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Attention: Year 2009 is here
Wishing a very Happy New Year to all members of FFI. Our new and improved site is ready. To visit main site, click at faithfreedom.org and to visit our new forum, click at forum09.faithfreedom.org and register again. Do not worry about your old forum posts and PM, everything is saved here till 31st December, 2008 for future references.
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ast234
Joined: 10 Dec 2008
Posts: 4
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 Posted: Wed Dec 10, 2008 4:03 am Post subject: Tribute to Ali Sina |
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Ali Sina was once a great free and rational thinker whose arguments were lethal against Islam. He was a man that I admired and whose site I religiously read in order to debate Muslims. I never posted on this site because his debates shattered any hopes Muslims ever had of winning. However, his recent Anti-Obama article shows that his judgment has been overcome by greed and I must take a stand. I am convinced that this article was written for the sake of money and not education. Now I am not a conspiracy theorist like Muslims. I dont believe that he is on the payroll of the RNC or other anti-Obama organizations. However I do feel that this was a deliberate stunt in order for him to create controversy and raise his stock and profile with conservatives. He feels that by bashing Obama, more conservatives will jump on his bandwagon and buy his book. I feel detrayed by this new man. I urge all FFI regulars to demand his removal from the website. Let the real Anti-Islam scholars take over the forum. I for one openly declare that I will not support FFI any longer. I hope you revert back to your old self.
Evidence that Ali Sina is not using reason or logic
He says in his article that "Obama has not yet shown his real birth certificate. He may not be a natural born American. He admits he was Kenyan until he was 21. Almost certainly he was/is Indonesian. The American Constitution disqualifies a person with dual citizenship from becoming president. Maybe God is watching over America!"
1) Basically, the article assumes a completely unsupported fact about Obama then goes on to use that assumption to explain why he is evil incarnate. Following that, it bounces out a whole slew of false allegations already discredited to further prove how evil he is.
2) Obama LOST his kenyan citizenship when he was 21.
3) If Obama indeed possessed Indonesian citizenship as a child, it is unlikely he retains such citizenship. The country’s bylaws require any Indonesian citizen living abroad for more than five years to formally declare his intention to return, otherwise risk losing his citizenship status. The law does not necessarily mean Indonesian citizenship would be immediately lost. The law can be overruled by ministerial order.
4) On his website, there is a copy of his birth certificate.
5) I would think most people who are leaders (good or bad) have narcissistic tendencies but when you post an article that contains a picture of people who have been serial killers and bringers of genocide, then try to associate them with the president-elect, I have to question what is mentall wrong with A.S.
Barack Obama will strengthen Muslims and make them more stronger and bolder
I dont see how this is possible considering the fact that it is the Conservatives who believe that we should invade Muslim countries and try to win them over with democracy, without studying the tenents of Islam. Obama didn't vote for the Iraq war nor is he planning on invading and occupying Iran.
In Conclusion
Read his old articles. They relied on excellent logic and rational. This article is pure garbage. It is like reading a Muslim hit piece on the evils of Zionism and how the west is planning on invading Muslim lands and converting Muslims to Christianity and turning their women into models.
Last edited by ast234 on Thu Dec 11, 2008 5:26 am; edited 2 times in total |
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Ali Sina
Joined: 13 Feb 2004
Posts: 4607
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| Posted: Wed Dec 10, 2008 9:43 am Post subject: |
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Muslims also think I am a paid agent and write against Islam for money, fame or other worldly gains. That is because cultists are incapable of thinking there is anything wrong with their belief and therefore anyone who sees something wrong with it must be either envious, evil or greedy. This is how all narcissists view their detractors and since the cultist inherits the psychosis of his narcissist he also thinks like him and behaves in the same fashion. Hence Muslims take the insanity of their prophet and Obamaists take after this empty suit.
Your view is consistent with your cultic mentality, which further confirms my theory that we are dealing with a cult. People have attacked Palin, McCain, Clintons, Regan and any popular politician but you never see the kind of reaction we get when we criticize Obama. When you criticize a cult leader, the cultists are deeply hurt to the extent that they become vicious, abusive and attack you personally, instead of your argument, which they often don't read. That is why Muslims behave in such an insane way when someone criticizes their prophet and now we see the exact same fierceness and ferocity in Obama worshippers.
The sad reality is the often the cult leader himself is a sick individual with every imaginable flaw, and yet his worshippers can’t see that. There is no evil that this man can do that they are not willing to forgive and defend. The lives of Hitler, Muhammad, Mao, Khomeini, Castro and Obama are full of perversity but their devout brain dead followers find excuses for them and can’t even see them. They put their narcissist leaders on a pedestal, above the law.
Thank you for not supporting FFI. I do not think people who are themselves victims of a cult can help victims of another cult. Therefore. by not helping us you are helping us. I hope the rest of Obama worshippers take your lead and leave this forum. Only those who are free can help those who are in shackles. We do not need a large number of mental salves. Only a few truely liberated and rational people are enough to win this war.
_________________
Don't be a follower, but a prophet unto your own. |
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Aksel, Ankersen
Joined: 03 Nov 2008
Posts: 272
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| Posted: Wed Dec 10, 2008 10:27 am Post subject: |
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| ast234 wrote: |
| I urge all FFI regulars to demand his removal from the website. Let the real Anti-Islam scholars take over the forum. |
Ali Sina owns the joint and has previously made his position clear that those who don't like his site can leave. Some have launched their own forum, however, my guess is that through FFI you can reach a larger audience. I think working through our differences by communication is more productive than producing yet more splinter groups.
| Ali Sina wrote: |
| When you criticize a cult leader, the cultists are deeply hurt to the extent that they become vicious, abusive and attack you personally, instead of your argument, which they often don't read. |
Which is what you're doing, more or less, you made ad-hominens against ast234 rather than his or her argument on Obama's citizenship.
Not everyone who disagrees with you about Obama is an Obama worshipper or a cultist, that's equally strange (but no less frequent, on this site) than the belief that anyone who disagrees with you about Islam is a secret Muslim.
-Aksel
_________________
"your pit of the hell fire will be reserved for you, and on that day, myself and your parents will be laughing at you, It's Showtime"
-Ahmed Bahgat to a schoolgirl who left Islam |
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mrcommonsensenow
Joined: 09 Oct 2006
Posts: 1711
Location: Earth
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| Posted: Wed Dec 10, 2008 3:53 pm Post subject: |
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| Ali Sina wrote: |
| Your view is consistent with your cultic mentality, which further confirms my theory that we are dealing with a cult. |
People Who Live In Glass Houses Should Not Throw Stones
_________________
It is not logical to believe that the same God who has allegedly endowed us with sense, reasons, and intellect has intended us to forgo their use. |
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elang_laut
Joined: 08 Dec 2008
Posts: 6
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| Posted: Wed Dec 10, 2008 4:15 pm Post subject: |
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in the case of obama ....A.S. loosing his sharpness on looking into the detailed facts ...his theory fully occupies him and bring him into the paranoia zone. What happened to him ? your hate or hmmm disagreement on many islamic teachings should not make you misorientated and loosing you objectivity.
i am wondering if i am now a new member of obama cult  I dont think so.
E.L. |
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Jaka Tuak
Joined: 02 Dec 2008
Posts: 38
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| Posted: Wed Dec 10, 2008 6:40 pm Post subject: |
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| I'm not Obama's supporter and didn't wish he won the election. But since he will soon be the US President, why don't we give him a chance to do his job. No need to keep grudges against anyone who doesn't commit any crime to humanity anywhere. |
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diotima64
Joined: 21 Jun 2004
Posts: 16559
Location: middleearth
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| Posted: Wed Dec 10, 2008 6:45 pm Post subject: |
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| Jaka Tuak wrote: |
| I'm not Obama's supporter and didn't wish he won the election. But since he will soon be the US President, why don't we give him a chance to do his job. No need to keep grudges against anyone who doesn't commit any crime to humanity anywhere. |
That´s the ticket! Both the ardent obamamessiamaniacs, and those who think he´s Satan incarnate are a bit... over the top? Give the man a chance, to prove himself one way or the other! Probably, he´ll turn out just another politician... who hopefully doesn´t do too much harm, and some good.
_________________
Ahmed the wife-beating bahgat moslem said:
"I said I will beat MY ILL CONDUCT WIFE if she insists on her ill conduct" |
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Gaul&Carthage
Joined: 11 Apr 2004
Posts: 4914
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| Posted: Wed Dec 10, 2008 6:52 pm Post subject: |
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You're often wrong Ali....sometimes right...but when you right....you are RIGHT! Sometimes...
Above all....you have got GUTS!!!
And for a long time now.
Thanks for being who you are. Don't forget though...you must change...for if you are immutable...then you are a ...mullah...to put it succintly.
Stay on the up and up!
G&C |
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ast234
Joined: 10 Dec 2008
Posts: 4
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| Posted: Thu Dec 11, 2008 5:14 am Post subject: |
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| Ali Sina wrote: |
Muslims also think I am a paid agent and write against Islam for money, fame or other worldly gains. That is because cultists are incapable of thinking there is anything wrong with their belief and therefore anyone who sees something wrong with it must be either envious, evil or greedy. This is how all narcissists view their detractors and since the cultist inherits the psychosis of his narcissist he also thinks like him and behaves in the same fashion. Hence Muslims take the insanity of their prophet and Obamaists take after this empty suit.
Your view is consistent with your cultic mentality, which further confirms my theory that we are dealing with a cult. People have attacked Palin, McCain, Clintons, Regan and any popular politician but you never see the kind of reaction we get when we criticize Obama. When you criticize a cult leader, the cultists are deeply hurt to the extent that they become vicious, abusive and attack you personally, instead of your argument, which they often don't read. That is why Muslims behave in such an insane way when someone criticizes their prophet and now we see the exact same fierceness and ferocity in Obama worshippers.
The sad reality is the often the cult leader himself is a sick individual with every imaginable flaw, and yet his worshippers can’t see that. There is no evil that this man can do that they are not willing to forgive and defend. The lives of Hitler, Muhammad, Mao, Khomeini, Castro and Obama are full of perversity but their devout brain dead followers find excuses for them and can’t even see them. They put their narcissist leaders on a pedestal, above the law.
Thank you for not supporting FFI. I do not think people who are themselves victims of a cult can help victims of another cult. Therefore. by not helping us you are helping us. I hope the rest of Obama worshippers take your lead and leave this forum. Only those who are free can help those who are in shackles. We do not need a large number of mental salves. Only a few truely liberated and rational people are enough to win this war. |
You are slipping Ali. This is a weak response and I don't think you even think you read what I wrote. You assume I am a "cultist" and uncapable of free thinking. I did NOT accuse you of being on anyone's payroll. I accused your article of being a publicity stunt in order to generate controversey. That is my opinion. Your views on Obama are merely your opinion, which is not supported by any hard facts. For your article, I'll stick to the facts.
I refuted a paragraph of your article. You argued that Obama may not be an American citizen. I refuteed that claim. Offer a counter rebuttal. |
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ast234
Joined: 10 Dec 2008
Posts: 4
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| Posted: Thu Dec 11, 2008 5:22 am Post subject: |
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In your article you start off with a lengthy explanation of Narcissism and offer infantile examples in order to justify your characterization of Obama. (By the way, what psychologist diagnosis a person based on interviews?)
NPD sufferers fabricate lies, are secretive, and are megalomaniac.
You say Obama lies about a whole number of things and then compare him to Hitler. What politician has not lied or been accused of lying? Based on this example, every single politician in human history has suffered from NPD. Why didn't you write this article about George Bush? The Hitler comparison is so laughable that it is is shameful. As I am rereading the article there are so many absurd points. I wish I could sit here and go down the list but I am pressed for time. However I assure you in the coming weeks I will offer a detailed rebuttal. |
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bhb
Joined: 05 Dec 2008
Posts: 7
Location: SURREY, ENGLAND
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| Posted: Thu Dec 11, 2008 6:44 am Post subject: |
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| Ali Sina wrote: |
Muslims also think I am a paid agent and write against Islam for money, fame or other worldly gains. That is because cultists are incapable of thinking there is anything wrong with their belief and therefore anyone who sees something wrong with it must be either envious, evil or greedy. This is how all narcissists view their detractors and since the cultist inherits the psychosis of his narcissist he also thinks like him and behaves in the same fashion. Hence Muslims take the insanity of their prophet and Obamaists take after this empty suit.
Your view is consistent with your cultic mentality, which further confirms my theory that we are dealing with a cult. People have attacked Palin, McCain, Clintons, Regan and any popular politician but you never see the kind of reaction we get when we criticize Obama. When you criticize a cult leader, the cultists are deeply hurt to the extent that they become vicious, abusive and attack you personally, instead of your argument, which they often don't read. That is why Muslims behave in such an insane way when someone criticizes their prophet and now we see the exact same fierceness and ferocity in Obama worshippers.
The sad reality is the often the cult leader himself is a sick individual with every imaginable flaw, and yet his worshippers can’t see that. There is no evil that this man can do that they are not willing to forgive and defend. The lives of Hitler, Muhammad, Mao, Khomeini, Castro and Obama are full of perversity but their devout brain dead followers find excuses for them and can’t even see them. They put their narcissist leaders on a pedestal, above the law.
Thank you for not supporting FFI. I do not think people who are themselves victims of a cult can help victims of another cult. Therefore. by not helping us you are helping us. I hope the rest of Obama worshippers take your lead and leave this forum. Only those who are free can help those who are in shackles. We do not need a large number of mental salves. Only a few truely liberated and rational people are enough to win this war. |
Ali,
You have disappointed me and many of the silent readers. You should have ignored the poster and let others handle.
Why should we leave the forum? You don't sound free youself and it seems that some narcissistic person or group is controlling your narcissistic mind.
I am appalled at this. Obama is the President-Elect of USA and by writing against him, you have declared a vast majority of American citizens fools and you do not have this right.
A rational thinker won the US election because he made the people think.
I think you should apologise to the poster, Mr. Obama and all Americans. |
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bhb
Joined: 05 Dec 2008
Posts: 7
Location: SURREY, ENGLAND
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| Posted: Thu Dec 11, 2008 6:47 am Post subject: |
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| Aksel, Ankersen wrote: |
| ast234 wrote: |
| I urge all FFI regulars to demand his removal from the website. Let the real Anti-Islam scholars take over the forum. |
Ali Sina owns the joint and has previously made his position clear that those who don't like his site can leave. Some have launched their own forum, however, my guess is that through FFI you can reach a larger audience. I think working through our differences by communication is more productive than producing yet more splinter groups.
| Ali Sina wrote: |
| When you criticize a cult leader, the cultists are deeply hurt to the extent that they become vicious, abusive and attack you personally, instead of your argument, which they often don't read. |
Which is what you're doing, more or less, you made ad-hominens against ast234 rather than his or her argument on Obama's citizenship.
Not everyone who disagrees with you about Obama is an Obama worshipper or a cultist, that's equally strange (but no less frequent, on this site) than the belief that anyone who disagrees with you about Islam is a secret Muslim.
-Aksel |
Couldn't have said it, better. Well-said. That was an honest and frank opinion. Ali should not have brought up the topic and let his political ambitions and affiliations out before the members of this board. |
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bhb
Joined: 05 Dec 2008
Posts: 7
Location: SURREY, ENGLAND
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| Posted: Thu Dec 11, 2008 7:16 am Post subject: |
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| Ali Sina wrote: |
Muslims also think I am a paid agent and write against Islam for money, fame or other worldly gains. That is because cultists are incapable of thinking there is anything wrong with their belief and therefore anyone who sees something wrong with it must be either envious, evil or greedy. This is how all narcissists view their detractors and since the cultist inherits the psychosis of his narcissist he also thinks like him and behaves in the same fashion. Hence Muslims take the insanity of their prophet and Obamaists take after this empty suit.
Your view is consistent with your cultic mentality, which further confirms my theory that we are dealing with a cult. People have attacked Palin, McCain, Clintons, Regan and any popular politician but you never see the kind of reaction we get when we criticize Obama. When you criticize a cult leader, the cultists are deeply hurt to the extent that they become vicious, abusive and attack you personally, instead of your argument, which they often don't read. That is why Muslims behave in such an insane way when someone criticizes their prophet and now we see the exact same fierceness and ferocity in Obama worshippers.
The sad reality is the often the cult leader himself is a sick individual with every imaginable flaw, and yet his worshippers can’t see that. There is no evil that this man can do that they are not willing to forgive and defend. The lives of Hitler, Muhammad, Mao, Khomeini, Castro and Obama are full of perversity but their devout brain dead followers find excuses for them and can’t even see them. They put their narcissist leaders on a pedestal, above the law.
Thank you for not supporting FFI. I do not think people who are themselves victims of a cult can help victims of another cult. Therefore. by not helping us you are helping us. I hope the rest of Obama worshippers take your lead and leave this forum. Only those who are free can help those who are in shackles. We do not need a large number of mental salves. Only a few truely liberated and rational people are enough to win this war. |
Ali,
You broke your own rule 'Don't be a follower, but a prophet unto your own.'
What have you done? I suggest this thread be deleted and all move on, assuming if all are in agreement. I don't know if ast234 will agree with this.
The sad reality is that as the leader of this site, you have become a sick individual with every imaginable flaw, and yet you are trying to make people not see the narcissist in you.
I am really appalled at this development. |
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bhb
Joined: 05 Dec 2008
Posts: 7
Location: SURREY, ENGLAND
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| Posted: Thu Dec 11, 2008 7:57 am Post subject: |
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| Ali Sina wrote: |
Muslims also think I am a paid agent and write against Islam for money, fame or other worldly gains. That is because cultists are incapable of thinking there is anything wrong with their belief and therefore anyone who sees something wrong with it must be either envious, evil or greedy. This is how all narcissists view their detractors and since the cultist inherits the psychosis of his narcissist he also thinks like him and behaves in the same fashion. Hence Muslims take the insanity of their prophet and Obamaists take after this empty suit.
Your view is consistent with your cultic mentality, which further confirms my theory that we are dealing with a cult. People have attacked Palin, McCain, Clintons, Regan and any popular politician but you never see the kind of reaction we get when we criticize Obama. When you criticize a cult leader, the cultists are deeply hurt to the extent that they become vicious, abusive and attack you personally, instead of your argument, which they often don't read. That is why Muslims behave in such an insane way when someone criticizes their prophet and now we see the exact same fierceness and ferocity in Obama worshippers.
The sad reality is the often the cult leader himself is a sick individual with every imaginable flaw, and yet his worshippers can’t see that. There is no evil that this man can do that they are not willing to forgive and defend. The lives of Hitler, Muhammad, Mao, Khomeini, Castro and Obama are full of perversity but their devout brain dead followers find excuses for them and can’t even see them. They put their narcissist leaders on a pedestal, above the law.
Thank you for not supporting FFI. I do not think people who are themselves victims of a cult can help victims of another cult. Therefore. by not helping us you are helping us. I hope the rest of Obama worshippers take your lead and leave this forum. Only those who are free can help those who are in shackles. We do not need a large number of mental salves. Only a few truely liberated and rational people are enough to win this war. |
| Quote: |
Ali Sina
Joined: 13 Feb 2004
Posts: 4562
Posted: Thu Nov 20, 2008 12:20 am Post subject:
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We are going to start the Indonesian forum again with a new administrative team and a new by law.
The Indonesian forum, by virtue of reaching a Muslim country must be sensitive to the people’s feelings. They should be a lot more moderate than the main site. The main site reaches an audience in the west who are used to freedom of speech. I am afraid Islamic countries are not used to that and therefore we have to be a lot more careful of what we say and show so as to not to appear as too offensive.
We will discuss among the directors of FFI to replace the out going moderators. We will decide what bylaws the moderators should adhere to. But I would suspect they will be along these lines.
The moderators can be of any faith, but preferably of no faith. If they belong to a religion they must not openly promote that religion. There are other sites that do that. The goal of FFI is to show that Islam is not a divine religion. What other religions people wish to choose should be their choice. We should not be recommending any.
The language of the posters, particularly non-Muslim posters must be controlled and any personal attacks disallowed. Although I believe Islam is stupidity, this does not follow that Muslims are stupid. People do not become stupid for embracing a stupid belief. There are millions of smart people who now have fallen for Obama. I find that utter stupidity, but this does not mean these people are stupid. We know many of them for years and we know they are among very smart people. Belief in a religion does not make one stupid just as disbelief in religions does not make one smart. So any personal attacks and insults must be banned.
In consideration of the sensitivity of the Muslims residing in Islamic countries who are not used to freedom of speech and freedom of expression, all offensive cartoons and images should be deleted. I don’t consider cartoons and humor as bad strategy, but to protect the moderators and not offend the readers in Islamic countries, the forums that target these countries should remove them.
_________________
Don't be a follower, but a prophet unto your own. |
Ali,
Did you write this yourself or did somebodyelse write it for you? If you were so considerate for the Muslims, whom you hate so much, why weren't you considerate about the feelings of an average American here? |
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yeezevee
Joined: 17 Feb 2004
Posts: 17109
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| Posted: Thu Dec 11, 2008 2:38 pm Post subject: |
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bhb writes: Ali,
Did you write this yourself or did somebodyelse write it for you? If you were so considerate for the Muslims, whom you hate so much , why weren't you considerate about the feelings of an average American here? |
welcome to FFI dear Mr. BHB., I am so glad you have joined FFI forum., I am curious you are living in ENGLAND., and a retired colonel., what makes you to read FFI and how did you get to know this site?? Well may be Ali Sina doesn't care about Americans or average Americans., He has the right to criticize and you or me have the right to respond to Ali.. Don't we?? Any way ..to start forget this Ali - Obama .. and their medical problems.etc..etc ., but your opinions on the forum will be valuable so please write into the forum when ever you can and may be read some articles from these links.. Start with Ali sina himself.. He is thorough in his writings and convincing some people. But IF YOU DON'T QUESTION HIM .. then he will not know his mistakes..
please read more of his articles at http://www.faithfreedom.org/Author/Sina.htm and for some time forget this Obama thing .. Ali is writing for a long time so start from the BOTTOM OF THAT LINK..
with best regards
yeezevee |
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