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pvb
Joined: 17 May 2007
Posts: 34
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 Posted: Sat Dec 27, 2008 2:19 pm Post subject: translation |
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for the following, with their various meanings. Thanks!
I tried on another thread and ran into a bunch of ...
Waqawlihim -
inna -surely
qatalna -
almaseeha -messiah
AAeesa -Jesus
ibna - son of
maryama -Maryama
rasoola -messanger
Allahi - God
wama - ma=not, the wa negates? or and
qataloohu wama salaboohu walakin shubbiha lahum wa-inna allatheena ikhtalafoo feehi lafee shakkin minhu ma lahum bihi min AAilmin illa ittibaAAa alththanni wama qataloohu yaqeenan |
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AhmedBahgat
Joined: 25 Jan 2006
Posts: 10001
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| Posted: Sat Dec 27, 2008 2:55 pm Post subject: Re: translation |
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Good that you learnt quickly how to ask a Quran question properly, looks like you are a quick learner, let me now answer you question, I will put the meaning under each one:
| pvb wrote: |
for the following, with their various meanings. Thanks!
I tried on another thread and ran into a bunch of ... |
Try to be honest and say: This take two because I did not know how to aks the question in Take one
and their saying
Indeed, we
have killed
| pvb wrote: |
| almaseeha -messiah |
Wrong, Al Masih means the one who wipes other humans with his hands to heal them
Not entirely right
Isa in Arabic should be trnalsated, Isa
that was an eeasy one for you
| pvb wrote: |
| maryama -Maryama |
Hmmm, why you did not make Mary, as you made Isa, Jesus?
see how confused you are
Maryam in Arabic should stay Maryam in English, like Isa and Isa
| pvb wrote: |
rasoola -messanger |
another easy one for you
Wrong, God in english is Ilah in Arabic
Allah in Arabic = Allah in English, you know like Maryam and Maryam, and, Isa and Isa
| pvb wrote: |
| wama - ma=not, the wa negates? or and |
wa = and (that should be another easy one for you)
now you can not translate Ma on its own because Ma has many uses, it can mean 'What", and it also denies verbs that come after it, thereofr we need the word after it to be able to translate it, in this case we need the word Qataluhu, i.e.
Wa Ma Qataluhu = and they do not kill him
Read aboove
| pvb wrote: |
| wama salaboohu |
and they did not crucify him
| pvb wrote: |
| walakin shubbiha lahum |
and it was made to appear to them
| pvb wrote: |
| wa-inna allatheena ikhtalafoo feehi |
and indeed, those who differed in him
| pvb wrote: |
| lafee shakkin minhu |
are in doubt about him
| pvb wrote: |
| ma lahum bihi min AAilmin |
and they have of it no knowledge
| pvb wrote: |
| illa ittibaAAa alththanni |
but following conjectures
| pvb wrote: |
| wama qataloohu yaqeenan |
and they did not kill him for certain
-------------------------
here you have it, now there no other possible meanings, what I posted is the only meaning for all words in the verse
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Nosubmission
Joined: 02 Nov 2008
Posts: 212
Location: Human flesh
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| Posted: Sat Dec 27, 2008 2:58 pm Post subject: |
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Still no answer to my question WHO killed Jesus according to the Koran!
I do not want to know who did NOT kill Jesus, but who DID kill Him. LOL
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AhmedBahgat
Joined: 25 Jan 2006
Posts: 10001
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| Posted: Sat Dec 27, 2008 3:03 pm Post subject: |
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| Nosubmission wrote: |
Still no answer to my question WHO killed Jesus according to the Koran!
I do not want to know who did NOT kill Jesus, but who DID kill Him. LOL |
Mister confused:
THEY DID NOT KILL HIM NOR THEY CRUCIFIED HIM
that is what the Quran said, therefore, no one killed jesus because the same Quran told us, RATHER ALLAH RAISED HIM after He caused him to die naturally
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ghostbusting
Joined: 12 Dec 2008
Posts: 120
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| Posted: Sat Dec 27, 2008 3:20 pm Post subject: |
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| Nosubmission wrote: |
Still no answer to my question WHO killed Jesus according to the Koran!
I do not want to know who did NOT kill Jesus, but who DID kill Him. LOL |
Nobody killed him. He was rescued.
_________________
Ali Sina to me (abridged):"If you don't like someone's tone don't read their comments. I do that and I have kept my peace for seven years."
I like this advice. Ali, it is really working and I am keeping my peace. |
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Haik Monsieur
Joined: 17 Sep 2006
Posts: 2393
Location: FFI
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| Posted: Sat Dec 27, 2008 3:28 pm Post subject: |
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| ghostbusting wrote: |
| Nosubmission wrote: |
Still no answer to my question WHO killed Jesus according to the Koran!
I do not want to know who did NOT kill Jesus, but who DID kill Him. LOL |
Nobody killed him. He was rescued. |
Quran just says Jews did not kill Jesus. Quran says Jews did not crucify Jesus.
And none argues otherwise. It was Romans who crucified Jesus. Quran knows Romans (in fact there is a chapter in Quran named Rome) but is mute on what they did to Jesus. All of Quran's acrobatics is focused on what Jews did not. Jews did not kill nor crucified Jesus. That's all.
Read your book in context. At least be honest to do so.
KhaliL
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Nosubmission
Joined: 02 Nov 2008
Posts: 212
Location: Human flesh
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| Posted: Sat Dec 27, 2008 3:36 pm Post subject: |
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| AhmedBahgat wrote: |
| Nosubmission wrote: |
Still no answer to my question WHO killed Jesus according to the Koran!
I do not want to know who did NOT kill Jesus, but who DID kill Him. LOL |
Mister confused:
THEY DID NOT KILL HIM NOR THEY CRUCIFIED HIM
that is what the Quran said, therefore, no one killed jesus because the same Quran told us, RATHER ALLAH RAISED HIM after He caused him to die naturally |
Once more you are quoting from the Koran the verse that says who did NOT crucify and kill Jesus. We know that your Koran says it was not the Jews.
If Allah caused Jesus to die naturally, this means who killed Jesus was ALLAH. However, the verses you have quoted does not talk about Jesus' supposed natural death before His assumption:
Surah 4:157-158
And because of their saying: We slew the Messiah, Jesus son of Mary, Allah's messenger - they slew him not nor crucified him, but it appeared so unto them; and lo! those who disagree concerning it are in doubt thereof; they have no knowledge thereof save pursuit of a conjecture; they slew him not for certain.But Allah took him up unto Himself. Allah was ever Mighty, Wise.
There is nothing explicit in this verse that relates the story of Jesus' passion. If a person reads this verse that overtly denies Jesus' murder by the Jews and tries to dismiss the historic reality of Jesus' crucifixion through the notion of guile/illusion in isolation, he/she concludes that Jesus was raised alive.
Was it only a coincidence that Allah supposedly ended Jesus' life at the exact time when His adversaries tried to kill Him (Surah 3:55)?
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pvb
Joined: 17 May 2007
Posts: 34
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pvb
Joined: 17 May 2007
Posts: 34
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| Posted: Sun Dec 28, 2008 4:01 pm Post subject: |
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That last page didn't come up right here it is copied:
Lexicon
Word: hrm0
Lexeme: rm0
Root: rm0
Word Number: 1246
Meaning: affirm
Pronunciation: (Eastern) AaMRaH
(Western) AaMRoH
Part of Speech: Verb
Gender: Masculine
Person: Third
Number: Singular
State:
Tense: Perfect
Form: PEAL
Suffix Gender: Feminine
Suffix Person: Third
Suffix Number: Singular
Lexeme Form:
Concordance
† Yukhanan — 1:29, 1:36
† Acts — 8:34
Lexicon
Word: hrm0
Lexeme: rm0
Root: rm0
Word Number: 1246
Meaning: say
Pronunciation: (Eastern) AaMRaH
(Western) AaMRoH
Part of Speech: Verb
Gender: Masculine
Person: Third
Number: Singular
State:
Tense: Perfect
Form: PEAL
Suffix Gender: Feminine
Suffix Person: Third
Suffix Number: Singular
Lexeme Form:
Concordance
† Yukhanan — 1:29, 1:36
† Acts — 8:34
Lexicon
Word: hrm0
Lexeme: rm0
Root: rm0
Word Number: 1246
Meaning: speak
Pronunciation: (Eastern) AaMRaH
(Western) AaMRoH
Part of Speech: Verb
Gender: Masculine
Person: Third
Number: Singular
State:
Tense: Perfect
Form: PEAL
Suffix Gender: Feminine
Suffix Person: Third
Suffix Number: Singular
Lexeme Form:
Concordance
† Yukhanan — 1:29, 1:36
† Acts — 8:34
Lexicon
Word: hrm0
Lexeme: rm0
Root: rm0
Word Number: 1246
Meaning: announce
Pronunciation: (Eastern) AaMRaH
(Western) AaMRoH
Part of Speech: Verb
Gender: Masculine
Person: Third
Number: Singular
State:
Tense: Perfect
Form: PEAL
Suffix Gender: Feminine
Suffix Person: Third
Suffix Number: Singular
Lexeme Form:
Concordance
† Yukhanan — 1:29, 1:36
† Acts — 8:34
Lexicon
Word: hrm0
Lexeme: 0rm0
Root: rm0
Word Number: 1332
Meaning: lamb
Pronunciation: (Eastern) AeMReH
(Western) AeMReH
Part of Speech: Noun
Gender: Masculine
Person:
Number: Singular
State: Emphatic
Tense:
Form:
Suffix Gender: Masculine
Suffix Person: Third
Suffix Number: Singular
Lexeme Form:
Concordance
† Yukhanan — 1:29, 1:36
† Acts — 8:34
Lexicon
Word: hrm0
Lexeme: 0rm0
Root: rm0
Word Number: 1332
Meaning: sheep
Pronunciation: (Eastern) AeMReH
(Western) AeMReH
Part of Speech: Noun
Gender: Masculine
Person:
Number: Singular
State: Emphatic
Tense:
Form:
Suffix Gender: Masculine
Suffix Person: Third
Suffix Number: Singular
Lexeme Form: |
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pvb
Joined: 17 May 2007
Posts: 34
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ghostbusting
Joined: 12 Dec 2008
Posts: 120
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| Posted: Sun Dec 28, 2008 4:15 pm Post subject: |
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| Haik Monsieur wrote: |
| ghostbusting wrote: |
| Nosubmission wrote: |
Still no answer to my question WHO killed Jesus according to the Koran!
I do not want to know who did NOT kill Jesus, but who DID kill Him. LOL |
Nobody killed him. He was rescued. |
Quran just says Jews did not kill Jesus. Quran says Jews did not crucify Jesus.
And none argues otherwise. It was Romans who crucified Jesus. Quran knows Romans (in fact there is a chapter in Quran named Rome) but is mute on what they did to Jesus. All of Quran's acrobatics is focused on what Jews did not. Jews did not kill nor crucified Jesus. That's all.
Read your book in context. At least be honest to do so.
KhaliL |
Of course, the Romans hung him up because the Jews wanted them to.
Both were responsible and equally guilty. Pilate obliged the request of the Jews as alleged by the gospels.
Quran correctly uses the word 'They'. Both parties were responsible for hanging him up the tree.
If you read the gospels, you can hear loud and clear, "Crucify him! Crucify him!"
Were the Romans screaming, hollering and shouting that out? How about you being honest now?
_________________
Ali Sina to me (abridged):"If you don't like someone's tone don't read their comments. I do that and I have kept my peace for seven years."
I like this advice. Ali, it is really working and I am keeping my peace. |
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Nosubmission
Joined: 02 Nov 2008
Posts: 212
Location: Human flesh
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| Posted: Sun Dec 28, 2008 4:44 pm Post subject: |
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| ghostbusting wrote: |
Of course, the Romans hung him up because the Jews wanted them to.
Both were responsible and equally guilty. Pilate obliged the request of the Jews as alleged by the gospels.
Quran correctly uses the word 'They'. Both parties were responsible for hanging him up the tree.
If you read the gospels, you can hear loud and clear, "Crucify him! Crucify him!"
Were the Romans screaming, hollering and shouting that out? How about you being honest now? |
Please first prove from the Koran that the plural pronoun THEY refers to both parties (Jews & Romans), and then keep talking of honesty. Thanks.
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I am choosing not to submit either willingly or reluctantly. Catch me if you can! |
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Haik Monsieur
Joined: 17 Sep 2006
Posts: 2393
Location: FFI
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| Posted: Sun Dec 28, 2008 4:45 pm Post subject: |
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| ghostbusting wrote: |
Of course, the Romans hung him up because the Jews wanted them to.
Both were responsible and equally guilty. Pilate obliged the request of the Jews as alleged by the gospels.
Quran correctly uses the word 'They'. Both parties were responsible for hanging him up the tree.
If you read the gospels, you can hear loud and clear, "Crucify him! Crucify him!"
Were the Romans screaming, hollering and shouting that out? How about you being honest now? |
Quran says JEWS did not kill Jesus, JEWS did not crucify Jesus. My argument ends up there.
Your acrobatics is futile. Quran correctly uses "They" that is true. But who are these they? Read the verses prior to it to get exactly who are these "THEY" Quran refers to. "THEY" are Jews and not Romans. Nowhere in Quran mentions "Romans" doing anything with with Jesus. Quranic verses are meant to refute Jewish claim. That's all.
How about you being honest in reading your book in context and telling the story more honestly?
KhaliL
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pvb
Joined: 17 May 2007
Posts: 34
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| Posted: Mon Dec 29, 2008 2:22 pm Post subject: |
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My belief is that all of us crucified Jesus- it is our fault, or sin.
Look at these verses- Muslims don't even believe in the sacrificail system set up by GOD yet-
037.106
YUSUFALI: For this was obviously a trial-
PICKTHAL: Lo! that verily was a clear test.
SHAKIR: Most surely this is a manifest trial.
037.107
YUSUFALI: And We ransomed him with a momentous sacrifice:
PICKTHAL: Then We ransomed him with a tremendous victim.
SHAKIR: And We ransomed him with a Feat sacrifice.
I have been told that Allah sent the ram as the tremendous, momentous sacrifice! WHAT!?!
We ransomed him with a momentous sacrifice
The only momentous sacrifice ever on the face of the earth was the crucifixion of Jesus!!
Haik do you read arabic?
You stated - "Quranic verses are meant to refute Jewish claim"
Do you mean all verses, or those dealing with Jesus? |
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Ex-muslimah
Joined: 19 Jul 2006
Posts: 909
Location: Scotland somewhere
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| Posted: Mon Dec 29, 2008 4:03 pm Post subject: |
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That Koran text which mentions the messiah (4:157), I swear that looks like it has been uplifted from the bible.
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The Borg is si-fi's Islam. The "Collective" is the Ummah and they assimilate the kaffir.
*http://www.karmanirvana.org.uk/* - For if you are in a forced marriage in the UK |
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