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Mersk
Joined: 16 Jul 2004
Posts: 5764
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 Posted: Fri Dec 19, 2008 6:17 pm Post subject: |
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| Rat_bytes wrote: |
| If western countries adopted a "shoot to kill" policy in situations like these, the Islamics would see it as a move against them and declare open war. We do not want warfare in our streets, violence only begets violence. |
It must happen ... they, the MAMs, must be made accountable. It's us or they taking the highway.
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MAM = Muslims acting as Muslim Affairs Ministers for Modk. HAM = Last Profit of Islam. |
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odin
Joined: 01 May 2006
Posts: 952
Location: uk
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| Posted: Fri Dec 19, 2008 7:29 pm Post subject: |
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i dont get this
turkey is not a part of europe,it will never be
sweden needs to grow upp
its such a stupid country
_________________
Show me just what Mohammed brought that was new, and there you will find things only evil and inhuman, such as his command to spread by the sword the faith he preached". -Manuel II Palaiologos, Byzantine emperor 1391-1425 |
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Chewchy
Joined: 02 Feb 2008
Posts: 1774
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| Posted: Fri Dec 19, 2008 7:44 pm Post subject: |
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Certainly there are laws already on the books in Sweden to deal with this - civil disruption, etc. However, we will see if Sweden is brave enough to take the necessary action to arrest and prosecute anyone creating mischief and violence.
I say brave enough because there always seems to be a fear of being labeled "racist" or "Islamaphobic". In the end, this fear will continue to cripple the west in doing what it needs to do. |
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odin
Joined: 01 May 2006
Posts: 952
Location: uk
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| Posted: Fri Dec 19, 2008 7:46 pm Post subject: |
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still sweden needs to show some back bone
_________________
Show me just what Mohammed brought that was new, and there you will find things only evil and inhuman, such as his command to spread by the sword the faith he preached". -Manuel II Palaiologos, Byzantine emperor 1391-1425 |
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Salad In
Joined: 03 Dec 2004
Posts: 837
Location: Australia
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| Posted: Fri Dec 19, 2008 8:32 pm Post subject: |
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| Poor me. Here I was thinking there was truth in that saying: "Islam is a religion of peace". Oh well, there's another saying that has no merit these days. |
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Armand777
Joined: 11 Jun 2006
Posts: 384
Location: Karnak
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| Posted: Sat Dec 20, 2008 2:34 am Post subject: |
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yeezevee wrote:
| Quote: |
| (opening thread post) …..If west doesn't educate and integrate THESE ROBOTS…… |
These deranged savages have no intention of integration, and no desire of allegiance to Sweden. The fact that they set up their own enclaves demonstrates this. They are uneducatable. That is why the Ummah sent them there. Their sole intent is the total destruction of the Culture and Societies to which they “emigrate”.
| yeezevee wrote: |
| …… Such riots and Tragedies and prejudices will continue to hit the towns of western countries. |
| Quote: |
| (cited article)…… "There have been fires burning since this afternoon... extensive damage to public property, and... stone-throwing and bomb threats against police."…… |
You speak to these animals in the only language they have demonstrated that they understand, which is violence. If you have a rabid dog roaming the streets, you kill it, pure and simple.
These are acts of sedition, and must be dealt with on a basis of immediate finality. In case above, the rioters should have been dispatched on the spot (no rubber bullets), and the bodies placed on the fires that they started.
Unfortunately the “leadership” of the Civilized world appear to be too stupid to unite and destroy Islamism at its source, once and for all. And if they don’t want to do that, these morons will have to be content to stand there and watch their societies be destroyed by the malignancy that they themselves have admitted and allowed to fester within their own borders.
The following cited from: http://rense.com/general69/westernmuslims.htm
| Quote: |
Western Muslims' Racist Rape Spree
By Sharon Lapkin ~ FrontPageMag.com ~ December 29th, 2005
In Australia, Norway, Sweden and other Western nations, there is a distinct race-based crime in motion being ignored by the diversity police: Islamic men are raping Western women for ethnic reasons. We know this because the rapists have openly declared their sectarian motivations.
When a number of teenage Australian girls were subjected to hours of sexual degradation during a spate of gang rapes in Sydney that occurred between 1998 and 2002, the perpetrators of these assaults framed their rationale in ethnic terms. The young victims were informed that they were "sluts" and "Aussie pigs" while they were being hunted down and abused.
In Australia's New South Wales Supreme Court in December 2005, a visiting Pakistani rapist testified that his victims had no right to say no, because they were not wearing a headscarf.
And earlier this year Australians were outraged when Lebanese Sheik Faiz Mohammed gave a lecture in Sydney where he informed his audience that rape victims had no one to blame but themselves. Women, he said, who wore skimpy clothing, invited men to rape them.
A few months earlier, in Copenhagen, Islamic mufti and scholar, Shahid Mehdi created uproar when ¬ like his peer in Australia ¬ he stated that women who did not wear a headscarf were asking to be raped.
And with haunting synchronicity in 2004, the London Telegraph reported that visiting Egyptian scholar Sheik Yusaf al-Qaradawi claimed female rape victims should be punished if they were dressed immodestly when they were raped. He added, "For her to be absolved from guilt, a raped woman must have shown good conduct."
In Norway and Sweden, journalist Fjordman warns of a rape epidemic. Police Inspector Gunnar Larsen stated that the steady increase of rape-cases and the link to ethnicity are clear, unmistakable trends. Two out of three persecutions for rape in Oslo are immigrants with a non-Western background and 80 percent of the victims are Norwegian women.
In Sweden, according to translator for Jihad Watch, Ali Dashti, "Gang rapes, usually involving Muslim immigrant males and native Swedish girls, have become commonplace." A few weeks ago she said, "Five Kurds brutally raped a 13-year-old Swedish girl."
In France, Samira Bellil broke her silence ¬ after enduring years of repeated gang rapes in one of the Muslim populated public housing projects ¬ and wrote a book, In the hell of the tournantes, that shocked France. Describing how gang rape is rampant in the banlieues, she explained to Time that, "any neighborhood girl who smokes, uses makeup or wears attractive clothes is a whore."
Unfortunately, Western women are not the only victims in this epidemic. In Indonesia, in 1998, human rights groups documented the testimony of over 100 Chinese women who were gang raped during the riots that preceded the fall of President Suharto. Many of them were told: "You must be raped, because you are Chinese and non-Muslim."
Christian Solidarity Worldwide reported that in April 2005, a 9-year-old Pakistani girl was raped, beaten with a cricket bat, hanged upside down from the ceiling, had spoonfuls of chillies poured into her mouth, and repeatedly bashed while handcuffed. Her Muslim neighbours told her they were taking revenge for the American bombing of Iraqi children and informed her they were doing it because she was an "infidel and a Christian."
In Sudan ¬ where Arab Muslims slaughter black Muslim and Christian Sudanese in an ongoing genocide ¬ former Sudanese slave and now a human rights' activist Simon Deng says he witnessed girls and women being raped and that the Arab regime of Khartoum sends its soldiers to the field to rape and murder. In other reports, women who are captured by government forces are asked; "Are you Christian or Muslim?" and those who answer Christian, are gang raped before having their breasts cut off.
This phenomenon of Islamic sexual violence against women should be treated as the urgent, violent, repressive epidemic it is. Instead, journalists, academics, and politicians ignore it, rationalize it, or ostracize those who dare discuss it.
In Australia, when journalist Paul Sheehan reported honestly on the Sydney gang rapes, he was called a racist and accused of stirring up anti-Muslim hatred. And when he reported in his Sydney Morning Herald column that there was a high incidence of crime amongst Sydney's Lebanese community, fellow journalist, David Marr sent him an e-mail stating, "That is a disgraceful column that reflects poorly on us all at the Herald."
Keysar Trad, vice-president of the Australian Lebanese Muslim Association said the gang rapes were a "heinous" crime but complained it was "rather unfair" that the ethnicity of the rapists had been reported.
Journalist Miranda Devine reported during the same rape trials that all reference to ethnicity had been deleted from the victim impact statement because the prosecutors wanted to negotiate a plea bargain.
So when Judge Megan Latham declared, "There is no evidence before me of any racial element in the commission of these offences," everyone believed her. And the court, the politicians and most of the press may as well have raped the girls again.
Retired Australian detective Tim Priest warned in 2004 that the Lebanese gangs, which emerged in Sydney in the 1990s ¬ when the police were asleep ¬ had morphed out of control. "The Lebanese groups," he said, " were ruthless, extremely violent, and they intimidated not only innocent witnesses, but even the police that attempted to arrest them."
Priest describes how in 2001, in a Muslim dominated area of Sydney two policemen stopped a car containing three well-known Middle Eastern men to search for stolen property. As the police carried out their search they were physically threatened and the three men claimed they were going to track them down, kill them and then rape their girlfriends.
According to Priest, it didn't end there. As the Sydney police called for backup the three men used their mobile phones to call their associates, and within minutes, 20 Middle Eastern men arrived on the scene. They punched and pushed the police and damaged state vehicles. The police retreated and the gang followed them to the police station where they intimidated staff, damaged property and held the police station hostage.
Eventually the gang left, the police licked their wounds, and not one of them took action against the Middle Eastern men. Priest claims, "In the minds of the local population, the police are cowards and the message was, 'Lebanese [Muslim gangs] rule the streets.'"
In France, in the banlieues, where gang rape is now known simply as tournantes or 'pass-around,' victims know the police will not protect them. If they complain, Samir Bellil said, they know that they and their families will be threatened.
However, Muslim women in the French ghettos are finally fighting back against gang rape and police non-action. They have begun a movement called, "We're neither whores nor doormats." They are struggling against the intrinsic violence that plagues their neighbourhoods and the culture that condones it.
In most French prosecutions, the Muslim rapists state that they do not believe they have committed a crime. And in a frightening parallel with the gang rapists in Australia, they claim the victim herself is to blame and accuse her of being a "slut" or a "whore."
According to The Guardian, during the recent French riots, a Saudi Prince with shares in News Corporation boasted to a conference in Dubai that he had phoned Rupert Murdoch and complained about Fox News describing the disturbances as "Muslim riots." Within half an hour he said, it was changed to "civil riots."
Swedish translator, Ali Dashti, stated that in Sweden when three men raped a 22-year-old woman recently, they said one word to her. "Whore." Such stories, according to Dashti, are in the Swedish newspapers every week. And, the politically correct "take great care not to mention the ethnic background of the perpetrators."
Sweden's English newspaper The Local reported in July that Malmo police commander Bengt Lindström had been charged with inciting racial hatred. He sent e-mails from his home computer to two city officials. To the head of healthcare, he wrote: "You...treat old Swedes who have worked hard building up the fatherland like parasites and would rather give my taxes to criminals called Mohammed from Rosengärd."
In Malmo, the third largest city in Sweden, the police have admitted, Dashti says, that they no longer control the city. "It is effectively ruled by violent gangs of Muslim immigrants." Ambulance personnel are regularly attacked and spat upon and are now refusing to help until a police escort arrives. The police are too afraid to enter parts of the city without backup.
In early 2005, Norwegian newspapers reported that Oslo had recorded the highest ever number of rape cases in the previous twelve months. However, Fjordman explained, the official statistics contained no data regarding "how immigrants were grossly over represented in rape cases", and the media remain so strangely silent.
Oslo Professor of Anthropology, Unni Wikan, said Norwegian women must take responsibility for the fact that Muslim men find their manner of dress provocative. And since these men believe women are responsible for rape, she stated, the women must adapt to the multicultural society around them.
The BBC pulled a documentary scheduled for screening in 2004, after police in Britain warned it could increase racial tension. "In these exceptional circumstances... Channel 4 as a responsible broadcaster has agreed to the police's request..." The documentary was to show how Pakistani and other Muslim men sexually abused young, white English girls as young as 11.
The number of rapes committed by Muslim men against women in the last decade is so incredibly high that it cannot be viewed as anything other than culturally implicit behaviour. It is overtly reinforced and sanctioned by Islamic religious leaders who blame the victims and excuse the rapists.
In three decades of immigration into Western countries, Islam has caused social upheaval and havoc in every one of its host countries. No other immigration program has encountered the problems of non-assimilation and religious ambiguity.
Everywhere in the world, Muslims are in conflict with their neighbours. And as Mark Steyn recently said, every conflict appears to have originated by someone with the name of Mohammed.
In July 2005, Melbourne Sheik Mohammad Omran told Sixty Minutes that "...we believe we have more rights than you because we choose Australia to be our home and you didn't."
In the same interview visiting Sheik Khalid Yasin warned "There's no such thing as a Muslim having a non-Muslim friend, so a non-Muslim could be your associate but they can't be a friend. They're not your friend because they don't understand your religious principles and they cannot because they don't understand your faith."
Despite being told over and over by Islamic scholars, and witnessing massive influxes of Islamic crime, Western countries continue to believe in the reality of assimilation and moral relativism.
In Australia, Lebanese Christians have assimilated and become a respected part of our community. The Premier of Victoria is a Lebanese Christian as is the Governor Of New South Wales. However, Lebanese Muslims have encountered serious problems because of their refusal to accept our right to live our way of life. Nothing so clearly demonstrates that it is not an issue of race - but of culture. |
The following cited from: http://fjordman.blogspot.com/2005/12/immigrant-rape-wave-in-sweden.html
| Quote: |
Swedish girls Jenny and Linda were on their way to a party on New Year's Eve when they were assaulted, raped and beaten half to death by four Somali immigrants.
Sweden's largest newspaper has presented the perpetrators as "two men from Sweden, one from Finland and one from Somalia", a testimony as to how bad the informal censorship is in stories related to immigration in Sweden. Similar incidents are reported with shocking frequency, to the point where some observers fear that law and order is completely breaking down in the country.
The number of rape charges in Sweden has tripled in just above twenty years. Rape cases involving children under the age of 15 are six - 6 - times as common today as they were a generation ago. Most other kinds of violent crime have rapidly increased, too. Instability is spreading to most urban and suburban areas.
According to a new study from the Crime Prevention Council, Brå, it is four times more likely that a known rapist is born abroad, compared to persons born in Sweden. Resident aliens from Algeria, Libya, Morocco and Tunisia dominate the group of rape suspects…… |
As the un-ending list of documented atrocities perpetrated by adherents of Islam continues to grow, (see also http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/, http://www.jihadwatch.org/) we can deduce that there is no greater level of degenerate barbarity in existence anywhere than Islam. Eventually, the general populaces will, in the interest of their own Societal and Cultural self-defense, rise up and get rid of the PC idiots in power, as well as the Islamist vermin that would destroy them. (as per Islam’s own Dar Al Harb declaration).
And to those in Western governments who think that you will get the Islamist “immigrants” to assimilate, take a good hard look at the above pic, you poor PC fools…..
Armand
_________________
"In every country and in every age, the priest has been hostile to liberty. He is always in alliance with the despot, abetting his abuses in return for protection to his own." ~ Thomas Jefferson, to Horatio G. Spafford, March 17,1814
Last edited by Armand777 on Sat Dec 20, 2008 4:48 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Chewchy
Joined: 02 Feb 2008
Posts: 1774
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| Posted: Sat Dec 20, 2008 3:39 am Post subject: |
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Armand, it looks like Fjordman no longer has that particular entry up; here's a new link to his blog but not to the story mentioned:
http://fjordman.blogspot.com/
BTW, the picture of that woman above is horrifying. I'm glad that they took the picture before cleaning her up because everyone needs to see what animals these individuals are. |
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Shweta
Joined: 01 Nov 2005
Posts: 1407
Location: God's own land.
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| Posted: Sat Dec 20, 2008 6:39 am Post subject: Re: Swedish city hit by MusliM youth riots_Back to Square on |
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| yeezevee wrote: |
If west doesn't educate and integrate THESE ROBOTS.. Such riots and Tragedies and prejudices will continue to hit the towns of western countries..
yeezevee |
Adopt china's policy, when it comes to dealing with Muslim aggression. |
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Cassandra
Joined: 07 Nov 2005
Posts: 4495
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| Posted: Sat Dec 20, 2008 8:43 am Post subject: |
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These Islamist rapist animals are beyond education. How is anyone going to 'educate' them? By telling them that raping women is evil? That wouldn't work and has never worked. Muhammad was a rapist. Muslims have no problems with rape so long as it is they who are doing the raping.
Appeasement never works. Particularly with Muslims. Things will get even more out of hand because these animals will always push the boundaries. It was ALWAYS the Muslims who do these sorts of things when they voluntarily immigrated to Western countries. They hold Westerners and Western culture/societal values in contempt, preferring the barbaric Islamic culture.
The only way is to set an example - we did that with the evil Muslim gang-rapists in Sydney. That is how we 'educate' the Muslims. By sending them to jail. |
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Chewchy
Joined: 02 Feb 2008
Posts: 1774
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| Posted: Sat Dec 20, 2008 9:07 am Post subject: |
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| Cassandra wrote: |
These Islamist rapist animals are beyond education. How is anyone going to 'educate' them? By telling them that raping women is evil? That wouldn't work and has never worked. Muhammad was a rapist. Muslims have no problems with rape so long as it is they who are doing the raping.
Appeasement never works. Particularly with Muslims. Things will get even more out of hand because these animals will always push the boundaries. It was ALWAYS the Muslims who do these sorts of things when they voluntarily immigrated to Western countries. They hold Westerners and Western culture/societal values in contempt, preferring the barbaric Islamic culture.
The only way is to set an example - we did that with the evil Muslim gang-rapists in Sydney. That is how we 'educate' the Muslims. By sending them to jail. |
Cassandra, your comments reminded me very much of an interview I read from FrontPage online.
http://www.frontpagemag.com/Articles/Read.aspx?GUID=E93CD8A1-6AB7-4D87-9F3F-873D6E275867
| Quote: |
There are an increasing number of Islamic schools in western countries, this is another way to brainwash children at a very early age and isolate them from the mainstream society by implying that We are Muslims, they are Christians; we are different. They eat pig, we don’t; we are different, by forcing girls to wear hijab sends a clear message: we are sacred, they are not, and they are whorelike.
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Armand777
Joined: 11 Jun 2006
Posts: 384
Location: Karnak
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| Posted: Sat Dec 20, 2008 4:51 pm Post subject: |
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| Chewchy wrote: |
Armand, it looks like Fjordman no longer has that particular entry up; here's a new link to his blog but not to the story mentioned:
http://fjordman.blogspot.com/
BTW, the picture of that woman above is horrifying. I'm glad that they took the picture before cleaning her up because everyone needs to see what animals these individuals are. |
Chewchy, I have repaired the link url in my above post, and it now appears to be operating correctly. Thank you for pointing it out. My apologies to all for the error.
Best regards,
Armand
_________________
"In every country and in every age, the priest has been hostile to liberty. He is always in alliance with the despot, abetting his abuses in return for protection to his own." ~ Thomas Jefferson, to Horatio G. Spafford, March 17,1814 |
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passerby
Joined: 22 May 2006
Posts: 1767
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| Posted: Sat Dec 20, 2008 5:01 pm Post subject: |
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| Cassandra wrote: |
The only way is to set an example - we did that with the evil Muslim gang-rapists in Sydney. That is how we 'educate' the Muslims. By sending them to jail. |
The best way is to castrate them. This will put more fear into them anytime. 
Last edited by passerby on Sat Dec 20, 2008 9:18 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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anna
Joined: 29 Dec 2006
Posts: 816
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| Posted: Sat Dec 20, 2008 5:34 pm Post subject: |
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Only Europeans governments are to blame as they (!) should néver éver have allowed 'muslims' into Europe.
Islam and The West = 'the twain shall néver meet'.
which our European govenrments should have know.
I therefore spit my disgust on all European governments who allowed Islam's Toyan Horse to enter freely into Europe - to undermine the Europe - at the peril of Europeans. |
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Rat_bytes
Joined: 22 Apr 2008
Posts: 539
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| Posted: Sun Dec 21, 2008 4:10 am Post subject: |
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| charleslemartel wrote: |
Pardon me for butting in.
| Rat_bytes wrote: |
It's less about educating those people and more about educating the non-muslim population and those Muslims who might be sitting on the fence. |
I agree with you here.
| Rat_bytes wrote: |
| If my idea is implemented, all Islamic influence in the country would be discontinued except for a heavily regulated government-run mosque association. |
The moment there are attempts to regulate, there will be violence from Muslims. How do you propose to deal with that violence?
| Rat_bytes wrote: |
| There would be heavy scrutiny that all Islamic elements in the country would undergo, and nothing that was deemed to incite violence or hatred would be allowed past the borders. |
That would mean Quran will have to be banned. That would lead to a lot of violence from Muslims. How do you propose to deal with that violence?
| Rat_bytes wrote: |
| This is exactly what I am talking about - people are unwilling to utilize their freedom of speech because they are afraid of what the Muslims will do. It hasn't gotten to the point where people have realized that this is a permanent threat to their way of life that will not go away. They're still under the impression that if we're nice to the Muslims and avoid offending them, they'll decide to leave our culture alone. Hopefully this attitude will be eliminated as the problem worsens. |
Do you mean "as the violence increases"?
When people are "no longer under the impression that if we're nice to the Muslims and avoid offending them, they'll decide to leave our culture alone", there will be violence from both the sides as in a civil war. I am afraid of exactly such a scenario. |
We deal with the violence the same way the Israelis do - by cleaning up and continuing as it never happened, but with one big difference. As the violence gets worse, so does our mocking of their culture. We can use their own violence against them, by using it as evidence that other countries need to control the Islamic threat. What will the other western countries in the world think when they see one that isn't afraid of Muslims and their constant threats and intimidatory tactics?
I'm not saying take a completely non-violent approach mind - we have laws that are perfectly adequate to deal with rioters and hatemongers, they just aren't being followed because people would rather appease Muslims rather than take action against them. As we saw in the London protests where Muslims were holding up hate-filled placards and throwing things at police, nobody was arrested and the police were wetting their pants.
How do you think a squadron of riot police with beanbag guns, tear gas, and full Kevlar armour would fare against a bunch of uneducated, untrained, under equipped Muslim foot soldiers? Why haven't we been bringing the riot gear out more often? Because Muslim leaders disapprove and threaten "repercussions", that's why.
| charleslemartel wrote: |
| Quote: |
| Unfortunately what you describe is the inevitable outcome of Islam in Britain regardless of the measures that are taken against it. No matter what we do, Muslim violence will increase. Is the answer to begin killing the simple, ignorant young footsoldiers that are brainwashed into their actions by older Muslims? I think that would make the problem immeasurably worse. The problem we are facing is not humans themselves, but an ideology created by humans that has been allowed to take over. We must focus our attack on the ideology instead of falling into the trap of primarily attacking its adherents. |
"We", I mean those who can focus their attack on the ideology, are already doing that. The ideology we are talking about is clearly an idiotology. It has survived so long only because of those foot soldiers who have been successfully eliminating the attacking ideologues. The wars are declared by the rulers, but the actual killings are done by foot soldiers only. To neutralize the rulers, foot soldiers must be dealt with successfully first. And remember, foot soldiers are bound by the fighting orders only and not by the notions of right or wrong. The US army was not supposed to bother if there actually were WMD in Iraq or not.
This is not to say that I am supporting violence as some preemptive measure. It is only that to me it seems inevitable. |
Oh, of course it's inevitable. The more Muslims that move into a country, the higher the rate of crime, particularly violent and sexual crime.
But you don't win a war by killing all the enemy solders, do you? Sun Tsu said that the greatest military tactitian can win a war without violence simply by exploiting his enemy's mistakes and weaknesses. Weaknesses? Well, we know for certain that they have more than we do, we aren't bound by the nonsensical rules of their Quran, for one. Mistakes? They make more than we do because they are arrogant and believe that god is on their side. No matter how inept the west is, the Muslims are many times more inept.
And again, we haven't been using their #1 weakness against them yet, their devotion to their Quran. We could create embargos on Halal meat, the more Muslim violence that is committed the more Halal slaughterhouses we shut down, or the more Muslim schools we demolish, or the more mosques we recommission. We are forgetting that we are in total control of our countries and the Muslims are at our mercy, we are not at theirs. All we must do in retaliation is make it very difficult to be Muslim in our countries.
| charleslemartel wrote: |
| Quote: |
| If the mocking and scrutiny was doubled in the face of Islamic intimidation, the Muslim bullies would be shown that the British are not afraid. |
That is only a rhetoric. I am all for mocking and scrutiny, but the moment I think that it may lead to loss of my life, I would stfu; would you not? |
Salman Rushdie hasn't STFU. The council of ex-muslims hasn't STFU. Benazzir Bhutto didn't STFU until they killed her. Wafa Sultan hasn't STFU. Ali Sina doesn't STFU.
With the violence increasing, it has to peak some time. We can't just GIVE them our freedom of speech on a platter, this indelible right that our ancestors fought for hundreds of years to bring to us. People don't seem to understand just how much our freedom of speech is at risk here, and the more we don't use it, the more it will atrophy.
| charleslemartel wrote: |
| Quote: |
| Look at Israel - they have rockets exploding in their streets almost every week. Despite this, they remain democratic, defiant, and unafraid. When a bomb explodes they clean it up and continue as if nothing happened, showing that they will not be cowed or intimidated by violence. |
And look at the result; the rockets continue to explode in their street. The rockets let up only when Israeli army marches in the palestinian area and returns the favor in a stronger way. Then Hamas and Fateh start calling for ceasefire and peace. |
No, the governments of the countries they invaded call for ceasefire and peace, Hamas and Hezbollah just jump up and down screaming "victory" after the Israelis get sick of kicking their asses and leave. The rockets would come whatever they did - seek peace, invade, it's all the same to these Muslim organizations. What they DON'T do is act all cowed and scared, and give in to every stupid Muslim demand that's made on them.
I just don't believe that the fence-sitters don't exist. Just like the apostates who've shared their stories on this forum, there are probably tens of thousands of people who want to leave or at least reform Islam but aren't able to because of the fundies. Restrict the fundies' power or get rid of them completely, and the fence-sitters will be able to be heard.
| charleslemartel wrote: |
| I am sorry but you are only half right. There are many fronts in this war and the enemy must be fought on all the fronts. If we attack their dignity and laugh at them openly, we would be killed. Want to try to prove otherwise? |
We would be killed because our governments aren't doing enough to protect freedom of speech. Again, I'm not saying that we shouldn't defend ourselves against those with weapons - by all means kill those who rampage around with guns and bombs, my argument was centered around not killing the young boys who riot and burn cars. Those are the ones who would also be susceptible to the mass mocking, because as we all know young men like to be seen as wise and brave, not cowardly and ignorant. At that impressionable age we are able to affect them as much as the Mullahs are.
| charleslemartel wrote: |
| Quote: |
| The concept of loathing unbelievers is hardly exclusive to Islam. It's yet another reason I want to attack the belief itself, because without destroying the roots of the meme the conflict will never end. |
But the concept of killing unbelievers is exclusive to Islam in the present. As I said, the war must be fought on all the fronts. Attacking the belief itself is not going to work as an only measure. I remember Ahmed assuring me that there is a verse in Quran which says that Mecca will always be protected and kafirs will not be able to control it. I asked him to show me the verse but he could not at that time and promised me that he will when he finds it. Now, if his claim is true, go and annex Mecca. That will be a real attack on his belief. |
We already do kill those who try to kill us, but one thing we cannot do is turn our streets into war zones, because that is where the Muslim militant feels most comfortable. If we attack the aggressors in our streets, the battle zone will only increase in size and swallow up those in its path, not to mention making them irreversibly hostile places.
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| Sum wrote: |
Hello Rat_bytes
I agree with you about teaching the non-muslims about the danger of Islam but how do you go about it? The various media will not get involved. The government will not get involved. This is the problem. It is all about reaching the public at large but we are thwarted at every turn. |
I can guarantee that when the time comes, they'd be more open to a campaign of mass disrespect rather than shooting young rioters on sight. We are thwarted at every turn because people aren't ready to wake up to the threat yet. Unfortunately we will have to wait for a few more western landmarks to be bombed before we properly address Islam, but as Muslim violence is on the increase that probably isn't too far in the future.
| Sum wrote: |
Your quote -
Is the answer to begin killing the simple, ignorant young footsoldiers that are brainwashed into their actions by older Muslims? I think that would make the problem immeasurably worse. The problem we are facing is not humans themselves, but an ideology created by humans that has been allowed to take over. We must focus our attack on the ideology instead of falling into the trap of primarily attacking its adherents.
I regard muslims as like a developing cancer. If you take the example of normal healthy lungs being subjected to years of cigarette smoke, cellular changes start to occur. The change is from normal into pre-cancerous cells. If the smoking continues these pre-cancerous cells become fully malignant. Once fully malignant there is no turning back. You can not take pity on them because they belong to you as they can not change back - it is irreversible. You can not regard them as valuable own grown body cells any more - they must be removed or you will die.
The pre-cancerous cells could be given the optimum conditions to revert back to healthy cells but if they do not then these must be removed as well. |
I disagree because unlike cancer cells, "black-cell" fundamentalist Muslims have been shown to deconvert (not often, I'll give you that, but it's still very possible). I direct you to the subsections in this forum that are dedicated to ex-Muslims - quite a few of those people were crazy-religious, but they managed to see the truth. Perhaps we need to look at the cause of a lot of these deconversions and then implement them on a wider scale in our societies.
| Sum wrote: |
| Some so called moderate muslims may be described as pre-cancerous and given a chance. The full true muslims are the malignant cells that want to have total control until you are eliminated. |
We cannot kill or imprison people for their beliefs alone. Deportation maybe, but killing them makes us as bad as them. If we turn into monsters too, what exactly are we fighting for? We may as well just let them take over, because at the end of it there wouldn't be much difference between us and them.
| Sum wrote: |
| In this analogy, which I think is a fair one, it is clear what to do. The cancer cells must be met head on and "treated". Do not forget that the USA is only a few years behind Britain. I hope that the USA is taking note of what is happening in Britain and learns. |
What exactly do you mean by "treatment", and how would this "treatment" apply to someone who spews hatred but has never been involved in any violence? Also, what do we do about the REAL way they take over, by breeding more than we do?
The USA is nowhere near Britain's problems at the moment because their culture is more xenophobic and less PC, same with Australia. The Brits appear to be compensating for the period of time in which their ancestors tried to take over the world, and they are eagerly throwing away their own culture in the process. There are just too many devout Christians and conservatives in America for it to get to the stage that Britain is now.
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The world holds two classes of men - intelligent men without religion, and religious men without intelligence. - Abu’l‐Ala al Ma’arri |
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peoshi
Joined: 17 Nov 2006
Posts: 1057
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| Posted: Sun Dec 21, 2008 6:28 am Post subject: |
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| Rat_bytes wrote: |
| But you don't win a war by killing all the enemy solders, do you? |
Yeah... you do, if there are no "enemy soldiers", there is no war!
| Quote: |
| If we attack the aggressors in our streets, the battle zone will only increase in size and swallow up those in its path, not to mention making them irreversibly hostile places. |
And if the "aggressors" are attacking "you" in your streets, then what?
Move?
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Principles do not work against people who have none! |
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