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pvb
Joined: 17 May 2007
Posts: 34
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 Posted: Wed Dec 24, 2008 5:46 pm Post subject: word for word translation of 4:157 |
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and all various meaning of each word. Thank - you!!
Waqawlihim
inna
qatalna
almaseeha -messiah
AAeesa -Jesus
ibna - son of
maryama -Maryama
rasoola -messanger
Allahi - God
wama qataloohu wama salaboohu walakin shubbiha lahum wa-inna allatheena ikhtalafoo feehi lafee shakkin minhu ma lahum bihi min AAilmin illa ittibaAAa alththanni wama qataloohu yaqeenan
004.157
YUSUFALI: That they said (in boast), "We killed Christ Jesus the son of Mary, the Messenger of Allah";- but they killed him not, nor crucified him, but so it was made to appear to them, and those who differ therein are full of doubts, with no (certain) knowledge, but only conjecture to follow, for of a surety they killed him not:-
PICKTHAL: And because of their saying: We slew the Messiah, Jesus son of Mary, Allah's messenger - they slew him not nor crucified him, but it appeared so unto them; and lo! those who disagree concerning it are in doubt thereof; they have no knowledge thereof save pursuit of a conjecture; they slew him not for certain.
SHAKIR: And their saying: Surely we have killed the Messiah, Isa son of Marium, the messenger of Allah; and they did not kill him nor did they crucify him, but it appeared to them so (like Isa) and most surely those who differ therein are only in a doubt about it; they have no knowledge respecting it, but only follow a conjecture, and they killed him not for sure.
004.158
YUSUFALI: Nay, Allah raised him up unto Himself; and Allah is Exalted in Power, Wise;-
PICKTHAL: But Allah took him up unto Himself. Allah was ever Mighty, Wise.
SHAKIR: Nay! Allah took him up to Himself; and Allah is Mighty, Wise.
Actually without even changing the translation the interpretation seems wrong to me!
The Jews didn't Kill Jesus, the Romans did, no Judas, but actually GOD did for it was in His plan for our salvation. In the next verse GOD takes Jesus up to Himself. Which He eventually did!!
Thanks again!! |
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ghostbusting
Joined: 12 Dec 2008
Posts: 120
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| Posted: Thu Dec 25, 2008 8:59 am Post subject: Re: word for word translation of 4:157 |
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| pvb wrote: |
The Jews didn't Kill Jesus, the Romans did, no Judas, but actually GOD did for it was in His plan for our salvation. In the next verse GOD takes Jesus up to Himself. Which He eventually did!!
Thanks again!! |
Neither the Jews killed nor the Romans. The Jews were very sweet to him and loved him. He loved them too. We can see his love for the Jews from the gospels.
So, you are saying that he did not die but was lifted off the cross?
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Ali Sina to me (abridged):"If you don't like someone's tone don't read their comments. I do that and I have kept my peace for seven years."
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Nosubmission
Joined: 02 Nov 2008
Posts: 212
Location: Human flesh
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| Posted: Thu Dec 25, 2008 10:31 am Post subject: Re: word for word translation of 4:157 |
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| ghostbusting wrote: |
| pvb wrote: |
The Jews didn't Kill Jesus, the Romans did, no Judas, but actually GOD did for it was in His plan for our salvation. In the next verse GOD takes Jesus up to Himself. Which He eventually did!!
Thanks again!! |
Neither the Jews killed nor the Romans. The Jews were very sweet to him and loved him. He loved them too. We can see his love for the Jews from the gospels.
So, you are saying that he did not die but was lifted off the cross? |
What is your alternative then? If neither the Romans nor the Jews, who killed Jesus? A ghost man? An animal? A carnivorous plant?
The Koran says that the Jews bragged about crucifying and killing Jesus. The plural personal pronoun in the sentence "They neither killed, nor crucified him" obviously refers to the Jews of Jesus' time.
Please explain what you mean when you say:
a)"The Jews were very sweet to him and loved him". 
b) "We can see his (whose?) love for the Jews from the Gospels." What makes you think that a person's love for others always guarantees the love of others for the same person?
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pvb
Joined: 17 May 2007
Posts: 34
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| Posted: Fri Dec 26, 2008 2:52 pm Post subject: |
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It was all a part of GOD's plan- that is why Jesus came as a gift of grace from GOD.
The Quran is vague in just about everything! LOL! Yes eventually after visiting the soul's in prison Jesus was gathered up= accended to sit at the right hand of GOD. |
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pvb
Joined: 17 May 2007
Posts: 34
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| Posted: Fri Dec 26, 2008 2:54 pm Post subject: |
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| anyone on the translations? |
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AhmedBahgat
Joined: 25 Jan 2006
Posts: 10001
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| Posted: Fri Dec 26, 2008 11:05 pm Post subject: Re: word for word translation of 4:157 |
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I am not sure what you is your message exactly?
you bring a quran verse asking for a word for word translation then you end up your question by saying the the Jews did not kill Jesus
I am not goint to reply to the Quran verse as it seems that you do not know what the hell you are talking about, however I will reply to this line:
| pvb wrote: |
| The Jews didn't Kill Jesus, the Romans did, no Judas, but actually GOD did for it was in His plan for our salvation. In the next verse GOD takes Jesus up to Himself. Which He eventually did!! |
Well, the logical law is simple, if you conspire to kill, then you must be part of the killing, let me show you what some non Muslims say:
Accoridng to the Bible a Jewish mob conspired to keep Jesus imprisoned and ensure his torture and crucifixion, and even as he was led to his death, he is further abused by a Jewish mob.
For Pilate , after being forced by the Jewish mob to sentence Jesus to death, Pilate symbolically washes his hands and pronounces:
I am not responsible for the death of this man! This is your doing. The whole crowd [the Jews] answered back: Let his blood be on our heads and the heads of our children.
(Matthew 27:24-25)
-> See, After the Jews manipulated the Pilate to kill Jesus, THEY ADMITTED THAT THE BLOOD OF JESUS BE UPON THEM: Let his blood be upon us and upon our children,
Now, for Paul, the most important personality in the history of the christianity, makes a special point of blaming the Jews for the death of Jesus:
14: For ye, brethren, became followers of the churches of God which in Judaea are in Christ Jesus: for ye also have suffered like things of your own countrymen, even as they have of the Jews:
15: Who both killed the Lord Jesus, and their own prophets, and have persecuted us; and they please not God, and are contrary to all men:
16: Forbidding us to speak to the Gentiles that they might be saved, to fill up their sins alway: for the wrath is come upon them to the uttermost.
(1 Thessalonians ; 2:14-16)
-> See what Paul suppose to have said in his Bible: Who both killed the Lord Jesus, and their own prophets,, clearly Paul confirmed that the Jews killed Jesus and many other prophets.
Today modern day Jews claim that they cannot be held responsible for the death of jesus because what happened was 2,000 years ago when they were helpless Jews that were under the power of the mighty Roman empire.
Matthew on the other hand tell us that the the jews will do it again (kill the prophets) if given another chance, let's have a look:
And say, If we had been in the days of our fathers, we would not have been partakers with them in the blood of the prophets. Wherefore ye be witnesses unto yourselves, that ye are the children of them which killed the prophets. Fill ye up then the measure of your fathers. Ye serpents, ye generation of vipers, how can ye escape the damnation of hell?
(Matthew 23:30)
-> Simply, the Jews will do it again, Why? Because they are of the same generation - the same race.
Conclusion:
1) The Jews are guilty as charged with the crime of conspiring to kill Jesus
2) This must be added to my slam dunk show, you can watch it in here:
http://www.faithfreedom.org/forum/viewtopic.php?p=1181799#1181799
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pvb
Joined: 17 May 2007
Posts: 34
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| Posted: Fri Dec 26, 2008 11:22 pm Post subject: |
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LOL!! Not quite so fast LOL!!
What about Judas? The Roman soldiers? Each one of us sinners?
Each and everyone of us is guilty of the death of Jesus.
Are you saying that it was not part of GOD's plan of salvation for Jesus to lay His life down for us?
I really don't need any answers from Jew haters. Or those that do not believe that Jesus was crucified for that matter.
LOL! All I need is all the possible meanins for each arabic word. |
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AhmedBahgat
Joined: 25 Jan 2006
Posts: 10001
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| Posted: Fri Dec 26, 2008 11:31 pm Post subject: |
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| pvb wrote: |
LOL!! Not quite so fast LOL!!
What about Judas? The Roman soldiers? Each one of us sinners?
Each and everyone of us is guilty of the death of Jesus.
Are you saying that it was not part of GOD's plan of salvation for Jesus to lay His life down for us?
I really don't need any answers from Jew haters. Or those that do not believe that Jesus was crucified for that matter.
LOL! All I need is all the possible meanins for each arabic word. |
If that is what you want, why you added your useless crap at the end of your comment?
also, I am a not a Jew hater, I love the jews actually more than the christians
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pvb
Joined: 17 May 2007
Posts: 34
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| Posted: Fri Dec 26, 2008 11:48 pm Post subject: |
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LOL!! So what is your story? You the head of this forum?
How do you know you love Jews more then Christians?
What exactly is your definition of useless crap? Has this issue of mis-interpretation for this verse been discussed already? |
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AhmedBahgat
Joined: 25 Jan 2006
Posts: 10001
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| Posted: Fri Dec 26, 2008 11:53 pm Post subject: |
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| pvb wrote: |
| LOL!! So what is your story? You the head of this forum? |
My story is long, you need a lot of time to get it
I do not mind at all if Ali Sina makes me the head of this forum, first thing I will do is to get all the confused goons into order
| pvb wrote: |
| How do you know you love Jews more then Christians? |
Becuase I love the jews more than the chrsitians
what a stupiud question, let me ask you a stupid qestion:
how do you know that your name is pvb?
| pvb wrote: |
| What exactly is your definition of useless crap? Has this issue of mis-interpretation for this verse been discussed already? |
it is really simple, read your thread including the title, then tell us what the hell your crap of last pargaraph suppose to mean?, regardless of its meaning, it has refuyted and slam dunked, the Jews are guilty as charged, this also confirm the Quran verse in which it said the Jews said, we killed Jesus, see what they said above: Let his blood be upon us
that is another slam that will be added later btw
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pvb
Joined: 17 May 2007
Posts: 34
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| Posted: Sat Dec 27, 2008 12:22 am Post subject: |
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Do you wish your Jewish friends Happy Hannukah?
So have you ever had a discussion about the possibility of mis-interpretation for this verse? And possibly many from the Quran? |
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pvb
Joined: 17 May 2007
Posts: 34
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| Posted: Sat Dec 27, 2008 12:46 am Post subject: |
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You there Ahmed?
Have yu ever read the Holy Bible?
Did you know that in the Holy Bible Jesus gives up His soul on the cross?
Matthew 27
50And when Jesus had cried out again in a loud voice, he gave up his spirit.
Luke 23
46Jesus called out with a loud voice, "Father, into your hands I commit my spirit." When he had said this, he breathed his last.
John 19
30When he had received the drink, Jesus said, "It is finished." With that, he bowed his head and gave up his spirit.
If you give up your spirit/soul can you blame the taking of it on another?[/b] |
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Winston
Joined: 26 Jun 2008
Posts: 122
Location: Mecca (top secret)
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| Posted: Sat Dec 27, 2008 12:51 am Post subject: |
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| AhmedBahgat wrote: |
| pvb wrote: |
| LOL!! So what is your story? You the head of this forum? |
My story is long, you need a lot of time to get it
I do not mind at all if Ali Sina makes me the head of this forum, first thing I will do is to get all the confused goons into order
| pvb wrote: |
| How do you know you love Jews more then Christians? |
Becuase I love the jews more than the chrsitians
what a stupiud question, let me ask you a stupid qestion:
how do you know that your name is pvb?
| pvb wrote: |
| What exactly is your definition of useless crap? Has this issue of mis-interpretation for this verse been discussed already? |
it is really simple, read your thread including the title, then tell us what the hell your crap of last pargaraph suppose to mean?, regardless of its meaning, it has refuyted and slam dunked, the Jews are guilty as charged, this also confirm the Quran verse in which it said the Jews said, we killed Jesus, see what they said above: Let his blood be upon us
that is another slam that will be added later btw |
I'm curious about one thing. According to Islams version of history were there any Muslims at this time? I.e. had the former muslims already corrupted their scriptures and become Jews at this point and did they persecute the (Muslim) Jesus as described in the Bible?
Also, because Jesus was a Muslim, did he have many Muslim followers at this time? When did these followers get together and corrupt the Bible...and did they do it with the help of the Jews in order to make both the OT and NT consistent with each other? If so, can I ask you why they did this?
I assume that the conspiracy was grand enough to destroy all traces of there ever being Muslims in that time period...as well as any evidence of the original, uncorrupted, Torah, Injeel?
Can you explain how all this came together because i can't make sense of it and the Islamic scriptures are surprisingly vague about all of this.
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Islamis_Allah_Tashit
Joined: 12 May 2004
Posts: 4384
Location: A Holiday Inn bathroom
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| Posted: Sat Dec 27, 2008 3:32 am Post subject: |
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Wow, look at how stupid this thread has become.
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AhmedBahgat
Joined: 25 Jan 2006
Posts: 10001
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| Posted: Sat Dec 27, 2008 7:54 am Post subject: |
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| pvb wrote: |
| Do you wish your Jewish friends Happy Hannukah? |
Why not
I wish them all the best not just happy hannukah
| pvb wrote: |
| So have you ever had a discussion about the possibility of mis-interpretation for this verse? |
With some confused Kafirs, yes, and I slam dunked all of them
| pvb wrote: |
| And possibly many from the Quran? |
With some confused Kafirs and Muslims, yes, and I slam dunked all of them
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