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abdul-rahman
Joined: 29 Nov 2008
Posts: 25
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 Posted: Sun Nov 30, 2008 4:53 am Post subject: Some evolution theory questions? |
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You know I hear from evolutionist that their are million of fossils that proves evolution but they never give the link from where they got the information from. You know you can find thousands of dinosaurs skeletons and fossils that supposely died millions of years ago according to evolutionist but not a single fossil face or a a some what complete skeleton that shows human evoled from a common ancestor of primaes (apes, etc) Therefore please evolutionist can you please show me the link where the million or even thousand of fossil that proves evolution is and true then you got a new believer!\
also, the link provided inside this youtube clip doesn't work (the tinyurl one at the end of the clip) and the url provided on the page doesn't answer the question. its about a question answered to an richard dawkins but he couldn't answer it so the poster made the video to answer the question posted in the clip but the link doesn't work. So please give me the answer even with a link if you have the answer to it. Here is the clip link:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-uz1CiDDIq4&feature=related |
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comet4
Joined: 26 Apr 2008
Posts: 6
Location: Australia
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| Posted: Sun Nov 30, 2008 5:42 am Post subject: |
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http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/comdesc/hominids.html
And about the video, the question makes no sense really.
"Can you give an example of a genetic mutation or an evolutionary process which can be seen to increase the information in the genome?"
How do you exactly measure the "amount of information" in the genome? Some genes appear to be doing nothing, does it mean they have no information? Obviously not. Turn some on and turn some off, you'll most likely see some overall changes. |
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R_Nelson
Joined: 17 Feb 2004
Posts: 582
Location: West of the North Pole
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| Posted: Sun Nov 30, 2008 7:19 am Post subject: |
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| abdul-rahman wrote: |
the link provided inside this youtube clip doesn't work (the tinyurl one at the end of the clip) and the url provided on the page doesn't answer the question. its about a question answered to an richard dawkins but he couldn't answer it so the poster made the video to answer the question posted in the clip but the link doesn't work. So please give me the answer even with a link if you have the answer to it. Here is the clip link:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-uz1CiDDIq4&feature=related |
The tinyurl should have pointed to this link in which Dawkins answers the question.
_________________
"Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities." - Voltaire
There is no god "Allah", and Mohammed was insane.
There is no god "Allah", and Mohammed was insane.
There is no god "Allah", and Mohammed was insane. |
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abdul-rahman
Joined: 29 Nov 2008
Posts: 25
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| Posted: Sun Nov 30, 2008 2:19 pm Post subject: |
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| comet4 wrote: |
http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/comdesc/hominids.html
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thats all you got for fossils! They look basically like any apes, chimpanzees, gorilla we have today! to me that is a deception.
anyway, i am not here to point fault here for to get the answer to my questions. therefore, can you also show me a site that has a collection of other fossils that shows other evolution from one animal to another (ex: fish to first land animals, animal to first bird). thanks in advance! |
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Always_Faithful
Joined: 22 Jan 2006
Posts: 2024
Location: Location: Location
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| Posted: Sun Nov 30, 2008 2:26 pm Post subject: |
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| abdul-rahman wrote: |
| comet4 wrote: |
http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/comdesc/hominids.html
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thats all you got for fossils! They look basically like any apes, chimpanzees, gorilla we have today! to me that is a deception. |
"They look basically like apes" is a very unscientific way to approach a very scientific issue. You're mocking the expertise of a multitude of highly specialised and dedicated scientists who all argue that these are valid transitions, based on their careful analysis of the morphologies; based on your fleeting, and utterly inexpert glance of some pictures. How do you not feel ashamed of such crass incredulity?
_________________
A destructive man helps to naturally select a better society; an ignorant man does nothing but drag society down: Innocence is worse than evil.
Last edited by Always_Faithful on Sun Nov 30, 2008 2:37 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Always_Faithful
Joined: 22 Jan 2006
Posts: 2024
Location: Location: Location
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| Posted: Sun Nov 30, 2008 2:35 pm Post subject: Re: Some evolution theory questions? |
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| abdul-rahman wrote: |
also, the link provided inside this youtube clip doesn't work (the tinyurl one at the end of the clip) and the url provided on the page doesn't answer the question. its about a question answered to an richard dawkins but he couldn't answer it so the poster made the video to answer the question posted in the clip but the link doesn't work. So please give me the answer even with a link if you have the answer to it. Here is the clip link:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-uz1CiDDIq4&feature=related |
It was a stupid question to be answering, and one I could have easily dismissed as a first year undergraduate. If 'information' means genetic material, then something as simple as gene duplication, or even DNA replication, is an example; if you mean coding for new phenotypic effect, then all manner of mutations can do so; if you mean on a large-scale level, then genome duplication is a dramatic example. It's laughably simple genetics.
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A destructive man helps to naturally select a better society; an ignorant man does nothing but drag society down: Innocence is worse than evil. |
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crazy canuck
Joined: 20 Mar 2004
Posts: 6391
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| Posted: Sun Nov 30, 2008 6:54 pm Post subject: Re: Some evolution theory questions? |
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| abdul-rahman wrote: |
You know I hear from evolutionist that their are million of fossils that proves evolution but they never give the link from where they got the information from. You know you can find thousands of dinosaurs skeletons and fossils that supposely died millions of years ago according to evolutionist but not a single fossil face or a a some what complete skeleton that shows human evoled from a common ancestor of primaes (apes, etc) Therefore please evolutionist can you please show me the link where the million or even thousand of fossil that proves evolution is and true then you got a new believer!\
also, the link provided inside this youtube clip doesn't work (the tinyurl one at the end of the clip) and the url provided on the page doesn't answer the question. its about a question answered to an richard dawkins but he couldn't answer it so the poster made the video to answer the question posted in the clip but the link doesn't work. So please give me the answer even with a link if you have the answer to it. Here is the clip link:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-uz1CiDDIq4&feature=related |
Dear Abdulrehman,
Fossils does not prove theory of evolution.
Fossil records, change in morphology of animals, their extinctions and again starting over with new life forms can be best explained by theory of evolution.
Or it can be alternatively explained by god intervening and creating new kind of life form at regular intterval and destroying organisms he got pissed off with.
Take your pick.
Darwin conceived his idea of evolution not from fossil record but by observing evolution of species of some finches on group of islands. Later he will study all kind of organisms all over the world. Darwi was skeptic about ebvolution when he first looked at Cambrian explosion.
There are other filed of study like virology, bacteriology, propagation of disease, vestigial organs etc. can be best explained by theory of natural selection. Alternate explanation is god changes bacteria every fe minutes to make us sick.
C.C. |
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sword_of_truth
Joined: 12 Oct 2008
Posts: 255
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| Posted: Sun Nov 30, 2008 10:18 pm Post subject: |
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Fossils are not the only evidence. DNA evidence is perhaps stronger.
Regarding the authenticity of the transitional fossils from human to ape: The DNA of Neanderthals was checked and does not match human DNA or that of any modern primate.
Neanderthals were not our direct ancestors, but they were one branch of the tree.
This means that the theory of evolution made a prophecy, as it were: if the theory is correct, then if we are lucky, we will find some fossils between ape and man.
The prophecy was fulfilled. Was this coincidence?
Anyone who questions these claims must make a very careful assessment of the fossil and DNA evidence.
For more on the DNA evidence, you can watch cdk007's brilliant series of videos, particularly, this one:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TUxLR9hdorI&feature=related
As far as the Dawkins clip, that is a fraud. The videos were doctored.
An example of new information coming from natural selection and mutation is the evolution of nylonase in bacteria. The bacteria evolved the ability to digest nylon. This was directly observed. Creationists would claim that the genetic information was already there or that God did it, but I am sure that a thorough investigation of the facts would prove that wrong.
Of course, whatever happens, God could be doing it, even if it's strictly following the laws of physics. However, what we are talking about here is God violating the laws of physics to create information. There's no evidence of that happening. |
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THHuxley_redux
Joined: 15 Jun 2008
Posts: 1248
Location: Denver, CO
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| Posted: Sun Nov 30, 2008 11:14 pm Post subject: Re: Some evolution theory questions? |
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| abdul-rahman wrote: |
| You know I hear from evolutionist that their are million of fossils that proves evolution but they never give the link from where they got the information from. You know you can find thousands of dinosaurs skeletons and fossils that supposely died millions of years ago according to evolutionist but not a single fossil face or a a some what complete skeleton that shows human evoled from a common ancestor of primaes (apes, etc) Therefore please evolutionist can you please show me the link where the million or even thousand of fossil that proves evolution is and true then you got a new believer! |
You should probably start with Kathleen Hunt's still excellent "Transitional Fossils FAQ." It is more than ten years old, but still a fabulous resource. It should keep you busy for hours. Then if you have follow up questions, I'll be happy to help.
http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/faq-transitional.html
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Nullius In Verba |
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Yohan
Joined: 07 Mar 2004
Posts: 7684
Location: USA
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| Posted: Sun Nov 30, 2008 11:26 pm Post subject: Re: Some evolution theory questions? |
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| abdul-rahman wrote: |
You know I hear from evolutionist that their are million of fossils that proves evolution but they never give the link from where they got the information from. You know you can find thousands of dinosaurs skeletons and fossils that supposely died millions of years ago according to evolutionist but not a single fossil face or a a some what complete skeleton that shows human evoled from a common ancestor of primaes (apes, etc) Therefore please evolutionist can you please show me the link where the million or even thousand of fossil that proves evolution is and true then you got a new believer!\
also, the link provided inside this youtube clip doesn't work (the tinyurl one at the end of the clip) and the url provided on the page doesn't answer the question. its about a question answered to an richard dawkins but he couldn't answer it so the poster made the video to answer the question posted in the clip but the link doesn't work. So please give me the answer even with a link if you have the answer to it. Here is the clip link:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-uz1CiDDIq4&feature=related |
Evolution is a concept that is easy to grab for a person attuned to science and rational thinking. There is proof for all the questions you have asked. Just read the proper books. At the same time, Evolution is a concept impossible to grab for a person who blindly trusts religious texts and believes in the sermons of idiot Mullas or low brained evangelical christian preachers. No matter what amount of proof is provided they just can't believe in it. But they have no problems in believing their God created it all. One is more successful in teaching apes to count than making these people believe in evolution. They have too much invested in God, and won't risk it for anything!
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"An unexamined life is not worth living" - by Socrates |
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THHuxley_redux
Joined: 15 Jun 2008
Posts: 1248
Location: Denver, CO
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| Posted: Sun Nov 30, 2008 11:32 pm Post subject: |
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| comet4 wrote: |
| "Can you give an example of a genetic mutation or an evolutionary process which can be seen to increase the information in the genome?" |
Actually... I'll take this one on directly.
The most powerful example would be the mutation called a "gene duplication." It is a replication error in which a lengthy strand of DNA accidentally gets copied twice into a new chromosome rather than just once. Most of the time this happens, the error does not manage to capture an entire gene, but only fragments. On some occasions, though, an entire gene gets duplicated just by chance.
Now... immediately after such a mutation you have rather objectively increased the amount of information in the genome. If the original solitary gene had an arbitrary value of 1, you now have a genome which, all other things being equal, is now "1 more" than the original, nonmutated genome.
But wait (I hear you say)... it's just another copy of the same information.
Not for long.
When gene's duplicate like this, evolution has been handed an opportunity. You see, when there was only one original copy of the gene, that gene's job would already be dedicated and defined. As long as the job didn't change, natural selection would tend to "conserve" its gene with no change. But now that there are two copies, one copy can remain conservative while the other can be taken in any direction natural selection drives it. Let me give you a real example.
Most mammals have bicolor vision rather than full tricolor vision. This is because color vision depends on proteins called "opsins," and each version of opsin can be sensitive to only one wavelength of light. Animals with bicolor vision have two different versions of opsin, and they are coded for by two different genes.
But right about the time that the old world monkeys and new world monkeys split from each other, there was a mutation among the old world monkeys that duplicated one of those opsin genes. We know it was a duplication because... remember when I said only fragments of genes usually get duplicated? In this case, one whole opsin gene was duplicated, but also fragments of "junk DNA" on either side of it. So we can tell exactly which of the two opsin genes was duplicated because we can match the "junk DNA" to one of the original genes, but not the other.
Once these monkeys had three opsin genes, the first two could be conserved while the new third gene could be selected to become sensitive to a different, third wavelength of light creating full tricolor vision. This is the same mutation inherited by all old world monkeys, apes and humans.
There is even more to this story... such as the fact that tricolor vision caused us to lose our previously great sense of smell... but that's another story for another time.
For now, there you have a direct example of "a genetic mutation or an evolutionary process which can be seen to increase the information in the genome."
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Nullius In Verba |
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THHuxley_redux
Joined: 15 Jun 2008
Posts: 1248
Location: Denver, CO
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| Posted: Sun Nov 30, 2008 11:35 pm Post subject: |
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| abdul-rahman wrote: |
| thats all you got for fossils! They look basically like any apes, chimpanzees, gorilla we have today! to me that is a deception. |
Actually, no.
That is you either not looking very closely, or not knowing what to look for. Most of these fossils look nothing like any apes, chimpanzees or gorillas we have today... and nobody familiar with modern apes would confuse them.
| abdul-rahman wrote: |
| anyway, i am not here to point fault here for to get the answer to my questions. therefore, can you also show me a site that has a collection of other fossils that shows other evolution from one animal to another (ex: fish to first land animals, animal to first bird). thanks in advance! |
Already provided in my previous post.
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abdul-rahman
Joined: 29 Nov 2008
Posts: 25
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| Posted: Mon Dec 01, 2008 2:31 am Post subject: |
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the thing about fossils i was talking about was actual skeleton proof that that their was transaction from one species from another through evolution but i don't see that from your link. all it is doing is theorizing with no actual data or fossils to back it up. Is that the best you have got? I maybe asking for too much but theorizing with out any actual data or hard evidence is hardly any proof.
anyway, what i want to know is why are you so strict on defending evolution? what do you get out of it? Since to you this life is by chance and we live only once to die forever and ever. this is hardly the teaching i want to teach my children as it will truely frighten them if they were able to understand what it means.
and how do evolution explain near death experiences of over millions of individual who almost share the same experience coincidently. Is that just B.S. or the brain playing tricks on them even though they were out of their bodies (trust me i read a lot on NDE and it gives more proof that their is life after this then what evoluton claim we are just the body)? you can read it all here: http://www.near-death.com/ |
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Ex-muslimah
Joined: 19 Jul 2006
Posts: 909
Location: Scotland somewhere
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| Posted: Mon Dec 01, 2008 3:32 am Post subject: |
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You can extract DNA from fossils and remains through the use of PCR
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The Borg is si-fi's Islam. The "Collective" is the Ummah and they assimilate the kaffir.
*http://www.karmanirvana.org.uk/* - For if you are in a forced marriage in the UK |
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crazy canuck
Joined: 20 Mar 2004
Posts: 6391
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| Posted: Mon Dec 01, 2008 3:42 am Post subject: |
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| Ex-muslimah wrote: |
| You can extract DNA from fossils and remains through the use of PCR |
You can extract DNA fossils and remais.
DNA material obtain from fossils from teeth, bone marrow and other parts is often deteriorated and cant be sequenced properly to compare with living relatives of the fossil.Missing parts are often extrapolated comparig the living one.
Even DNA from wooly mammoth preserved in frozen tundra are not found intact. Older the fossil its lot more deteriorated. |
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