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IandonlyI
Joined: 26 Aug 2006
Posts: 2884
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 Posted: Fri Dec 05, 2008 4:03 pm Post subject: Athiest Intolerance |
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There is no need to put up signs where it would offend people. But athiests do that. Why? They could put it anywhere else in the world. Hell on a highway billboard but they have to put it near nativity scene. Athiesm is no better than any other belief because eventually it ends up telling others what to do.
I might as well be a believer because if there is no God I have nothing to lose but if there is God and I am athiest I have a lot to lose. Besides athiesm has not proved to be any better than believers.
http://www.cnn.com/2008/LIVING/12/05/atheists.christmas/index.html
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charleslemartel
Joined: 29 Nov 2007
Posts: 1071
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| Posted: Fri Dec 05, 2008 4:28 pm Post subject: Re: Athiest Intolerance |
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| IandonlyI wrote: |
There is no need to put up signs where it would offend people. But athiests do that. Why? They could put it anywhere else in the world. Hell on a highway billboard but they have to put it near nativity scene. Athiesm is no better than any other belief because eventually it ends up telling others what to do.
I might as well be a believer because if there is no God I have nothing to lose but if there is God and I am athiest I have a lot to lose. Besides athiesm has not proved to be any better than believers.
http://www.cnn.com/2008/LIVING/12/05/atheists.christmas/index.html |
Wrong. You lose nothing even if there is God and you are an atheist. No God is going to punish you for your disbelief. Why does one become an atheist? Among the many reasons, the most prominent one is that there is not enough evidence for God's existence. Even if there is, the worst one can say about an atheist is that he failed to see the evidence. It would be a failure of his intellect but no sin certainly. In fact, he might even be commended by God for having the courage to go by his convictions which derived from his reasoning capabilities no matter how limited they are.
Atheism is certainly better at least in one respect. An atheist has the courage to examine his conditionings and prejudices. Why should he listen to others and not examine the issue of God's existence for himself?
I agree with you when you talk of haughty attitude some atheists display. But that is because they become atheists because it sounds modern and contemporary.
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Happy New Year to Everyone
Fear is the most powerful emotional tool, it can turn off the areas of the brain responsible for rational thought.
Is that why Muslims can't be rational? |
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IandonlyI
Joined: 26 Aug 2006
Posts: 2884
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| Posted: Fri Dec 05, 2008 4:51 pm Post subject: Re: Athiest Intolerance |
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| charleslemartel wrote: |
| IandonlyI wrote: |
There is no need to put up signs where it would offend people. But athiests do that. Why? They could put it anywhere else in the world. Hell on a highway billboard but they have to put it near nativity scene. Athiesm is no better than any other belief because eventually it ends up telling others what to do.
I might as well be a believer because if there is no God I have nothing to lose but if there is God and I am athiest I have a lot to lose. Besides athiesm has not proved to be any better than believers.
http://www.cnn.com/2008/LIVING/12/05/atheists.christmas/index.html |
Wrong. You lose nothing even if there is God and you are an atheist. No God is going to punish you for your disbelief. Why does one become an atheist? Among the many reasons, the most prominent one is that there is not enough evidence for God's existence. Even if there is, the worst one can say about an atheist is that he failed to see the evidence. It would be a failure of his intellect but no sin certainly. In fact, he might even be commended by God for having the courage to go by his convictions which derived from his reasoning capabilities no matter how limited they are.
Atheism is certainly better at least in one respect. An atheist has the courage to examine his conditionings and prejudices. Why should he listen to others and not examine the issue of God's existence for himself?
I agree with you when you talk of haughty attitude some atheists display. But that is because they become atheists because it sounds modern and contemporary. |
I understand that if there is God and I diddnt believe in him he is not going to punish but at same time he might not reward me so not really what I meant. What I meant was if there is no god and I am believer I have nothing to lose and if there is God and I am disbeliever I might not be punished but I would lose lots of rewards. Not the worldly rewards like 72 virgins ofcourse and I do not believe in Heaven so not heavenly rewards either but the reward of some peace and oneness with him.
I guess I am a pessimist and so whenever I am not sure of something I like to take negative aspect of it. Because for things you are not sure being negative pays off the most and if it doesn't atleast you make no loss.
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charleslemartel
Joined: 29 Nov 2007
Posts: 1071
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| Posted: Fri Dec 05, 2008 5:07 pm Post subject: Re: Athiest Intolerance |
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| IandonlyI wrote: |
I understand that if there is God and I diddnt believe in him he is not going to punish but at same time he might not reward me so not really what I meant. What I meant was if there is no god and I am believer I have nothing to lose and if there is God and I am disbeliever I might not be punished but I would lose lots of rewards. Not the worldly rewards like 72 virgins ofcourse and I do not believe in Heaven so not heavenly rewards either but the reward of some peace and oneness with him.
I guess I am a pessimist and so whenever I am not sure of something I like to take negative aspect of it. Because for things you are not sure being negative pays off the most and if it doesn't atleast you make no loss. |
Sorry, but you have still got it wrong. If God does not punish for disbelief, he will not reward for belief in him too.
The rewards of peace come not with belief in God; look at Muslims, the most ardent believers in God, and see how peaceful they appear  .
Peace comes with right attitude towards life, understanding, renunciation of ambitions and expectations. You cannot find more peaceful human beings than Buddha and Mahavira; and both were atheists.
Forget the examples. Just ponder over why there is lack of peace in your mind. Why do you lose your peace? Think about it and you will get the answer.
I may be of some help to you in finding the answer, if not peace.
Pessimism is one step nearer to VAIRAGYA.
_________________
Happy New Year to Everyone
Fear is the most powerful emotional tool, it can turn off the areas of the brain responsible for rational thought.
Is that why Muslims can't be rational? |
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sword_of_truth
Joined: 12 Oct 2008
Posts: 255
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| Posted: Sat Dec 06, 2008 5:32 am Post subject: |
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Those signs are equivalent to a sign saying stuff about Jesus being our savior. Especially, the second one wasn't offensive or intolerant. The first one was perhaps a little tactless, but the second one just asks a question.
Seems like you're just offended by the idea of atheism.
It's not like atheists are condemning anyone to hell if they want to believe in religion. I hear the threats of hell much louder than I hear the screams accusing people of religious superstition.
I don't know if advertising is really the way to go, though.
We don't know what God is going to do to us if he exists, so believing or not believing in God is irrelevant.
Naturally, the non-religious think everyone else is wrong. That's no different from anyone else.
There are some things about religion that seem quite unreasonable to me, but at the end of the day, I have my Christian friends, and I don't see that they are doing anyone any harm by believing in what they believe. They are wrong, but that's fine. A very select few I might even say aren't even quite wrong, but merely CHOOSE to believe because they like it. It is possible to understand all the atheist arguments, see the logic, even agree with it, and still say no, you cannot disprove Christianity, therefore, dispite all that, I choose to believe in it because I find it valuable for whatever reason. As long as there are no logical or moral mistakes, I have no problems with anyone being a Christian. Provided they don't force it on their kids. Of course, I still disagree because I want my beliefs to be true, hence they must be supported by evidence, and not choice, plus I don't see the use, personally, of believing in religion.
Most Christians do not meet those standards, so I do have a problem with them, but it may be a completely forgivable problem, depending on how far it goes.
Islam, on the other hand, requires moral mistakes. |
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Plexus
Joined: 20 Jan 2007
Posts: 125
Location: Australia
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| Posted: Mon Dec 08, 2008 11:55 am Post subject: Re: Athiest Intolerance |
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| IandonlyI wrote: |
There is no need to put up signs where it would offend people. But athiests do that. Why? They could put it anywhere else in the world. Hell on a highway billboard but they have to put it near nativity scene. Athiesm is no better than any other belief because eventually it ends up telling others what to do.
I might as well be a believer because if there is no God I have nothing to lose but if there is God and I am athiest I have a lot to lose. Besides athiesm has not proved to be any better than believers.
http://www.cnn.com/2008/LIVING/12/05/atheists.christmas/index.html |
To quote Richard Dawkins, “We are all atheists; I’ve just gone one God further.”
Atheists are atheists because they have no belief in any God so to say atheism is some kind of belief is just trying to engage an atheist on your own delusional playground. For an atheist there is no ground for you to debate belief, he/she has none and you can provide no proof to convince he/she to become a believer unless you are prepared to make yourself look foolish, delusional etc.
Now there’s my atheist belief, one we can debate. I believe religious people have been indoctrinated and are caught in a childish fantasy and in spite of the glaring BS in their so called holy books they, as supposed adults trot of all sorts of crap and even pass it of as miracles; Mary was a virgin… 500 saw Jesus ascend… Noah and his ark… Adam and Eve…. The world is 6000 years old….
Astounding.
And why?
Contemplate this and then contemplate some more, you might get some insight but I doubt it.
Maybe you have a child like response to the uncertainty of life and you need certainty so this BS gives you comfort but I say you are intellectually dishonest and a selfish coward to ignore our religious horrific history or of the many of you, who after relinquishing reason and logic for faith in some invisible, immeasurable, undetectable savior, go on to commit atrocities upon their fellow man.
Atheist have committed atrocities, it is in us all but we atheists have one less reason to behave that way, given all that has been done in God’s name that is not an inconsiderable saving is it?
You and your religion are corrupt from woe to go, based in falsity and sustained in fear and the entire most base of human emotions.
You’ve corrupted belief by passing it off as the truth, you’ve made faith a dirty word and you despicably pass this meme to any vulnerable around you, including your children, you are not forgiven.
Mmmmm…. let me just back up here a bit. Its true there has been a lot of good done and being done because of religion, may have saved us, maybe even keeping someone from despair and suicide this very moment. It’s serves to united people, as long as you think the same, otherwise of course you’re with Satan and going to hell.
Not wanting to deny people comfort and security I would like to point out there are other philosophies, other than religion to serve us.
I am old and near death with an illness and will not, cannot take refuge in fantasy and insanity (there are atheists in the trenches), just do right by others (the golden rule) and you won’t fear death. |
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IandonlyI
Joined: 26 Aug 2006
Posts: 2884
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| Posted: Mon Dec 08, 2008 8:53 pm Post subject: |
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Plexus wrote:
| Quote: |
| Atheists are atheists because they have no belief in any God so to say atheism is some kind of belief is just trying to engage an atheist on your own delusional playground. For an atheist there is no ground for you to debate belief, he/she has none and you can provide no proof to convince he/she to become a believer unless you are prepared to make yourself look foolish, delusional etc. |
There is no such thing as no belief. Even a athiest believes in something. They dont believe in God but they have their own set of beliefs. Human without belief is an oxymoron. So please take this garbage somewhere else where someone cares. Biggest mistake one can make is underestimate anyone. So unless you think I am a total fool keep showing your intelligence to this forum.
You should maybe goto some athiests' site and tell them this. Good luck!
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IandonlyI
Joined: 26 Aug 2006
Posts: 2884
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| Posted: Mon Dec 08, 2008 9:06 pm Post subject: Re: Athiest Intolerance |
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| charleslemartel wrote: |
| IandonlyI wrote: |
I understand that if there is God and I diddnt believe in him he is not going to punish but at same time he might not reward me so not really what I meant. What I meant was if there is no god and I am believer I have nothing to lose and if there is God and I am disbeliever I might not be punished but I would lose lots of rewards. Not the worldly rewards like 72 virgins ofcourse and I do not believe in Heaven so not heavenly rewards either but the reward of some peace and oneness with him.
I guess I am a pessimist and so whenever I am not sure of something I like to take negative aspect of it. Because for things you are not sure being negative pays off the most and if it doesn't atleast you make no loss. |
Sorry, but you have still got it wrong. If God does not punish for disbelief, he will not reward for belief in him too.
The rewards of peace come not with belief in God; look at Muslims, the most ardent believers in God, and see how peaceful they appear .
Peace comes with right attitude towards life, understanding, renunciation of ambitions and expectations. You cannot find more peaceful human beings than Buddha and Mahavira; and both were atheists.
Forget the examples. Just ponder over why there is lack of peace in your mind. Why do you lose your peace? Think about it and you will get the answer.
I may be of some help to you in finding the answer, if not peace.
Pessimism is one step nearer to VAIRAGYA. |
Yes pessimism is one step nearer to Bairag. I agree. Thanks for the compliments, if intended.
You are right that God also does not punish for not believing in him.
I dont think Mahavira was athiest, where did you read that? About Buddha, it is a big lie that he was a athiest, Buddhism does not believe in God but neighter do they denounce God. Buddha just picked a path where you take personal responsibility and the rest follows. You do your thing and the rest follows. But anyway, I am not going to argue about Buddha but I really doubt Mahavira was athiest.
About the rest of the thing about peace of mind etc. Honestly you are probably right man, no arguments there as I am not sure. But why dont you guys understand that the chemicals in your athiest mind mind be balanced and you have no issues but are you claiming that every other human has no issues? Doyou know that sometime just letting go of things and giving it to God(even if God does not exist) to handle is fixes many problems. Do you realize that? Do you know the power of letting go? I dont know, maybe I am not explaining it right but God has its purpose in life of many people.
Maybe God is invention of miserable mind but pay attention to the word miserable, yes even if the miserable mind found God It solved his problems, atleast it worked for him. So what is wrong with God.
My personal experience, totally honestly, is that everytime I have let God handle things for me they have worked out and this is everytime as long as I was doing the right thing!!!
Now if we want to talk about religion, it is a different matter. Yes we can find million different mistakes in religion and religion no doubt is a invention of human mind and many of the things in religion are good and many bad. yes religion have caused enough problems in the world but at same time we dont know how many problems it has solved untill there is a totally different set of belief.
We do now, athiesm, and that is exactly the purpose of this thread. I am not religious head complainign about athiest as in my religion is attacked. The purpose of the thread is the intolerance is also the same with athiests. So the thing is as far as problems of the world are concerned that were caused by religino will not be solved by athiesm. Athiesm has a tendency to be same intolerance of other beliefs and this thread and the article from CNN is the proof.
If athiesm was any better they would not do anythign that would offend religion. So what is the difference between both? None, Nada. So athiesm fails on one of the counts. Peiod.
P.S. Before you comment please try to understand what someone is trying to say before you comment. As all of you failed to understand the point of this thread.
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Plexus
Joined: 20 Jan 2007
Posts: 125
Location: Australia
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| Posted: Tue Dec 09, 2008 5:20 am Post subject: |
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| IandonlyI wrote: |
Plexus wrote:
| Quote: |
| Atheists are atheists because they have no belief in any God so to say atheism is some kind of belief is just trying to engage an atheist on your own delusional playground. For an atheist there is no ground for you to debate belief, he/she has none and you can provide no proof to convince he/she to become a believer unless you are prepared to make yourself look foolish, delusional etc. |
There is no such thing as no belief. Even a athiest believes in something. They dont believe in God but they have their own set of beliefs. Human without belief is an oxymoron. So please take this garbage somewhere else where someone cares. Biggest mistake one can make is underestimate anyone. So unless you think I am a total fool keep showing your intelligence to this forum.
You should maybe goto some athiests' site and tell them this. Good luck! |
That was with all due disrespect a dumb response and brings to mind another common response from those that are inflicted with the religious virus when their ‘beliefs’ are criticized. Anger, was it that that made you misinterpret what I said? Again I’ll point out quoting myself “Atheists are atheists because they have no belief in any God”. Ofcourse atheists have beliefs just not in God which is what I said.
Qooting you “So unless you think I am a total fool keep showing your intelligence to this forum”. Now what the hell does that mean. Your anger has befuddled you, so much for your religious peace of mind.
“You and your religion are corrupt from woe to go, based in falsity and sustained in fear and the entire most base of human emotions.” All human beings are capable of corruption, lying, loss of peace of mind, violence; religious people just have one more reason to do it. You totally misrepresented what I said, ask yourself why you did, its self evident. My only question is are you aware of your lying or has religion short circuited your reasoning capacity.
You wrote “Human without belief is an oxymoron”. A little reality therapy. An atheists beliefs are what they are, purely conjecture, we may have strong or weak beliefs depending on the evidence whereas I said “You’ve corrupted belief by passing it off as the truth”. Isn’t religious belief the gospel truth, the absolute truth for you? Religious belief is an oxymoron!
I might add, when I said “you’ve made faith a dirty word”, in the same light atheists have faith but just not in some invisible, undetectable, no evidence of, God. My faith lies in things like my kids, myself, science, mankind, in spite of those that are inflicted with the religious meme who are doing their best to keep us backward thinking and threaten our actual survival.
IandonlyI, I do care and I come here because of my concern of the Islamic threat but I dont want to see any other religion, especially the abrahic ones empowered in the struggle. |
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sword_of_truth
Joined: 12 Oct 2008
Posts: 255
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| Posted: Tue Dec 09, 2008 6:17 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
| We do now, athiesm, and that is exactly the purpose of this thread. I am not religious head complainign about athiest as in my religion is attacked. The purpose of the thread is the intolerance is also the same with athiests. So the thing is as far as problems of the world are concerned that were caused by religino will not be solved by athiesm. Athiesm has a tendency to be same intolerance of other beliefs and this thread and the article from CNN is the proof. |
Nope, sorry, that's not very much evidence. I said I'm okay with people being Christian, unless their Christianity is causing problems. I merely disagree with them.
| Quote: |
| If athiesm was any better they would not do anythign that would offend religion. So what is the difference between both? None, Nada. So athiesm fails on one of the counts. Peiod. |
Well, if you think something is wrong, you are going to offend people. If I don't like somebody telling their kids that the world is 6000 years old, they are going to get offended. But it's not necessarilty intolerant to tell them, no, the world isn't 6000 years old, it's 4.5 billion years old, and here's why. Religious ideas are just ideas. Just the fact that they are religious shouldn't make them automatically immune to criticism. I don't like people having sex with 9 year olds. If muslims are offended by that, tough. Protesting something that is wrong isn't intolerance. What's the big deal, unless there is physical violence?
People who can't take criticism are sissies.
I welcome criticism.
Objecting to criticism is not only not going to solve problems--it protects problems from being solved.
Atheism alone isn't going to solve all the problems--that's true. However, I think atheism can solve SOME problems. |
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IandonlyI
Joined: 26 Aug 2006
Posts: 2884
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| Posted: Wed Dec 10, 2008 1:32 am Post subject: |
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| sword_of_truth wrote: |
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| We do now, athiesm, and that is exactly the purpose of this thread. I am not religious head complainign about athiest as in my religion is attacked. The purpose of the thread is the intolerance is also the same with athiests. So the thing is as far as problems of the world are concerned that were caused by religino will not be solved by athiesm. Athiesm has a tendency to be same intolerance of other beliefs and this thread and the article from CNN is the proof. |
Nope, sorry, that's not very much evidence. I said I'm okay with people being Christian, unless their Christianity is causing problems. I merely disagree with them.
| Quote: |
| If athiesm was any better they would not do anythign that would offend religion. So what is the difference between both? None, Nada. So athiesm fails on one of the counts. Peiod. |
Well, if you think something is wrong, you are going to offend people. If I don't like somebody telling their kids that the world is 6000 years old, they are going to get offended. But it's not necessarilty intolerant to tell them, no, the world isn't 6000 years old, it's 4.5 billion years old, and here's why. Religious ideas are just ideas. Just the fact that they are religious shouldn't make them automatically immune to criticism. I don't like people having sex with 9 year olds. If muslims are offended by that, tough. Protesting something that is wrong isn't intolerance. What's the big deal, unless there is physical violence?
People who can't take criticism are sissies.
I welcome criticism.
Objecting to criticism is not only not going to solve problems--it protects problems from being solved.
Atheism alone isn't going to solve all the problems--that's true. However, I think atheism can solve SOME problems. |
I see your logic, In that case, Muslims say that cross in British flag is offending to them and demand its removal is also perfectly fine. Muslims can say death to USA, UK and denmark is also fine as they were only stating their opinion but they got punished???
Awsome sir.
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If you cannot see god in all, how can you see god at all? |
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Plexus
Joined: 20 Jan 2007
Posts: 125
Location: Australia
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| Posted: Wed Dec 10, 2008 10:39 am Post subject: |
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Atheists like me are intolerant of religions, for me this is very very true. Though I perceive myself as a soft atheist, that is, I neither agree God exists nor say it doesn’t, for me there is no debate, it’s a silly proposition, it’s like someone coming to you and earnestly saying there is a fairy in the garden, now you just might be inclined to humour that person, be tolerant even though that person is being ridiculous, no harm done. But if that person goes on to tell you, if you don’t believe you are going to be punished as religionists do to non-believers, in the most intensely, deeply, strongly way that they do, then you might be selfish enough, narcistic enough as I am, to be intolerant.
Still, though disturbing you teach your children to forgo reason and logic, even try to bring creationism into science class as if its worthy of debate, we atheists have in my opinion, been far to lenient, a sort of ‘oh well, live and let live’ attitude.
But what now, with the Islamic religion having enough petro dollars to turn malignant we find a polarized emergence of 1. Fundamental Christianity who seem to think they have legitimacy when in fact they are our weakest link and 2. with the left wing of politics discrediting themselves a rise in strength of the far right.
The already fragile balance disturbed to the point of our most powerful country, the United States electing a good looking, charming unknown and though I don’t agree with Ali Sina’s diagnosis of him, what Ali says makes sense and could be true. Point is, he would never have been elected by calm intellectuals had not religion (Islam) unbalanced the already unbalanced stupid masses with fear.
Abrahamic religion has no place in society, none, zero, zilch because a percentage of you will go on to be good ones. When I say good ones I mean the doctrine will short circuit and over ride reason, logic and your humanity.
I dislike to be labeled an atheist, I am just a human being with all the human weaknesses, faults and emotions that I have to work on but without religion, that truly retrograde force.
Atheist intolerance, what a red herring, intolerant of the intolerant yes, intolerant is the reason we have progressed, intolerant of child sex, stoning, beheading, misogyny, wishing death on people because they don’t believe in God or your God, intolerant of people who willfully relinquish reason and logic. How can you debate with religious people, a lot of them should be certified insane. |
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Aksel, Ankersen
Joined: 03 Nov 2008
Posts: 272
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| Posted: Wed Dec 10, 2008 1:38 pm Post subject: |
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I think IandonlyI is quite right to say:
| Quote: |
| P.S. Before you comment please try to understand what someone is trying to say before you comment. As all of you failed to understand the point of this thread. |
As Plexus just keeps creating straw-man arguments and diversions. For instance:
| Plexus wrote: |
| ...even try to bring creationism into science class as if its worthy of debate, we atheists have in my opinion, been far to lenient... |
He is trying to draw an equivalence between belief in God and "creationism". A case can be made against "creationist" beliefs about life on earth, i.e. based on theory of natural selection/descent with modification (which is supported by fossil record, paleoclimatic zones and belts, biogeography and phylogenetics...) this might disprove some of the ideas people have about God, but does not touch on the concept of God. Science never claimed to support or disprove anything supernatural, which is simply beyond the scope of scientific study.
The point made by OP was:
| IandonlyI wrote: |
| Athiesm is no better than any other belief because eventually it ends up telling others what to do. |
And funnily enough Plexus does just that. To IandonlyI who has simply affirmed his belief in God he says:
| Plexus wrote: |
Maybe you have a child like response to the uncertainty of life and you need certainty so this BS gives you comfort but I say you are intellectually dishonest and a selfish coward...
You’ve corrupted belief by passing it off as the truth, you’ve made faith a dirty word and you despicably pass this meme to any vulnerable around you, including your children, you are not forgiven...
...you teach your children to forgo reason and logic...
...How can you debate with religious people, a lot of them should be certified insane. |
You may talk of memes, but you are infected with these "viruses" of the mind more than you know. It's evident in your claim to exclusivity that is the hallmark of evangelistic Richard Dawkins brand atheism. The claim to somehow be braver, better or smarter because you live without religion itself rather than any of the specifically bad teachings of a religion is simply muddled.
_________________
"your pit of the hell fire will be reserved for you, and on that day, myself and your parents will be laughing at you, It's Showtime"
-Ahmed Bahgat to a schoolgirl who left Islam |
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charleslemartel
Joined: 29 Nov 2007
Posts: 1071
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| Posted: Wed Dec 10, 2008 4:45 pm Post subject: |
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| IandonlyI wrote: |
I dont think Mahavira was athiest, where did you read that? About Buddha, it is a big lie that he was a athiest, Buddhism does not believe in God but neighter do they denounce God. Buddha just picked a path where you take personal responsibility and the rest follows. You do your thing and the rest follows. But anyway, I am not going to argue about Buddha but I really doubt Mahavira was athiest. |
It is a fact that both Buddha and Mahavira were atheists in that they did not believe in a supreme, creator God.
| IandonlyI wrote: |
| Doyou know that sometime just letting go of things and giving it to God(even if God does not exist) to handle is fixes many problems. Do you realize that? Do you know the power of letting go? I dont know, maybe I am not explaining it right but God has its purpose in life of many people. |
Both Buddhism and Jainism teach "letting go" more or less. I know the power of letting go, and it is almost an impossible task compared to struggling against the tide of time and circumstances. I know that one should be a watcher and not doer. But this "letting go" or "watching" (witnessing) does not need belief in any God. Think about it.
| IandonlyI wrote: |
| Maybe God is invention of miserable mind but pay attention to the word miserable, yes even if the miserable mind found God It solved his problems, atleast it worked for him. So what is wrong with God. |
There is only one thing wrong with this approach; it is not correct, even if it works, as belief in God is simply not required for whatever you want to achieve in life.
| IandonlyI wrote: |
| My personal experience, totally honestly, is that everytime I have let God handle things for me they have worked out and this is everytime as long as I was doing the right thing!!! |
I do not doubt your own experiences. But most probably you have not read about the incident in the life of Ramakrishna when he met Totapuri. Please read about it, it is an enlightening story.
| IandonlyI wrote: |
| Now if we want to talk about religion, it is a different matter. Yes we can find million different mistakes in religion and religion no doubt is a invention of human mind and many of the things in religion are good and many bad. yes religion have caused enough problems in the world but at same time we dont know how many problems it has solved untill there is a totally different set of belief. |
You are very right.
| IandonlyI wrote: |
| We do now, athiesm, and that is exactly the purpose of this thread. I am not religious head complainign about athiest as in my religion is attacked. The purpose of the thread is the intolerance is also the same with athiests. So the thing is as far as problems of the world are concerned that were caused by religino will not be solved by athiesm. Athiesm has a tendency to be same intolerance of other beliefs and this thread and the article from CNN is the proof. |
Yes, I agree with you. Actually, the belief that "I am right and others are wrong" causes one to become intolerant of others. If you ask about me, I would say that I prefer to be an agnostic. How do I know if Jesus was right when he claimed that there was God? Similarly, how do I know if Buddha or Mahavira was right when he said that there was no God?
| IandonlyI wrote: |
| If athiesm was any better they would not do anythign that would offend religion. So what is the difference between both? None, Nada. So athiesm fails on one of the counts. Peiod. |
It is almost impossible to live or interact in a way so as not to offend someone or the other.
| IandonlyI wrote: |
| P.S. Before you comment please try to understand what someone is trying to say before you comment. As all of you failed to understand the point of this thread. |
Everyone's understanding is limited, including mine. Please do not put such conditions for responding to your posts; people may choose not to comment at all for the fear of being branded as having faulty or limited understanding 
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Fear is the most powerful emotional tool, it can turn off the areas of the brain responsible for rational thought.
Is that why Muslims can't be rational? |
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TheYoungReservist
Joined: 26 Jul 2006
Posts: 2384
Location: Northern Israel
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| Posted: Wed Dec 10, 2008 6:19 pm Post subject: |
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IandonlyI wrote:
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| if there is God and I am disbeliever I might not be punished but I would lose lots of rewards. |
In my opinion whether a being/process/spirit or something which initiated the beginning of our universe exists or not there is certainly no such thing as a personal god.
A personal god is a thing humans have created in their imagination.
In the early days a human might have thanked a piece of stone and they certainly never heard of Allah/YHWH or Jesus and lived just fine,otherwise we wouldn't have been here today.
The Greeks/Romans/Persians etc did not believe in one god but in many and they have built huge empires which lasted for centuries.
And chimpanzees and gorillas from whom we differ by only a few chromosomes do not pray to any gods and continue to live just fine.
The gods described in religious texts all have too many human like traits,they are jealous,they demand worship for some reason,they can get angry and vengeful.
Why would a god which created the entire huge universe concentrate himself on a tiny unimportant planet somewhere within it?How would he be able to read all of our thoughts and desires and why would he care?we are nothing but another animal species.
Finally if such a god would have wanted to make all people truly to believe in his existence I believe he would have long ago manifested himself in public instead of just doing it in front of "selected individuals".
My personal theory is that we are nothing but someone elses lab experiment somewhere.
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If Israel laid down it’s weapons, Israel would cease to exist.” |
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