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Haik Monsieur
Joined: 17 Sep 2006
Posts: 2393
Location: FFI
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 Posted: Tue Dec 16, 2008 7:15 pm Post subject: |
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| Hamad Al-Hasan wrote: |
| Haik Monsieur wrote: |
ixolite, sorry for intruding.
| Hamad Al-Hassan wrote: |
| Wrong comparison. Hamza is the uncle of the prophet, there is a blood relationship between them unlike Abu bakir who hadn't. |
It is the right comparison because in Islam uncle's daughter is halal for nephew to marry. Muhammad could have married Hamza's daughter but he turned down the request for obvious reasons.
Will you please stop lying at least? So far all your lies have been exposed. Do you think you will have a chance here with your lies?
KhaliL |
The comparison was on the blood relation and I responded in that regard.
Hamza was ALSO the prophet's foster brother. The prophet (pbuh) had a foster sister too (Shaima). In islam you cannot marry your foster sister, or her daughters. Similarly, you cannot marry your foster brother's daughters.
It is not my fault if you were ignorant of that fact. So before judging poeple, give them a chance to clarify their claims.
I will answer your post later as I'm busy at the moment. |
Easy my busy Muslim, easy…
Hamza was considered as Muhammad’s foster brother just because they both had been fostered by the same woman. According to Muhammad’s version, foster relationship which prohibits marriage occurs if both guys are suckled by the same woman.
Now, show me from your sources Thuwaiba (the freed slave woman of Abu Lahab who fostered both Hamza and Muhammad) had suckled Hamza. Do not bring me Muhammad’s words which you can find in Sahih Muslim. Bring it as coming through the mouth of any other person than Muhammad. "The dog can not have its tail as witness." So, go through your sources and come back.
Secondly, it is from Muhammad’s mouth (and for the first time) came out this anomalistic excuse of Hamza being his foster brother thus, his daughter is unlawful for HIM. Nowhere in Ibn Ishaq or hadiths it is mentioned Hamza had such a relationship with Muhammad which prohibits the latter from marrying Hamza’s daughter.
It is mentioned in Ibn Hisham’s notes that Hamza and Muhammad were foster brothers. We have no disagreemtns on this because as it said earlier they both had been under the same woman's custody. But the question you want to answer is, where did it say Hamza was Muhammad’s foster brother through suckling. Once again, Muhammad’s words which are only considered to be excuses are not accepted in this case. We need it to hear from an external source. There are many hadiths in which Muhammad’s followers are talking sometimes freely or sometimes on behalf of Muhammad. You may bring any of those words.
Finally, it was all Muhammad’s own made up excuses. The guy who stipulated a time limit to marry captives broke it for marrying Safiyya the daughter of Huayy. So, it was all with Muhammad to break or establish norms. He broke his own words in the case of Safiyya. You can not deny it because it is well documented in your sources.
So, I can call you a liar and ignorant too now. Is it okay with you or?
Just waiting
KhaliL
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Last edited by Haik Monsieur on Tue Dec 16, 2008 7:25 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Mersk
Joined: 16 Jul 2004
Posts: 5764
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| Posted: Tue Dec 16, 2008 7:22 pm Post subject: |
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| sum wrote: |
Hello Hamad Al_Hasan
Your quote -
I say it depends on the culture, physical & mental maturity of females.
This was your response to whether Muhammad`s example of having sex with his 9yr old wife was an example that could be followed to this day by muslims.
Assuming that the culture permits sex with a 9yr old wife would you think that it is acceptable or not?
How do you assess the physical maturity of a 9yr old girl?
sum |
HAMAD,
| Quote: |
| Dr Yaacob, who is also Minister for the Environment and Water Resources, noted that some religious teachers were concerned that the change in age would restrict Muslim rights, as Islam allowed marriage on reaching puberty. |
Source
1. What do you think about physical maturity of these Muslims in SE Asia to handle sex?
2. And do you think that the Muslim Affairs Minister is being anti -Islamic for passing a legislation which goes again the practice of allowing Muslims marrying girls as young as 9 years old.
3. Although he may have passed a legislation to raise the marriage age he did not exactly outlaw or should Muslims pass a legislation that forbid sex with 10 years old, making it unlawful completely for modern Muslims.
3. Sum, going by what is being reported above, sleeping with 10 years old is still permissible in Islam and is not dependent of the maturity of present day Muslims.
4 .. HAMAD. The Muslims there would like to hear your opinion.
_________________
MAM = Muslims acting as Muslim Affairs Ministers for Modk. HAM = Last Profit of Islam. |
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sword_of_truth
Joined: 12 Oct 2008
Posts: 255
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| Posted: Tue Dec 16, 2008 9:27 pm Post subject: |
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sword_of_truth wrote:
http://www.essortment.com/all/teenpregnancyh_ryot.htm
That website is not an authentic source. Kindly review its disclaimer at the end of the page. The following is a part of it:
Quote:
We are only publishers of this material, not authors. Information may have errors or be outdated. |
Ah, but this puts you in a very very difficult position. You are now clearly gambling on the possibility that these medical risks are false. I don't know about the particular problems listed there, but, it just so happens that there are some very well established and well-documented risks associated with early pregnancy.
Want more?
Premature birth
A full-term pregnancy lasts 40 weeks. Having a premature baby, or "preemie," means delivering before 37 weeks. In some cases, premature labor that begins too early in pregnancy can be stopped by medications and bedrest. Other times, the baby has to be delivered early for the health of the mother or infant. The earlier a baby is born, the more risk there is of respiratory, digestive, vision, cognitive, and other problems.
Low-birth-weight baby
Teens are at higher risk of having low-birth-weight babies. Premature babies are more likely to weigh less than they should. In part, that’s because they've had less time in the womb to grow. A low-birth-weight baby weighs only 3.3 to 5.5 pounds (1,500 to 2,500 grams). A very-low-birth-weight baby weighs less than 3.3 pounds. Babies that small may need to be put on a ventilator in a hospital's neonatal care unit for help with breathing after birth.
http://www.webmd.com/baby/guide/teen-pregnancy-medical-risks-and-realities?page=2
There's more where that came from, too.
| Quote: |
Quote:
Because those cultures are ignorant.
Again, that is only your opinion, judging from today's western standards. These standards do no apply everywhere. |
No, that is not just my opinion. It is an objectively verifiable medical fact, unless you just don't care about the health risks to babies and mothers.
| Quote: |
Quote:
Do you think if you make the excuse outrageous enough, we will believe it?
Ha, I believe Sina said something like that . Anyways, I have a questions for you and for everybody else.
1- Are you certain 100% that a 9-year-old nowadays is exactly the same (mentally and physically) as a 9-year-old 1400 years ago ? |
Yes. DNA would be virtually the same. Conditions only would be different. Haik already showed that the girls were malnurished, hence likely to be less mature. Finally, we are talking about 9 years old. That is WAY too young, not just a little bit too young. Furthermore, you have no evidence that they were different.
Finally, this is irrelevant because we have already established that the crime was not pedophelia, but setting a bad example.
| Quote: |
| 2- If a girl cannot physically bear a child and give birth to it, why does her body produce eggs at the ages of 9, 10, or 11? (Vegetarians say that eating meat is forbidden, if this was the case, how come humans have got teeth that are able to cut it and eat it? If we are not supposed to eat meat, how come humans have Enzemes in their bodies that are able to digest meat? I'm using the same logic here) |
A mistake of evolution. This is actually evidence of poor design if it is the work of a God. The fact is that medical studies show the risks. You are not using the same logic because there are studies that show risks of lower birthweight and higher risk of premature birth.
Using your same logic, incest should be perfectly fine. And in fact, Islam does allow incest between cousins. Only perverts are attracted to 9 year olds, so the same thing that prevents incest prevents pedophelia.
| Quote: |
Quote:
In her own defense because of her ignorance. Why do you prefer the will of a 6-9 year old girl to her best interest? Aren't children supposed to obey their parents in Islam? Isn't there a reason for that? Why, then, do YOU override their will?
That is what we, programmers, call an infinite loop. Again. How did you know that we she was ignorant? You are judging and comparing her with childs of her age now!! That is absolutely illogical. The maturity level of 9-year-olds back then was much higher than now. You can see this clearly by comparing kids of this age and kids of your grandparent's. Osama bin Zaid was 18 years old when the prophet (pbuh) gave him the responsibility of leading an ARMY! Evidently, children of this age are much different, and therefore, no one can call them ignorants and unable to make such decisions. During Ghazwat Badr, the ones who killed Abu Jahl were a couple of teenagers! One is 13 years old and the other was 14 !!! |
You completely missed the point. Aisha could not possibly be aware of modern medical studies showing that babies born in early pregnancies have a risk of lower birthweight or premature birth. Among other things.
You are skating on the very thin ice that I am not a doctor, so it is hard for me to find the most damning information about his.
| Quote: |
Quote:
Are you just saying that or do you have evidence?
Dude, I'm an arab, do you know our traditions better than us? It was a common practice. No body has ever objected early marriages back then; having no documented complaints regarding this matter just proves it. |
Dude, I'm partly an arab, too. It's not your tradition, it's your ancestor's tradition. As I said, it's unimportant to the argument. But what I would like to see is some kind of historical references that demonstrate conclusively that there this kind of thing predates Islam.
This is not to refute your argument. I just question how well-established this point is. |
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sword_of_truth
Joined: 12 Oct 2008
Posts: 255
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yeezevee
Joined: 17 Feb 2004
Posts: 17109
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| Posted: Wed Dec 17, 2008 12:32 am Post subject: |
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The prophet (pbuh) had a foster sister too (Shaima). In islam you cannot marry your foster sister, or her daughters. Similarly, you cannot marry your foster brother's daughters.
It is not my fault if you were ignorant of that fact. So before judging poeple, give them a chance to clarify their claims... Says Hamad Al-Hasan |
Well that is a good point dear Hamad Al-Hasan., So you thin EVERY WORD OF Q'URAN from Allah.. good., Being An Arab., growing and going to school in Arabia you do write English very well dear Hasan., Any way let me add this marriage rules of Islam in to the thread
| Quote: |
Prohibited Marriage Partners
Under the Shari'ah, marriages between men and women standing in a certain relationship to one another are prohibited. These prohibited degrees are either of a permanent nature or a temporary. The permanently prohibited degrees of marriage are laid down in the Holy Qur'an :
| Quote: |
| And marry not those women whom your fathers married, except what has already happened (of that nature) in the past. Lo! it was ever lewdness and abomination, and an evil way. Forbidden unto you are your mothers and your daughters, and your sisters and your father's sisters and your mother's sisters, and your brother's daughters and your sister's daughters, and your foster-mothers and your foster-sisters, and your mothers-in-law and your step-daughters who are under your mother-in-law and your step-daughters who are under your protection (born) of your women unto whom you have gone into -- but if you have not gone into them, then it is no sin for you (to marry their daughters) -- and the wives of your sons from your own loins, and that you should have two sisters together, except what has already happened (of that nature) in the past. Allah is ever-Forgiving, Merciful. (4:22 - 24) |
From the above verses, it is clear that a Muslim must never marry the following:
1. His mother
2. His step-mother (this practice continues in Yoruba land in Nigeria, where in some cases the eldest son inherits the youngest wife of his father)
3. His grandmother (including father's and mother's mothers and all preceding mothers e.g. great grandmothers )
4. His daughter (including granddaughters and beyond )
5. His sister (whether full, consanguine or uterine)
6. His father's sisters (including paternal grandfather's sisters)
7. His mother's sisters (including maternal grandmother's sisters)
8. His brother's daughters
9. His foster mother
10. His foster mother's sister
11. His sister's daughter
12. His foster sister
13. His wife's mother
14. His step-daughter (i.e. a daughter by a former husband of a woman he has married if the marriage has been consummated. However, if such a marriage was not consummated, there is no prohibition)
15. His real son's wife |
with best
yeezevee |
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Cassandra
Joined: 07 Nov 2005
Posts: 4495
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| Posted: Wed Dec 17, 2008 12:24 pm Post subject: |
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| Hamad al-Hasan wrote: |
| Quote: |
| In Europe and America, and probably in other cultures, the average age at which a girl first menstruates has gradually declined in recent historical times, the possible reasons being better nutrition and health (but see below). The age seems to have leveled off in America at the end of the 20th century, although the first appearance of other signs of sexual maturity, such as breasts and pubic hair, is still declining, possibly as a result of obesity and estrogen in the environment - for example, from discarded birth control pills. |
That just proves my point that it was different back then. Thank you! |
Can't you read? The trend is AGAINST you. It doesn't prove your point. It DISPROVES you.
Things were different in old days - because girls matured LATER, not EARLIER, especially in less affluent, less modern societies like the barbaric seventh century Arabia.
PS: does it bother you that Aisha was NOT 'mature' when she was nine? It is a matter of record that she had not reached puberty until much later.
Last edited by Cassandra on Wed Dec 17, 2008 12:36 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Hamad Al-Hasan
Joined: 15 Dec 2008
Posts: 81
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| Posted: Wed Dec 17, 2008 12:28 pm Post subject: |
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| Haik Monsieur wrote: |
Easy my busy Muslim, easy…
Hamza was considered as Muhammad’s foster brother just because they both had been fostered by the same woman. According to Muhammad’s version, foster relationship which prohibits marriage occurs if both guys are suckled by the same woman.
Now, show me from your sources Thuwaiba (the freed slave woman of Abu Lahab who fostered both Hamza and Muhammad) had suckled Hamza. Do not bring me Muhammad’s words which you can find in Sahih Muslim. Bring it as coming through the mouth of any other person than Muhammad. "The dog can not have its tail as witness." So, go through your sources and come back.
Secondly, it is from Muhammad’s mouth (and for the first time) came out this anomalistic excuse of Hamza being his foster brother thus, his daughter is unlawful for HIM. Nowhere in Ibn Ishaq or hadiths it is mentioned Hamza had such a relationship with Muhammad which prohibits the latter from marrying Hamza’s daughter.
It is mentioned in Ibn Hisham’s notes that Hamza and Muhammad were foster brothers. We have no disagreemtns on this because as it said earlier they both had been under the same woman's custody. But the question you want to answer is, where did it say Hamza was Muhammad’s foster brother through suckling. Once again, Muhammad’s words which are only considered to be excuses are not accepted in this case. We need it to hear from an external source. There are many hadiths in which Muhammad’s followers are talking sometimes freely or sometimes on behalf of Muhammad. You may bring any of those words.
Finally, it was all Muhammad’s own made up excuses. The guy who stipulated a time limit to marry captives broke it for marrying Safiyya the daughter of Huayy. So, it was all with Muhammad to break or establish norms. He broke his own words in the case of Safiyya. You can not deny it because it is well documented in your sources.
So, I can call you a liar and ignorant too now. Is it okay with you or?
Just waiting
KhaliL |
Before even attempting to answer that, allow me first to know your opinion on Shaima, the foster sister of the prophet (pbuh).
Do you agree that she (Shaima) is the foster sister of the prophet Muhammed (pbuh) ? Do you accept that fact with no doubts? |
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Haik Monsieur
Joined: 17 Sep 2006
Posts: 2393
Location: FFI
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| Posted: Wed Dec 17, 2008 12:31 pm Post subject: |
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| Hamad Al-Hasan wrote: |
Before even attempting to answer that, allow me first to know your opinion on Shaima, the foster sister of the prophet (pbuh).
Do you agree that she (Shaima) is the foster sister of the prophet Muhammed (pbuh) ? Do you accept that fact with no doubts? |
Hamad Al,
I am afraid you have to attempt to answer because nowadays, I have stopped speaking of Shaima.
Refute what is presented and reserve red herrings for yourself. Got any idea of logical fallacies?
Regards
KhaliL
_________________
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Hamad Al-Hasan
Joined: 15 Dec 2008
Posts: 81
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| Posted: Wed Dec 17, 2008 12:34 pm Post subject: |
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Dear sum,
| sum wrote: |
1- How do you assess the physical maturity of a 9yr old girl?
2- Assuming that the culture permits sex with a 9yr old wife would you think that it is acceptable or not?
|
1- If she reached puberty + her body has developed enough to bear a child.
2- If the culture's traditions include preparing the young for responsibilities of marriage and looking after their household.
So if (1) & (2) are satisfied, then marrying a 9-year-old in that context is OK with me. |
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Hamad Al-Hasan
Joined: 15 Dec 2008
Posts: 81
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| Posted: Wed Dec 17, 2008 12:36 pm Post subject: |
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| Haik Monsieur wrote: |
| Hamad Al-Hasan wrote: |
Before even attempting to answer that, allow me first to know your opinion on Shaima, the foster sister of the prophet (pbuh).
Do you agree that she (Shaima) is the foster sister of the prophet Muhammed (pbuh) ? Do you accept that fact with no doubts? |
Hamad Al,
I am afraid you have to attempt to answer because nowadays, I have stopped speaking of Shaima.
Refute what is presented and reserve red herrings for yourself. Got any idea of logical fallacies?
Regards
KhaliL |
Kindly answer my question if you want me to answer yours. This is not a personal question so that you appologize from answering it.
If you don't, then our discussion stops here. |
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Cassandra
Joined: 07 Nov 2005
Posts: 4495
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| Posted: Wed Dec 17, 2008 12:37 pm Post subject: |
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| Hamad Al-Hasan wrote: |
Dear sum,
| sum wrote: |
1- How do you assess the physical maturity of a 9yr old girl?
2- Assuming that the culture permits sex with a 9yr old wife would you think that it is acceptable or not?
|
1- If she reached puberty + her body has developed enough to bear a child.
2- If the culture's traditions include preparing the young for responsibilities of marriage and looking after their household.
So if (1) & (2) are satisfied, then marrying a 9-year-old in that context is OK with me. |
Have you proof that Aisha had reached puberty when she was nine?
Let me tell you something a woman would know: a girl of nine, even if she was undergoing precocious puberty, is in no way physically capable of child-bearing. The dangers of vaginal fistula is very real. Child bearing by young girls has a very high chance of physically damaging the girl. It takes YEARS for a girl to become physically and mentally mature after she begins to menstruate. YEARS. |
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Haik Monsieur
Joined: 17 Sep 2006
Posts: 2393
Location: FFI
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| Posted: Wed Dec 17, 2008 12:56 pm Post subject: |
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| Hamad Al-Hasan wrote: |
Kindly answer my question if you want me to answer yours. This is not a personal question so that you appologize from answering it.
If you don't, then our discussion stops here. |
Sorry man. I am not here to answer your questionnaire at all. I asked questions first. So, your prerequisite is nonsensical and way short to veil your cowardice to enter the discussion. Anyway, your tactic of finding an excuse for evading me does not surprise at all. Many before you did so on bizarre pretexts. (You are not the first Muslim I engage, you are not even the first Arab Muslim I debated.) After all, ex-Muslims are a bit hot for you Muslims to get along. 
Tell me what makes you bring the red herring Shaima; the girl whom Halima fostered into this discussion? I know logic is not Muslims' forte at all; As long as you remain glued with a seventh century hate manual you will never get what is logic and what is a logical fallacy. My signature is pertinent to guys like you but I bothered to answer just because of the bolded term in your quote above. However, I am not interested in a playschool level chat at all. If you don't want to debate with me, it is your problem and I won't gulp any aspirin for it.
See ya bob
KhaliL
_________________
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Hamad Al-Hasan
Joined: 15 Dec 2008
Posts: 81
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| Posted: Wed Dec 17, 2008 1:07 pm Post subject: |
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Dear sword_of_truth,
| sword_of_truth wrote: |
Yes. DNA would be virtually the same. Conditions only would be different. Haik already showed that the girls were malnurished, hence likely to be less mature.
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I think you should read this.
| Quote: |
May 25, 2006: The online edition of the German newsmagazine Der Spiegel reports that German girls and boys continue the trend of earlier first menstruation and first ejaculation.
Emeritus Professor Norbert Kluge of the Universität Koblenz-Landau wrote in the Internet publication "Beiträge zur Sexualwissenschaft und Sexualpädagogik" that girls in 1992 had their first period on average at 12.2 years old and in 2010 will have it around 10 or 11 years of age.
Researchers noted the trend 140 years ago. In 1860 the average menarche happened at 16.6 years, in 1920 at 14.6, in 1950 at 13.1 and 1980, 12.5 years. |
Source: http://www.mum.org/menarage.htm
So evidently, 140 years ago, female teens in Germany were different than now in terms of average year of the first period. So what would you think about females 1400 years ago + females from a totally different environment like the cold west ?
The environment itself has a major role in physical characterestics. Make some quick research.
| sword_of_truth wrote: |
A mistake of evolution. This is actually evidence of poor design if it is the work of a God. The fact is that medical studies show the risks. You are not using the same logic because there are studies that show risks of lower birthweight and higher risk of premature birth.
Using your same logic, incest should be perfectly fine. And in fact, Islam does allow incest between cousins.
|
1- Mistake of evolution. Now since you have reached to that level of non sense, I can be assured 100% that my question just killed you. I will not continue arguing with you on this matter if that is the case.
2- Incest between cousins is OK with us. Such marriages took and still taking place without any problems of any aspect.
| sword_of_truth wrote: |
You completely missed the point. Aisha could not possibly be aware of modern medical studies showing that babies born in early pregnancies have a risk of lower birthweight or premature birth. Among other things.
|
No, you are the one who missed the point, or is avoiding the point as it seems. Examine this hadith:
| Quote: |
Volume 7, Book 62, Number 18:
Narrated 'Ursa:
The Prophet asked Abu Bakr for 'Aisha's hand in marriage. Abu Bakr said "But I am your brother." The Prophet said, "You are my brother in Allah's religion and His Book, but she (Aisha) is lawful for me to marry." |
Please note the underlined. Abu bakr (ra) did not say "But she didn't reach puberty" or " But she is still too young" ! Now if Ayesha (ra) was unaware of whatever your saying, don't tell me that her own parents were ignorant of her ability to get married. And don't tell me that Abu Baker (ra) was afraid to question his BEST FRIEND when he actually did, "But I'm your brother". |
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Hamad Al-Hasan
Joined: 15 Dec 2008
Posts: 81
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| Posted: Wed Dec 17, 2008 1:13 pm Post subject: |
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Dear yeezevee,
| yeezevee wrote: |
| Quote: |
The prophet (pbuh) had a foster sister too (Shaima). In islam you cannot marry your foster sister, or her daughters. Similarly, you cannot marry your foster brother's daughters.
It is not my fault if you were ignorant of that fact. So before judging poeple, give them a chance to clarify their claims... Says Hamad Al-Hasan |
Well that is a good point dear Hamad Al-Hasan., So you thin EVERY WORD OF Q'URAN from Allah.. good., Being An Arab., growing and going to school in Arabia you do write English very well dear Hasan., Any way let me add this marriage rules of Islam in to the thread
| Quote: |
Prohibited Marriage Partners
Under the Shari'ah, marriages between men and women standing in a certain relationship to one another are prohibited. These prohibited degrees are either of a permanent nature or a temporary. The permanently prohibited degrees of marriage are laid down in the Holy Qur'an :
| Quote: |
| And marry not those women whom your fathers married, except what has already happened (of that nature) in the past. Lo! it was ever lewdness and abomination, and an evil way. Forbidden unto you are your mothers and your daughters, and your sisters and your father's sisters and your mother's sisters, and your brother's daughters and your sister's daughters, and your foster-mothers and your foster-sisters, and your mothers-in-law and your step-daughters who are under your mother-in-law and your step-daughters who are under your protection (born) of your women unto whom you have gone into -- but if you have not gone into them, then it is no sin for you (to marry their daughters) -- and the wives of your sons from your own loins, and that you should have two sisters together, except what has already happened (of that nature) in the past. Allah is ever-Forgiving, Merciful. (4:22 - 24) |
From the above verses, it is clear that a Muslim must never marry the following:
1. His mother
2. His step-mother (this practice continues in Yoruba land in Nigeria, where in some cases the eldest son inherits the youngest wife of his father)
3. His grandmother (including father's and mother's mothers and all preceding mothers e.g. great grandmothers )
4. His daughter (including granddaughters and beyond )
5. His sister (whether full, consanguine or uterine)
6. His father's sisters (including paternal grandfather's sisters)
7. His mother's sisters (including maternal grandmother's sisters)
8. His brother's daughters
9. His foster mother
10. His foster mother's sister
11. His sister's daughter
12. His foster sister
13. His wife's mother
14. His step-daughter (i.e. a daughter by a former husband of a woman he has married if the marriage has been consummated. However, if such a marriage was not consummated, there is no prohibition)
15. His real son's wife |
with best
yeezevee |
Thank you very much for your kind words.
And thank you for adding more valuable information into this discussion.
Best Regards,
Hamad |
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piscohot
Joined: 21 Sep 2004
Posts: 3928
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| Posted: Wed Dec 17, 2008 1:23 pm Post subject: |
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| Hamad Al-Hasan wrote: |
I think you should read this.
| Quote: |
May 25, 2006: The online edition of the German newsmagazine Der Spiegel reports that German girls and boys continue the trend of earlier first menstruation and first ejaculation.
Emeritus Professor Norbert Kluge of the Universität Koblenz-Landau wrote in the Internet publication "Beiträge zur Sexualwissenschaft und Sexualpädagogik" that girls in 1992 had their first period on average at 12.2 years old and in 2010 will have it around 10 or 11 years of age.Researchers noted the trend 140 years ago. In 1860 the average menarche happened at 16.6 years, in 1920 at 14.6, in 1950 at 13.1 and 1980, 12.5 years. |
Source: http://www.mum.org/menarage.htm
So evidently, 140 years ago, female teens in Germany were different than now in terms of average year of the first period. So what would you think about females 1400 years ago + females from a totally different environment like the cold west ?
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hello Hamad,
In case you did not notice, the age of 'maturity' of a girl gets younger with the passing of time and NOT the other way round as muslims like to proclaim: that girls 1400 years ago mature faster than girls of today.
_________________
Ratio of Men to Women in Islamic heaven - 1:72
Quran Miracle 16:69 :BEES EAT FRUITS... |
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