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Koran contradiction alert for AhmedBahgat
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ixolite

Joined: 27 Jan 2006
Posts: 12939
Location: land of pork and beer

Posted: Mon Dec 15, 2008 7:49 am Post subject:

Islamis_Allah_Tashit wrote:

AhmedBahgat wrote:

Aksel, Ankersen wrote:

Dear Ahmed, the post was adressed to Tawasau and neoliberalaxegrinder.

No need to personally dismiss it.

Tawa is banned, so I dismissed it on his behalf due to your repeated stupidity

I really wish they wouldn't ban people like this. There was so much more ridicule and embarrassment that we could have caused him. I was just getting started. And just when you have the guy painted into a corner, he gets saved embarrassment and doesn't have to answer by getting banned.

I am sure you will have some more fun with him, as he always comes back. He is addicted to this "pig sty" (quote BMZ).
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antineoliberalaxgrinder

Joined: 06 Sep 2004
Posts: 1727
Location: The line in the sand

Posted: Mon Dec 15, 2008 1:30 pm Post subject:

AB has not troubled to reply to my above question to him:

I wrote:

Is it or is it NOT the case that verse 60:8 is a blanket permission to treat people with kindness providing they have not "fought the Muslims for their faith"? Or is it non-applicable in various circumstances eg adultery? Answer please.

His absence of a reply is not because he has been absent from this forum. I will therefore take his silence as confirmation that Koran verse 60:8 indeed does NOT grant Muslims blanket permission to treat people in general and non-Muslims in particular with "kindness" providing they have never "fought the Muslims for their faith" nor "driven them from their homes". In other words verse 60:8 does NOT, as AB and others like him would have us believe, establish a general permission for Muslims to leave Kafirs unmolested provided those Kafirs have hitherto left the Muslims unmolested in the ritualistic practice of their religion. I put it to AB that aside from adultery there are a wide range of Koran-defined "offenses" that demand from Muslims less than "kind" responses the application of which are no more limited by verse 60:8 than the command to "mercilessly" flog adulterers. I eagerly await AB's reply.
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AhmedBahgat

Joined: 25 Jan 2006
Posts: 10001

Posted: Fri Dec 19, 2008 7:29 pm Post subject:

antineoliberalaxgrinder wrote:

AB has not troubled to reply to my above question to him:

I wrote:

Look pal

I have no time to watse on an issue that does not exist for any sane human,

60:8 is talking about non criminals/kafirs who do noot fight us on the account of the religion, i.e. kafirs who committed no crime

24:2 is talking about Muslims or Non Muslims who committed a Zina crime on a Muslim land

you have no point pal, but you may claim victory if that is what will make you happy

cheers
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sum

Joined: 10 Jul 2005
Posts: 8527
Location: UK

Posted: Fri Dec 19, 2008 7:35 pm Post subject:

Hello my erudite friend, AhmedBahgat Your quote - 60:8 is talking about non criminals/kafirs who do noot fight us on the account of the religion, i.e. kafirs who committed no crime Would it be a crime if the non-muslim declined the invitation to accept Islam? Would it be a crime if the non-muslim tried to convert a muslim to Christianity? sum

yeezevee

Joined: 17 Feb 2004
Posts: 17109

Posted: Fri Dec 19, 2008 7:38 pm Post subject:

Quote:

Look pal

I have no time to watse on an issue that does not exist for any sane human, ...says AhmedBahgat

What are you talking dear AhmedBahgat?.. who is talking about sane human??

People are talking about Islam and Muslims.. You Robot..

with best wishes
yeezevee

AhmedBahgat

Joined: 25 Jan 2006
Posts: 10001

Posted: Fri Dec 19, 2008 7:39 pm Post subject:

sum wrote:

Hello my erudite friend, AhmedBahgat

Your quote -
60:8 is talking about non criminals/kafirs who do noot fight us on the account of the religion, i.e. kafirs who committed no crime

Would it be a crime if the non-muslim declined the invitation to accept Islam?[/quote]

A crime from which persapective:

The humans

the God

?

the first is no, the second is yes

sum wrote:

Would it be a crime if the non-muslim tried to convert a muslim to Christianity?

sum

from the Quran point of view it is not a human crime, from the God point of you it is a crime because a human is leading another human to go agaisnt the God
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AhmedBahgat

Joined: 25 Jan 2006
Posts: 10001

Posted: Fri Dec 19, 2008 7:41 pm Post subject:

yeezevee wrote:

Quote:

Look pal

I have no time to watse on an issue that does not exist for any sane human, ...says AhmedBahgat

What are you talking dear AhmedBahgat?.. who is talking about sane human??

People are talking about Islam and Muslims.. You Robot..

with best wishes
yeezevee

Yekee

there are two sane kafirs who came to this thread and clearly said that it cannot be a contradiction

you are dismissed due to your stupidity
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sum

Joined: 10 Jul 2005
Posts: 8527
Location: UK

Posted: Fri Dec 19, 2008 7:44 pm Post subject:

Hello my very good friend, AhmedBahgat Your quote - there are two sane kafirs who came to this thread Am I a sane kafir? sum

AhmedBahgat

Joined: 25 Jan 2006
Posts: 10001

Posted: Fri Dec 19, 2008 7:45 pm Post subject:

sum wrote:

Hello my very good friend, AhmedBahgat

Hello

sum wrote:

Your quote -
there are two sane kafirs who came to this thread

Am I a sane kafir?

sum

Certainly negative
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sum

Joined: 10 Jul 2005
Posts: 8527
Location: UK

Posted: Fri Dec 19, 2008 7:57 pm Post subject:

Hello AhmedBahgat I know that you really rate me despite the "Negative"! sum

antineoliberalaxgrinder

Joined: 06 Sep 2004
Posts: 1727
Location: The line in the sand

Posted: Mon Dec 22, 2008 1:21 pm Post subject:

AhmedBahgat wrote:

Look pal

I have no time to watse on an issue that does not exist for any sane human,

I won't ask you, a Muslim, to define what YOU (as opposed to the rest of us) mean by "sane human" as I do not wish to get into a sidetrack issue. But perhaps it will make an interesting point of discussion at a later date. Aside from that I see you have found plenty of time to make nearly 10000 posts here since you first joined on 25 Jan 2006. I very much doubt they were all on matters of pressing urgency.

Quote:

60:8 is talking about non criminals/kafirs who do not fight us on the account of the religion, i.e. kafirs who committed no crime

You mean "crime" as defined by Islam don't you? I put it to you that an examples of such Islamically defined "crimes" can be found in Koran verse 9:29:

Quote:

Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued.

The "crimes" outlined in this verse are:

1) believing not in Allah nor the Last Day - ie rejecting (at least openly) the Koran's claim to be of divine origin and/or engaging in other Koran-defined acts of "kufr"

2) not holding forbidden that which has been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger - "His Messenger" being defined by the Koran as Muhammad

3) not acknowledging "the religion of Truth" ie Islam

The punishment for these "crimes" as committed by "People of the Book" is to be "fought" - and presumably KILLED - unless they pay the Muslims something called "Jizya". I put it to you that the inflicting of this punishment is no more limited by verse 60:8 than the command to punish adulerers with a "merciless" flogging. Afterall why would Allah bother to define those to be fought until they pay jizya as (1),(2) and (3) if these were not ALONE sufficient reason? Wouldn't he otherwise just have said "fight the people of the book who have fought you for your faith and driven you from your homes until they pay you jizya"?

Quote:

24:2 is talking about Muslims or Non Muslims who committed a Zina crime on a Muslim land

Where in the Koran does it state or imply that adulterers or other "zina criminals" are to be flogged only "on Muslim land" (whatever THAT is)? Or can you produce a hadith, Mr self-professed selective hadith denier, which stipulates or at least implies as much?

Quote:

you have no point pal, but you may claim victory if that is what will make you happy

cheers

What would make me happy is for you to seriously engage with the issues I have raised on this matter. Otherwise, the casual reader might start to think that you are afraid to and not take your claim to be a genuine selective hadith denier (as opposed to one espousing that position for deception purposes) seriously.
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Last edited by antineoliberalaxgrinder on Sat Dec 27, 2008 10:59 am; edited 1 time in total

antineoliberalaxgrinder

Joined: 06 Sep 2004
Posts: 1727
Location: The line in the sand

Posted: Sat Dec 27, 2008 10:17 am Post subject:

I have just noticed Ahmedbaghat's totally confused response to the following question by Sum:

sum wrote:

Would it be a crime if the non-muslim tried to convert a muslim to Christianity?

To which AB replied:

Quote:

from the Quran point of view it is not a human crime, from the God point of you it is a crime because a human is leading another human to go agaisnt the God

Now Ahmed, surely the "QURAN point of view "- the QURAN allegedly being the WORD of ALLAH - IS the "GOD point of view". "Oh what a tangled web we weave when first we practice to deceive" eh Ahmed? You are tying yourself in logical knots with this absurd selective hadith denial charade of yours. Give it up man! We can see through your web of deceit to what you really are: a fully paid up subscriber to the traditional Islamic concept of jihad as expounded by Osama bin Laden and co.
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antineoliberalaxgrinder

Joined: 06 Sep 2004
Posts: 1727
Location: The line in the sand

Posted: Sat Dec 27, 2008 10:30 am Post subject:

BTW AhmedBaghat, regarding your above statement to yezevee

Quote:

there are two sane kafirs who came to this thread and clearly said that it cannot be a contradiction

Could you please identify these two "sane Kafirs"?
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AhmedBahgat

Joined: 25 Jan 2006
Posts: 10001

Posted: Sat Dec 27, 2008 11:21 am Post subject:

antineoliberalaxgrinder wrote:

I have just noticed Ahmedbaghat's totally confused response to the following question by Sum:

sum wrote:

Would it be a crime if the non-muslim tried to convert a muslim to Christianity?

To which AB replied:

Quote:

from the Quran point of view it is not a human crime, from the God point of you it is a crime because a human is leading another human to go agaisnt the God

It seems you did not understand what i mean

I mean by a human crime is a human hurting another human so he should be punished, like theft, for which Allah has specified to us the human punishment that we should impose

now for making another human a disbeliever, that is not a human crime, it is however a crime in the eyes of Allah, and there is not human punsihment for it in the Quran, i.e. the matter will be for Allah to take care of it on the JD
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AhmedBahgat

Joined: 25 Jan 2006
Posts: 10001

Posted: Sat Dec 27, 2008 11:22 am Post subject:

antineoliberalaxgrinder wrote:

BTW AhmedBaghat, regarding your above statement to yezevee

Quote:

there are two sane kafirs who came to this thread and clearly said that it cannot be a contradiction

Could you please identify these two "sane Kafirs"?

I retreat my statement, they turned out to be insane
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