comments were based simply on the fellows response to the questions in the interview. I made my statements and they mean nothing else.
No, I try my best not to post crap; however, if you feel that my post are carp, so be it. But, in fact I doubt that you can prove that my posts are carp. After all Australia did single handedly win World War II. If you refuse to read history that is not my fault.
_________________
"Good people sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf." - George Orwell |
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AussieIslander
Joined: 06 Dec 2004
Posts: 315
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| Posted: Fri May 13, 2005 3:14 am Post subject: |
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You have an agenda? Simply because you are so poorly read on World War II and I countered your statements, does that mean you follow me around and negatively respond to my post?
My comments were based simply on the fellows response to the questions in the interview. I made my statements and they mean nothing else.
No, I try my best not to post crap; however, if you feel that my post are carp, so be it. But, in fact I doubt that you can prove that my posts are carp. After all Australia did single handedly win World War II. If you refuse to read history that is not my fault |
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I have no agenda. You obviously know nothing about Anwar Ibrihim, while I knwo quite a bit. For a Muslim he's a very good man, far better than many. His wife Wan Aziza is also a fine human being.
I'm poorly read on WWII?? What a friggin' joke, you're the nincompoop who raved on about the "US Baltic Sea Fleet"!! After that gem I'd doubt you'd know the first thing about WWII.[/quote]
_________________
There are no words I can use
Because the meaning still leaves for you to choose
And I couldn’t stand to let them be abused, by you
Guess Who |
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