Continuing the Slam Dunk Show

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[AhmedBahgat]

Hello all:

The following is an example of the confused mentality of some kafirs on FFI web site:

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[AhmedBahgat]

Hello All

This comment is going to be a serious of slams, I will reply in all these comments to any argument raised by the confused goons of FFI against sura 9, I replied to their allegations many times but this time is going to be slowly and by using Free Islam translation, the most accurate one as far as I believe, of course Free Islam translation had forced me to enhance and prefect my understanding to the verses in question in this sura, the first slam in my next group of slams will be based on verses 9:1-7 only:

On the Kuffar web site FaithFreedom.com they consistently use 9:29 to defame the Quran, Islam and all Muslims, what they deliberately do is take the verse (alone) then manipulate it out of its context to cook a clear cut lie, the context of any sura in the Quran is not something the Muslims invented as a refute to those ignorant enemy of Islam, the context is in front of every one's eyes for 1400 years and can be clearly read in the verses before 9:29 and beyond, that is why they had to only look at 9:29 and ignore the rest of Sura no 9, sometimes they select other verses and present them on their own to mislead as much as they can, they are deliberately blind, they can not be trusted as a source of information about this great religion, there is no doubt that they have an agenda against this great religion, I wonder why they are failing so bad for 1400 years?

9:29 is related to a very well known incident regarding the Kabba, the Kabba was a place for all to come to worship God and also to do business (trading), even the Mushrikoon used to go there and do whatever they want, most of them used to go around the Kabba as a method of worshipping their idols to get them closer to Allah, that is why they are called Mushrikoon from the first place, when the Muslims reclaimed the kabba, they offered Al Mushrikoon a treaty if the comply with the new laws of the land of Mecca. It is also alleged in some history books that the Mushrikoon used to do a very indecent act, they used to do the Tawaf (going around the Kabba) naked, exactly like the filthy scenes we see in the Mardi Gras every year around the flawed world. When Mohammad reclaimed the Kabba, any filthy act by the Mushrikoon had to stop, this is when these verses in Sura 9 was revealed (sure 9 is the last sura that was revealed which means it was revealed at the last days of Mohammad before he died, we also notice that it does not have the Bismillah (in the name of Allah....), some say that it does not have the Bismillah because it is full of threats to those Mushrikoon and their filthy act around the Kabba, but I can't buy this because the Quran in many of the other suras that start with the Bismillah are still threatening the Mushrikoon big times.

The objective and the message of Sura 9 is clear and it was to reclaim the Kabba the house of Allah and free it from all these filthy acts. Looking at all the verses that I brought in, we will see the picture crystal clear, I will list the verses in English then the original language in Arabic, and my walkthrough will follow:

1- (Declaration of) disassociation, from Allah and His messenger towards those of the polytheists with whom you made a treaty (but they violated it).

2- So walk freely in the land for four months and know that you cannot cause failure to Allah and that Allah will disgrace to the unbelievers.

3- And an announcement from Allah and His messenger to the people on the day of the greater pilgrimage that Allah is disassociated from the polytheists (who violated the treaty) and so His messenger; therefore if you repent, it will be better for you, and if you turn back, then know that you will not cause failure to Allah. And give tidings to those who have disbelieved of a painful torture.

4- Except those with whom you made a treaty from among the polytheists, then they have not failed you in anything and have not backed up against you any one, so fulfil their treaty until their term; indeed Allah loves the pious.

5- And when the sacred months have passed, then kill the polytheists (who violated the treaty) wherever you find them, and take them captives and besiege them and sit in wait for them at every place of ambush, but if they repent and stand up for the prayer and pay the poor-due, then leave their way free; indeed Allah is Forgiving, Merciful.

6- And if one of the polytheists seeks protection from you, grant him protection so he hears the word of Allah, then deliver him to his place of safety; this is because they are a people who do not know.

7- How can there be a treaty with the polytheists concerning Allah and concerning His messenger; except those with whom you made a treaty at the sacred mosque? So as long as they are straight to you, be straight to them; indeed Allah loves the pious.
[The Quran ; 9:1-7]

بَرَاءةٌ مِّنَ اللّهِ وَرَسُولِهِ إِلَى الَّذِينَ عَاهَدتُّم مِّنَ الْمُشْرِكِينَ (1)
فَسِيحُواْ فِي الأَرْضِ أَرْبَعَةَ أَشْهُرٍ وَاعْلَمُواْ أَنَّكُمْ غَيْرُ مُعْجِزِي اللّهِ وَأَنَّ اللّهَ مُخْزِي الْكَافِرِينَ (2)
وَأَذَانٌ مِّنَ اللّهِ وَرَسُولِهِ إِلَى النَّاسِ يَوْمَ الْحَجِّ الأَكْبَرِ أَنَّ اللّهَ بَرِيءٌ مِّنَ الْمُشْرِكِينَ وَرَسُولُهُ فَإِن تُبْتُمْ فَهُوَ خَيْرٌ لَّكُمْ وَإِن تَوَلَّيْتُمْ فَاعْلَمُواْ أَنَّكُمْ غَيْرُ مُعْجِزِي اللّهِ وَبَشِّرِ الَّذِينَ كَفَرُواْ بِعَذَابٍ أَلِيمٍ (3)
إِلاَّ الَّذِينَ عَاهَدتُّم مِّنَ الْمُشْرِكِينَ ثُمَّ لَمْ يَنقُصُوكُمْ شَيْئًا وَلَمْ يُظَاهِرُواْ عَلَيْكُمْ أَحَدًا فَأَتِمُّواْ إِلَيْهِمْ عَهْدَهُمْ إِلَى مُدَّتِهِمْ إِنَّ اللّهَ يُحِبُّ الْمُتَّقِينَ (4)
فَإِذَا انسَلَخَ الأَشْهُرُ الْحُرُمُ فَاقْتُلُواْ الْمُشْرِكِينَ حَيْثُ وَجَدتُّمُوهُمْ وَخُذُوهُمْ وَاحْصُرُوهُمْ وَاقْعُدُواْ لَهُمْ كُلَّ مَرْصَدٍ فَإِن تَابُواْ وَأَقَامُواْ الصَّلاَةَ وَآتَوُاْ الزَّكَاةَ فَخَلُّواْ سَبِيلَهُمْ إِنَّ اللّهَ غَفُورٌ رَّحِيمٌ (5)
وَإِنْ أَحَدٌ مِّنَ الْمُشْرِكِينَ اسْتَجَارَكَ فَأَجِرْهُ حَتَّى يَسْمَعَ كَلاَمَ اللّهِ ثُمَّ أَبْلِغْهُ مَأْمَنَهُ ذَلِكَ بِأَنَّهُمْ قَوْمٌ لاَّ يَعْلَمُونَ (6)
كَيْفَ يَكُونُ لِلْمُشْرِكِينَ عَهْدٌ عِندَ اللّهِ وَعِندَ رَسُولِهِ إِلاَّ الَّذِينَ عَاهَدتُّمْ عِندَ الْمَسْجِدِ الْحَرَامِ فَمَا اسْتَقَامُواْ لَكُمْ فَاسْتَقِيمُواْ لَهُمْ إِنَّ اللّهَ يُحِبُّ الْمُتَّقِينَ (7)

-> Verse 1, when the incident happened, Allah wanted Mohammad to make an agreement with those filthy Mushrikoon, by telling them that they should stop their Mardi Gras and possibly other filthy acts around the House of Allah, all they needed to do is to act properly and decently even if they are still Mushrikoon and they will have immunity/protection, like a treaty, now, verse 1 is disassociating Allah and His prophet from those Mushrikoon who will break that truce: (Declaration of) disassociation, from Allah and His messenger towards those of the polytheists with whom you made a treaty (but they violated it). , this is Free Islam translation which I believe is the most accurate and most literal translation that will be found any where, the message of verse 1 is OBVIOUS, it is taking about some MUSHRIKOON who live or visit the city of Mecca, who MADE A TREATY with the Muslims regarding the new rules (law of the land) that will govern the city of Mecca after it was freed by the Muslims at the end of the prophet mission. Verse 1 is specifically talking about those of the Mushrikoon who accepted the treaty then VIOLATED it. The first word in the verse: بَرَاءةٌ , Bara’aa, i.e. Not guilty literally, I used the word disassociation to translate it because the word may also mean so, it is like I am disassociating myself from someone, if we take the verse so literal, then the message should be as follow, Allah and His prophet will be NOT GUILTY against those of the Mushrikoon who accepted the treaty, how polite, it is like Allah knows that the Mushrikoon will yet charge Him and His prophet with aggression against them but Allah is telling us that He and Mohammed will be NOT GUILTY. I added the words (but they violated it) in Free Islam translation to make it easy for the reader to understand the verses, this is not something that I invented, rather it will be said clearly in verse 4.

-> Verse 2, the message of the verse is simply as follow:

There is 4 sacred months in the lunar year, humans used to come to the Kabba from every corner in these 4 months, one month of these 4 is the one when the great Hajj is performed, it is like, in the other 3 months they used to do a minor version of Hajj or do some trades, during this time also, the Muslims are not allowed to fight their enemy UNLESS IT IS A MUST, the verse message is simply, mentioning those 4 months as being the period for ANOTHER treaty between those Mushrikoon who violated the first treaty in Mecca, in other words, the Mushrikoon who violated the first treaty desired to oppose the new laws of the land (Mecca) and wanted to fight the new rulers, so a second treaty was taken, which is not to fight in those 4 sacred months, both parties should wait until those 4 months are finished then the Muslims can fight the Mushrikoon who violated the first treaty: So walk freely in the land for four months, see how clear, the verse message is to tell the Mushrikoon who violated the first treaty in Mecca that they have another treaty of no war for 4 months, in these 4 months, those Mushrikoon who violated the first treaty can walk freely in the land, the land of Mecca of course, not the land of America.

The verse however told those Mushrikoon who violated treaty # 1 (the new laws in Mecca) but accepted treaty # 2 (not to fight in those 4 sacred months) that while they are free to walk in the land of Mecca during those 4 months: and know that you cannot cause failure to Allah and that Allah will disgrace to the unbelievers. this is actually a message of mercy from Allah, to constantly threaten those disbelievers who violated treaty # 1 and accepted treaty # 2 and are waiting for the 4 sacred months to finish so they fight the new rulers of Mecca (the Muslims), a message that they should stop their aggression or disgrace will be their reward. i.e. if they stopped it, they would have saved themselves from such disgrace, i.e. a message of mercy to save their own selves.

-> Verse 3, the message of the verse is clear, it is the same message in verse 1 but being announced to the Mushrikoon on the day of the great Hajj, the verse is also using the same word that Allah and His messenger will be بَرِيءٌ , Baree’e , i.e. Not guilty against those Mushrikoon who violated treaty # 1 (the new laws in Mecca): And an announcement from Allah and His messenger to the people on the day of the greater pilgrimage that Allah is disassociated from the polytheists (who violated the treaty), and so His messenger; what comes next is yet another message of mercy for those Mushrikoon who violated treaty # 1 and accepted treaty # 2 to repent from fighting the Muslims because they suppose to be on hold of fighting during those 4 sacred months (treaty # 2): therefore if you repent, it will be better for you, , see, better for them, but if they insist on fighting the Muslims after the expiry of the period of treaty # 2 (the 4 sacred months): and if you turn back, then know that you will not cause failure to Allah. And give tidings to those who have disbelieved of a painful torture. , how clear

-> Verse 4, This is where Allah will inform us that what He is talking about all along in the pervious 4 verses are those Mushrikoon who violated treaty # 1 (the new laws in Mecca), in this verse also, things will start to become a bit clearer. Some Mushrikoon were intelligent enough to understand that what the have to honour treaty # 1: Except those with whom you made a treaty from among the polytheists, then they have not failed you in anything and have not backed up against you any one, see how clear has become, i.e. verse 9:1, 9:2 and 9:3 are 100% talking about those from among Al Mushrikoon who violated treaty # 1, now for those Mushrikoon who violated treaty # 1 and accepted treaty # 2 while honouring it, i.e. those have not failed the Muslims in anything during the 4 sacred months no war treaty, as well have not backed up against the Muslims any one during those 4 sacred months no war treaty, this is how the Muslims should have treated them during those 4 months no war treaty: so fulfil their treaty until their term; indeed Allah loves the pious. i.e. the Muslims must honour treaty # 2 as long as the Mushrikoon who violated treaty # 1 and accepted treaty # 2 are honouring treaty # 2 of not fighting the Muslim during those 4 sacred months as well not backing up anyone against the Muslims.

-> Verse 5, in this verse, we read what should the Muslims do with those Mushrikoon who violated treaty # 1 and accepted treaty # 2, after the end of no war period according to treaty # 2, i.e. if the 4 sacred months finish and the Mushrikoon who have not accepted the new laws in the land of Mecca (treaty #1), have not repented yet of their desire to fight and kill the Muslims, then the Muslims should fight and kill them likewise: And when the sacred months have passed, then kill the polytheists (who violated the treaty) wherever you find them, and take them captives and besiege them and sit in wait for them at every place of ambush, , yet, even after the fight starts, the door of repenting is still open for those Mushrikoon who insist on violating the new law of the land of Mecca after the Muslims reclaimed it: but if they repent and stand up for the prayer and pay the poor-due, then leave their way free; indeed Allah is Forgiving, Merciful. The Kafirs of FFI may get confused in here, you have to know that the Salat mentioned in here does not really mean the Islamic Salat and the Islamic Zakat, in fact these practises were known to the ancient people before them, Praying and paying Zakat are the reasons for many of al Mushrikoon to visit the Kabba from the first place, it was not like they wanted to have a barbecue party in there, In fact the word Mushrikoon means that they already believe in Allah, they just associate with him other idols whom they thought will get them nearer to Allah, i.e. they used to pray to their idols and pay Zakat as means of getting them closer to Allah: let’s look at the following verse:

Surely, to Allah belongs the sincere religion, and (as for) those who take guardians other than Him, (saying): We do not worship them except that they may get us nearer to Allah. Indeed, Allah will judge between them in that in which they differ; surely Allah does not guide who is a liar, disbeliever.
[The Quran ; 39:3]

أَلَا لِلَّهِ الدِّينُ الْخَالِصُ ۚ وَالَّذِينَ اتَّخَذُوا مِنْ دُونِهِ أَوْلِيَاءَ مَا نَعْبُدُهُمْ إِلَّا لِيُقَرِّبُونَا إِلَى اللَّهِ زُلْفَىٰ إِنَّ اللَّهَ يَحْكُمُ بَيْنَهُمْ فِي مَا هُمْ فِيهِ يَخْتَلِفُونَ ۗ إِنَّ اللَّهَ لَا يَهْدِي مَنْ هُوَ كَاذِبٌ كَفَّارٌ (3)

-> See what Al Mushrikoon say in defence of their shirking other Idols other than Allah: those who take guardians other than Him, (saying): We do not worship them except that they may get us nearer to Allah.

Therefore, those Mushrikoon who desire to visit the Kabba ARE ALREADY BELIEVERS IN ALLAH, they only associate idols with Allah to get them closer to Allah, i.e. the Salat and Zakat that are mentioned in verse 9:5, are the Salat and Zakat that suppose to be performed by those Mushrikoon but only after they get rid of their shirk and do it according to the belief in Allah alone, not in Allah and other idols other than Him to get them closer to Him.

This should Totally demolish the non sense by the ignorant and confused goons of FFI, the idiots do not know that a Mushrik is some one who already believes in Allah but shirk others (than Him) with Him, 39:3 CONFIRMED such fact.

-> Verse 6, will confirm what I said about verse 5, you will see that Allah is still referring to them as Mushrikoon (idolaters) but is telling the believers that they MUST PROTECT THEM if they seek protection of course they are complying with treaty # 1 concerning the new law of the land of Mecca : And if one of the polytheists seeks protection from you, grant him protection so he hears the word of Allah, then deliver him to his place of safety; this is because they are a people who do not know. certainly if a Mushrik who claims to be believing in Allah from the first place and just got confused with his shirk, while living in the land of Mecca under the new law of the land, it is so logical that they will hear the proper message from Allah that should rid them of shirking their idols with Allah during the season of Hajj, , see how the verse described their confusion of BELIEF, at the end: this is because they are a people who do not know.

-> Verse 7, Allah is summing it up all the above verses beautifully, for those who violated any of the treaties, #1 and # 2, how come the Muslims may honour their treaty back? It cannot be of course: How can there be a treaty with the polytheists concerning Allah, and concerning His messenger; [b], now for those among Al Mushrikoon who honoured treaty # 1 or even violated it but honoured treaty # 2, the Muslims must honour the treaty back: [b except those with whom you made a treaty at the sacred mosque? So as long as they are straight to you, be straight to them; indeed Allah loves the pious.,

Here you have it, a perfect slam, let me summarize to you the stupidity of the goons of FFI:

1) Verse # 1 clearly talks about a first treaty (#1) between the Muslims and the idolaters, which is relating to the new law of the land of Mecca (which contains the Kabba), those who will respect the new laws and stop making Salat and paying Zakat to their idols inside the Kabba to get them nearer to Allah (as they think), will be protected and delivered to their places of safety

2) Verse # 2 and verse # 3 talk about a second treaty (#2) between the Muslims and the idolaters who refused to comply with treaty (#1), i.e. they insisted on worshipping their idols inside the Kabba, simply due to the fact that the Muslims have 4 sacred months where a season of Hajj is performed, they should not be fighting those Mushrikoon who insist on their shirk, so another treaty is offered to cease fire during those 4 sacred months. The Mushrikoon who honour such 4 months of cease fire, are allowed to walk freely in the land of Mecca.

3) Verse # 4 excludes those Mushrikoon who honour treaty # 1, or violated it but accepted treaty # 2 of cease fire for 4 months where they will be allowed to walk freely in the land and while not backing up any enemy against the Muslims, the verse clearly stresses dealing with them with kindness and even protect them if they seek protection (from a possible hostile believers who live in Mecca)

4) Verse 5 is dealing with the situation when treaty # 2 expires, i.e. the season of Hajj during the 4 sacred months is finished, in such situation the Muslims should fight the Mushrikoon who (the Mushrikoon) insisted on fighting the Muslims from the first place after refusing to comply with treaty # 1 then refusing to repent. The fact that verse 5 is talking about those Mushrikoon of doing Salat and paying Zakat cannot be used against the verse because Al Mushrikoon SHOULD BE ALREADY DOING SO, they only do it for their idols to get them nearer to Allah. See the ignorant goons of FFI do not know that a Mushrik is already a believer in Allah, he/she only shirk their belief in Allah with other idols.

5) Verse 6 is dealing with the fact that those Mushrikoon who accepted treaty # 1 and live in the land of Mecca may listen to the right message which should rid them of their shirking other with Allah to get them nearer to Him.

6) Verse 7 is summing all the above in very short and impressive words, simply, there should be no honour of a treaty with those who violate the treaty, but for those who honour the treaty should be honoured likewise and even protected if they seek protection.

Nothing in any of these verses that may imply the slightest forcing the Mushrikoon to believe in Allah, IT CANNOT BE BECAUSE A MUSHRIK IS ALREADY A BELIEVER IN ALLAH, that is how dumb, confused and ignorant the FFI goons are

Another mother of all slams:

# 43
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[quote="AhmedBahgat"]

[skynightblaze]

[quote="ghostbusting"]

[skynightblaze]

@ahmed

Just tell me one thing. Were muslims supposed to have treaty with the treacherous pagans???? Yes or not would do it. According to me it is no since 9.3 , 9.4 and 9.7 indicate that muslims were not supposed to have any treaty with the treacherous pagans. Am i right?????
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Simba is my name and paedophile hunting is my game!!!

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[sum]

Hello my Slam Dunking friend, AhmedBahgat

Would you please answer the following for me?

Does one need context to fully understand the verses?

Are these verses instructions for muslims to act upon for all time in similar circumstances anywhere in the world?

Are these verses simply history with no other relevance?

sum

[Mullah Rock N Roll]

[sum]

Hello my Slam Dunking friend, AhmedBahgat

Don`t forget to answer my questions.

Would you please answer the following for me?

Does one need context to fully understand the verses?

Are these verses instructions for muslims to act upon for all time in similar circumstances anywhere in the world?

Are these verses simply history with no other relevance?

sum

[AhmedBahgat]